User talk:Yomangani/Archive 10

Westgate-on-Sea FAC

Thanks very much for providing those extra sources. Some more detail has now been added to the history section. Thanks. Epbr123 22:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Could you please review the article and let me know what else needs to be done. Thanks. Epbr123 09:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Some more detail has now been added to the culture section. Thanks. Epbr123 14:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Bill Johnston (cricketer) on DYK

Hey Yomangani. Seeing as you are online, what is your opinion about a 1800k article being expanded to 12800k being on DYK. Personally I have always allowed even 4k expansions up to 20k on DYK, and many others do as well, but Rigadoun is objecting. He did the same to Boosey and Hawkes and I picked it anyway, but I have a conflict of interest here and the clock is running down....Thanks, Blnguyen (cranky admin anniversary) 01:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd select it :) -- ALoan (Talk) 01:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, me too. It was very short, never been on DYK before and had massive expansion, can't see anything to object to. Yomangani^talk 01:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you move it for me? :) Blnguyen (cranky admin anniversary) 01:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, is it one of yours? Will do. Yomangani^talk 01:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Looks like ALoan beat me to it. Yomangani^talk 01:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, ALoan and Yomangani.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:46, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

TINC ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 01:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Can I prod you to take a look at Neil Harvey on T:DYKT? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

What does anybody think of putting Lady Godiva as the face of today's selected anniversaries? Too sensationalist? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:46, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, go on. -- ALoan (Talk) 01:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, especially if you use Collier's painting, it's very artistic (you can tell, the breasts follow you round the room) Yomangani^talk 01:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Seriously? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, why not? At worst it will bring out the "Wikipedia is a cradle of filth" brigade, and we just ignore them anyway. Yomangani^talk 01:56, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Done, let's see....Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:58, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha "Samuel Pepys (pictured)..." Yomangani^talk 02:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

He lost his eyesight, you know... -- ALoan (Talk) 15:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

List of mammals of Canada

Hello there, I thought your many list contributions were invaluable, cool to be able to make a script, so I put this one up for featured list nomination, as I thought it fir all the Featured list criteria... Thank you for from me anyways, I can withdraw the nom, but I don't know how. SriMesh | talk 04:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Dee

I do wish that you would have contacted me before this deletion. The section is a continuation of the previous, in which I corrected an error. Dee had nothing to do with Manchester Grammar School, but the institution he was appointed to has a connection with the buildings later associated with Chetham's Hospital (now the School of Music). There are several extant traditions in Manchester about Dee, mostly eronious. I have mentioned one of these traditions, and I think that it is appropriate for such an article. The section also contains a reference to an illustration in the article.

I have already posted this in the discussion section, and no-one has gainsayed it over a period of time. Please do not revert this again without contacting me first.

--Train guard 14:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Furry Critters

I've set up a discussion for furry critters right here as there's a few folk working on stuff 'round the place..feel free to add promising ones at the bottom so folk can jump right in....cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 23:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Birchington-on-Sea

I didn't see you had a lot of concurrent FAs - you've been having fun! Birchington has the same "in the day time" transport problem as the Westgate-on-Sea had, and although the Culture section starts well it dissolves a bit towards the end. I'll support it if you fix those. Yomangani^talk 15:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added some some more detail to the Culture section. Is it enough? Epbr123 23:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK update

Would you please promote the next update to DYK. It is already 10 hours overdue. There is a long backup. I just got done with the next update. I just asked User:Smurrayinchester, so please coordinate if you are available right now. Thanks! Royalbroil 16:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Did you know/Hall of Fame

