Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive334
KronosAlight
[edit]This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning KronosAlight
[edit]- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Dylanvt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:24, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- KronosAlight (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
Well isn't this ironic.
Violated 1RR at:
2024 Nuseirat rescue operation
- 08:02, 11 June 2024 Partial revert of this and this.
- 20:55, 10 June 2024 Revert of this.
- 20:26, 10 June 2024 Combined revert of this and this.
- 14:03, 10 June 2024 Partial revert of this.
- 13:49, 10 June 2024 Partial revert of this.
- 13:46, 10 June 2024 Revert of this and partial revert of this and this and this and this and this.
- 07:39, 11 June 2024 Revert of this and this.
- 14:52, 10 June 2024 Combined partial revert of this and this and this and this and this.
Nuseirat refugee camp massacre
- 08:14, 10 June 2024 Partial revert of this.
- 08:01, 10 June 2024 Combined partial and complete reverts of this and this and this and this and this and this and this.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 20:35, 28 March 2024 Indefinitely topic banned from "flood myths".
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 00:06, 11 June 2024 (see the system log linked to above). When I explained that they were constrained by 1RR and must self-revert their response was "No." They didn't dispute that they had violated 1RR or indicate that they did not understand it in any way. They simply flat-out refused.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
KronosAlight also has a history of making incendiary, belligerent, aspersive, and off-topic comments on talk pages.
- lol. Some of the revisions, like 20:55, 10 June 2024, aren't even manual reverts. They're literal "I clicked the undo button to revert someone else's edit" reverts. I don't have time to deal with this further. The reverts and belligerent talk page behavior, and previous arbitration decision, all speak for themselves. Kronos can keep grandstanding for all I care, it doesn't change the facts. Dylanvt (talk) 13:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
here.
Discussion concerning KronosAlight
[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by KronosAlight
[edit]None of these are 'reverts'. I removed your editorialising and filled out citation data in existing citations, and added new ones.
Editing an existing page, clarifying what the sources cited actually say, is not a revert and there is therefore nothing to answer for here.
You can avoid this problem in future by better complying with NPOV and related Wikipedia rules on editorialisation, bias, and editing wars.
By way of example, in the Al-Sardi school attack article, the complainant initially used the infobox: civilian attack, has repeatedly sought to editorialise it and similar articles, nor did their version include even one mention of the IDF's official statements in which they claimed to have identified at least 9 terrorists killed in the strike. One needn't take them at their word - their claims should be couched as just that, a claim, that cannot be independently verified. But to omit any mention of this? And to seek to revert edits clarifying that the Gaza Health Ministry are Hamas-run (without removing any of their claims) and make requests that articles about strikes be renamed as "massacres", suggests that this is simply a vexatious complaint by a user engaged in a political campaign with Wikipedia's neutrality the victim.
Wikipedia is not a place for you to wage political wars, it's a neutral space for information.
To be honest I wasn’t familiar with the 1RR before this complaint, I don’t usually edit articles about recent events. The policy seems a bit odd to me, just seems to let trolls off the hook, but yeah, I obviously didn’t comply with that rule. I’m happy to own that and ensure going forwards that my edits respect it. KronosAlight (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- If I may also add, a number of editors whom I (implicitly) referenced in some of those Talk comments have since been given indefinite bans on editing articles related to Israel-Palestine.
- I accept that I shouldn’t have spoken in that way, but in my defence, a number of administrators clearly ended up independently agreeing with me, substantively, that these users had in fact been editing in violation of NPOV and related rules.
- I don't accept that I was doing so, by the way. I was unaware that there had been any sort of high-level Admin/Editorial discussion relating to the Gazan Health Ministry claims, and am obviously willing to go along with that decision now that I'm aware of it.
- But I think if you look at the edits I actually made, they were absolutely neutral, they contextualised various claims made by each side, and they were actually designed to address the existing NPOV violations which subsequently got those users banned from further edits.
- Again, I accept it’s still not on to just accuse someone of that, but I wasn’t seeing anything being done about it (didn’t even know about some of these rules tbh), which felt frustrating and partly explains what happened there. KronosAlight (talk) 16:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- I’d also of course accept @Newyorkbrad’s request that I refrain from avoiding unnecessary commentary on Talk pages etc. It was counterproductive for me to do that and I certainly was not as polite as I should have been. KronosAlight (talk) 16:23, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by BilledMammal
[edit]Kronos, going to the talk page. If an editor is routinely engaged in POV pushing and source distortion then that becomes a behavioral issue that can be addressed here, but it doesn't justify violating 1RR - and violating 1RR to address such issues can simply mean that you are sanctioned, rather than the editor engaging in POV pushing and source distortion.
