Talk:Ruscism/Archive 5

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Solzhenitsyn

I think this new section is rather problematic. While this writer did express a number of nationalistic, possibly even imperialistic and xenophobic views (not in his best books), just as many other writers in Russia, there are several issues: (a) there is zero evidence that he or his works influenced any current politics in Russia (this is a pure speculation at best), (b) he is mostly known for his books about Gulag, i.e. he is mostly known for his opposition to political oppression in Russia, (c) he never supported fascists or Nazi, being himself a military veteran of the war against Nazi, even though Soviet/KGB propaganda did make such claims to discredit him. My very best wishes (talk) 14:42, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41061849 - Aristophile (talk) 15:18, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and that could be used on a page about him. But there were thousands and thousands public figures who supported Putin and his politics in some way. Consider those, for example, who are included to the list of international sanctions (S. is not one of them). Should all of them appear on this page? Some - yes, probably, like Dugin, but he did openly express some fascist views (and none of the a,b,c above would be applicable to him). Well, what exactly would you suggest? Just to restore or make another version? My very best wishes (talk) 15:46, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Restore and improve, IMO. Solzhenitsyn's contribution to the current situation is pretty axiomatic, differing opinions notwithstandidng. --Aristophile (talk) 16:31, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. Simply looking the best accessible ref [1] (yours is under paywall), it says: "Solzhenitsyn criticizes the Soviet ambition to impose Russian domination over non-Russian nations, saying it "would destroy the Russian national essence." Further, Russia does not have enough strength to control an empire, he writes, and trying to do so will only "hasten our destruction.". He did advocate for the peaceful unification of Ukraine and Russia, but never advocated genocide of Ukrainians, as is happening during this war. His views maybe nationalist and anti-Western, but not fascist. My very best wishes (talk) 17:20, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Read this - https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/vladimir-putin-guru-solzhenitsyn-115088/ --Aristophile (talk) 18:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/03/russia.ukraine - that's pretty insensitive. --Aristophile (talk) 18:52, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

"Insensitive" - yes, sure. What do we have here?

1. The conclusion by Luke Harding (great author!): His [Solzhenitsyn's] later statements have demonstrated an increasingly nationalist anti-western tone, and he appears to be a fan of President Vladimir Putin, who gave him a literary award last summer. Yes, this is all true.
2. Another article: A passionate patriot as well as a champion of free speech, Solzhenitsyn left a rich, diverse, and controversial legacy. Putin chooses to follow only those ideas that fit his neo-imperialist and reactionary agenda, and naturally they don’t usually include the free-speech part. Yes, that's a reasonable opinion.
3. In December 2014, Putin quoted Solzhenitsyn as saying: "..." This should be dismissed as another lie by Putin, unless reliably sourced as actual words by S. When and where did S. say this?
4. In his 1990 essay, written on the eve of the fall of the Soviet Union, Solzhenitsyn suggested that Russia abandon its global agenda and focus, instead, on its internal problems. He called for the immediate separation of Russia from the Soviet Union - Is not it an anti-imperialist view by S? ”He accepted the potential future independence of Ukraine but added: “The area is very heterogenous indeed, and only the local population can determine the fate of a particular locality” This is something reasonable, but we know that Putin did not follow his advice: he did not conduct a fair referendum in Crimea or anywhere during this war.
5. It seems that S. (he died in 2008) has predicted that Russia/Putin will attack the West and this "may well bury Western civilization forever.” But he never advocated for nullifying human rights in Russia or anywhere (see above about free-speech) or for complete military occupation of Ukraine, unless I am mistaken. The ongoing war and genocide would be his worst nightmares coming true.

In summary, I do not see any way to describe his views or influence as fascist, and none of the sources above does it. My very best wishes (talk) 21:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Only this single ref connects S with the subject of this page, but the subject is defined differently in the article, i.e. the novel term ‘rashism’ (рашизм) rapidly coalesced for referring to and negatively assessing the mixed-bag fascist-inflected ideology of neo-imperialism that the Kremlin deploys for justifying and promoting its actions. If we consider the subject of this page merely as new Russian neo-imperialism, then yes, more content, possibly even S., can be included. My very best wishes (talk) 21:58, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

But again, the subject of this page is presumably neo-fascism (e.g. per Snyder), rather than just neo-imperialism, which is a different thing. Therefore, not Solzehitsyn - simply because none of the cited sources describes his as a fascist - this term has specific meaning. My very best wishes (talk) 23:10, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