Hi Yomangani. I created a DYK Hall of Fame (WP:DYK/HoF) as a result of the discussion above. I divided the tally categoriess into article content creation and into article content nomination. Would you mind (ugh!) redoing the DYK awards totals by (i) article content creation and (ii) article content nomination and placing the results on WP:DYK/HoF? Thanks! -- Jreferee 17:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you'd like to ask Anonymous Dissident to move his table, User:Anonymous Dissident/List of Wikipedians by number of DYKs, over. I don't really approve, as I think it is making it too competitive (despite the pleas not to think of it as a competition) which will probably lead to sinking standards (why spend days filling out an article when you can knock off three or four 1,500 character stubs and up your position in the table). Still, I guess I can't blame anybody but myself! Yomangani^talk 17:27, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I just posted a request on Anonymous Dissident's page. The DYK Hall of Fame is new and subject to ratification approval from the gang. I posted the ratification approval discussion here. I agree that the most important thing is amount of new content. If there were a way that we could crate a tally by amount of new (valid) DYK content added, that would be a great thing to enshrine. And yes, your prolificness seems to have generated competition (which I think is a good thing). -- Jreferee 17:34, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

TBH, I think it has grown too competitive myself. I really only wanted it for myself, but I guess I couldnt keep myself shut up there. Oh well, a little competition never hurt did it? As far as I can see, nominations for DYK have increased threefold, especially by Smee. Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Whitstable FAC

Hi. I just wondered if you would be willing to have a quick read through of the Whitstable article to see if there are any obvious problems with the prose. It needs to be looked at by someone with better writing skills than me. I would be very grateful if you could. Any other advice on how to improve the article would also be welcome. Thanks. Epbr123 08:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

A painting

If you have a book and an hour to spare for another painting article, you might look at Medusa (ship). Displeasingly, The Raft of the Medusa redirects to it, despite deserving its own page. This is in my impossible-to-do category. Marskell 08:52, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and the serial comma note was a joke, not a criticism. Marskell 09:02, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I got it, and, laughed. I'll add the The Raft to my list (An hour. I like your optimism). Yomangani^talk 12:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's funny about the laugh—when I noticed the edit summary I assumed I was being told off. But perhaps I'm becoming too fragile.

Anyhow, here's my 20 minutes: Raft of the Medusa. Perhaps I shouldn't have started per stubs-can-be-bad-as-much-as-good, but surely it needs a page.

Are you really intending to take 5 and 6k prose pages to FAC? Are there not enough cans of worms opened now? Marskell 20:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I have an old photo of me leaning against Gericaults tomb, which I can edit me out of - do you want me to scan and upload it?cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 21:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Leave yourself in, for colour ;). Any photo's a good photo if we don't already have it. Marskell 22:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

As a pitiful formalist, I believe length can't be a rule unless it's written down. He. No actually, it's comprehensiveness not length, and there shouldn't be a rule against it as such. I just worry about folks like Epbr, who dumped six shortish articles on FAC in a week. There is a gap, though, given that most DYKs are under 5k and FAs are at least 10, and we need to encourage lengths in-between. I have argued (with little success) that GA should be focused on short articles, which was as WorldTraveller intended it. Marskell 07:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the DYK. I didn't want to take it there without sources. Marskell 19:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Strolling Actresses Dressing in a Barn

On 9 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Strolling Actresses Dressing in a Barn, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 17:28, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

German translation

Oh ok, I'll bear that in mind. And, as for your second question -- Google auto translates any german sites I use. Kind regards, Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah! Thanks for fixing up the ship names on that article. Much appreciated. Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, in recent times I have become more than aware of the faults of the Google translator. Perhaps both titles are accpeptable? That would not be uncommon. As for the two phrases you pointed out - I'll get straight to work on that. Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:23, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I have made some slight alterations to the phrases you pointed out. Are the changes adequate, do you think? Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Also note that Brandenburg Navy now redirects to Kurbrandenburgi Navy. Or should it be the other way around? Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I see the point - I was, infact, trying to convey the fact that the disuse of the ships brought about the dissolution of the fleet, but it proved difficult to use "lack" twice in a correct format. I'll try and rework the sentence. Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

All fixed (so simple). Yes, if you wouldn't mind - I think Brandenburg Navy is how it properly comes out in English. Thanks, Anonymous Dissident ^Utter 01:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Caves of Nerja

On 12 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Caves of Nerja, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 06:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Fidel doesn't like Thomas Cooke!