I strongly encourage you to self-revert your violations now. BilledMammal (talk) 14:17, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Do you mean simply reverting to the version of the article prior to any 'reverts'? KronosAlight (talk) 14:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- You need to reverse any of your edits that can still be reversed, but leave any changes made by other editors in place. On a very active page this can be difficult, but as long as you make a good faith effort to undo your violations I don't think the admins will hold it against you. BilledMammal (talk) 14:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I've returned the School attack article to how it was before, i.e. the reference to Hamas removed.
- I’ll see what I can do about the rescue operation article. That’s obviously more complicated because a lot of edits have been made since that. KronosAlight (talk) 14:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 14:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm pretty sure both articles are more or less as they were before this whole 'reverting' thing.
- That means there's claims on these articles which some other editor is going to have to inspect re NPOV etc., and some of which already have Talk threads about, but I'm going to keep away from it. KronosAlight (talk) 14:35, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 14:31, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- You need to reverse any of your edits that can still be reversed, but leave any changes made by other editors in place. On a very active page this can be difficult, but as long as you make a good faith effort to undo your violations I don't think the admins will hold it against you. BilledMammal (talk) 14:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
[edit]The 1R here is a slamdunk so no comment on that, the little BM/Kronos tete a tete above looks like a resolution. However I will just note that we are once again dealing with this GHM nonsense just as in the other complaint. I am convinced these edits are simply intended to provoke and kudos to complainant for refusing to be provoked this time. Selfstudier (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
[edit]Result concerning KronosAlight
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I have to say I assumed this report was going to be a tit-for-tat one given the fact that the OP is mentioned in a previous section; however, even a brief reading of the evidence strongly suggests that KronosAlight is not a very good fit for such a contentious topic area. This, this followed by this spectacular lack of self-awareness are not good. The refusal to revert after violating 1RR, and the response above which suggests they don't actually think 1RR applies to them at all (
"None of these are 'reverts'. I removed your editorialising"
- which is effectively saying "I reverted your edit, but it doesn't count as a revert because I was reverting something which I think is wrong") are merely supporting evidence of this. Black Kite (talk) 14:05, 11 June 2024 (UTC) - Since KronosAlight says he was previously unfamiliar with the 1RR restriction on these articles and from now on will comply with it, I would be content to resolve that aspect of the complaint with a warning. I am more troubled by the POV issue, and would also like KronosAlight also to promise to avoid unnecessary commentary and to edit neutrally if he is going to remain active in this topic-area. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:19, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Dylanvt
[edit]| Dylanvt (talk · contribs) is warned to adhere to the Arab-Israeli conflict's topic-wide general sanction of 1RR and is warned to remain WP:CIVIL within the topic area. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Dylanvt[edit]
Violated 1RR at:
Discussion concerning Dylanvt[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Dylanvt[edit]The edits billedmammal linked are not reversions, they are merely edits made to the articles. He even went scrolling back two weeks into my edit history to bring up old and already resolved actions. If you look at my edit history you will see I'm clearly not engaged in edit warring on any of the articles he linked.
Ultimately I think everybody's time would be better served by making actual contributions to Wikipedia, instead of wasting everybody's time with petty punitive arbitration. When BilledMammal brought up the reversions I'd made at Tel al-Sultan massacre, e.g., it contributed nothing to the project and instead resulted in me being forced to move the article back to the wrong title in the middle of a move discussion, creating havoc in the talk page for everyone involved, when instead we could have just moved on and continued to do useful things for the project. Dylanvt (talk) 14:24, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Ivanvector[edit]Posting up here because I suppose I'm involved - I initially restored the edit which Dylanvt is now accused of edit-warring over at Genocide of Indigenous peoples. I don't think any admin did advise them to self-revert; if BilledMammal is referring to my comments on the edit war I said that I was ignoring it and had started an RFC instead but I didn't tell anyone to do anything; the page was then full-protected by PhilKnight. In looking for that warning I went to Dylanvt's talk page and reviewed this warning and discussion, which was regarding the edits listed above on Tel al-Sultan massacre, in which BilledMammal and ScottishFinnishRadish demanded that Dylanvt self-revert a page move which was a 1RR violation. It is accurate to say that Dylanvt refused, but that also grossly oversimplifies the situation: Dylanvt had good reason to refuse, as there was an ongoing discussion about the move and at least one other editor (Vanilla Wizard) objected to reverting because of the ongoing discussion. As Dylanvt tried to explain, a separate move review had directed that the article be kept at that title pending the result of the ongoing discussion, and had Dylanvt reverted their move someone else would just have to move it back per WP:TITLECHANGES. Eventually, after more IDHT and bullying from BM and SFR, Dylanvt did revert their move, which as predicted created a technical mess which had to be reverted again by a different administrator, who cited the exact rationale Dylanvt had been trying to explain the whole time. It was all a bureaucratic waste of everyone's time because two experienced editors care more about enforcing one particular rule because "it's teh rulez" rather than use some discretion and common sense (we have WP:IAR for a reason). I see that trend repeating in the report here. BilledMammal has gone out of their way to classify these edits as "reverts" when, as Dylanvt also has tried to explain, they are edits in the course of constructing a