User talk:Legendt9455

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Hello, Legendt9455!

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Happy editing! Cheers, Theroadislong (talk) 17:08, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr. has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr.. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:32, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Robert E. Bourke Jr. (February 12)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dan arndt was:

The content of this submission includes material that does not meet Wikipedia's minimum standard for inline citations. Please cite your sources using footnotes. For instructions on how to do this, please see Referencing for beginners. Thank you.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr. and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Dan arndt (talk) 02:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Legendt9455! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Dan arndt (talk) 02:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dan - Thank you. I will edit the submission as you suggest for inline citations. 2600:8800:A800:B2A:1E3F:8BC2:60DB:CE6C (talk) 16:49, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Robert E. Bourke Jr. (March 9)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Qcne was:

The content of this submission includes material that does not meet Wikipedia's minimum standard for inline citations. Please cite your sources using footnotes. For instructions on how to do this, please see Referencing for beginners. Thank you.

The comment the reviewer left was:

A more user-friendly tutorial for learning how to use in-line citations is at WP:INTREFVE.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr. and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Qcne (talk) 20:10, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your prompt reply! Your comments are the same as the previous reviewer in February. As a consequence, I am confused about the specific issue as I spent quite a bit of time reformatting and editing all the inline citations and References (Notes) to resemble those I see in your published articles.

Does your concern relate to Reference verifiability? Source reliability? Citation density? the "References (Notes) section? or the Bridges book which was self-published? the Crippen oral interview? Or something I have entirely missed?

I am happy to make any further necessary changes to the proposed article, or answer any questions!

Thank you,

Richard Bourke 2600:8800:A800:B2A:DC32:7C0D:D0CC:6BEA (talk) 16:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Richard,

It's something completely else: you have not used proper in-line citations. If you check, for example, the Henry Ford article you will see that there are little in-line citations sprinkled throughout the text: the blue ^[1]s and ^[2]s and so on which are hyperlinked, so when you click on them they direct you to the associated reference in the reference list. This is because all these citations have been created using the special Wikipedia format.

You have tried to add citations into your draft manually, by just adding the citation numbers in parenthesis. Your reference list is also then in plain text so not linked to the citations, and missing the formatted source data. Unfortunately this isn't how we cite on Wikipedia.

It is going to be fairly easy, but a bit time consuming, to fix:

Edit your draft using the visual editor.
Where you have the first manual citation, (1), delete it and click the Cite button.
The cite addition box will pop up, and will allow you to enter the citation details. This will automatically generate both a proper in-line citation and an associated reference at the bottom of the draft.
Repeat this for the rest of the citations.

The tutorial at WP:INTREFVE will explain this in detail.

Let me know if you have any questions or need any help with this. Qcne (talk) 21:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your detailed and helpful reply!

I'll try to correct the article as you suggest next week. 2600:8800:A800:B2A:3D3A:A453:979C:2BA7 (talk) 16:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've started to modify the inline citations and will hopefully get this done in the next week or so. Legendt9455 (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do I cite a reference which is a PDF of an oral interview? It was recently digitized by the Benson Ford Research Institute at the Henry Ford Museum, and is not available online yet, so there is no URL. I have a hard copy of the interview, as well as the PDF which was sent to me. The Research Center cites it as "Acc. 91.1.1673 Automotive Industry Design Oral History Collection". I also have specific pages of the interview to cite. Legendt9455 (talk) 16:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Legendt9455. We wouldn't be able to accept an upload of a PDF, and you should only cite documents that are published (even if they are only published offline). Has this interview been published as some kind of document by the Institute? i.e. is it available hard-copy from the Institute. If so, cite it as an offline document.

There isn't yet an easy way to cite offline documents in the Visual Editor (you could try Cite > Manual > Basic Form but it might not have all the fields you need). There is a markup code for citing offline documents here, though: Template:Cite_document.

Let me know if you have any questions. Qcne (talk) 17:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The document is an archival material and not published. The two URL's take you to PDFs. However, it is available as a hard bound document (PDF), so I can cite it as an offline document. Their citation recommendation is - Accession 91.1.1673 Automotive Industry Design Oral History Collection, Robert E. Bourke. Benson Ford Research Center, The Henry Ford. Is this acceptable? Should I also include the URL which takes you to the hard copy PDF? Legendt9455 (talk) 16:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is probably an acceptable reference - I presume a reader would be able to ask the Benson Ford Research Center for a copy, so it is "published" in that sense. But don't link the Google Drive URL itself. You could link to the Benson Ford Research Center instead. Qcne (talk) 12:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Another question: I tried using "re-use" on a citation but I changed the pages referenced. When I finished the citation used the same reference number as the earlier cite (1), when it is actually #19. I assume I cannot use "re-use" if the page # is different, correct? Also, how do I delete a hyperlinked cite if I want to change it to conform to the proper reference numbering. Legendt9455 (talk) 18:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just successfully discarded the edits!