I actually don't think he cares, and Raul is sympathetic. See Thomas Cooke (1703–1756), because the last line of the article does, in fact, convey the sort of thing that Raul was famously moved to pity by. Geogre 19:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Featured Picture Help

Haya - you had recently suggested I submit to the Wikipedia Picture of the Day/Featured Picture track, but it appears that I need to be nominated; I can't really do that myself, can I? Can you assist me with this process? I created a much better edit of the image "Whiteshark-TGoss5" called "5b", which I've replaced in every instance of the old edit (that I could find). (How do I delete/replace an image in the Commons? I want the original one gone!)

Thanx much, pterantula 12 June 2007

Here we go again...

Here we go again, though I am surprised this is here as I'd have thought there were FAs in worse shape. cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 03:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Raft of the Medusa

Did you know? was updated. On 14 June, 2007, a fact from the article Raft of the Medusa, which you recently nominated, was featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 02:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Pietro Cardinal Boetto

Did you know that Italy did not win the Second World War?

When you recently updated DYK with a mention of Pietro Cardinal Boetto, and said that his actions "assured the divine triumph of Italy"... it looks bad. DS 12:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, it didn't actually say they won. I assumed it was a little bit more poetic than it appears with the Time quote (and perhaps they did secure the "divine" triumph, who can say). Yomangani^talk 13:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I cherry-picked that quote out because juxtaposed against the actual result of the war, it was rather ironic. Anyway, I came over here to tell you that you don't have to use multiple instances of {{UpdatedDYKNom}}. Instead just keep tacking on additional articles, like {{subst:UpdatedDYKNom|Article 1|Article 2|Article 3}}. Regards, howcheng {chat} 16:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

For the future

I like working on collabs so I've made a bit of a standing list here as a subpage of my userpage, just in case one comes up to collaborate on in the future if you think I'll like it too. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Additonally, wanna put yer 2c in here? cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Inaugural games of the Flavian Amphitheatre

On 16 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Inaugural games of the Flavian Amphitheatre, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 02:48, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Hi. Please hold off on the Scientology-bashing and POV-pushing on the front page. I just addressed that on ANI and, while I thought I was mistaken, I see that a non-bashing bit was allowed to expire while we push in another bash. Hold off - I will address this. Thanks. --Justanother 14:50, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Will you please replace the non-bashing Scientology DYK to the next update. The editor put a lot of effort into creating a nice article. Thanks. And sorry for losing my temper but I have seen this POV-pushing and WP:COATRACK via DYK by User:Smee about 35 times in recent months. --Justanother 15:16, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. --Justanother 15:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

• Diff 1, Diff 2, edit-warring on the Next Update page by Justanother (talk · contribs · page moves · block user · block log · rfcu), and highly-inappropriate edit summary usage like: "knock it the fuck off" -- Is there to be no consequences whatsoever for this sort of behaviour? Curious. Smee 02:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC).

• Yes, I got a warning. Now, what about an extremely experienced DYK editor lying to get another POV push on DYK? I refer, of course, to Smee (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), formerly Smeelgova (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), an editor with an incredible history of WP:TE, referring to this version of an article (2795 main-body chars, including spaces) as a stub (diff) in order to load yet another WP:COATRACK on the Wikipedia front page. Smee's nom version had only 4729 main-body chars (including spaces), certainly not a 5-fold increase (not even a two-fold increase) and Smee well knows the rules. What about that? A sneaky, calculated lie and abuse of the process and of the goodwill and trust of the DYK admins; certainly more egregious than my dropping an f-bomb in a moment of upset over that selfsame lying and POV-pushing. --Justanother 13:02, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

• I think it would be a good idea if you both knocked it off. Smee was quite happy to let the article in question go once it was pointed out it didn't qualify, though it would have been better all round if the disqualifying criterion had been pointed out earlier. Justanother was warned by me for the removal of the article from Next Update, and apologised above. I placed the expired article on DYK with no influence from Justanother (we quite often put up articles relying on primary sources, and while it is not the ideal situation, I don't think we should give the appearance of bias just because of the contentious subject matter. That said I won't be making a habit of it). As long as Smee continues to submit articles that fit the criteria we will continue to feature them in DYK. If Smee has an agenda and the articles are "Scientology-bashing" articles, and they can not be rewritten to be neutral in tone, then there is a process for having them removed from the encyclopedia. That process is not DYK. Justanother, I suggest you turn your attention to the quality of the articles rather than accusing Smee of attempting to subvert the DYK process for nefarious ends. Smee, if the articles can be seen as attack articles maybe you should question the choice of title and/or the range of sources. Seeing as you are both interested in the same subject you should be working together to ensure the articles on that subject give an objective view. If that is not possible then maybe you should both turn your attentions to other topics. Yomangani^talk 13:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

