Talk:Sergey Surovikin

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Syrian war conduct

The section boasting about his achievements in Syria uses flimsy Russian sources. The article as a whole needs a clean up. Yellowmellow45 (talk) 12:57, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at a better source [1], it says: "The general was accused of overseeing a brutal bombardment that destroyed much of the city of Aleppo in Syria, where Russia intervened on the side of Bashar al-Assad. In a report published in October 2020, Human Rights Watch listed him as one of the commanders “who may bear command responsibility for violations” during the 2019-2020 offensive in Syria’s Idlib.". That's how he "turned the tide" [2].My very best wishes (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it could be integrated with the main theses and not an "All the bad things he's ever done" section 36.65.242.246 (talk) 10:12, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, some sources call him "brutal and corrupt" [3], others say he is known in the Russian army as “General Armageddon” — ”for his ability to act unconventionally and brutally.” [4], even according to "pro-Russian" sources [5]. I wonder, if his appointment was a response to Joe Biden who recently said something about the "Armageddon" [6]. My very best wishes (talk) 16:51, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of his extensive terror attacks?????

Surovikin is well known for his extensive terror attacks in Syria, bombing civilians to death in huge numbers, but in a weird way, his crimes in Syria are not mentioned here and his brutal actions against civilians is presented in a strange, positive way. And shortly after taking command over all Russian attackers in Ukraine, a huge campaign against innocent civilians started, without any mentioning at all. This is a very misleading article. Joreberg (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the most detailed description of his life and career I found in RS. Welcome to use it to improve the page along with other RS. My very best wishes (talk) 19:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1991: 1st "Rifle Battalion" of Tamanskaya Division ?

What Battalion ? This Division then had: 1-й гвардейский мотострелковый полк - Polk = Regiment. Or is meant: "1st [motorized rifle] battalion of 1st Guards motorized rifle regiment ? Wonder why even ru brings that kind of quite improper "information". --129.187.244.19 (talk) 13:45, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I agree the lead section, as of 12 October 2022, needs to be expanded. However, when editing the lead, try to make sure that the information is fully covered in the text below. One good test is that the citations are in the text below, and not in the lead. --Bejnar (talk) 14:03, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Twitter account

Would this seemingly official twitter account be a good source of information and/or quotes? 180.244.128.130 (talk) 06:20, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's not verified, and some of the stuff looks like it was written by a non-native Russian speaker. I wouldn't use it. Kleinpecan (talk) 06:51, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 November 2022

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In 11 November 2022, Alexander Zakharov, a deputy of the Legislative Assembly in Primorsky Oblast, claimed that Sergey Surovikin was the son of Vladimir Surovikin, a Soviet pilot who was decorated in the Korean War, and who died in the year of Sergey Surovikin’s birth when his aircraft experienced engine failure, and he heroically sacrificed his own life to steer the fighter away from residential buildings rather than ejecting to save his own life. This claim has been widely repeated in pro-Kremlin media.

The supposed connection with Vladimir Surovikin has been denied by the Soviet pilot’s great-grandson, Vladimir Mazich, and also appears to be refuted by a wedding certificate recording the pilot’s marriage to a woman who is not Sergey Surovikin’s mother.

References: UATV, “Fake hero: how Kremlin tries to hide bloody track record of Sergey Surovikin”, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv_tof9rYE0

Medusa, https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/11/22/we-hope-this-is-a-mistake

Yahoo News, “Russian propagandists invent heroic bloodline for Surovikin”, https://news.yahoo.com/russian-propagandists-invent-heroic-bloodline-201000991.html

New Voice of Ukraine, https://english.nv.ua/nation/russian-propagandists-invent-heroic-bloodline-for-surovikin-news-50285718.html

The Insider, “ Russian propagandist invents legend of “heroic pilot father who fought the Americans” for General Surovikin”, https://theins.ru/en/news/257188 1.132.105.165 (talk) 04:57, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Colonestarrice (talk) 03:09, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arrested?

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/28/russian-general-arrested-following-wagner-mutiny-mt-russian-a81685 Victor Grigas (talk) 20:42, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It says: "citing two sources close to the Defense Ministry who spoke on the condition of anonymity". I would rather wait for confirmation. Mellk (talk) 20:58, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There're sources definitely talking about this and that, just like previously whether Prigozhin would still be charged despite self-exiling in Belarus. But it can only say one thing, the purge definitely happens as we speak---because nobody can explain why Wagnerites can go into Rostov facing no resistance, and even what happened between Rostov and somewhere north to Voronezh when some soldiers may have joined or at least been symphathetic to Wagnerites.

But from a historical perspective, any purge after aborted or successful coup happens all the time---just look at what happened after Jul 20, 1944's failed assassination and coup against Hitler, thousands of people died or imprisoned for that, and the Wehrmacht underwent a great purge too. Bf0325 (talk) 02:20, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The moscow times often publishes false information, as such we should wait for official russian sources or even msm sources to confirm his arrest. Akb0y47 (talk) 21:06, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On this, you'd better check other sources, for of course that won't go undetected, esp. if rumors already spread from Moscow to elsewhere, esp.by military reporters---like a Romanov__92 allegedly indicated in his page(likely Telegram, because he didn't update his Twitter really often) that Surovikin is sent to the notorious Lefortovo prison. ([7]https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1674100048911532042)

And, as always, Institute for the Study of War also reported this and cited a few sources regarding the alleged arrest of Surovikin. ([8]https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-28-2023) Bf0325 (talk) 02:17, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Arrested

Wagner-adjacent general Surovikin under arrest by FSB – report (yahoo.com) / Surovikin: Russian general missing since Wagner mutiny ‘resting’ | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

Appears to state the Surovikin has been arrested by the FSB in Russia, this has also been reported widely in the past day (07/13/23) by multiple mainstream news outlets. Vatily.varistokovko (talk) 05:55, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Already sort of in article, but added some more detail. Kges1901 (talk) 11:23, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request to "Affiliation with Wagner group, Wagner rebellion and aftermath"

Though at this moment, the whereabouts of Surovikin is unknown, but recently there're unconfirmed reports that Surovikin may be dispatched to Algeria for an assignment, and likely related to Russian MOD's subsuming Wagner's control in Africa--- [9]https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-september-15-2023

Of course as usual, ISW cited multiple Russian Telegram sources, and some related to previous news and assessments of Deputy Russian defense minister Yevkurov's visit to Africa, which some alleged to carry out the task of taking over Wagner and its operations in Africa.

If confirmed, then Surovikin may follow a well-described path as others pointed out before that Putin dispatches any general out of favor for a while to another corner of the earth(e.g. Armenia, Syria), stay there for a while and finish whatever task at hand, and if possible, recalls that general back to Russia or simply Ukraine once the general wins back Putin's favor. Bf0325 (talk) 18:57, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Butcher or Syria?

That’s not his nick name. That’s a name given to him by the western media. Yasarhossain07 (talk) 22:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a strange attribution of western opinionated news giving "butcher" nicknames to russian commanders, despite these men's actions not being even worthy of such infamy. In fact theres not even a peep about giving Syrski the butcher nickname despite the same news outlets refering to him as such: [10] There seems to be a selective process on the reporting of such nicknames. BarakHussan (talk) 19:17, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ironically enough given your comment, "Butcher" is given as one of Syrski's nicknames.

As for whether Surovkin deserves his nickname, your or my personal opinion about whether he's "worthy of such ignominy" it's irrelevant. reliable sources have reported that is his nickname and as far as Wikipedia is concerned, that's the end of the story. Shimbo (talk) 19:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]