Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carl Craig

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. Typical stuff up, turns out he received a Grammy nomination for BEST REMIXED RECORDING, NON-CLASSICAL - Like A Child (Carl Craig Remix)[1], in 2007. (non-admin closure) Prince of Thieves (talk) 16:26, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Carl Craig

Carl Craig (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable musician. The article makes a big effort to make him sound relevant but ends up just being promotional. Fails WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:PROMO. Prince of Thieves (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

• Keep -- Get for real! Meets GNG for sure, but even more clearly meets WP:NBAND criterion #7, which states: "Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city." The city, of course, is Detroit. And the evidence is, e.g., NPR review of Versus: "Detroit's electronic-music deity Carl Craig" or Mixmag: "the Detroit legend" or Village Voice review of Versus: "Detroit Techno veteran Carl Craig." or Billboard review of Versus: "techno luminary Carl Craig" not to mention Mixmag again: "Arriving onto the scene shortly after the birth of techno as one of the forerunners in Detroit’s second wave, Carl Craig has been leading the way for musical innovation for nearly three decades." Did I say NBAND #7? Forget it. Obviously meets GNG with reviews in Billboard, the Village Voice, Mixmag, Clash right here: [2], a profile in the Herald Sun, a review in the Financial Times of all places (sorry for paywall), a squib in the New Yorker, for God's sake, an interview in Fact here: [3], and DJ Mag calls him one of the most important artists in techno, and so on. Another extraordinarily irresponsible nomination. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 14:21, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

@192.160.216.52: I did see (most) the sources you list. I was looking for something substantial, preferably something that would support some encyclopedia content and wasn't a quasi-primary source like an interview. But are you saying that WP:NBAND #7 is definitely met? Prince of Thieves (talk) 14:28, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Note -- Pings don't seem to work on IP editors. Let's forget about NBAND #7 for a bit and why don't you explain why those sources aren't substantial. Are you saying, e.g., that you saw the guy profiled in the Herald Sun, interviewed in Fact, his albums reviewed in Billboard and the Village Voice and by NPR and you decided that that's not substantial coverage? That seems kooky. But yes, NBAND #7, a much, much weaker criterion than GNG, is clearly met. Just google Detroit techno innovator and see how many times Carl Craig comes up. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 14:36, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

• So the fact the author felt it necessary to write:

Carl Craig (born May 22, 1969) is an American electronic music producer, considered to be one of the most important names in the Detroit second generation of techno musicians. According to an article about Craig, "Of this group, Craig was often recognised as being the most artful and the most willing to engage the rapidly growing shape of techno outside Detroit."[1] Craig has approached techno using inspiration from a wide range of musical genres, including jazz and soul.

Is in my opinion because there isn't enough material, i.e it's not substantial. For example:

• http://www.factmag.com/2017/04/25/carl-craig-versus-interview/ - interview is quasi-primary source

• https://www.npr.org/2017/04/27/525542911/first-listen-carl-craig-versus - very positive but barely mentions Craig.

• http://mixmag.net/read/carl-craig-in-the-lab-nyc-brandedcontent-dj-lab - big writing says: "SPONSORED EDITORIAL" so not usable (it's paid content)

• http://mixmag.net/read/carl-craig-in-the-lab-ibz-dj-lab - barely mentions him, and after the last paid article this dubious.

• https://www.villagevoice.com/2017/07/20/carl-craigs-string-theory-the-detroit-house-pioneer-gets-orchestral/ - this is pretty good since it talks about his music in reasoanble detail.

• https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/dance/7759633/carl-craig-at-les-versus-album-interview-2017 - interview is quasi-primary source

• http://www.clashmusic.com/reviews/carl-craig-versus - contains no infomation on Craig at all, being a review of one of his songs.

• http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/confidential/us-techno-great-carl-craig-on-going-symphonic-musical-snobbery-and-the-business-of-marriage/news-story/7b73ecd2074b4611d23a3b867bd92457?nk=050dc41a1422f77660def572dd2e9d39-1520950569 - interview is quasi-primary source

• review in the Financial Times - paywall so no idea, could be good because the FT is normally good.

• https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/carl-craigs-detroit-love - barely a mention, no information

• http://www.factmag.com/2017/04/25/carl-craig-versus-interview/ - interview is quasi-primary source

• https://djmag.com/features/zone-carl-craigs-orchestra - interview is quasi-primary source

I don't see how this meets WP:GNG, there is barely 2-3 decent sources, with no information beyond "Craig is a techno musician, we hear he is big in Detroit" -- Prince of Thieves (talk) 15:11, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 15:59, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 15:59, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

• Comment -- You're like King Canute here, friend. Let's look at:
  • CMJ Sept 2001
  • Technorebels: The renegades of electronic funk
  • CMJ interview Oct 11, 1999
  • CMJ March 1997
  • Energy Flash -- A whole chapter on Detroit dance music with Craig name-checked in the subhead.
  • Unlocking the Groove -- Detailed analysis of Craig tracks
  • Last Night a DJ Saved My Life: The History of the Disc Jockey

Essentially, this nomination is a lost cause. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 16:11, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

• Comment -- And the coup de grace? Meets WP:BAND criterion #8: "Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammis award" as he was nominated for a Grammy in 2007. Time to withdraw, my esteemed colleague. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 16:16, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.