• Thank you. I appreciate the advice, and your actions in this matter. As for the articles themselves, I hope you have seen in the past, and I will do so in the future, that articles I have created from scratch are sourced to multiple secondary citations. And articles I expand are expanded upon with citations from secondary sources. Smee 10:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC).

Wart on Wharton

Check the article tonight (US east): Philip Wharton, 1st Duke of Wharton will be filled in extensively. I'm interested to note that our current article on his father is rather small and stubby, and "Honest Tom" was quite a jerk. In fact, you can understand "Philip James" better by getting a sense of what a conniving, greedy, Puritanical guy Tom was. (P. W. renamed himself Philip James Wharton in honor of the Pretender.) Geogre 18:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

• So I got sidetracked, so sue me. Philip Warton, 1st Duke of Wharton (and last duke, too) is done now. There weren't any significant errors in the previous article, but the DNB folks were expansive, so I've tried to boil them and render them fit for us. Geogre 13:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Oh dear, he did get himself in a bit of a pickle, didn't he? Yomangani^talk 22:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:RFA

The fact that you messsaged me tells me two things: that you have had past experience with this user and that you care about whether he passes. Your judgement has been, in the entirety of my past of Wikipedia, completely sound. I have looked at the RFA. I have decided to change my !vote. I just want to know one thing: wouldn't your message sort of be considered canvassing? I don't care myself, and I see that you havent posted to anyone else with the same message, I just thought that it may render my support weightless if someone discovered it on my talk page. Oh well. Thanks for the message. It has encouraged me to look at an RFA which currently looks as if it needs every support, and no more opposes, to come back to the 75%. It also does look at the RFA of a person who probably does need the tools, and who has made some great contributions (6 Featured articles; quite the accomplishment). Best Regards, -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk -- (dated 23:11, 16 June 2007 UTC)

The deed has been done. Regards, -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk -- (dated 23:18, 16 June 2007 UTC)

I see your point, both on canvassing and on the argument. I'll try not o use the argument; we need more admins, and that reason to oppose seems contradictory to that. -- Anonymous Dissident^Talk -- (dated 04:19, 17 June 2007 UTC)

The Gate of Calais

On 17 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Gate of Calais, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 06:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Bishzilla eat cat

Thank you for cat, little user! [1] See how cool article 'zilla create! Steal text in 'shonen sandbox, he he. [Mischievous dino laugh makes little Yomangani fall over from the tornados created]. Lots of verbs! 'zilla mainspace skills! bishzilla _ROARR!! 17:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC).

Hmm, I'll pass on the thanks next time, too violent for my tastes. Plenty more unwanted moggies at Cats for digestion. Yomangani^talk 22:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

List of birds of Gibraltar

Excellent article, good work! Chris Buttigieg^talk 14:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Commas or parentheses for scientific name in opening sentence and elsewhere

(Now that was a long header wasn't it?) There's a debate here about commas versus parentheses for scientific names for organisms (well in this case birds). I'm not sure whether this has been raised elsewhere but would be good to establish once and for all here and could apply as MOS across all biology articles. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The Highfield Mole

On 19 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Highfield Mole, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

I went and requested that my local library purchase this book. :) --howcheng {chat} 00:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I hope they get one of the new versions and don't waste your taxes on a first edition. Although it would probably be a good investment. Yomangani^talk 01:02, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Review + leaving

I'll try to look at your FAC tomorrow. You're nominating so much, no one can keep up! I don't think it's the serial comma reducing comments--in fact, the problem may be one of glut. There's too many nominations relative to serious reviews done. There's no workable way to enforce it, but I'd almost like "review three in entirety, then nominate one" or some such, as a rule. I could review more, actually.

