Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cheryl A. Esplin (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 19:12, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cheryl A. Esplin

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Non-notable subject that continues to fail WP:BASIC. See below for a source analysis from the previous AfD discussion.

Source	Analysis
Pugmire, Genelle (28 March 2016). "Q and A with Sister Cheryl Esplin, first counselor in Primary General Presidency". Daily Herald.	Primary source consisting of an interview with the subject
Marianne Holman, "Always involved in His great work", Church News, August 14, 2010.	Primary source: not usable to establish notability
"Cheryl A. Esplin", Liahona, May 2010]	Primary source: not usable to establish notability
Stack, Peggy Fletcher (3 April 2010). "New Primary presidency chosen for LDS children". Salt Lake Tribune.	A single quotation from the subject, making the source primary in nature, and also Not WP:SIGCOV
"New General Authorities, Young Men Presidency and Primary Presidency Changes Announced", Mormon Newsroom, April 4, 2015.	Primary source: not usable to establish notability
Walch, Ted (27 March 2015). "Preparing to split up, LDS General Primary Presidency looks back on 5 years of service together". Deseret News.	Not WP:SIGCOV: Consists of one sentence about the subject, with the remaining content consisting of quotations.
"Church gets visit and training from women leaders". St. Cloud Times. 7 October 2013.	(?) – Source searches are not providing the article. It's title suggests that it likely consists of routine coverage.
Walch, Tad (21 November 2015). "Mormon women leaders visit Asia". Deseret News.	(?) – Source searches are not providing the article. It's title suggests that it likely consists of routine coverage.
Stark, Peggy Fletcher (20 March 2014). "A first: Photos of Mormon women leaders in Conference Center". Salt Lake Tribune.	Not WP:SIGCOV: A single name check
"First Presidency Announces New Primary General Presidency", Newsroom, LDS Church, 2016-04-02	Primary source: not usable to establish notability
Stark, Peggy Fletcher (7 April 2015). "Defend 'traditional families' and beware of 'worldly dogma,' Mormons told". Salt Lake Tribune.	Not WP:SIGCOV: Consists of one sentence about the subject, with the remaining content consisting of quotations.
Stark, Peggy Fletcher (3 April 2010). "Families in peril, LDS leaders warn". Salt Lake Tribune.	Not WP:SIGCOV: A single name check in the image caption. The subject is not mentioned in the article body at all.
Christiansen, Barbara (28 March 2015). "LDS Women's Session focuses on family, home". Daily Herald.e	Not WP:SIGCOV: Four very short sentences, with the remaining content consisting of quotes. This has no biographical information about the subject, just the subject's opinion relative to their religion.
Stark, Peggy Fletcher (9 October 2014). "Be civil in opposing gay marriage, Mormon apostle says". Salt Lake Tribune.	Not WP:SIGCOV: One short sentence about the subject, and a single (primary) quotation.
"General Auxiliary Leaders: Sister Cheryl A. Esplin", lds.org	Primary source: not usable to establish notability
Teaching Our Children to Understand. Cheryl A. Esplin - April 2012 General Conference. Daily Herald	Primary source: not usable to establish notability

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:37, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Utah-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The so called primary sources are secondary newspaper sources. The attempt to call others not significant coverage is an abuse of the term. The whole nomination is misussing terms. Articles published in news papers, subject to editors other than the subject, are not primary sources. This is part of a long standing pattern of nominations seeking to exclude a huge swath of Latter-day Saint sources. This nomination is even worse considering it is a rehash of a previous nomination. In the last there were two keep votes and no one supported this editors crusade of seeking to wipe out articles on Latter-day Saints, especially Latter-day Saint women. This is becoming tedious. The analysis involves moving the goal posts. Articles do not need to provide biographical information to be signifant coverage. If papers feel the persons remarks are worth reporting on, than this is a sign of notability. Every source adds at least some to notability, and at least 3 are independet, 3rd party sources that have enough coverge to pass GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:13, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding "the so called primary sources are secondary newspaper sources":

Church News is owned by the LDS Church. This is a primary source; it is not an independent, secondary source.
Mormon Newsroom is the official newsroom of the LDS Church. This is a primary source; it is not an independent, secondary source.
Liahona (magazine) is the official international magazine of The LDS Church; it is not an independent, secondary source.

Also, this nomination has nothing to do with the subject's gender as insinuated above, and notability is not gender-based.
Furthermore, passing mentions and name checks ≠ significant coverage, and just do not qualify notability. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:35, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Note that user JohnPackLambert as creator of this article is not an uninvolved editor. valereee (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Additional input on independence of sources required.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 18:39, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Concur with the nominator's evaluation of sources as not independent (lds.org, Liahona, Church News) or routine coverage and quotes from church PR that are not significant coverage of this article's subject. The two sources with question marks above are no better. The St. Cloud Times article's entire coverage of the subject is "Cheryl A. Esplin, a counselor in the General Primary Presidency of the Church, provided training to women who support parents in teaching children." The Deseret News story on the visit to Asia is actually the church's newsroom PR blurb, lightly edited for republication, and is therefore not independent. It doesn't add up to significant coverage in independent reliable sources, so the subject does not pass WP:GNG. Readers can find the church's PR publications without Wikipedia's help. Bakazaka (talk) 23:22, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 18:47, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete - The subject fails multiple notability criteria: WP:BIO, WP:GNG, and probably is a COI as well. Skirts89 (talk) 19:39, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—I agree with Bakazaka and the views expressed in earlier noms. The sources simply aren't independent or notable enough in coverage otherwise. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 15:28, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.