User talk:Ironbrew

Are you coffeemaker? -m — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.30.47 (talk) 14:56, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

No, I'm just Ironbrew.--Ironbrew (talk) 15:08, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Welcome from Redwolf24

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We as a community are glad to have you and thank you for creating a user account! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
• Picture tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Naming conventions
• Manual of Style
• Merging, redirecting, and renaming pages
• If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Wikipedia:Topical index.

Yes some of the links appear a bit boring at first, but they are VERY helpful if you ever take the time to read them.

Remember to place any articles you create into a category so we don't get orphans.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome.

Redwolf24 (Talk) 04:19, 22 July 2005 (UTC) The current date and time is 22 December 2024 T 07:37 UTC.

P.S. I like messages :-P

Edit summary protocol

Hi: Please avoid edit summaries that are critical of a person (such as "…after Emico's biased edit"). They violate our policy on civility and I would ask you to consider how you would feel if someone said that they did something "after Ironbrew's biased edit". You know that all articles related to INC are the subject of high emotion and we need to make conscious efforts to keep our discussions calm if we are to write the best possible articles. Please help with this. —Theo (Talk) 18:41, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Emico's comment at INC

How does it help us to point out that Emico's already deleted edit "was definitely unfair and POV against those who disagree with the INC". It is one thing to point out why you wish to make a change to an article, but your post feels like an attack: "Let's hear what wrongheaded Emico has to say". I think that it is very important for us to be gentle with each other as we collaborate on this controversial topic. You were generous toward me when I made a mistake. Please extend that generosity to other editors. —Theo (Talk) 00:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I have no desire to belittle or insult another Wikipedia editor, but it is difficult for me to work with Emico and Glen Cessor due to their taunting and reckless use of labels, as well as posting harsher comments regarding my edits: (baselessly accusing me of being a sock puppet and speaking to me in a derogatory fashion, and Cessor referred to me as OTF with no evidence at all, which violates Wikiquette). I would appreciate if you could talk to them about refraining from those behaviours so that we can go forth in making this article an unbiased and legitimate source of information. Regards, Ironbrew.--Ironbrew 01:04, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I sympathise with your anger. I am trying to address inappropriate behaviours as they arise. It is important that we do do not compound the wrongs of others by misbehaving in turn. Keep doing the good things that you are doing. —Theo (Talk) 09:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for overwriting you last edit on the INC article. I've been busy trying to correct the grammar errors of these latests anon edits. At this point, I'll WP:AGF and assume they don't come from Emico, I've decided to keep some of the facts he brought, but keep focus on the section by removing redundancy and quotes that would make the article sound self-contradictory. --LBMixPro^{(Speak on it!)} 08:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

We'll see. One thing we can't do is assume every editor who edits the INC article is Emico. --LBMixPro^{(Speak on it!)} 02:46, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

User talk:80.58.4.107#Sockpuppet accusation: Your thoughts? I've notified all the sysops who were invloved in the INC article about this. I help edit his contributions, and I get a sockpuppet accusation in return. What's wrong here? --LBMixPro^{(Speak on it!)} 09:13, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I got the same "gift" from him too. Analyzing his edits, it seems that he believes wholeheartedly that you and I are out to "get the INC" and feels that he is doing right by "defending the INC against its enemies" no matter what tactics he uses. Oh my goodness- this is hilarious! Look who just vandalized my userpage! Special:Contributions/IMNOTEMICO--Ironbrew 18:31, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Editing userpages

Please refrain from editing other users userpages w/o good reason. Although you posted a sock puppet notice, they did they same to you. This makes it seem like neither is true. If you wish to leave a comment for someone, please do so on their talk page. Thank you. ∞Who?¿? 20:34, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I think that user:IMNOTEMICO is in fact a sockpuppet of Emico, who has been banned from editing some articles here due to his POV and rudeness towards others. He is the one who started the baseless accusations, and since I have proof that he is Emico's sockpuppet, I put the notice on his talk page.--Ironbrew 22:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

That's understandable, and I have been trying to go through the histories and talk with admins involved. It was better at the time to just remove both banners and notitfy both users. If you are having problems with another user, its better to ask for help from an admin, and Don't feed the trolls, it will save you some heartache, even if only a little. thanks for responding, and I will try to find out whats going on with the other user. ∞Who?¿? 22:13, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Let Bygones Be Bygones

This Resilient Barnstar is presented to Ironbrew from LBMixPro for the honorable act of admitting his sockpuppet status and sitting out of Wikipedia for the length of his Personal Attack ban afterward. May you continue to be a good contributer to Wikipedia. Rest assured, you are always welcomed at Wikipedia.