"Leaving seems to be the in-thing..." Isn't it always the in-thing? Wiki retirements are like political retirements in that they always follow some obvious setback, and they happen every other day. (I see badlydrawnjeff is now redlinked after an arb case, which is a blow to the FAs.) There's meatball essays on this. RewardReputation ceases to be enough for most after 2 or 3 years on payless, often difficult processes. In fact, if you don't up and quit after 3 years, there's probably something wrong with you ;).

Sandy has been averaging 2,000 edits-a-month for more than a year—too much, IMO, if you're not actually a bot. And she's often doing gnome stuff that no one else is fastidious enough to keep on top of. And she's often treated as a punching bag for no reason. I do hope it's another recharging matter. (I'm still here, for those concerned.) Marskell 21:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The Editor's Barnstar

		The Editor's Barnstar
		I noticed that your edits were impressive and so I've decided to award you this Editor's Barnstar! Wikidudeman (talk) 05:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Yomangani^talk 16:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Pygmy Blue Whale

On 20 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Pygmy Blue Whale, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 12:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Sure, sorry! Adam Cuerden ^talk 11:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

BBC2/BBC4 documentary on An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump

BBC2/BBC4 documentary on An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump. Well, not on the Wikipedia article, but more on Joseph Wright of Derby and his paintings, and the whole Enlightenment and science thing. Very interesting. It was on last night. See the BBC4 website page on the programme. That page links to the Wikipedia article on Wright, but not the article on the painting. Do you think mentioning the documentary in the Wikipedia articles might be OK, or is that too much like trivia? Carcharoth 12:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Hopefully they will repeat it when I get back - I see ALoan has added a note in the article about the "skull" as a result of watching it.I think it would be a bit circular to add the BBC programme, like saying there have been many books written about the painting and listing those in the references. (Nice to see our Joseph Wright of Derby article was broken too!) Yomangani^talk 13:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, he added a note inside HTML comments, so it is not visible in the article. Hope you manage to catch a repeat show. Carcharoth 13:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

To swap strands from the discussion on my talk page, I added note about the lung commented out because I think we need a proper source - the show also mentioned that some think it is a skull. I deliberately added the other note, about the moon, in a weaselly way - it seems pretty obvious, but again a proper source would be great.-- ALoan (Talk) 14:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Pretty much anybody who comments on it says it is a skull, but I've never been that convinced (it does look as if there is a big slice of lemon in there though). Ben Woolley, who I assume was doing all the talking, wrote a book on my other favourite John Dee, but I don't know that he's done anything on Wright. Yomangani^talk 14:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Dolly

I thought the word "dolly" meant a "prostitute". Bielle 15:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but it doesn't make that much sense in that context, seeing as how they already were, unless it was term for street prostitution (as opposed to the lovely courtesans housed at Needham's fine establishment). The connection to bail made me think it was perhaps a term for something in prison or a punishment of some kind. You can have ½ point though. Yomangani^talk 15:16, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Tom King's Coffee House - just wow. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well, we desperately need Will's Coffee House and Button's Coffee House, too. A better class of whore at those two, according to Dean Swift. (And I love that Needham "got evaluated" by a passive voice that gave it a B. That's awfully sweet of it "to have done." I wonder if the article "was read" at the same time? I wonder if the one who "evaluated" it also "had known" how many sources there are for the life and "had assessed" in that context, or if it "had evaluated" merely its length or "had counted" footnotes or something?) (Dean Swift tells me I shouldn't go so lightly on people who hide their hubris with -bots.) (Just reading his "On the Importance of The Guardian," which tears Mr. Steele a new one in the middle of his forehead, and for less pride than that exhibited by our Sir Passive Voice.) Geogre 02:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Geogre being Geogre. B class is the highest a Bio can be rated unless it's been through GAC, FAC, or an A-class review. If you think I should have left it at Start class where I found it, by all means, downgrade it yourself. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