rapidly developing article being edited by many editors at the same time, and happen to have changed information added by someone else previously. By that overly-broad definition, nearly every edit to these articles since their creation is a revert; of course they are not, this is just the normal editorial process. The 1RR rule is meant to limit disruption; these edits were decidedly not disruptive. The rule is certainly not meant to be a "gotcha!" rule whereby any two edits that look superficially similar can be used to eject an editor from a topic, nor is it meant to be used as a tool for harassment as seems to be happening here. The edit war on Genocide of Indigenous peoples was actually a revert war (in that case Dylanvt was intentionally undoing a previous edit, as was I) but that situation was dealt with. We can waste more time bureaucratically arguing over whether or not the highlighted edits to the other pages are reverts to the extent that the policy is violated (they aren't) or we could skip all that and simply acknowledge that no disruption has occurred. In fact the situation would be greatly improved overall if BilledMammal were sanctioned against anything to do with 1RR enforcement in this topic. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier[edit]I know content is not the thing here but this nonsense with the GHM needs to be resolved once for all. Afaik, across various discussions at articles and at noticeboards, it has been resolved and the consensus is that the GHM is reliable and editors that persist in adding "Hamas run" in front of that are only intending to provoke/cast doubt on that assessment, attribution to GHM is all that is needed, nothing more. So on the behavioral front, while in general it would be better to ignore the provocation and start a talk page discussion, I do sympathize with removing the unnecessary. Selfstudier (talk) 17:12, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Dylanvt[edit]
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KronosAlight
[edit]| By consensus of administrators at AE, KronosAlight is warned to abide by the one-revert rule when making edits within the scope of the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 19:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning KronosAlight[edit]
Well isn't this ironic. Violated 1RR at: 2024 Nuseirat rescue operation
Nuseirat refugee camp massacre
KronosAlight also has a history of making incendiary, belligerent, aspersive, and off-topic comments on talk pages.
here. Discussion concerning KronosAlight[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by KronosAlight[edit]None of these are 'reverts'. I removed your editorialising and filled out citation data in existing citations, and added new ones. Editing an existing page, clarifying what the sources cited actually say, is not a revert and there is therefore nothing to answer for here. You can avoid this problem in future by better complying with NPOV and related Wikipedia rules on editorialisation, bias, and editing wars. By way of example, in the Al-Sardi school attack article, the complainant initially used the infobox: civilian attack, has repeatedly sought to editorialise it and similar articles, nor did their version include even one mention of the IDF's official statements in which they claimed to have identified at least 9 terrorists killed in the strike. One needn't take them at their word - their claims should be couched as just that, a claim, that cannot be independently verified. But to omit any mention of this? And to seek to revert edits clarifying that the Gaza Health Ministry are Hamas-run (without removing any of their claims) and make requests that articles about strikes be renamed as "massacres", suggests that this is simply a vexatious complaint by a user engaged in a political campaign with Wikipedia's neutrality the victim. Wikipedia is not a place for you to wage political wars, it's a neutral space for information. To be honest I wasn’t familiar with the 1RR before this complaint, I don’t usually edit articles about recent events. The policy seems a bit odd to me, just seems to let trolls off the hook, but yeah, I obviously didn’t comply with that rule. I’m happy to own that and ensure going forwards that my edits respect it. KronosAlight (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by BilledMammal[edit]Kronos, going to the talk page. If an editor is routinely engaged in POV pushing and source distortion then that becomes a behavioral issue that can be addressed here, but it doesn't justify violating 1RR - and violating 1RR to address such issues can simply mean that you are sanctioned, rather than the editor engaging in POV pushing and source distortion. I strongly encourage you to self-revert your violations now. BilledMammal (talk) 14:17, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier[edit]The 1R here is a slamdunk so no comment on that, the little BM/Kronos tete a tete above looks like a resolution. However I will just note that we are once again dealing with this GHM nonsense just as in the other complaint. I am convinced these edits are simply intended to provoke and kudos to complainant for refusing to be provoked this time. Selfstudier (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning KronosAlight[edit]
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Ltbdl
[edit]| Ltbdl is indefinitely topic banned from post-1992 American politics and gender related disputes, broadly construed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:37, 18 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ltbdl[edit]
Discussion concerning ltbdl[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ltbdl[edit]i am aware of this, and have nothing to say. ltbdl (talk) 08:37, 13 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by FortunateSons[edit]This sort of conduct in a heated and contentious area is highly unproductive and should be appropriately sanctioned. FortunateSons (talk) 08:47, 13 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by Springee[edit]I'm concerned that this was an out of the blue uncivil action. If we had been debating or had a long interaction history and they made this claim, well that could just be frustration or opinion built up over time. However, when an account that per the interaction analyzer, I've never interacted with, starts throwing out comments like that, it makes me wonder why they needed a clean start and if granting it was appropriate. Certainly the replies here suggest they don't see an issue with the actions. I think some sort of action should be taken (warning, block, etc) so if this uncivil behavior continues other editors can see the behavior is part of a pattern. Springee (talk) 11:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by Red-tailed hawk[edit]Because I participated in the RfC where the comments were made, I'm going to write here rather than in the section for uninvolved admins below. This is an extremely clear case of a personal attack directed at an editor, and the behavior that taunts the personally attacked editor is... bizarre. I agree with SFR that this is unacceptable, but I'd only recommend a TBAN if there is some broader issue than this one incident, and I'm just not seeing those diffs here. If this is merely a personal attack/casting aspersions against Springee, perhaps a one-way I-ban or a block would be better than a TBAN. (If there were an apology, an acknowledgement that what they did was grossly out of line with WP:CIVIL, and they struck the personal attacks, I might even just recommend a logged warning for civility in the two topic areas. But I just don't see any remorse, nor evidence proffered that the allegations made by respondent against Springee are in any way substantiated, so I do think that something more restrictive is warranted.) — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning ltbdl[edit]
