Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tuğçe Melis Demir

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 18:54, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tuğçe Melis Demir

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Fails WP:NHOCKEY, contested prod. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:08, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 23:00, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 23:00, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 23:00, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 23:00, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - meets guideline 1 and 2 of WP:Hockey, notable female athelete. Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 23:04, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please re-read WP:NHOCKEY, as you have clearly misread it. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:06, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I read through the sources that I could find and thought that this player did play at the highest level of competition in her country. Of course I take your word for her status since you seem a lot more familiar with hockey than I am. Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 16:54, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Barbara (WVS): Sportsfan should have been more clear in their response, but the point was NHOCKEY has never used in a country as part of the guideline. It has always been in the world (either implied or directly stated) as ice hockey is not equally covered in every country like football. Yosemiter (talk) 17:04, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying that if an athlete is playing at the highest level in their own country, but is not a global competitor, then they are not notable enough? I do page patrolling some times of new articles. My impression was that if any soccer player's foot touched a soccer ball even once in an amateur game, that earned them notability and a WP article. So it isn't the same for hockey? Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 17:13, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Barbara (WVS): Sort of correct per WP:NFOOTY, if a player in the top level in their country (which in most cases are fully-professional) then they are considered notable per that SNG. But ice hockey is nowhere near soccer/football in world popularity and hence don't get nearly the same media coverage, even if said country even has an IIHF recognized hockey team (which many don't). If there were to be an in a country statement on NHOCKEY, that would lead to club team players in Egypt and recreational players in Panama having "notability", which obviously would be incorrect. All Sports Notability Guidelines should imply that the athlete that passes the guideline is 99% likely to be able to the General Notability Guidelines. Yosemiter (talk) 17:22, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yosemiter's clarifications aside, if you genuinely read NHOCKEY, you would have seen that it not only is a different SNG than NFOOTY, but that its provisions are entirely different. The logical (if farcical) conclusion to "the top players in any one nation-state are automatically notable" is that beer leaguers in Peru or San Marino are notable by definition, a bit of silliness to which the hockey WikiProject thankfully avoids. Ravenswing 14:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Absolutely does not meet WP:NHOCKEY guidelines, does not play at the top level internationally and plays in an amateur league when there are professional options available for women players. Besides that GNG is not met as all citations found are only passing mentions or databases.18abruce (talk) 23:43, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: After trying to read the sources (most of which were broken or dead), searching for more, and running them through rough translators, I am not seeing anything outside of the WP:ROUTINE mentions and stats pages. This basically only proves that she is a real person who has played hockey but does not meet the WP:GNG standards for significant coverage. Absolutely does not meet WP:GNG as women's leagues have not established any presumed notability for its players based on media coverage. In order for a women to meet the SNG, she must have played for the top division in the IIHF world championships or the Olympics (which typically overlap rosters anyways).
Note: since the time that @Barbara (WVS): listed their keep vote, NHOCKEY has been further clarified to explicitly list all leagues in the SNG itself since some found it to be confusing (i.e. they would see "top professional league" and read "top professional league in a country" despite this never being part of the criteria). Yosemiter (talk) 19:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Another in a very long string of articles about NN female Turkish hockey players, and at least we've put to rest the inane notion that they possibly satisfy any element of NHOCKEY, which they do not. No evidence the subject meets the GNG. Ravenswing 14:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Barbara (WVS) As WP:NHOCKEY doesn't include women's leagues, it's not relevant here. WP:GNG is a better measure (and supersedes NHOCKEY anyhow). Hmlarson (talk) 05:51, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it looks like she's on Survivor in Turkey per a US-based Google search ref, ref (just two of several different news items in Turkish). Perhaps better references can be found, the broken ones fixed with archive links, and/or a Turkish language expert coud help to improve and keep the article per WP:ATD. Hmlarson (talk) 05:59, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to redirect the article to Survivor Turkey, by all means; in no national edition of Survivor, of course, are contestants presumptively notable. Ravenswing 07:57, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.