What? You mean you reviewed it? Well, that's a mystery solved, isn't it? There was a person involved? A bona fide expert on language who nevertheless chose a passive construction throughout and innocently invoked the review as if it were a thing of nature rather than the opinion of a single (sigh, just so busy) person? I see. No, that's so much better, and who am I to buck the rules of classifying and the regulations of projects that, no doubt, "have been determined" long, long ago by some wise force of nature. Sandy being Sandy, he or she managed not to read what I wrote or showed complete inability to understand my complaint. Geogre 11:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, if I got upset about ratings I would have left long ago. I've lost count of number of articles I've created with 95% of the information available to the general public that have been rated "start", presumably because "start" and "short" are considered synonyms in the world of ratings. I pay little or no attention to ratings: they are far too broad and rigid to be of any benefit to anybody as far as I can see. They'd be next to useless even the madness of assessment by bot didn't exist. Sandy doesn't have to do the pre-preparation for the article history bot, it's an crap job that nobody else wants to do, so you shouldn't really get on her case for upping the rating from "start" (I think even just reading the FAC nom would reveal it isn't start class); if B is the highest it can be without some sort of formal process it show the failings in the rating system, rather than anything else. Basically we're saying it can be "start" or "B" unless it undergoes review, and when we are struggling to find reviewers that doesn't leave a lot of leeway. I didn't even know there was an A-class review; I bet we don't have many A-class articles (how many people actually bother with stopping for an A-class review between GA and FA?).

I've got a little info on both Will's and Button's (including some illustrations), I might get round to them next week. Yomangani^talk 12:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Will's Coffee House is awful. It seems to be dilettante, at best. Then again, it requires a lot of reading to get anywhere. These are intractable subjects. Utgard Loki 17:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

We should scrap both A class and Start, the first as duplication and the second as mis-labelled. We need something like "reasonable post-stub" class, to encourage people to take those one sentence numbers (which often shouldn't have been created in the first place) to a decent 4 or 5k prose. On some taxa, for instance, you're never going to get an article any larger than that, but it's wrong to call it "start" if you've actually polished the 5k with what info you can (I'm happy with this little page, for example).

Anyhow, congrats on the latest one Y. You're making the rest of us look bad. Marskell 12:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't expect you'd concern yourself over a silly Project assessment, but it didn't make sense to leave the article at Start class, so I raised it as high as the Bio project allows. Not that it matters much, since it will be FA soon enough anyway. Congratulations on another fine article. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:00, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't pay any attention to the classifications, obviously. I don't believe in them or believe that they have any meaning. I certainly wasn't criticizing them. After all, "who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?" No. Those lovely examples of unmitigated, unapologetic pride involved in the cowardice of the passive voice are another thing altogether. They are attempts at power, the delivery of self-admiration, and abominable. Although anyone who has been here for a while knows that the regulations, taxonomies, and the like are meaningless when it comes to the quality of the article, Wikipedia is always composed of 50% newbies (and that's a low mark) who take things literally. That 50% will, if they can possibly decipher the passives, begin to think that there is a Voice of Fact out there, somewhere, with power. This will be someone who must be brought a shrubbery. It's pride that I find so objectionable. It's attempts at power that I find vicious. It's the emphasis on colors, spaces, and forms (either in classification tickets or MoS change to update 8.9, etc.) that I find counter-productive.

In this case, something wonderful has happened. A feigned impersonal force dripping passive voice constructions has turned out, after all, to be a person operating at the height of her or his understanding of rules that he or she feels are important. That, at least, beats the hell out of "this has been rated." Geogre 12:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure. Marskell 13:09, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and White's Chocolate House is a bit harder to research, but White's was the rage for a time, too. "Chocolate" took the town. It was more what we would now call "hot chocolate" or "cocoa," and people "drank" it. It was also largely unsweetened, so the beverage was loaded with caffeine, somewhat bitter, and very high calorie. In other words, it was addictive.