I accept. Please accept mine as well. Emico 17:25, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

If only that were true, I would have been pleased to.--Ironbrew 22:07, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar and Holy Edit Wars

Thanks so much for the comments and for doing what you did at the Bereans forum. But I can't help but be concerned about the direction the articles are about to turn. I recently read the anon's post about burying the hatchet, and the whole argument reminded me of the War on Terrorism.

Although everybody belives the radical muslims who bomb communities think of them as criminals, they fail to realize the terrorists did it to serve God. Although we're dealing with a different religion and a different location, it seems too similar. Someone has no knowledge of the laws and regulations of Jimmy Wales' website, makes edits which are blatanly against it. It seems that he doesn't care about the laws, he feels God has sent him specifically to save the Church from distortion, and would destroy everything which gets in his way. The people of the site believe he's out to ruin the integrity of it, in which he is, the attacks he maded only slowed progress with the site, as well as waste bandwidth and disk space. I'm here for Wikipedia. When I went to Wikipedia, I didn't do it because INC was there. I was registered at Wikipedia about 4 months before finding out about INC's article. INC is just another article, equally important. The only thing different is this article is prone to POV pushers, and clueless newbies. I care enough for this religion to contribute. I'm not editing the article for the INC, but at the same time, I am.

Although the article is about the INC, it's not made for it. I embrace the goal of this Encyclopedia, and the community behind it. But I'm not going to fight a holy war to defend this Wiki. Of course I'm not an expert, only minsters and high members are. But I know enough to make a useful contribution. If I didn't, I wouldn't have edited the article in the first place. Starbucks doesn't know me, he doesn't know my experiences with INC, but he commented as if he did. This is an enyclopedia which is designed for everybody to edit, completely against the view of Starbucks. But I'm not going to take the same road I took with Emico. I'm calling different channels, which are capable of explaining the intent of Wikipedia to people. If he wants to write a definite guide to INC, he can make a site of his own. But Wikipedia is not a place to put it. Starbucks doesn't own the article. INC doesn't own the article. I don't own the article. You don't own the article.

I can't stand the crap Starbucks throws at me, but after completely reading all the stuff he said today, (since the tension has gone down a bit) I'm going to cool off by leaving the article to only INC members, until the next Wikipedian comes and challenges his views. Hopefully it won't be a sysop. I don't know when I'll be back. But I have other articles, which are equally important as this one. All articles are equally important, and it pisses me off when someone tells me one article is less "serious" than another. They're a lot of wikipedians who make trivial edits to articles they believe have bad grammar. The problem will be when people like Starbucks attack them, because they don't see it as a grammar fix, but a twist to their doctorine.

Hopefully while I'm gone, you can help improve the article, at least to get that WP:V notice off the page. Until Ealva or Glenn comes back to the wiki and balance the integrity of the Wiki and the Iglesia. I can't deal with this problem alone, and I'm hoping people can get through to him. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 23:57, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad that you were able to tell it as it is, before the sysops found out. I'd hate to see what would have happened otherwise. Also that your part in all this is over with. That whole sockpuppet game was getting mass attention from sysops I don't even know. But at this point you could use either screen name. The webmaster doesn't mind, as long as they meet WP:SOCK guidelines. I can go on about my views and experiences with religion in general, but it would be just rambling. I find it more of a subject for general study, since most monotheistic churches worship the same creator. The difference between each is how they view events in the new testament, or even further back when Babylon drove Jesus' ancestors into exile.

Once again, If I haven't repeated it enough. (this is my last time, I swear!) I strongly believe the God INC worships is the same God which was mentioned in this article, or at least this one. That's the only God which the Old Testament focuses on. And if INC's belief is based solely on the both testaments of the Bible, then they must be talking about the God mentioned in those articles. What other God would INC worship? Buddha? Of course not! This was the point I tried to prove to Starbucks. I can't think for him, but the whole revert argument began when he noticed the term "catholic", and debunked the whole article ("redundant how? INC belief is different from mainstream, i.e. catholics god(jesus) died."). But the article itself confirms INC's view it its own section ("...a small fraction of Christians [INC] are unitarian monotheists. The vast majority of Christians [mainstream] have been and still are Trinitarian monotheists".). Strangely, this led to what you've seen in most of the neutrality section. It may be fair game in an INC-related debate, but it's not allowed at Wikipedia. WP:COOL is so much easier said than done. As my userpage states, I have a zero-tolerance policy on personal attacks of any kind.

On a personal note, I'm a political person who lives in America, a country where I'm given the right to choose my own religion. I cannot tolorate a church which discorages me to communicate with former members only because they thought of them as detractors (as if everything is about them). Yet alone seek out information so I can make an educated choice. I can't speak for everybody, but not every church has a perfect doctorine. If that were the case, we'd have Intellegent design taught in public schools.