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Riposte97
[edit]| Riposte97 is warned to abide by the general bold-revert-discuss restriction that is present on Hunter Biden, per the consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Riposte97[edit]
Editor has reverted to re-include material at Hunter Biden in violation of active arbitration remedies and then refused to self-revert when advised of their transgression. TarnishedPathtalk 14:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Riposte97[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Riposte97[edit]Good morning, I maintain that my revert restored consensus. As pointed out above, the sentence in question was inserted on 10 June UTC. A little over three days passed, before the submitter removed it. In that time, the page was edited dozens of times, and the lead extensively discussed on the talk page. I believed, and still do, that the circumstances illustrate consensus for the sentence. If reasonable minds differ, I’d submit the easiest thing to do would be to raise the substance of any objection on the article talk page, rather than go straight to ANI. Please note I am subject to the disadvantages of editing on mobile until I get home from work this evening. Thanks.
Statement by SPECIFICO[edit]@Riposte97: To help advance this to a conclusion, could you please elaborate on your statement, Thanks for your reply, Riposte. While that is good practice, it is not why you were reported here. SPECIFICO talk 02:38, 17 June 2024 (UTC) @Riposte97: stated that they had read and understood the policy. They then repeated their misstatement of the violation under review here. We'd all hope that a warning and Riposte's best efforts to adhere to CT would suffice. But so far, there's no sign that has begun, even with a careful reading of the matter on the table. SPECIFICO talk 15:45, 18 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by Elinruby[edit]I would like to point out the editor's behaviour at Talk:Canadian Indian residential school gravesites where, based on an extremely unreliable source, the editor insisted on inserting into the lead a misleading statement that no human remains had been found in archaeological excavations at schools. (See RSN thread) He then rewrote large sections of the article over the protests of other editors: after being reverted by @Ivanvector: Elinruby (talk) 09:25, 18 June 2024 (UTC) @Graham87 and DanielRigal: may also wish to comment based on an ANI thread linked at the user's talk page: [17] Elinruby (talk) 09:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC) @Riposte97: I think this is highly relevant. The modus operandi of making changes while claiming consensus and adherence to policy is identical. And yes, indeed, I was blocked for a week in a series of events that began with removing the very claim Ivanvector describes above as "your repeated attempts to force in an inappropriately-sourced and provably false narrative". I have have own my thoughts on that block, but more to the point, you then removed a whole lot of reliably sourced information that you described as inaccurate and poorly sourced. This is a pattern, and by the way, it was nothing of the kind. As for canvassing: these administrators may be interested in commenting. There was an ANI case. This is relevant. I will answer any questions admins may have but have no intention of responding further to this user. I note that my talk page diffs of other users protesting are broken; I am working on re-finding them right now and they should work shortly. TL;DR this is not someone encountering wikipedia governance for the first time who just needs a little guidance. Elinruby (talk) 10:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Riposte97[edit]
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Konanen
[edit]| Konanen is indefinitely topic banned from Reiki, broadly construed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:45, 18 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Konanen[edit]
User Konanen is civilly pushing a point of view, promoting false neutrality, and editing tendentiously on the alternative medicine topic Reiki. Konanen opened the NPOVN discussion linked above, in parallel to a discussion already occurring on the article's talk page, with a request to remove the term "quackery" because they personally found it offensive, and to omit "pseudoscience" because of the term being redundant due to its occurrence in a linked article. Several editors objected, and there was some discussion which led to copyediting some repetitive occurrences of "pseudoscience" and improving the attribution of "quackery", but no consensus is evident for either term's removal. The discussion basically concluded on 30 May, other than one editor who on 5 June added their own biased tally of votes supporting their position and began removing all instances describing the practice as pseudoscience from the article, as well as a large criticism section; the other editor was topic-banned in a different thread here. In the course of reverting the topic-banned user's disruptive edits, user Valjean restored an earlier revision and inadvertently removed the {{npov}} banner on 13 June. Konanen demanded that the banner be restored, referring to the false consensus and subsequent disruptive editing of the topic-banned user as evidence of ongoing discussion. When Valjean and Tgeorgescu responded essentially that two editors do not a consensus make, Konanen started the ANI thread reporting both users for personal attacks. At ANI, several users both involved and not observed that Konanen is pushing the same POV as the topic-banned user, and expressed frustration over Konanen's insistence on displaying the neutrality banner. Several editors commented that the NPOVN discussion was concluded (e.g. [19], [20]), that the tag should be removed ([21], [22]), and