Wait. I mean it was discovered to be addictive as it was comprised of high amounts of caffeine and possessed a high caloric value. There. Now no one can question it, and it's beautiful prose. (Surely a writing expert knows that passives "are deprecated.") Geogre 02:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Featured Picture

Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:White shark.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Raven4x4x 05:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, and thanks for nominating it. Raven4x4x 05:19, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Returning the favour

I've supported your latest. Again, good work. Do you mind hitting the bottom of WP:FAR to check a couple for kp or rm? We have about six indeterminate ones that have been up quite a while. Cheers, Marskell 10:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 24 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Robert Clark (biologist), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 16:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you help me?

cAN YOU HELP ME OUT AND LIKE HELP ME? i NEED HELP AND YOU ARE AN ADMIN AND I NEED HELP NOW. need help! help need help HELP.  *BloodSpiller*^Wassup 02:04, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 25 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Magpie Duck, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 15:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:Rufous Whistler

Thats ok -- theres still at least 150 characters juice I can suck out of my main source. Thanks for the copyedit. Regards, Anonymous Dissident^Talk 21:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• • It is now over 1500 characters for sure. Thanks, Anonymous Dissident^Talk 06:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Gate --> gait

Gawd. I should edit sober more.

Thanks for the go over. I may remove that para you tagged--I don't want to encourage killing the poor things. Marskell 16:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Napoleon Crossing the Alps

Bonjour Yomangani

Merci de m'indiquer ces deux reproductions qui sont effectivement trés utiles, c'est celles qui manquaient justement, maintenant la série est complète (je viens de faire une galerie sur commons pour classer les différentes reproduction du portrait

.

Et félicitation pour la traduction de l'article, c'est parfait (2 petites précisions: le prénom de la fille de David est Pauline Jeanin et l'ambassadeur d'espagne est Ignacio Muzquiz) Cordialement Kirtap 17:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Tom King's Coffee House

On 27 June, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Tom King's Coffee House, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 18:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK repeated?

This hook:

• ...that Kannada is the only language in which a Jain version of the epics Ramayana and Mahabharata exists?

seems to have appeared twice on DYK. Even the DYK archive seems to have this hook twice. Can you please check this... - Amarrg 12:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Thanks!--Legionarius 17:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Joshua A. Norton

I know I've seen sources that describe the relationship between Norton and the two dogs, but I couldn't find it at the current time. I have rephrased the sentence, and added the appropriate citation to go along with it. Nishkid64 (talk) 23:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Inter Continental Battling Morphologies

Um, no biggie, but on Needham, uh, do you want so-called British orthography and grammar or so-called American? I ask because there seems to be some inconsistency. You know, I'm sure, that I would not give a fig for either's claims to rectitude, except that I have the right and responsibility to whip my own students liberally for not following "American" standards. (Other than spelling and the infamous date format, there is the question of the comma and/or period's placement with closing quotations. E.g. British: "Most men mistake grammar for style, as they mistake correct spelling for words or schooling for education". (Samuel Butler the lesser, The Way of All Flesh) American: "I can see through a millstone, though I can’t see through a spelling-book." (Sojourner Truth) The same with the comma: Americans put the comma inside the closing quote, and Brits put it outside. There is even a logical reason for this divergence of practice, and, according to John Algeo and Thomas Pyles, it has to do with printing presses and Yankee ingenuity.) Just a question, not a big deal. Geogre 01:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I normally use "British", any inconsistencies are probably down to typos or sloppy editing. Feel free to correct them as I undoubtedly will miss them if I look. I'd be surprised if there were full stops/periods inside quotes: for some inexplicable reason I'm quite blind to aluminum, color and the serial comma, but full stops inside quotes make a noise in my head like fingernails scratching a blackboard. Yomangani^talk 01:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I feel the same way, only in reverse. If they're outside, it bugs me, even though I know that our poor cousins in the British printing trade simply weren't clever enough to know better. :-) I think I can read with an eye toward "British" standards. (I'll tell you what will get me hopping mad: an American writing "grey." I literally threw away Charles Frasier's Cold Mountain, because here was some average dude from Raleigh, North Carolina who had only one adjective in his arsenal, and it was misspelled to be more fey. I think, when I threw it away, I muttered something like "Southern Ulysses, my ass!") Geogre 13:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)