Even though I have these feelings, being in INC has made me look into myself, and learn to respect all religions. How can a church, which (as far as Wikipedia is concerned) shows barely any signs of being a cult, be regarded by so many as one? It's not like they're putting the safety of their members in danger. As Ealva and Glenn described, the church also follows the spirit and word of the law. I greatly appreciate the members of INC who edit this article in a manner which is productive to the Wikipedia Foundation's goal in general. Maybe if the article stays in a positive direction, it may be released on the print version of Wikipedia, but we need the article fully cited, cleaned up and free of edit wars in order for that to happen. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 10:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

As far as Wikipedia's administration's concerned, Starbucks is another screen name belonging to Emico. It's obvious that his latest editing pattern matches or even exceeds the problems with Emico when he first came. People in Espraranza, who have nothing to do with the conflict, who have read the RFAr say it's him. I wish I can assume good faith in his edits, but his latest actions violated my trust in him. As far as Emico taking WP seriously, I doubt it'll happen. How can I put faith into someone who wrote this after finding out someone left WP? Maybe User:Starbucks is another defensive INC member who is acting on behalf of Emico. But I agree 100% that Emico is invloved in this. After all Starbucks, as well as User:BrewCoffee was created by Emico to parody your name. I don't think reasoning will no longer work. I told him I have nothing to say to him. He knows what he's doing, and there's no need to repeat anything. I'll just revert all his edits, since he is banned for being Emico after all. You can try to forgive and forget his actions of defending INC, but you can't do the same with his blatant disregard to WP's rules and authority, especially if he continues to do so after so many warnings. It's no longer about INC. I feel like making a drastic edit to the article, which I feel should have been done when Emico's ArbCom meeting ended. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 19:29, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

As for that drastic edit, be bold. ;)--Ironbrew 00:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I let Fred Bauder know about what has been going on. As I said before, blocks and bans won't work for Emico, since he refuses to use usernames. If anything needs to be done, it needs to be done at an article level, with more sysop supervision. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 20:14, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Welcome to Esperanza!

Welcome, Ironbrew, to Esperanza, the Wikipedia member association! As you might know, all the Esperanzians share one important goal: the success of this encyclopedia. Within that, we then attempt to strengthen the community bonds, and be the "approachable" side of the project. All of our ideals are held in the Charter, the governing document of the association.

Now that you are a member, you might be interested in some of our programs. A quite important program is the StressUnit, which seeks to support editors who have encountered any stress from their Wikipedia events, and are seeking to leave the project. So far, Esperanza can be credited with the support and retention of several users. A spam list is maintained by Redwolf24 to keep members up to date; you might want to consider adding your name to the list. Also, we have a calendar of special events, member birthdays, and other holidays that you can add to and follow.

In addition to these projects, several more missions of Esperanza are in development, and are currently being created at Esperanza/Possibles.

I encourage you to take an active voice in the running of Esperanza. We have a small government system, headed by our Administrator general, Essjay, and guided by the Advisory Committee comprised of myself, Flcelloguy, Ryan Norton, and Acetic Acid. The next set of elections will be at the end of the year, and I would be glad to see you vote, or even consider running for a position.

If you have any other questions, concerns, comments, or general ideas, Esperanzian or otherwise, know that you can always contact me via email or talk page. Alternatively, you could communicate with fellow users via our IRC channel, #wikipedia-esperanza (which is also good for a fun chat or two :). I thank you for joining Esperanza, and look forward to working with you in making Wikipedia a better place to be!

Bratsche^{talk | Esperanza} 13:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Iglesia ni Cristo

:I would recommend posting your concerns on the Administrators noticeboard page and see if they can help. They help with things like users trying to get around blocks. They are more experts at this than I am. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 10:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Iron, are you an sysop? I 'm thinking of blocking the disruptive anonymous user at the INC talk page. Have you requested a block? --Jondel 01:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm not. If there was a way for Wikipedia to make me a sysop for the four INC related articles, I would love that. Please also tell this to LBMixPro- he is a more seasoned user than I.--Ironbrew 06:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Well if you could build your edit, article counts e.g. you would have a good chance. Behaviour will be scrutinized especially you behave under attacks. There is list of criterias. I'll focus on that later.--Jondel 07:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Don't entertain the Trolls

I try not to feed trolls

A long time long time ago , in a galax.....
when I used to be an anonymous, my comments at various talk and discussion pages would be removed/reverted even if relevant. If a person is anonymous, they can not expect that much recognition. We shouldn't entertain them . I will be reverting or removing comments by anonymous people as appropriate.--Jondel 07:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

At this point please edit using your best judgement. Do not be intimidated or ascribe to ' What is your source?' . Treat this demands with a grain of salt. Better not entertain Trolls. If the user does not register, he is not willing to be accountable and we should treated as persona non grata. You may of course choose to allow his comments if obeys rules of wiki behaviour. I'm more of an editor than admin but I've been trolled a few times already.--Jondel 10:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

RFA

I've been nominated for RFA. Place your vote. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 21:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't know about the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy until you told me about it. That's why the Wikipedia policies exist, so issues like that don't happen. I hate when people misuse Wikipedia for the fun of it, there's already Uncyclopedia for stuff like that. The best model I see for a Wiki encyclopedia is User:Fred Bauder's Wikinfo, where anons aren't allowed. Although it isn't close to the popularity of Wikipedia. But that's the problem with having an encyclopedia where anybody even anons can edit. Of course, User:Jimbo Wales is now feeling the heat for it. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 21:42, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfA went thru.