that Konanen should drop the issue (e.g. [23], [24], [25], [26]), with many already suggesting a topic ban. Valjean did restore the banner some time later in an effort to move on. Another editor then invited Konanen to identify the issue in a new talk page section. Konanen insisted that they didn't need to provide an explanation for the banner, and implied that the banner should remain until they were satisfied with the NPOVN discussion's outcome. I attempted to explain that cleanup tags are not meant to be used in this way and, referring to the opinion of ANI that the discussion was concluded, removed the banner again, suggesting that they should re-add it themselves only if they had another issue to discuss. Konanen still refuses to accept this, and this morning demanded that I self-revert or cite policy supporting the removal, which is blatant wikilawyering, and posted a new tally of votes at NPOVN which serves no purpose other than to tendentiously relitigate a discussion result they do not agree with. I therefore propose that they be banned from the topic. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Konanen[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Konanen[edit]Interesting to find myself here when all I have done is to advocate for discussion and transparency (by way of a POV tag) about said discussion pertaining to a matter of NPOV. First of all, I object to the submitter’s falsehoods re I reject the accusation of tendentious editing. Precisely because I have an opinion on the subject matter, and because I do not think I could do a better job than previous editors in fixing the perceived POV issues, have I not dared edit the article in question except for adding the POV tag. If talking about the content of an article, and taking the matter to NPOV/N for wider input is considered tendentious editing, then I apologise ― I was not aware that its definition had such a wide scope. Valjean restored an early version, citing accidental removal ([27]), but they were terse and bordered on personal attacks when I asked them to restore, hence the decision to take the matter to ANI, instead of edit warring over the issue ( The discussion on NPOV/N began on the 29th of May ([28]), so alleging that discussion concluded on the 30th of May is disingenuous when there has been some activity since ([29] [30] [31]). I am partially to blame for the lull in activity between the 6th and 13th of June, but that should not stand in the way of the discussion’s legitimacy, considering that it has continued just fine without my input ([32] [33]) which is further proof that the matter was not laid to rest, and there was no consensus reached that article is NPOV, wherefore there were no grounds for the removal of the POV tag (which Valjean had agreed to reinstate yesterday during the ANI procedure, but above submitter saw fit to remove again, even though the matter had not concluded on NPOV/N nor on the article’s talk page, see diffs below). All that being said, since yesterday, there has been further opining about the article’s NPOV on its talk page as well as the noticeboard following Valjean’s substantial changes to the lead and my creating a summary of the discussion so far for a better overview ([34] [35] [36] [37] [38]). In my humble opinion, we have come to a good arrangement as to the lead. I am not interested in keeping the POV tag for the tag’s sake, and I think a good discussion has given way to an acceptable compromise less than an hour ago ([39]). I consider the matter satisfactorily discussed and remedied, and see no need for the POV tag to be restored at this time. Cheers, –Konanen (talk) 17:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by berchanhimez[edit]I believe that I may be the other user referred to by Ivanvector. I opened the talkpage section for the tag to give Konanen a chance (and any other editors, for that matter) to actually clearly state what NPOV issue was so prevalent in the article to merit a tag on the whole article. This way other editors could begin the process of improving any issues. Konanen replied that they Their behavior in the discussions leaves a lot to be desired - and whether they are well-intentioned or not, they've displayed their inability to constructively contribute to articles about pseudoscientific "medical treatments" on Wikipedia. I do not believe that a topic ban from all of medicine is merited necessarily, but a topic ban wider than reiki for sure. They started the discussion at NPOVN based on them finding the term pseudoscience "objectionable", and it is clear that early on they were on a crusade to legitimize reiki as scientifically sound and trusted. That alone should be enough evidence that they cannot contribute constructively to alternative medicine topics on Wikipedia, since they have admitted since the start that their personal objection is more important than the sources and discussion. A topic ban from alternative medicine need not be permanent, but the editor (who is still relatively new) should display their ability to have constructive and cooperative dialogue about article content before they should be allowed into the broader area again after this. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 01:11, 15 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Konanen[edit]
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Rp2006
[edit]| Rp2006 blocked indefinitely for repeated TBAN violations. As per standard, the first year of the block is an AE sanction, converting thereafter to a normal admin action. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Rp2006[edit]
Facilitated communication has a Wikipedia:WikiProject Skepticism tag on the talk page and the first source is Skeptical Inquirer, and many other sources in the article are related to skepticism. There was also a minor BLPvio in the lead, linking a former NFL player as the
Discussion concerning Rp2006[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Rp2006[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Rp2006[edit]
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195.225.189.243
[edit]| IP p-blocked from article space for 1 year as an ordinary admin action. A potentially related IP was referred to SPI. -- Euryalus (talk) 00:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 195.225.189.243[edit]
Notified at 16:23, April 10, 2024
As well as the main IP which is used on a regular basis, they have also used 84.66.90.166 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), 84.69.68.199 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 84.69.113.221 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (and possibly some others I forgot to keep track of), see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/195.225.189.243/Archive. Despite the two blocks and countless warnings across their various IP addresses, they carry on making unsourced changes.
