Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Desmond Anthony Brooke

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. L Faraone 05:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jason Desmond Anthony Brooke

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An obviously promotional article about a non-notable director of his family's trust. The sources listed in the article are about events and the activities of the trust which, while he might have been involved in those events, don't provide significant coverage of the subject himself. I can't see how this passes WP:GNG. Furthermore, it seems likely the article is an autobiography - the author has been removing sourced (but controversial) claims about members of the Brooke family. Stalwart111 22:00, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:08, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Jason appears to be notable in Malaysia as seen in media sources: theborneopost.com, Gov.my, thestar.com.my, nst.com.my. Some of these are trivial mentions but not all, there is content to write an article with, and they show coverage for different things over periods of time (persistence). -- Green Cardamom (talk) 08:17, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A closer look reveals much of that coverage is actually centred around a single visit in September of this year - (from one of the articles) "The Brooke family, who are here in Kuching for three weeks as guests of the Sarawak government for the state’s 50th anniversary celebrations". While in town, the subject (representing his family) made a number of appearances and presentations about his grandfather and other ancestors. Hardly the stuff of WP:N, right? Stalwart111 09:36, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A quick google of 'Jason Brooke Sarawak' brings up hundreds of articles on the subject, spread across 5 years and 6 or 7 visits. I cannot accept that this all centres around a single visit. I have found articles which feature Jason being interviewed by the BBC for a Radio 4 documentary on the assassination of the Governor, another one on his first visit to Sarawak, another one on digitised records and signing memorandums with the Government. It would appear as though Jason is not only widely written about in the Malaysian press, but also features in UK. It would also seem as though he is viewed by people at least in Sarawak as representing the White Rajah Dynasty.

http://www.theborneopost.com/2013/09/19/all-welcome-at-public-memorial-for-last-rajah-muda-jason-brooke/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17299633

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/09/08/James-Brook-Sarawak-ragatta.aspx

http://info-knowledge-today.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/sarawak-up-to-expectation-jason-brooke.html

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Family-reunites-fourth-King-buried-Sheepstor/story-16143788-detail/story.html#axzz2lIgGwBcP

Matthewdarce (talk • contribs) 17:02, 21 November 2013 (UTC) — Matthewdarce (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

You've offered two more recent articles about his September 2013 trip, an obviously non-RS blog and and two articles that include small quotes from the subject (but certainly not about the subject). Really, none of those do much for us with regard to WP:GNG. As famous as his relatives might have been, the subject does not inherit notability from them. The suggestion that the locals of Borneo view him as representing their former "benign dictators" would definitely need a source (needless to say, we've noticed your attempt to title the article with all of his middle names in the same manner as his Rajah relatives). And again, though its not particularly relevant to this discussion, your entire editing history has focused on promoting this individual and removing (often sourced) controversial claims from various Brooke family articles. Are you personally or professionally connected to the subject? Stalwart111 22:11, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry you should suggest my POV as not neutral. Clearly you have displayed your own non-neutral POV with your regrettably sarcastic comment ‘benign dictators’? I have a respect for what the Brookes did in Sarawak, but my aim in contributing to the information on Sarawak is to work towards a neutral representation of facts, to avoid bias, or as with this case to prevent the deletion of pages purely on the basis that someone doesn’t look positively on this family’s legacy. I have no personal connection to the subject, nor do I have any idea whether he has seen this article.

On your other point, if Jason is not generally viewed as representing his family, I wonder why so many articles seem to have him as the interviewee? His first visit to Sarawak in 2008 seems to have garnered such interest that there was a press conference organised about him in Kuching, he was received by the Head of State and Chief Minister etc. The Blog appears to be an extract from an press article of the time (Borneo Post, Sarawak Up to Expectation: Jason Brooke, July 29, 2008) and the (Malaysian National News Agency, Bernama, Jason Brooke Traces Legacy Throughout Visit, July 29 2008)

On the James Brooke comments, you are correct that I should have given reasons at the time for the deletions. I shall go back and find the various academic sources that disagree with the sources cited for these frankly sensational assertions about James Brooke. The James Brooke article clearly focuses on the ‘sensational’ and needs a good edit, which I shall attempt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthewdarce (talk • contribs) 11:58, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That quote wasn't sarcasm, it was a quote - from the BBC source you cited. His is viewed as representing his family, that's the point. He just doesn't inherit notability from them. He also doesn't inherit notability from the leaders he met with on their behalf. You're yet to present sources that give him (rather than other family members) coverage. Again, quotes from him are not significant coverge of him. Stalwart111 12:49, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It would appear as though the printed newspaper sources of 2008 (Bernama, Borneo Post) would contain coverage of the subject himself, rather than his family, again demonstrating the interest in Jason Brooke, although of course related to his position in regard to Sarawak’s history. I could probably request scans of these but I’m not sure that is required for WP. There is no suggestion here that his Notability is inherited, but it also needs to be understood that he is Notable as a result of his position and his family’s connection with Sarawak. Wikipedia rules state that a person may be notable if there is persistent media coverage of the subject, and this subject would seem to pass on that count.Matthewdarce (talk) 13:59, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To help things along, I have just found another article specifically about the Subject, from 2008. http://www.thestar.com.my/story.aspx?file=%2f2008%2f7%2f30%2fnation%2f21952528 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthewdarce (talk • contribs) 17:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -- My first reaction was a negative one as Jason Brooke does not seem to have done much himself, except perhaps look after his ancestors' reputation. However I am prepared to be convinced that he is regarded as notable by the people of his ancestors' state. I think perhaps we need to think about this case as we would the pretender to a European throne. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I suppose I'm on the side of keeping it, but we could definitely clean up the tone of the article. I mean, the photo caption is "Jason Brooke captivates the audience at a press conference in Kuching". It reads as if the author has a crush on him. Slibbidy (talk) 15:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.