My adminship request was successful!
Thank you Thank you so much for your support of my RfA. The results of the request was 18/0/1. With the help of your support vote, I am now a bona-fide Wikipedia sysop/admin. I pledge to use my newfound powers for the good of Wikipedia and its editors. If you have anything to tell me, dont hesitate to "speak on it"!. --LBMixPro<Speak|on|it!>

Esperanza elections

File:Voting box clipart.gif

Hi Ironbrew: This is a quick note just to let you know that there's an election under way at Esperanza. If you'd like to become a candidate for Administrator General or the Advisory Council, just add your name here by 15 December 2005.

Voting begins at 12:00UTC on 16 December and all Esperanza members are encouraged to join in.

This message was delivered to all Esperanza members. If you do not wish to receive further messages, please contact Flcelloguy. Thank you.

➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 09:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

News from Esperanza

Hello, fellow Esperanzians! This is just a friendly reminder that elections for Administrator General and two advisory council positions have just begun. Voting will last until Friday, December 30, so make sure you exercise your right to vote! Also, I'm pleased to announce the creation of the Esperanza mailing list. I urge all members to join; see Wikipedia:Esperanza/Contact for more information. All you need to do is email me and I will activate your account. This will be a great way to relax, stay in touch, and hear important announcements. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?)

This message was delivered to all Esperanza members by our acting messenger, Redvers. If you do not wish to receive further messages, please list yourself at WP:ESP/S. Thanks.

Blocked for 48 hours

Ouch. I just read the comment you wrote on Emico's talk page about rectracting your offer to help him:

"You are nothing but a petty liar and slanderer."

Please don't take it personally. But I have to be fair and follow ArbCom's wishes and respect your personal attack parole. I have no choice but to block you from Wikipedia for 48 hours. I see your the problem with Emico. I'm thinking of ways to deal with it, now that WP has new features which could help issues like anonymous edits. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 12:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, Anon's/Emico's actions speak for themselves. But usually when someone says "you're nothing but a..." it's easy to take it as a blunt insult. That's what I based my block on. Anyways, the block should have expired by now. You posted the message about two hours after the expiration time of the block. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 08:05, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: Emico

At this moment, I'm trying to focus on getting the article improved, as much as Jondel is. Have you tried taking the issue to WP:AN/I

An Esperanzial note

As I remember, the last spam that was handed out was on the 20th of December last year, so I think it's time for another update. First and foremost, the new Advisory Council and Administrator General have been elected. They consist of myself as Admin General and FireFox, Titoxd, Flcelloguy and Karmafist as the Advisory Council. We as a group met formally for the first time on the 31st of Decembe. The minutes of this meeting can be found at WP:ESP/ACM. The next one is planned for tonight (Sunday 29 January) at 20:30 UTC and the agenda can be found at WP:ESP/ACM2.

In other news, Karmafist has set up a discussion about a new personal attack policy, which it can be found here. Other new pages include an introductory page on what to do when you sign up, So you've joined Esperanza... and a welcome template: {{EA-welcome}} (courtesy of Bratsche). Some of our old hands may like to make sure they do everything on the list as well ;) Additionally, the userpage award program proposal has become official is operational: see Wikipedia:Esperanza/User Page Award to nominate a userpage or volunteer as a judge. Also see the proposed programs page for many new proposals and old ones that need more discussion ;)

Other than that, I hope you all had a lovely Christmas and wish you an Esperanzially good new WikiYear :D Thank you! --Celestianpower ^háblame 16:57, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Message delivered by Rune.welsh using AWB. If you wish to recieve no further messages of this ilk, please sign your name here.

Another Esperanzial note...

Hi again Esperanzians! Well, since our last frolic in the realms of news, the Advisory Council has met twice more (see WP:ESP/ACM2 and WP:ESP/ACM3). As a result, the charter has been ammended twice (see here for details) and all of the shortcuts have been standardised (see the summary for more details). Also of note is the Valentines ball that will take place in the Esperanza IRC channel on the 14th of February (tomorrow). It will start at 6pm UTC and go on until everyone's had enough! I hope to see you all there! Also, the spamlist has been dissolved - all Esperanzians will now recieve this update "newsletter".