Discussion concerning 195.225.189.243[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by 195.225.189.243[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning 195.225.189.243[edit]
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Monopoly31121993(2)
[edit]| Monopoly31121993(2) is indefinitely topic banned from the Arab/Israel conflict, broadly construed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:30, 28 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Monopoly31121993(2)[edit]
15:26, 19 November 2023 (see the system log linked to above).
6 April 2024 Further evidence of WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior.
Discussion concerning Monopoly31121993(2)[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Monopoly31121993(2)[edit]I apologize if I offended anyone. summary of events: In this specific case, I saw that a wikipedia page for Gaza Genocide was about to be created (via a renaming process) and thought that was revisionist to an extreme. I mentioned that this was similar to when editors (some of whom are involved again now) declared the Gaza Stripe Famine several months ago. I saw that this article name change was being done despite having failed multiple time in the past after months of attempts and that this latest attempt began by pinging a certain list of editors (who they were, I don't know). I responded by pinging editors who had recently contributed to discussion about deleting or merging another Israel-Palestine article. I didn't discriminate or cherry-pick editors, I just pinged 50 of the most recent editors to see if they wanted to contribute. I also made a statement, that I am very concerned that Wikipedia's neutrality is rapidly evaporating on the topic of Israel-Palestine. Instead I saw and see activism, attempts to promote specific narratives about this conflict appearing in the editors remarks and actions. Calls to change page names to "massacres, genocides and famines" when such words are not commonplace but instead ubiquitous in a certain narrative's framing of this conflict but not in the mainstream. I said that I thought Putin, Xi and Islamists, who share Putin and Xi's totalitarian ethos, would be delighted to see that Wikipedia, which is viewed as factual in the Free World, could be altered to fit one specific narrative framing so easily. If I worked for their propaganda departments I would be studying these talk pages very carefully. And with that action by me this arbitration was called. After having been an editor on Wikipedia for something like a decade now I can't recall reading the WP:BATTLEGROUND page but now that I have I can say I feel better knowing that we have a process for dealing with the kinds of comments I have seen thrown around, especially recently on Israel-Palestine pages. From now on I will report any perceived uncivilly, insults, intimidation. Again, I apologize to any editor who feels I have been uncivil towards them.
Seraphimblade, ScottishFinnishRadish and Euryalus, Will I have a chance to respond to you before you impose a decision? As I'm reading this it seems the discussion has moved far beyond what was originally mentioned into something of a review of all edits that I have made on Israel-Palestine articles over the past few months with Euryalus providing both prosecutorial evidence against me and judgement. That same new evidence outside of the original discussion is then picked up by Seraphimblade and ScottishFinnishRadish and a topical ban on my editing is suggested. That seems totally unfair considering that many remarks have been made by editors on this topic which, by this logic, would also require them to be Topic Banned. Instead, I have said here that I had never heard of "Battleground" until now and now having learned of it, after something like 10 years of editing, I think I should receive a warning given that I said I will take steps to avoid this behavior going forward. Also, for the record, I don't recall ever saying anyone worked for Putin or Xi. I said, those leaders would be happy with edits that portray the war as one of mass genocidal massacres by an American ally. That clearly plays well with their narratives that the US is just evil, etc. But I never said that those editors were Russian or Chinese trolls or anything like that so please don't say that I did because I didn't and don't think they are. I think those editors are extremely passionate about this topic which is attested to by the fact that many of them post that they member of groups related to it and many edit pages on this topic far far more than I do. The fact that my perspective often differs from theirs, in a way that I believe is often more neutral (e.g. not referring to a gaza genocide or a gaza famine when most English news sources don't do this) I think is exactly what editing Wikipedia is all about. I think if you look at my contributions on this topic you will see that I have done just that by trying to keep things factual and in this case, pinging interested editors to help Wikipedia remain factual and not promote what in this case (a Gaza genocide) is still a fringe categorization in English language reliable sources.
