User talk:Afghan Historian/Archive 1

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Hi

Hi. May I ask you, why you never log in to edit articles? Just wondering. Thanks. --Khoikhoi 08:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

-Thanks for asking Khoikoi. I'm pretty lazy when edit and am caught up in writing to a point that I forget to sign in or cite myself. I'm making a habit of going back and inserting my user and writing edits being signed in, rather than signed out. I apologize for the vague identity citation of sorts. User: Afghan Historian

It's ok. As I said, I was just curious. --Khoikhoi 02:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Welcome

Hey Afghan Historian, Welcome! I just noticed an edit by an anonymous user on an archived discussion who signed your username. This may have been you, since you say above that you have been going back and signing things. The problem with that is that Wikipedia has had the problem before of users impersonating other users, especially in controversial topics such as issues in the Middle East. It's much safer if you sign in and then "sign" all your comments by putting in ~~~~ in the markup, which comes up as a stamp of your username and the time you posted it. This is far more difficult to impersonate, because even I could put in User:Afghan Historian, and I know nothing about hacking. Also, it's better to respond to things from the archive on the current talk page, perhaps by copying and pasting the comment you are responding to. Makemi 19:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

-Thanks Makemi. I'll remember that. -[[Afghan Historian 04:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)]]

India as a province of Persia??

What rubbish!!!!

When did India become a provice of Persia?????? Never mind Herodotus, but all Persian/Turkic and C Asian contact resulted in local rule, rather than becoming a provice.

Pizzadeliveryboy 19:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

-Ancient northwestern India, (the Punjab and Sindh) made up the twentieth, and by far, the wealthiest province of the Achaemenid Persian Empire. It is recorded history. I didnt mean the whole of India. Just the northwest. It's true. Records and archaeology prove it as being true, (although this region is now located in Pakistan). You cannot deny this historical fact. Pinfeathers it's rubbish! -[[Afghan Historian 20:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)]]

Regarding the Ethiopian debate

I think that whole argument is somewhat pointless and it's somewhat subjective in scope. On the one hand, "race" is kind of going out and regional genetics taking its place which links various people together in a chain all over the world with various types found in one place or another. In addition, the extreme view would probably be that the Ethiopians do not have any West Asian ancestry which is nonsense as they clearly share many genes with Arabian populations. Then the other extreme is to overempasize this issue. I'm not sure what I can contribute though as the page looks okay and the debate sounds like it will only end up devolving into some shouting match over the 'Caucasianness' of one group over another. Might be better left alone at this point. The Somali page which I worked didn't include any debate over race so much as a general physical type and with whom the Somalis are related. I think it's better to just leave it at that. Tombseye 19:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan

That is a complicated question (as is everything else in that region). There was certainly the Indian and Buddist influence in Afghanistan. And many of the Barmakids were of Buddha's faith originally. So you even had the influence in Iran as well.

Im not exactly sure I fully understand your question though. But you may want to ask User:Tajik. He is from Kabul.--Zereshk 22:37, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Afghanistan is deffinitly Iranian - by language and by culture. Of course, Indian and Iranian cultures are related. But since the advent of Islam, Iranian culture has become a part of the Islamic world. 90+ % of Afghanistan are native Iranian-speakers, 60+% being Persian-speakers and 30% Pashto-speakers (some ethnic Pashtun families have become Persian by language). The region today know as "Afghanistan" was part of "Greater Khorasan" in the past and thus, the birthplace of modern Persian language and culture. Of course, there is a lot of modern Indian influence in Afghanistan (Indian movies, music, clothing, etc) ... but all in one, Afghanistan is Iranian. -Tajik 00:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't really given it any thought regarding Afghanistan's cultural position, but I have long viewed it as an Iranian domain. The region/country that overlaps between the Indo-Aryan and Iranian civilizations is Pakistan, a place I've travelled to, and not Afghanistan which is Iranian with a large Turkic minority. Although I think the Pashto-speaking population is probabaly higher than the 30% figure Tajik gave you as it's at least 35% and will probably be higher once more Pashtun refugees return to Afghanistan which is possible. Tombseye 21:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I think Tajik means pure Pashtun, i.e. those not overlapping with the Persian linguistic sphere. Many speak both. My guess though.--Zereshk 11:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

About Freddie Mercury

First of all,my apologies for the delayed response.I liked Freddie a lot but I honestly can't comment on the problem you asked me about.The fact is,my knowledge about Freddie's heritage is practically nonexistant.