The other major notice I need to tell you about is the upcoming Esperanza Advisory Council Elections. These will take place from 12:00 UTC on February 20th to 11:59 UTC on February 27th. The official handing-over will take place the following day. Candidates are able to volunteer any time before the 20th, so long as they are already listed on the members list. Anyone currently listed on the memberlist can vote. In a change since last time, if you have already been a member of the leadership, you may run again. Due to the neutrality precident, I will not vote for anyone.

Yours, as ever, Esperanzially,
--Celestianpower ^háblame 09:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
(message delivered by FireFox using AWB on Celestianpower's behalf)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #1

Reach out Reach out is a program aimed at allowing users to bring issues that they have had in Wikipedia to a listening, sympathetic and caring audience: "No one can know how we feel if we do not say. We cannot expect to get understanding if we do not ask for it. No one will dispute that sometimes life's issues are too much for one person. It is fair to say that sometimes Wikipedia's problems fall under the same heading. This is a place where you can bring the bruises that can sometimes be got on this project for attention." Stress Alerts The Stress alerts program aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them. Note from the editor Welcome to this new format of the Esperanza Newsletter, which came about during the last Advisory Council meeting - we hope you like it! The major changes are that each month, right after the Council meeting, this will be sent out and will include two featured programs and a sum up of the meeting. Also, it will be signed by all of the Advisory Council members, not just Celestianpower. Have an Esperanzial end of March, everyone!

The last AC meeting (full log) Future meetings are to be held monthly, not fortnightly as before. Bans and Access level changes (apart from autovoice) in the IRC channel are to be reported at the new log. In the IRC channel, there is going to be only one bot at a time. The charter requires members to have 150 edits and 2 weeks editing. Why this is the case will be clarified. A new Code of Conduct will be drafted by JoanneB and proposed to the Esperanza community. The NPA reform idea is to be dropped officially. Charter ammendments are to be discussed in future, not voted on. The Advisory Council is not going to be proposed to be expanded by the Advisory Council themselves, if others want to propose it, they will listen. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, KnowledgeOfSelf and FireFox 17:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #2

Barnstar Brigade The Barnstar Brigade is a new program aimed at giving more very deserving yet unappreciated users barnstars. It will officially start on 2006-04-09, but signing up is encouraged before this date: "Here in Wikipedia, there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go un-appreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go un-noticed. Sadly, these editors often leave the project. As Esperanzians, we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. A project the size of Wikipedia has thousands of editors, so there are plenty of people out there who deserve recognition, one just has to find them. The object of this program is not to flood editors with Barnstars, but to seek out people who deserve them, and make them feel appreciated." Stress Alerts The Stress alerts program aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them. Information Welcome to the second issue of the new format Esperanza Newsletter - we hope you still like it! This week, it was delivered diligently by our new dogsbody. MiszaBot (run by Misza13): any execution complaints should go to him. Content comments should be directed at the Esperanza talkpage. Thanks!

The last AC meeting (full log) The next elections: Approval voting as before and, also as before, an previous leadership member can run. Please submit your name for voting in the relevant section of this page. Voting starts on 2006-04-23 and ends on 2006-04-30. There will be three places up for grabs as KnowledgeOfSelf is leaving Wikipedia. Please see the previously linked page for full details. The Code of Conduct is now ready for extensive discussion! Specific comments should go to the Code of Conduct talk page, discussion of having one at all should be directed to the main Esperanza talk page. The current process for accepting proposals for new programs has been deemed fine. All Advisory Council members and the Admin Gen are to endevour to be bold when viewing discussion. If they feel that consensus has been reached, they will act accordingly. A plea from the editor... The propsed programs page is terribly underused! Please leave any comments, good or bad, on the page, to help us determine the membership's thoughts on the ideas there. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, KnowledgeOfSelf and FireFox 19:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

INC Apr. 11 2006

I would put an sprotect on the article if it were a fierce edit war like in Nov, where reverts were made everyday. But since it's been over a week since that edit (and a few months since the one before). I just warned him. Also since the edit pattern matches Emico's I have the ability to put an {{arbcom}} template on his talk page, and extend his ban a week, as his arbcom desision states. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 01:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Old Skool Esperanzial note

Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3

Administrator Coaching The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service. This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. Stressbusters The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome! Note from the editor As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!

The last AC meeting (full log) Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel. A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect. Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct. Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop. Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, Pschemp and Freakofnurture 20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Rougeblossom

I'm not sure if Rougeblossom (talk · contribs) is Emico, but the username is suspect. To know that much about the doxology, the user is probably a choir member. How many doxologies INC has INC been through? In the 80s there was a different doxology not mentioned. I'm not sure about it's accuracy.