Statement by Wafflefrites[edit]I am one of the editors that Monolopy "canvassed". Here is the response I posted in the canvassed thread (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAllegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza&diff=1230684460&oldid=1230680601): "I will say that the list of people that Monopoly31121993(2) pinged in response is a wider net then the original poster's, and the list of people actually reflects a good variety of opinions/voting. Per WP:CANVASS "In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus." So Monopoly's intent does not seem to be to sway the discussion a particular way, but to increase the sample size of participants in the discussion to be more representative of the larger Wikipedia population and less skewed. In terms of battleground behavior, the I-P topic area does seem to have a lot of this behavior from both the "Pro-Israel"/"Pro-Palestinian" sides. I haven't been able tell which side Monopoly31121993(2) is on in the past, but I think he should probably take a break from Wikipedia and try to conduct himself more professionally based on the 20:11, 23 June 2024 diff. Also his comment on Xi re-writing Wikipedia is inaccurate because Wikipedia is blocked in China unless you are using a VPN. Not sure what an Arbpia 4 sanction is. Wafflefrites (talk) 12:56, 24 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by Iskandar323[edit]@User:Wafflefrites: As I have since responded in the relevant thread, the canvassing instance here is not of a form permitted or advocated for per WP:APPNOTE. Mass pinging of this nature is typically only done to call back editors from the same discussion or previous related discussions on the same talk page to review a development in a dispute. Appropriate alerts to garner more viewpoints should take the form of neutral messages on public forums or the talk pages of directly related articles, etc. Here, it cannot be readily ruled out that Monopoly saw an audience in an entirely separate discussion that he thought potentially sympathetic to a certain POV and pinged them on that basis. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by FortunateSons[edit]I don’t love the way the notifications were done (and then repeated) by any of those involved, but I think those deserve trouts at most, not warnings, as it’s closer to a good faith mistake than genuine harm, particularly as all seemed to have been made in an attempt to attract a larger but neutral audience. Not best practice, but not horrible either. The statements about the motives of others are an actual problem, but also a general problem in this topic area. While it would have been better to go their talk page first, I think that an admin-issued warning to AGF might do some good to cut down on this sort of behaviour in this and other areas. FortunateSons (talk) 08:43, 24 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Monopoly31121993(2)[edit]
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Deadman137
[edit]| This is outside the scope of AE. General behavioral complaints not within the scope of a given contentious topic should be, if necessary, raised at WP:ANI. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:43, 29 June 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Deadman137[edit]
The user doesn't seem to be following WP:CIVIL as well and his behavior is close to WP:OWN. When I complained about his warning and his vandalism, he just ignored it.
Discussion concerning Deadman137[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Deadman137[edit]
Statement by Philipnelson99[edit]I just want to comment here that I don't think AE is the best place for this. I was reverted by Deadman137 a while back and I was confused why because they didn't explain but I asked on their page and they pointed out I made a mistake. Not sure why it's necessary to bring an editor to AE for that or why I was brought up here. Philipnelson99 (talk) 00:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Result concerning Deadman137[edit]
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Peleio Aquiles
[edit]| By consensus of administrators at this AE thread, Peleio Aquiles (talk · contribs) is indefinitely topic banned from the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 14:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Peleio Aquiles[edit]
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles
WP:CIVIL, WP:FAITH, and WP:BATTLE issues:
Incivil edit summaries:
None that I'm aware of.