Still have question about using "re-use" if it is the same reference but different page number. Legendt9455 (talk) 18:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey again @Legendt9455. The Visual Editor isn't yet great at handling the re-use of the same reference where you are citing different pages.

Two options: 1) manually create new references each time you cite a different page(s). Follow Cite > Manual > Book > and then find the Page(s) cited field. This would work fine, you'll end up with lots of similar references at the bottom but as long as the Page(s) cited field is accurate they'll all show the different page numbers.

2) you could look at WP:CITEPAGE which has instructions on how to cite in Wikimarkup, the code language articles are based on behind the scenes. This may be a little difficult though.

Hope that helps, let me know as always if you have any issues. Qcne (talk) 12:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On May 6th I submitted my article Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr, and have not yet received a reply. Could it take another several weeks for the review to be completed? Thank you! Legendt9455 (talk) 18:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Legendt9455, unfortunately the backlog is about three months and submissions are not reviewed in any particular order.

If I have time I'll have a look this weekend. Qcne (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your prompt reply! Legendt9455 (talk) 18:40, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr. has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr.. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:00, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I will try to go through the submission and follow your suggestion for limiting to 1 or 2 cites. 2600:8800:A800:B2A:88B2:8364:CD7B:6589 (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will make the suggested revisions this week. 2600:8800:A800:B2A:85E2:F3F:D9C4:22F8 (talk) 18:14, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I delete unnecessary inline cites, will they be deleted from the footnotes and will following inline cites automatically renumber, in the text and the footnotes? Or do I need to do all this manually? Legendt9455 (talk) 18:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have completed reducing the # of cites as you asked. 2600:8800:A800:B2A:E4CF:A09C:AC20:65D2 (talk) 16:17, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Robert E. Bourke Jr. (September 3)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SafariScribe was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr. and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naturally, I am very disappointed that the submission of Robert E. Bourke Jr. was rejected. Was the rejection due largely to lack of “independent” references? If so, is the Oral History done in Dearborn in 1986 considered not independent? I assume the piece Robert Bourke wrote in Automobile Quarterly is not considered independent, correct?

If these references were entirely deleted, and the submission changed accordingly, would the submission become more acceptable? 2600:8800:A800:B2A:4D36:AF33:1E9F:13BB (talk) 16:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Legendt9455, do not log out of your Wikipedia account inorder to answer or edit here. If it was by mistake, nessun problema. I will provide time to show you how WP:LOTSOFSOURCES doesn't help, in reference to the sources used in your draft. Cheers! Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 17:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I remain logged in. Please clarify your response regarding my inquiry about editing the submission by deleting the oral history and bourke article references, and modifying text where needed. Will this improve chances of acceptance? 2600:8800:A800:B2A:297F:91C2:5F04:9B32 (talk) 16:34, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, I was not logged in just now. Please clarify your response regarding my inquiry about editing the submission by deleting the oral history and bourke article references, and modifying text where needed. Will this improve chances of acceptance? Legendt9455 (talk) 16:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to correct the concerns about this submission and previously asked a couple questions about deleting the two references (oral history and bourke article) which may not be considered "independent", and editing the text as appropriate. Would this be helpful? Legendt9455 (talk) 21:30, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On September 3 you rejected my submittal regarding Robert E. Bourke Jr. for lack of "sufficient secondary sources 'independent' of the subject." I am asking you to reconsider this decision in light of the following information.

Another highly respected automotive designer, Virgil Exner, who was a contemporary of Robert E. Bourke Jr, has a Wikipedia entry. His entry includes several references including an oral history done by his SON, an Automobile Quarterly article written by Robert E. Bourke Jr., a New York Times article, and several articles in automobile magazines, including Hemmings. All told, about 10 references, and one item in the Bibliography.

The submittal for Robert E. Bourke Jr. has references including a full length book about him (including testimonials from the most highly respected automotive journalists), an oral history from Robert E. Bourke Jr. himself, a Time magazine article, and several articles in automobile magazines. All told about 10 references, as well as six additional Bibliography items.

I do not believe that the Virgil Exner entry and my submittal differ in any meaningful way! In fact, I would argue that Robert E. Bourke’s automotive design legacy is cemented by 1) The 1953 Studebaker being the only US production automobile ever displayed in the Museum of Modern Art, and 2) His being honored by the Society of Automotive Engineers as being one of the five most influential automotive designers of the 20th Century. His team was also largely responsible for the 1949 Ford, the car “which saved an empire.” His additional transportation design accomplishments are evidenced by the Paris Louvre displaying his 35-tom off-highway Mack Truck design.

In light of the above, I ask you to please reconsider your earlier decision. Legendt9455 (talk) 22:46, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AfC notification: Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr. has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Robert E. Bourke Jr.. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 10:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

Hi Legendt9455! The thread you created at the Teahouse, Notability of subject based on sufficient secondary sources independent of the subject, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.

You can still read the archived discussion. If you have follow-up questions, please create a new thread.

See also the help page about the archival process. The archival was done by lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by KiranBOT, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=KiranBOT}} on top of the current page (your user talk page). —KiranBOT (talk) 17:45, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]