Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kumaar

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 22:38, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kumaar

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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN. Looking at the listed films, I cannot see where he is mentioned on some and the others I do find him in are not supported by the sources used. A WP:BEFORE finds no significant coverage. There is also some FAKEREFerences used such as those for the awards. The one he apparently won does NOT show the award won, only lists his name as a nomination. CNMall41 (talk) 02:17, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and India. CNMall41 (talk) 02:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. He is the lyricist of many songs and found some articles (reliable like Gaana, some aren't) [1] [2] [3]. Add citation needed to the award in question. DareshMohan (talk) 02:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I cannot find a reference to support the award so a citation needed tag would not suffice. The other references are not reliable. The first is a redaction of what was posted on Instagram, the second is WP:NEWSORGINDIA, and the third is all quotes from the subject (it also shows a byline but posted by Odisha Diary Bureau which indicates it could be a paid placement - not assuming it is but not the strongest of sources). --CNMall41 (talk) 18:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Punjab-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:31, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:39, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete:It is evident that the subject does not adhere to the WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC criteria. From my research, only have some routine coverage and the majority of sources are not good enough. Furthermore, some of the few news stories available from internet have no bylines which means that they are mostly paid. 111.92.70.85 (talk) 13:23, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What evidence do you have to support your claim? The sources found online contradict your statement. Could you please clarify your position?; — MimsMENTOR ^talk 10:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: It is surprising that the subject is noted as not passing WP:NMUSICIAN, as reliable sources can be found online to meet the criteria for WP:BIO and WP:GNG. However, the subject is more commonly known as "Kumaar" rather than the original name "Rakesh Kumar Pal," which might be causing difficulty in finding reliable sources. The subject has made significant contributions to mainstream Bollywood, including three Filmfare Award nominations (2017, 2019, and 2024) for lyricist work in the popular films Jawan, Sonu Ke Titu Ki Sweety, and Roy (film). Additionally, the subject has won awards at Zee Cine Awards 2024 and Mirchi Music Awards 2023, both of which are highly regarded platforms in India. Based on these accomplishments, a strong case can be made to retain the independent article.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 09:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that winning an award under C7 does not guarantee notability. The guideline says someone "may be notable," indicating that they are likely to have significant coverage. The links you provided just shows the name and the award, no other context. So yes, the nominations and award can be verified, but there is no significant coverage of the person which is still a requirement. Note the specific wording of WP:NMUSICIAN - " and no criterion listed in this page confers an exemption from having to reliably source the article just because passage of the criterion has been claimed."

CNMall41 (talk), I agree with your mentioning of the wording from WP:NMUSICIAN. However, it's important to note that the phrasing does not justify deleting the article simply because "significant coverage" hasn't been found yet, as opposed to the availability of "reliable sources." Additionally, an article doesn't need to meet 100% of the criteria to qualify as a stand-alone entry. The focus should be on adding more sources that provide significant coverage, as the notability guidelines are still met.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 18:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that we do not delete something in the absent of sources present on a page. However, if we have searched for sources an do not find significant coverage, then delete would be appropriate. There would be a difference between sources that exist but are not and the page and sources that do not exist. I have tried to find significant coverage and have been unable to locate.--CNMall41 (talk) 18:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here, I am providing references that demonstrate "significant coverage." While some of these sources may be questionable or weaker in terms of "reliability," they do fulfill the requirement for significant coverage. Please note, significant coverage means more than a brief mention, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the primary focus of the source material since the article already passes WP:NMUSICIAN and WP:GNG.

"I’m the best caller tune writer" - Kumaar
Lyricist Kumaar to bring back 'Ishq Tera Tadpave'
मदर्स डे:'बेबी डॉल' के गीतकार कुमार ने भास्कर के लिए लिखीं खास पंक्तियां - मां संसार बनाती है, मां संस्कार बनाती है - Hindi language
Lyricist Kumaar calls 'Pathaan' a 'blockbuster' as he poses with Shah Rukh Khan, Deepika Padukone and John Abraham at special screening - See photos
Lyricist Kumaar celeberates birthday with friends and relatives
Lyricist Kumaar confesses about why writers are compelled to fight for their rights
Eveyone Ask Me Hook Line Kya Hai Says Lyricist Kumaar
Singer Mika Singh gifts lyricist Kumaar a diamond ring worth ₹18 Lakh – See pic
Kumaar Biography--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 19:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for providing those. Here is my take as I already reviewed some of these in the WP:BEFORE.

Filmfare, not independent. This is an interview with the majority (if not all) information provided by the subject.

Radio and Music, falls under NEWSORGINDIA and not reliable. The clearest signs is the byline of "RnMTeam" instead of an actual writer; and, the article starting with the location which is where the news came from which is often based on a press release or information provided by the subject.

bhaskar.com, This may be lost in translation but what I got from this is it says he has written more than 100 songs for films. That is a statement of notability, but nothing much there other than that and the fact he wrote a song for Mother's Day. Could maybe be used for notability if there are some additional that can be pooled with.

ToI, reports on a statement he made about a film, but nothing significant "about" him. The article, which is also void of a byline, simply quotes what the subject wrote on Instagram.

Bollywood Hungama, reliable source, but it is simply a bunch of pics from his birthday party. No context and not significant. More of a tabloid piece.

Bollywood Bubble, I did not check the reliability of the publication, but assuming it is, the reference is still an interview and not independent.

Bollyy.com, Another non-bylined piece. Also a redacted interview. A few paragraphs with some quotes.

Business Upturn, cool story about being gifted a ring. Tabloid news and pretty much summarizes what the subject has on their Instagram page.

Veethi], a bio listing which is not something we can use for notability.

At this point I would think there is more coverage if the source above is correct about writing songs for over 100 films. I just don't see it unfortunately. Are there possible name variations you would suggest I search for? Based on the claim of notability, I would love to save the page but we need the sources to do so. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I have been unable to find sources that comprehensively list all of the subject's works, I am concluding my part of the discussion here. However, I strongly oppose the deletion of this article. It already meets the criteria outlined in WP:BIO, WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. The inability to find a complete work history should not warrant deletion, as many articles would not meet this standard under similar circumstances. Deleting an article simply due to incomplete citations is not necessary when the subject's notability is already established by existing guidelines.

I encourage the author and other editors to focus on adding more reliable citations to strengthen the article and address the concerns raised by the nominating user. Expanding the list of references and ensuring accurate citations will not only enhance the article's credibility but also help in fulfilling the request for additional sources. Thank you for the discussion, and I hope further contributions will improve the article's quality and completeness. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 06:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.