I have some other concerns here, mostly relating to WP:OWN, but they would be difficult to articulate without getting into some details of the topic and its edit history. I can elaborate if it would be useful, but I figured the civility issues are more clear-cut, and might suffice to warrant action of some kind. There have been a few comments about my editing history. If admins feel that it's relevant, let me know and I'll address it more fully. Otherwise, I'll keep this brief to minimize distractions. Regarding my tag of Al Jazeera's live blog, WP:ALJAZEERA calls it a WP:NEWSBLOG following a recent RSP workshop. In any case, I think it's generally understood that live update feeds aren't good sources for factual information, and others have not questioned the tag. The other controversy Selfstudier mentioned, relating to the Flour massacre, is a bit more nuanced. If admins feel it's relevant, this was the most recent talk thread about it. — xDanielx T/C\R 01:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Peleio Aquiles[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Peleio Aquiles[edit]
Statement by Selfstudier[edit]Well, on the face of it, defendant should take a break, I would like to hear more about this. Selfstudier (talk) 16:21, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland[edit]I have a question. Regarding "If, as respondent says in their reply above, filer is a serial POV-pusher who abuses and distorts Wikipedia's rules to remove content that he dislikes, then respondent needs to provide diffs supporting this. To do otherwise is naked casting of aspersions, and that sort of thing is caustic in contentious topic areas." The filer has provided 11 diffs that show WP:CIVIL, WP:FAITH, and WP:BATTLE issues. This is treated as enough information to make a decision. Are 11 diffs also enough to demonstrate that someone is "a serial POV-pusher who abuses and distorts Wikipedia's rules to remove content that he dislikes", assuming the diffs were consistent with the claim? Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Thank you for responding Red-tailed hawk. I asked because it seems possible that both the filer and the respondent may take the view that the other party is not fully complying with the Universal Code of Conduct's prohibition against "Systematically manipulating content to favor specific interpretations of facts or points of view", but neither party has filed a case on that basis with sufficient evidence to demonstrate something like that, and I'm not sure I can even remember seeing a PIA related AE case like that. Even if it is not the case here, it is a common situation in PIA, and it's not entirely clear why cases about bias are not filed. I'm not sure anyone even knows how to do it, hence my question. It's tempting to think it is because it involves too much work to compile the evidence, but people often submit a substantial amount of evidence to support their theories for SPI cases and often spend a lot of time explaining their views on talk pages. As recent PIA topic bans seem to show, this means that AE is largely limiting itself to handling speech rule violations, which are symptoms, rather than dealing with common causes like (mis)perceptions of bias, (mis)perceptions of agenda driven editing etc. And this creates asymmetries where what an editor says becomes more important to their ability to edit in the topic area than their impact on content, where speech becomes more important than a bias, where "manipulating content to favor specific interpretations of facts or points of view" has become normalized and is rarely, if ever, sanctioned. Sometimes article content ends up sort of vibrating between states as we all think we are fixing someone else's bias. This doesn't seem ideal. It would be good if it were as easy to address (mis)perceptions of biased editing here at AE as it is to address speech related violations. Sean.hoyland (talk) 07:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Statement by Longhornsg[edit]Plenty more examples of unhelpful WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior of the defendant, including claiming conspiracies on WP, removing sourced material because " it's irrelevant and of concern merely to pro-Israel propagandists", dismissing RS claiming they are "Israeli propaganda", and the list goes on. Longhornsg (talk) 04:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC) Result concerning Peleio Aquiles[edit]
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Shinadamina
[edit]| This matter is a content dispute. If parties cannot come to agreement, they are advised to utilize dispute resolution processes. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Shinadamina[edit]
The user doesn't seem to be following WP:CIVIL as well. Moreover, when I complained about his secret content removal, he/she just ignored it.[43]
Shinadamina claims that their 3 reverts are not a violation, however according to WP:CYCLE, he/she was supposed take it to talk page, after his/her edits being reverted. Morover, he/she keep misintreperting the sources. Neither US Congress, nor UK Parliament called Vardanyan a "political prisoner". A public speech by individuals is not statement by the entire organization. After being reported for misusing the sources, Shinadamina still keep doing it. Here[1], he/she added completely random link as a source.
Discussion concerning Shinadamina[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Shinadamina[edit]Actually action should be taken against @Aredoros87 because based on his edit history it is obvious that he is making biased edits to Azeri and Turkish subjects and negative edits to Armenian subjects. Please check the talk page of Ruben Vardanyan for the details. My edits have all been explained and proper sourcing used. Shinadamina (talk) 01:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC) All the edits I have made were done according to wiki policies. Let me respond to each concern:
In conclusion, all the edits I have made were done according to policies. I feel that here we have a pro-Azeri / pro-Turkish editor (@user:Aredoros87) who is accusing me of being biased, while himself is biased. All his edits have been to display the subject in a Negative light, which does not represent a Neutral Point of View. I think it is him who should be warned and not allowed to make further edits to this page. I also would like to Ping other active editors who made recent edits to this page to see what they think @user:Bager Drukit @user:Vanezi Astghik @user:Charles Essie @user:Timb1976 @user:Grandmaster Thanks. Shinadamina (talk) 03:20, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Also, regarding WP:CIVIL all I said was that his edits seemed to be biased. I have not been disrespectful to him at all. There were no personal attacks of any kind. Shinadamina (talk) 03:26, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Statement by Grandmaster[edit]Since I was pinged here, I will comment. Shinadamina, you removed multiple times official charges against Vardanyan. Whether those charges are right or wrong, or present the subject of the article in a negative light is beside the point. We cannot remove information just because it presents a person in a negative light. It is verifiable information, and the position of prosecution must be presented accurately, with attribution. Stating that Vardanyan is a political prisoner is not in line with WP:NPOV, it is the opinion of defense and certain other individuals. Opinions cannot be presented in a wiki voice, they must be properly attributed to the people that expressed them. You removed 3 times charges against Vardanyan, despite other users objecting. It is not acceptable. You need to discuss and reach consensus at talk first. Also, making personal comments about other users' motives is not acceptable per WP:AGF and WP:Civil. Grandmaster 13:31, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning Shinadamina[edit]
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