I did try to browse some sites but the information was very ambiguous in nature.Anyways,Good Luck on your article. Freedom skies 19:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Answer

Do I look like an Indian ? Amir85

Scythia

I personally think the people there are both right. Azeris are Turkic, but they are Iranian too. It is an established fact that pre-14th century Azeri language was not even Turkic. And besides, the origin of the Iranians themselves was Central Asia (as has been stipulated in the Avesta), and not the "Fars" region in today's south Iran which they later partially migrated to.

I think what some editors are so afraid of is that "Turkic" is (incorrectly) being identified with Turkey (and hence Turkish).

For Scythian,

In Persian, we say Sakkaa, and the mythical heroes of the Shahnama (the Ilyad of Persian literature) were all from Sakestan or Sajestan.

But anyway, regarding sources, usually anything that Encyclopedia Iranica says, I take at face value and accept fully.

But there are some other sources too you can touch bases on: [1], [2]

Be cool.--Zereshk 01:10, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Freddie Mercury

His ethnicity is without a doubt Persian, while his nationality was Indian. That's pretty much the end of it. In addition to konwing something about his musical background, I saw an episode of Biography on him which identified him as an ethnic Persian, but not Iranian. Calling him Iranian in the modern context is a bit of a stretch and doesn't really make any sense. As for how people identify themselves, it clearly varies. For some people their ethnic allegiance means more to them than any national one etc. I don't know if Freddie Mercury identified himself as Iranian, I only know that he did identify himself as a Persian which Parsis generally do since they have intermarried and kept to themselves for centuries until very recently. Tombseye 18:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Iranian Nationalist

First of all, the way you asked me the question I think it could perceived by many as an offence, secondly how can you claim that I'm a "nationalist" ?. To answer your question, I'm from Tehran. Amir85 18:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

little bit "hard feelings" but if you mean those words, no hard feelings. I'm not "living" here, I'm just studying in India. So you are ethnic Pashtun ? Amir85

So why you've picked this name : "Afghan Historian" ? Amir85 19:28, Thursday 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Har Roozetan Norouz, Norouzetan Pirooz هر روزتا ن نوروز , نوروزتان پيروز ! Amir85 13:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

South Asian Iranians

What's the link?--Zereshk 20:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Qissa-i Sanjan

Hi Afghan Historian. I just created this stub. If you happen to know more on this subject, please take a look when you have time. Regards, deeptrivia (talk) 03:09, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Aryan

When did I say Aryan means Iranian? That's exactly the misunderstanding I'm trying to keep away from Wikipedia. See my comments [3]. Your help will be appreciated. Aucaman^Talk 23:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your message. Could you also take a look at the Iranian peoples article? We need to find a source that defines exactly who Iranian peoples are. I've been busy working on some of the other articles, so I haven't had the time to look for sources for that article. Aucaman^Talk 04:35, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels

Hi thank you for joining the WikiProject. There is still plenty of scope for influencing things and making your contribution count. We are about establishing standards for Novel based articles and writing articles that meet our own and others high standards, and to improve Wikipedia's diet of articles on Fiction books, otherwise called Novels. Perhaps you would add our userbox {{User WikiProject Novels}} to your userpage which will automatically add you to our participants category. If you have any questions, do ask. Please be very welcome. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)} 08:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Shirazi

Well, the only thing I've inherited from all that mouthful of names in my family is an agate ring, which was the personal property of Shirazi. And considering the 40 or so cousins I have in my family, it is lucky I even got that much. So in that respect, Im ordinary just like everyone else. I get by with student loans whenever I can, and I work for a pitiful 1600$ a month salary as a research assistant, living off of TacoBell and McDonalds. But I dont complain. Things could be worse. My dad was the one who got things easy (a paid for Ivy League education and all). But for me, it never came easy: I have to work my ass off just like the rest of the noble creatures of this abode.

As for my grandfather who was a colonel of the Shah, he retired before the revolution, which made him immune to any political persecution by the revolutionaries. Thats why he stayed in Iran until he died in 94. Otherwise, if you were in the Shah's Army and ranked, chances are, the revolution would have not treated you well. Either execution, or imprisonment.

Hence many high positioned people fled to the US. An exodus.

And thats why you keep running into all these "high class from old govt" types.

All Ive ever cared about in my life is being close to a top academic library, and being free of illness and malady in health. The rest is just parentheses.

