Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sandy Baltimore

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After extended time for discussion, there is a clear absence of consensus to delete, and a reasonable argument that sources meet WP:GNG. BD2412 T 03:50, 3 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sandy Baltimore

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fails WP:NFOOTY Mightytotems (talk) 20:20, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Mightytotems (talk) 20:20, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Mightytotems (talk) 20:20, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:31, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 20:51, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 21:00, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 09:12, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NFOOTY failure. Number 5 7 13:17, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete a non-notable footballer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:39, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Does not meet WP:GNG, Alex-h (talk) 11:12, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP Google.fr is a start (not google.com or google.co.uk) for additional references and article expansion. Baltimore plays in top-division french league at age 18, played in UEFA Women's Champions League also at 18 years of age, and WP:GNG met. Improve, don't delete per WP:ATD. Hmlarson (talk) 21:46, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Article about semi-pro footballer which appears to meet the GNG. Baltimore is a youth international who appears regularly for one of the top French D1 clubs, and gets significant coverage in Le Parisien and other French-language sites. I've added a few easily-searchable online sources to the article, but there are others behind paywalls. Jogurney (talk) 23:08, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. She plays in the top-tier league in France. (She has quite a bit of coverage on that basis, too.) That NFOOTY argues for keeping tens of thousands of articles on one-game male players who could not pass GNG in a million years but tries to suggest that top-tier women players aren't notable isn't a problem with the articles or the topics, it's a problem with Wikipedia:WikiProject Football that needs correcting urgently. The Drover's Wife (talk) 20:22, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She plays in a top tier league (Division 1 Féminine). Meets WP:NFOOTY. End of story. And before anyone comes at me with a claim that most female leagues aren't included, that's because of a major failing of every Wikiproject Football member on every level, whose biases on not documenting women's football is atrocious. Silverseren^C 05:21, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The Frauen-Bundesliga is included at the list of leagues, but is in the list of top-tier leagues that are not fully-professional, so she does not meet WP:NFOOTY. Number 5 7 13:02, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - WP:GNG is met here (Per Jogurney, although I'm pretty sure Paris SG players would be full time professionals) While N:FOOTY is nonsense, to put it mildly. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 18:00, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The wording in the keep votes is weak. Editors are reminded that AfD is for discussion of specific sources in an article. For future discussion, please stick to the sources in the article and any others you find. There looks to me to be at least two sources I the article that indicate GNG but wider discussion is necessary.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fenix down (talk) 20:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - here is my summary of the online coverage I've found:
- Le Parisien provides in-depth coverage such as [1] which describes her rise into the PSG first team and [2] which covers her exploits at the 2018 FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup. It also provides less substantive coverage like [3] which gives a brief profile.
- L'Équipe provides similar less substantive coverage such as [4].
- La Voix du Nord (daily) doesn't provide in-depth coverage, just stuff like [5] which mentions she is likely to get a look from national team manager Diacre.
- Coeursdefoot.fr doesn't provide in-depth coverage, just stuff like [6] and [7].Jogurney (talk) 21:34, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - meets WP:GNG per table below. Note that the article does not need to pass NFOOTY, because it already passes GNG. --MrClog (talk) 22:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment table
Source	Independent?	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/ile-de-france/d-1-feminine-sandy-baltimore-la-nouvelle-pepite-du-psg-23-04-2018-7679217.php	Owned by LVMH, no apparent COI.	Baltimore is the subject of the article.	✔ Yes
http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/football/psg/coupe-du-monde-u20-la-bleuette-sandy-baltimore-parisienne-tout-terrain-20-08-2018-7858080.php	Per above.	Baltimore is the subject of the article.	✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Delete fails WP:NFOOTY, a bit controversial with its WP:GNG standards. dibbydib Ping me!^💬/_✏ 23:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete She fails WP:NFOOTY and also fails WP:GNG because the Le Parisien articles are local coverage for a PSG player. Dougal18 (talk) 08:13, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Le Parisien is a regional, not a local, newspaper. And while GNG doesn't tell us whether local and/or regional sources are significant, the SNG for organisations does say regional sources are significant, so I'm not sure why it would be different here. (In fact, it's the second largest regional newspaper of France.) --MrClog (talk) 08:28, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She plays in the top-tier league in France. (She has tons of coverage on that basis, too.) That NFOOTY argues for keeping tens of thousands of articles on one-game male players who could not pass GNG in a million years but tries to suggest that top-tier women players aren't notable isn't a problem with the articles or the topics, it's a problem with Wikipedia:WikiProject Football that needs correcting urgently. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 13:58, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I don't buy the argument that Baltimore isn't a professional footballer. According to Bloomberg, PSG Féminine pays its players 10,000 Euros per month on average. With a nine-month season, that amounts to an annual salary of 90,000 Euros. That sounds like a decent amount of money to me. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:54, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per MrClog. I second KingSkyLord's broader observations. Mdaniels5757 (talk) 23:33, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.