Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Susie Päivärinta

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Michig (talk) 06:34, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Susie Päivärinta

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Musician who doesn't appear to have any relevance on her own, but only as part of the duo Lili & Susie. ×º°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια×º°”˜`”°º× 00:53, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 03:10, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 05:11, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Lili & Susie and merge whatever content is useful and not already in the target article. (You could probably have done so without taking it to AFD.) --Hegvald (talk) 07:38, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Lili & Susie. As with Lili Päivärinta's nomination, not independently notable but the duo (as a duo) is, so redirect there. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 18:00, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:41, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect (speedy?) to Lili & Susie due to individual non-notability, a classic example of a subject that should be redirected. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:44, 24 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep According to WP:BEFORE, you have a responsibility as the nominator to do a quick Google Search and see if the topic is notable, and the article just needs improvement. When that's the case, you can simply add a tag such as {{notability}} to the page. Nominating articles for deletion is not a way to get people to clean up articles. I feel like even a preliminary search hasn't been done here because if you search for her name on Google News you can see there are several hits about her as an individual and she regularly performs and makes appearances as an individual. As a duo, they had several hit songs that made it to top 5 and top 10 of the Swedish music charts. Additionally, Päivärinta helped write Baby Doll by the bad Top Cats, which was selected for Melodifestivalen 2012 and reach 20 on the Swedish national radio chart. Many songs she's written have competed in Melodifestivalen and Eurovision. I have improved her article. According to WP:GNG she passes due to significant coverage in secondary sources over the course of decades. According to WP:ANYBIO she passes due to "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times." She passes WP:ENTERTAINER for "Has a large fan base or a significant 'cult' following." She passes WP:MUSIC for "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself" and "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart" and "Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition" (Baby Doll won #3 at Melodifestivalen 2012) and "Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network." Lonehexagon (talk) 00:57, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep -Per great improvements made today. per Lonehexagons correct rationale. WP:BEFORE is ignored here. This singer has for example written charting songs, appeared in television shows as a lead etc. AfD is not a clean-up service. Covers WP:MUSIC as well. BabbaQ (talk) 09:04, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging - @Coolabahapple:,@TheSandDoctor: and @Hegvald: now that the article has been improved.BabbaQ (talk) 09:10, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll leave WP:BEFORE to those who can speak Swedish. It's still extremely hard to find sources about her that aren't mostly about Lili & Susie anyway, that's why a redirect didn't sound wrong as an option. (-: ×º°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια×º°”˜`”°º× 21:29, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You still missing the point. Neither she or Lili are only known for Lili & Susie both have done other ventures. All sourced and presented now in the articles.BabbaQ (talk) 01:57, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well... Lili is only known for hosting a show that doesn't have a Wikipedia article. The rest of the article reports personal life/gossip information. Is the show even notable? ×º°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια×º°”˜`”°º× 21:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, Swedish sources indicating notability are just as valid as English-language sources.--Ipigott (talk) 10:42, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per Lonehexagon. Whereas her main claim to fame is being part of the aforementioned duo, there's also other information, relevant mainly in an article about her rather than the band, that's relevant to the general public. /Julle (talk) 15:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing admin - I pinged the three editors who !voted before the improvements of the article. No one have decided to re-evaluate or comment on the improved article. BabbaQ (talk) 00:44, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment my apologies for the delay in my response, and I do thank you for the ping BabbaQ. As is stated in WP:MUSICBIO, "Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band". My major concern is the lack of reliable and credible sources. I still feel that there is not enough coverage within the article (or present elsewhere). Most of the citations are not in depth or anything individual (or are interviews, which themselves do not contribute to notability).

Before I go into the references in the article, I will point out that I used Google Chrome's page translation feature to assess the contents as I do not speak/read Swedish. (Not that I think that that would influence anything, just stating for those curious and just in case there was a translation error or something)

The first reference is about the group as a collective, not Susie as an individual (aftonbladet is also a tabloid)
The second is a chart listing demonstrating that the group Lili & Susie are notable per WP:BAND criterion #2
The third proves that Susie is a part of Lili & Susie, but does not demonstrate individual notability per the above
The fourth demonstrates that the group Lili & Susie are notable per WP:BAND criterion #2, not her as an individual
The fifth is a tabloid interview and about the group, not demonstrating the individual notability of Susie
The sixth is an interview with Susie about the collective/group.
The seventh is an interview with the two of them about a music video by the collective
The eigth is a biography of the duo, it does not prove any independent notability for Susie.
The ninth is also in Lili's article and is about the two of them as (based on language in article and the FB page being referred to as "their" in the plural form) a collective
The tenth is a tabloid article about how much they love Susie in a music video for Lili & Susie (duo)
The eleventh is a tabloid interview with Susie, not demonstrating individual notability.

As I stated at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lili Päivärinta, if there are (reliable) sources out there that I may have missed (a possibility as we are all human) that help prove individual/independent notability and they are brought forward, I will happily reconsider and strike my redirect !vote in favour of a different one. I hope that this helps to explain my concerns. I thank you again for the ping. --TheSandDoctor ^Talk 04:30, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I want to point out that medialike Expressen, Aftonbladet are the leading newspapers in Sweden and not tabloids read only for celeb gossip. I do think there are something lost in translation here. BabbaQ (talk) 05:26, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I also want to point out that you seem to ignore the fact that all sources do confirm what is stated about the individual concerning songwriting, singing, and television appearances. But that is up to you. I think that there are some "lost in translation" and "other country, I don't know" going on here. Swedish editors with knowledge about here have all !voted Keep. Anyway thanks for your input. BabbaQ (talk) 05:42, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep, per Lonehexagon. She is also a song writer for the band... but wrote the songs. Adville (talk) 09:25, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, Talented songwriter with many hits is totally worthy of inclusion. Davidgoodheart (talk) 09:57, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as has composed hit songs apart from the duo so passes WP:COMPOSER on her own right so qualifies for a standalone article and there are enough sources to verify passing WP:COMPOSER Atlantic306 (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.