Besides, you should be proud. Pakis are smart people. At least you guys had Abdus-salam, a Nobel laureate. We persians never got one, being so hedonistic and all. God those L.A. Persians piss me off. Doing nothing but dancing and indulgence.--Zereshk 20:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Take care.--Zereshk 20:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply

I've been away and quite busy. I know quite a bit about Foucault and his best work is probably Discipline and Punish, in my opinion, as it deals with power and societal control. As for the Parsis, I'll see if I can do some work on it at some point. Ciao. Tombseye 21:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:Freddie Mercury

Thanks for the note on my talkpage. Well Freddie was a pretty complex personality. Even though he was born in Zanzibar and spent much of his early life in India, it seems he had no particular love for either of the countries, let alone Iran. Bottom line is that he considered himself to be British other than any thing else. He rarely commented on his early life. As for his ethnicity, i believe the story of "Freddie taking pride in Persian/Iranian roots" is purely concocted as no biography mentions it. Indian Parsis are ofcourse an endogamous communtiy of 8th century Zoroastrian immigrants from Persia, but over course of time, they have sort of assimilated in Indian culture. Granted that they look more fair, but same holds true for numerous Indian communitites especially the Gujaratis and Sindhis who primarily resided in area traditionaly dwelt by Parsis. To paraphrase in the words of Freddie's childhood friend (also a Parsi) Geeta Choksi (When asked whether she felt Persian or Indian in the Freddie Mercury - A Definative Biography)

"What rubbish, ofcourse i feel Indian. I may be exotic to say that 'I am Persian' but we were hounded out of Persia a long time ago'"

I think Indian Parsi sums it all. If any reader in interested then he may go to the main article for more info. Anyways i dont think Freddie's ethnicity should be central to the article but if people are going to refer to him as Persian or Iranian on Wikipedia then same would hold true for people like Rajiv Gandhi and Tatas and Birlas (which i daresay our Indian nationalists will not be able to stomach). File:England flag large.png अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 13:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Need your Help

I need support in editing the page for Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh from Pakistani-Wikipedians. The page concludes Pakistans link to 9/11 using information from Indian press and much information in that page is without proper references. The page says that ISI gives money to Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh and Sheikh then wired the money to Atta. I have checked some of the references on that page and information in the references is different from what is mentioned in it. I will appreciate any help because I have very less free time these days... Faisal 16:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Jinnah PR

Hi Afghan Historian - I need your help and advice in making Muhammad Ali Jinnah an FA. Please join the Wikipedia:Peer review/Muhammad Ali Jinnah/archive1. Rama's Arrow 17:22, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Re:India

The article's become way too long and is often redundant (i.e. the disputed border claim with Afghanistan). Also the terminology has gone from academic to the usage of subjective terminology such as 'great' etc. The smart thing to do is to shorten parts of the article so that links can provide readers with more information, rather than repeating information found in in-depth articles. Tombseye 01:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Khomeini

No, it's all a myth created by Khomeini's enemies to make him and his ideas seem 'foreign'. he's most definitely not even remotely Sikh and his grandfather's family moved to India for a time and then his grandfather returned to Iran. That doesn't make him Indian. It's all made-up. Tombseye 21:42, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for your valuable judgement on the issue of Freddie Mercury's ethnicity debate. You seem to be very well read. Yes, I know of Merle Oberon. Apparently (I really do not know if this is true) she was involved in questionable activities in my birth city of Kolkata...

70.29.49.37 04:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Freddie

• Certainly no offense taken, and thanks for filling me in. For the record I got involved on the Iranian music page after formatting it and didn't previously know much about any of this, but my main problem was this: a link to a BBC news article was removed from a page, and only opinions were given to support its removal. A supplied link (on a talk page) to an article at Brian May's site was broken. As a tertiary source, verified info on Wikipedia (referencing a BBC article definitely qualifies) must be legitmately unverified, not removed by those who cannot prove their knowledge is sourced, or not the product of original research. I think it would be proper for information about the mistake (especially as it seems to be quite a common misconception) to be included in the article, along with evidence, eg a working link directly to the relevant piece on May's website. FM does seem to be revered by Iranians, no matter how tenuous his claims to Iranian / Persian / Parsi etc. ancestry. Thanks again, Deizio 21:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

• I've noticed that the message left on my page came from an anon IP (the same who edited the pages in question above, and also removed my comment from it's talk page) but contained your signature. If you are one and the same, it would be standard practice to do everything while logged in, unless there is a reason to do otherwise? Cheers again, Deizio 21:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Your user page

Oh, okay :) I've removed the vandalism warning from your friend's user page. Cheers, and good night, Tangotango 06:58, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Lawrence of Arabia

Hello. Don't worry, my page is just archived because it was too long. I read some of Lawrence's work and it's my impression that Lawrence's actions were to help the Arabs, but he was manipulated and used by his superiors who were afterall imperialists. The British are responsible for what happened in Israel/Palestine, but this was after Lawrence who did not envision or intend for things to unfold as they did since he argued for Arab indepedence. Tombseye 18:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC)