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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. I see a consensus to Delete this article due to concerns about the paucity of decent sources for a BLP and concerns about possible copyright issues. No penalty though for editors wanting to write a superior article in Draft space that can be submitted to WP:AFC for review. Liz Read! Talk! 04:31, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

J. Steven Svoboda

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J. Steven Svoboda (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This article about a lawyer and activist has been tagged with too much reliance on primary sources since 2016. I have carried out WP:BEFORE and added what I can, but am not seeing significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. I do not think the article meets WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. Tacyarg (talk) 23:15, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, El Beeblerino if you're not into the whole brevity thing 22:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting again in the hope that it will generate commentary/analysis of recently added sourcing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, El Beeblerino if you're not into the whole brevity thing 00:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • del no significant coverage. --Altenmann >talk 03:36, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Thank you Beeblebrox. I now added 2020 San Bernardino Sun and The New Zealand Herald articles and, more importantly, a 2022 SSM - Qualitative Research in Health and a 2023 Narrative Inquiry in Bioethics articles. There's more to add, maybe even better, if I can find the time. I deleted the {{BLP primary sources|date=March 2016}} because it already seems irrelevant. Involuntary non-therapeutic child genital cutting, including newborn endosex male circumcision, is probably one of the most sensitive topics. It's likely safe to assume that this can explain at least some of the delete votes. If it's ok, I'll be contacting users for a possible vote reevaluation. Chrono1084 (talk) 13:27, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Much has changed. I've added academic and media articles. There's more to add, when I can. My vote is now "Strong keep".Chrono1084 (talk) 05:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Chrono1084 has given 50 plus writings by Svoboda showing he is a big figure. Svoboda is a good personal friend of mine and this appears to be a last ditch, sad attempt to avoid the elephant in the room of male genital mutilation. He is one of the leading experts of child genital cutting. Penises were born perfect. Foreskin is awesome. Cutting the genitals of babies certainly isn't. He has written much on the topic and there's no reason we can't have an article on him. If characters in a video game are important enough to include on here... or baseball cards... he certainly is. Sad to see an attempt to minimize the suffering of men. This appears to be a psychological form of denialism by mutilated men. IntactAndProud (talk) 20:47, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you IntactAndProud for your comment and edit but, sorry, I'm not really convinced that it helped: it added unsourced content, content from sources seem less present, it reorganized the article but not necessarily in a good way, also it appears more about involuntary non-therapeutic child genital cutting in general than about Svoboda. Please maybe revert your edit and let's just keep the new Red Pill part? Thank you Chrono1084 (talk) 21:21, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, GNG fail and doesn't appear to pass any of the SNG either. There simply is not the signficant coverage we would expect of a notable subject here. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:42, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What a complete mess! There is so much POV editing here and the article scores a whopping 89.7% on Earwig's Copyvio Detector! (Yes, that's partially because his book and article titles are so long that they get flagged as similarities but it's not only that.) It's very hard to assess the actual level of notability beyond the fact that there are some hits in Google Scholar and a few passing mention in Google News. If there is a better version to revert to then maybe that is the way forward? Maybe it really is a delete. I don't know. TNT maybe? --DanielRigal (talk) 00:55, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I added some more content. There's more I would like to add.Chrono1084 (talk) 06:31, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails GNG - citations are all either written by the subject, trivial mentions (quotes from article subject in response to some event), or are unreliable sources (like The Good Men Project, a site described as a webblog that shouldn't be used as a source on a BLP at all). Lots of new text has been added during this AFD, but none of it has helped to cure the sourcing problems. - MrOllie (talk) 13:02, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you Mr Ollie for your comment. I added the The Good Men Project article because one of the main expressed concerns was Svoboda's apparent insufficient media coverage. Because that concern seemed legitimate and to be adressed, it's probably best to keep the Good Men Project article? Apparently, most of its informations can be found elsewhere: for instance, the UN consulting part is in the Narrative Inquiry in Bioethics 2023 article. I'm trying to find a second source for the radio appearances part. About the "internationally acclaimed thought leader on fatherhood and men’s issues" part, author Diane Sears probably thought of Svoboda's contributions, particularly in his column for Everyman magazine, "Gender, Law, and Fatherhood." This was a relatively long time ago so it might be difficult to find other online sources. Chrono1084 (talk) 16:10, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Good Men Project is a blog. Per WP:BLPSPS it should not used as a source on a biography. You seem to be spending a lot of time on this, but AFD discussion are all about quality sources, and so far you have none - that's the only thing you ought to be spending time on. Expanding the article with substandard sourcing is just going to be wasted effort if this AFD closes as delete. Diane Sears's blog post is unusable. - MrOllie (talk) 16:57, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - There is an unrefuted claim that this fails ANYBIO/GNG. No sources have been provided in this AfD and I have conducted my own searches. The subject does, in fact, appear in multiple books and articles, but they are authored by the subject and thus not independent. To show notability for an encyclopaedic biography, we are looking for secondary sources about the subject, telling us who he is and why we should care. Listing his output, including quotations to the media, etc., does not do that. Sources need to be independent, reliable and secondary. We still don't have those. Which, incidentally, is not such a surprise as this nom. is always careful, in my experience, to scrupulously try to expand articles prior to nominating them. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:14, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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