I'm a common member and I can tell you about the doxology. And also, we don't know if Emico was a choir member or not.--Ironbrew 23:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

While we're at it, Can we do some work with the article? It's been stale for months, and it's almost been a year. I'd rather see the article restored by July, so we won't be in any more content disputes by the time the ArbCom remidies expire. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 17:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure. I've been busy at work here at Wikipedia with my non-controversial topic account and I would like to help improve the Iglesia article in whichever way possible. I humbly suggest though, that the George W. Bush article style protection (new and unregistered users) might help deter the Emico vandal.--Ironbrew 03:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I did an IP check on and found out it comes from an SBC provider in Texas. I've sent a {{User-NOR}} to the IP. If it continues, let WP:RPP know, since my active editing to the article restricts me from protecting it. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 05:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know who Emico is but I was a former choir member which explains how I know the lyrics. I agree that the lyrics to the hymns should probably not be posted on Wikipedia. However I see nothing wrong with a general description of the worship services.

I find it interesting that Rougeblossom (talk · contribs)'s contributions would come back up later through an anonymous IP and the frequent reversion also arouses my suspicions.--Ironbrew 23:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

You know, I am kind of new at this, but I expect I edited the article without signing in, which was my mistake. Rougeblossom and the anonymous IP are the same person, me. And what better source could you possibly have than the testimony of a member? Wikipedia is for anyone to edit. Rougeblossom 01:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, the thing is that my testimony or yours (although we are both members) represent personal research and that cannot be verified. Also, being associated with the organization might allow for deviation from neutral factuality, as personal opinion can get in, no matter how we try. It even says below that content must be Verifiable. And for a supposedly new user, let me say that you have quite a grip on using talk pages. We don't want to delete your contributions, we just want sources (Pasugo, etc). Check User:Guavawrench for an example. Also, please read Wikipedia:Verifiability. I won't keep reverting your edits, but sooner or later we will need sources. --Ironbrew 01:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm new at this. I'm an INC member and has recently edited the content of IGLESIA NI CRISTO page. however, I'm afraid I have not done enough to make it more informative and valuable to all readers. Also, will it revert to its previous content? Why does it include some portions that are totally heresay, like that portion regarding "INC's withdrawal of support for P-Noy" by R. Tulfo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PELLETZKY (talk • contribs) 20:23, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Simple English INC beliefs section

I made a bulleted list of INC's beliefs in the Simple English version of the article. Could you proof read it? Although I tried to keep it to simple English, I'm not sure if some words may have different meanings to others. --20:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me.--Ironbrew 04:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

A short Esperanzial update

As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower ^háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:SEMI on INC

I tried to get it semi'd (which has been around since November, so it's not that new) but they denied it saying there's not enough activity on the article. But I'll keep my eyes and watchlist out. BTW, I was reading the Primary Sources rule at WP:RS, and the letter about Felix's abuse is a primary source. Do you know if that letter was published elsewhere? Like a magazine, academic joural or whatever? --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 21:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

As you can see, Emico has created a plethora of sleeper accounts, and I believe he's continuing to create them now. With his use of proxies it only makes it easier for him to evade the blocks. Since it's now been nearly a year since the arbcom decision was dropped, and this game began, I've listed Emico on Wikipedia:Long term abuse, since his actions are abuse to Wikipedia in the name of INC. About the user you talked to me about, I doubt it's Emico, since he used the classic external link style; Emico now uses the ref tag. Emico seems to want to go after us (me, you and Clayworth [for what he's involved with now]) in particular. Notice that he doesn't seem to go after Coffeemaker, or anybody else for that matter? I still stick to the last thing I said on the arbcom hearing. Please talk to Fred Bauder about this. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 06:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

From my research and experiences with Emico here and on other venues (such as blogs and forums), he is a resourceful and clever person, and he has managed to successfully impersonate other bloggers online, such as one named AgustinongPinoy who is a noted critic of the INC and on the Network 54 forums. I can recognize him though due to the fact that he hardly uses plurals and doesn't usually capitalize proper nouns(such as "you are all berean" instead of "you are all Bereans"), and is highly sensitive to criticism about the INC.

• From what I know about him, Emico was a former member of the Iglesia ni Cristo who was expelled, and is trying very hard to get back in, and he told me once (paraphrased) "Officers in the Church told me that I have been improving my behavior." I haven't heard anything from him lately stating that he was readmitted into the church. I somewhat understand what he's going through, as I want to leave the INC although there are external factors prohibiting me from doing so, and Emico wants to rejoin the INC, although there are factors unknown to me preventing him from doing so.
  • It also seems Emico is very angry at the Bereans for criticizing the INC and believes he is upholding his faith and defending the INC by performing such acts against those he feels are critical of the INC, perhaps in hopes it will glorify God, or help him get closer to rejoining the INC - I remember you spoke about his edit behaviour being like a holy war before, and the more I read his posts, the more inclined I am to agree. He's lumping us in with the Bereans, and believes we are impediments in his struggle. I will talk with Fred Bauder once I get the time. Thanks again.--Ironbrew 03:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

August Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: To-Do List The Esperanza To-Do List is a place where you may list any request, big or small, for assistance. If you need help with archiving your usertalk, for example, all you need to do is list it here and somebody will help you out. Likewise, if you need help with some area of editing on Wikipedia, list it here! Again, any matter, trivial or not, can be placed on this page. However, all matters listed on this page must not be of an argumentative nature. You do not need to be a member of Esperanza (or this program) to place or fulfill requests on this page. If you don't have any requests, consider coming by and fulfilling a few! This program has not been very active, but has lots of potential! What's New? In order to help proposed programs become specific enough to make into full-fledged programs, the In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals that are promising, but need to be organized in more detail are listed here. Please take a look at what is there, and help the proposals turn into programs. To improve both the layout and text of the front page, in an attempt to clarify the image of Esperanza, the front page is going to have some redesigning take place. Please take your creative minds to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Front page redesign to brainstorm good ideas. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) In order to make sure all users who join Esperanza are welcomed, a list of volunteers who are willing to welcome new Esperanzians is at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members#Esperanza_welcomers. Please add yourself if you are interested; we want to make sure all new Esperanza members are welcomed! The In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals page: Some proposals have been moved to the aforementioned "In development" section, some have been left as a proposal, and others have been archived. For those proposals that were a good idea but didn't necessarily constitute a program, General Esperanzial Actions has been created. Two small pieces of charter reform will be decided on in a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Governance. One involves filling the position of any councillors who may leave, the other involves reforming the charter. Until cooperation with the Kindness Campaign is better defined, it remains as a proposed program. There is a page for discussing the front page redesign. Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, and Titoxd 05:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

INC WikiProject

I'm sending this to you as you've edited the Iglesia ni Cristo article substantially. As coverage of INC at Wikipedia continues to grow, and the need to make sure related articles are held at a high standard of Wikipedia article quality, I've proposed a new WikiProject dedicated to INC. If you're interested, go to Wikipedia:WikiProject/List_of_proposed_projects#WikiProject_Iglesia_ni_Cristo and sign your name. A temporary example of what the project page will look like is at my userspace. --LBMixPro ^{<Speak|on|it!>} 09:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Please refrain from vandalizing and removing sourced content. Exacconwh 16:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

You may want to be careful what you revert, Ironbrew. One of the edits you reverted was also a fix to the references section where an unclosed comment tag hid half the references on the article. I'm AGFing on this editor, but I'm not going to prevent your suspicions, however I did replace your template with the updated {{sockpuppet|Emico|Evidence=[[WP:LTA#Emico]]}} one. --LBMixPro ^{<Speak|on|it!>} 17:03, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Emico, I'm not going to give you a break until you change your ways and the administrators let you back in. Nothing personal, but it would run contrary to Wikipedia rules and the integrity of this article. --Ironbrew 19:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

As Fred Bauder said, "Any edit Emico makes to this article may be removed without comment, any sockpuppet or anonymous ip he uses may be blocked, if practical. He may be blocked under his own account for up to one week. If you make a note of his violation of his editing ban at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Emico the ban on editing certain articles will be extended from that date. It is not necessary that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that an editor is Emico, it is enough that he has the same point of view and style of editing."--Ironbrew 19:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I see. I'm changing the wording around to make it more objective than subjective as I added some sources, and it's not clear to what "Quasi-christian" means with no WP article about it. Emico is starting to slightly improve the article, citing reputable sources. I'm wanting to appeal to the ArbCom now that it has been about one year since the finding. I want to make it so that Emico is only able to write to the articles according to policy, but any edit that grossly violates NPOV and Original Research can be reverted without 3RR. And any edit war caused by him would cause him to be blocked; something like indefinete probation. I'd rather have the article improved than battle Emico. By the way, could you please reply on my talk page? --LBMixPro ^{<Speak|on|it!>} 19:25, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems another admin nailed him. Now to go back and watch "The Message".--LBMixPro ^{<Speak|on|it!>} 20:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

September Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: Barnstar Brigade Here in Wikipedia there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go unappreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go unnoticed. As Esperanzians we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. This is where the Barnstar Brigade comes in. The object of this program is to seek out the people which deserve a Barnstar, and help them feel appreciated. With your help, we can recognize more dedicated editors! What's New? September elections are upon us! Anyone wishing to be a part of the Advisory Council may list themselves as a candidate from 18 September until 24 September, with the voting taking place from 25 September to 30 September. Those who wish to help with the election staff should also list themselves! Appreciation Week, a program currently in development, now has its own subpage! Share your good ideas on how to make it awesome there! The Esperanza front page has been redesigned! Many thanks to all who worked hard on it. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) The proposals page has been updated, with some proposals being archived. Since the program in development Appretiaion week is getting lots of good ideas, it now has its own subpage. The September 2006 Council elections will open for nominations on 18 September 2006. The voting will run from 25 September 2006 until 30 September 2006. If you wish to be a candidate or a member of the elections staff, please list yourself! The new Esperanza front page design has but put up - many thanks to all who worked on it! TangoTango has written a script for a bot that will list new members of Esperanza, which will help those who welcome new Esperanzains greatly! Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, and Titoxd 04:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

November Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: Admin Coaching (needs coaches!) Admin Coaching needs coaches!!! If you are an administrator, or even a generally experienced user, do consider signing up to be a coach. Admin Coaching, now being coordinated by HighwayCello, is a program for people who want help learning some of the more subtle aspects of Wikipedia policy and culture. People are matched with experienced users who are willing to offer coaching. The program is designed for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. What's New? The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one! A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived. There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia. The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested! In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias. A discussion of Esperanza's role in Wikipedia is being held, with all thoughts of all Esperanzians wanted! Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello. Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, The Halo, Shreshth91 and HighwayCello 20:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

Okay

Okay, I've taken care of it. BTW I'm begging you to take it up to WP:AIV next time. Also only admins can use the sockpuppet proven template because they can actually block. Also it would be a nice idea to write something on User:Onlytofind about what happened to the account, and why this one is used. --w^{L<speak·check·chill>} 07:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Your Accusation

I know it has been a while and I should have responded earlier. But please, do not accuse me again of being a sock puppet. RasterBlaster 19:39, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Iglesia ni Cristo work group

Created a work group on Iglesia ni Cristo at the location above. Took your name from the proposed project page. I will try to do what I can to help the project, but that might not be much, given my limited familiarity with the subject. John Carter 18:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Iglesia ni Cristo

The Iglesia ni Cristo article received heavy editing today by new/unregistered users, which I noticed at WikiRage.com. The article may benefit from a good review. According to Wikipedia Page History Statistics, you are one of the top contributors to that page. If you have the time, would you please read over the article and make any necessary changes. Thanks. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 05:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's Emico this time

You might want to look at Wikipedia:Long term abuse/Primetime. He recently vandalized an INC related article that I've blocked him for. If he knows of what's been going on there, he's probably faking as Emico to start shit. That's why I'm username hardblocking any new Emico-style usernames as his sock. --w^{L<speak·check>} 05:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

See also: Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/3m1c0

Civility

You've been here for years, so you should be familiar with WP policies. Calling another editor a "jerk" isn't civil. Please treat other editors the way you'd want to be treated. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Eli Soriano, Members Church of God International, and Ang Dating Daan Articles

Hi Ironbrew,

According to Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry's talk page he "may be away from Wikipedia for long periods of time." That is also the case with me. Would you kindly help us keep an eye on the above articles. There is some problem with an editor called Dar_book who is using every trick in his "book" to whitewash the articles. He is quite quick, the moment I am gone he would edit them, like what happened today. It is getting on my nerves. Please see this link.

Thank you.

– Shannon Rose (talk) 17:33, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Iglesia ni Cristo group

There is discussion regarding what if anything to do regarding the Iglesia ni Cristo work group at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Iglesia ni Cristo work group#Fold back into parent project. Input from all listed members is more than welcome. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 15:50, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

Please don't vandalize my page again. RasterBlaster (talk) 18:09, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Regarding INC succession

Hello! I noticed that you edited the INC succession user box to indicate that the late Ka Erdy's son Eduardo is now the acting Executive Minister. Is there a confirmed source about this? Since I'm Catholic, I'm not familiar with how things work over at the INC. My impression, based on the news reports, if Ka Erdy's profile is a precedent, is that there will have first to be a formal election or convocation (or something like that, I'm not sure what term the INC uses) among the top INC ministers convened to name the next Executive Minister, and it is in this type of election that Eduardo Manalo is expected to be named. I have yet to see a news report that says he already assumed Acting Executive Minister duties after his father's death...or is this an automatic thing within the INC leadership, much like how a Vice President (of a country or corporation) is expected to succeed a President who died in office? Thanks in advance :) --- Tito Pao (talk) 03:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

Long-term abuse report

Your recent long-term abuse report does not meet the criteria for inclusion, as it is not a long-term vandal. The user you reported was blocked, but LTA was not the place to file reports for vandalism. In the vast majority of cases Deny Recognition and Revert block ignore are more suitable approaches. Also, before submitting a report, please read the instructions, which included to list an entry on the main list and to transclude it on the full page. Netalarm^talk 21:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:05, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:32, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Ironbrew. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

"Binhi" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Binhi. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 25#Binhi until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:21, 25 July 2020 (UTC)