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• DSHRG Rusich patch during 2022 Ukraine war.png

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Question Related to editing

I would like to ask a question.. I am Ukrainian and I understand very well what this ideology is since 2008, (From the news related to the Second russo-Chechen War that I heard at some point in 2008 (I don't remember exactly where but i remember hearing something related to this war) and the russo-Georgian war and witness this ideology partly by myself in 2014, when they stole Crimea and created alcoholic rashistical republics of the DPR and LPR) Is it okay if I somewhere later edit this page with more information without source? (I'm bad at editing so I'll do it later if I don't forget, also sorry for my bad spelling, I've had spelling problems since I was a kid. Also, I'm not good at giving correct information about anything so it takes me a while to understand how I will write it and in what way and much more) There is one more thing.. I live in the west of Ukraine, but i still know all the things the modern fascists doing here in the south and east of Ukraine. Also maybe i will be unable to read your replies for now since it's 23:42 for me when i'm finished writing this. Random Fan Camping (talk) 20:42, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Random Fan Camping:, sorry for the late reply. Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not allow inclusion of information which isn’t verified by sources. If you would like to add information it’s best to find sources (the source doesn’t have to be in English). -🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦(talk)🇺🇦 19:45, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Alright Random Fan Camping (talk) 11:29, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Слава Нації! Смерть Ворогам! Random Fan Camping (talk) 11:30, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Україна переможе! -🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦(talk)🇺🇦 15:55, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

I would advise you to keep your nationalist slogans as far away from this as possible. It is much more important to be unbiased and rational even if you truly believe in the glory of your one nation and wish death to all its enemies. Luroe (talk) 16:57, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

ok 74.76.47.242 (talk) 21:32, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

This term was coined by Ukrainian ultranationalists and Bandera lovers in their sick mind. How do you expect them to be unbiased and rational? Their slogan exactly wishes death to their enemies, which are as defined by Bandera by 1941: poles, jews and communists, and they did exactly this in Khatyn (Belarus) and in Volyn (Poland), both acts recognized as genocide. Enjoy the modern Wikipedia. 89.0.121.236 (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Stepan Bandera had been arrested by Gestapo in 1941 and was thrown to Sachsenhausen concentration camp for his plans to proclaim independent Ukraine in nazi-occupied Lviv.

But the slogan "Slava Ukraine - Geroyam slava!" had evolved since those days. Ukrainians regret those massacres of poles, they have expressed official remorse and even built Orlat Cemetery for the Poles and their allies who died in Lwów during the hostilities of the Polish-Ukrainian War and Polish-Soviet War between 1918 and 1920. Jew has become an elected president of Ukraine. And communists are actually equal to nazists so not much of problem with hating them. Most important is that slogan is used to wish the death to Ruscist invaders today - not Poles, Jews or mythic communists. 176.113.167.189 (talk) 22:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

This did not stop his supporters from carrying out a massacre, and he was also an outspoken anti-Semite and collaborated with the Nazis before his arrest. 81.163.45.41 (talk) 00:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Arbitrary use of the term

In the article, the term "Ruscism" is presented as if it were a synonym for "Russian Fascism". It is not. "Ruscism" is a neologism and the article should simply deal with how this term is being used by a (narrow) section of academics. Moreover, sources are used that do not even mention "Ruscism" and are attributed to it. I am in the process of removing them. Mhorg (talk) 09:31, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

For example, the section "Russian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate)". The central issue of "Ruscism" seems to me to be totally absent. What is it for then? Mhorg (talk) 09:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

See for example The 2022 Invasion of Ukraine and its Lessons for Nationalism Studies (sciendo.com) - The pejorative neologisms “RussiZm” and “Ruscism” (a portmanteau “Russia” and “fascism”) ManyAreasExpert (talk) 09:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I got the point right, there is really a problem here on the English Wikipedia. I don't know how it got there, but even on the Ukrainian[2] and Russian[3] Wikis there are articles for "Russian Fascism" and they are separate from the neologism "Ruscism". Basically, since a small proportion of academics use the term "Ruscism" we are forcing the encyclopaedia to use this term instead of "Russian Fascism". Mhorg (talk) 09:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I remember there was a discussion to delete Fascism in Russia or Russian Fascism in favor of Ruscism. Couldn't find it right away. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 09:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

• I think this page should be renamed back to "Rashism" as more common name right now. That is obviously a combination of "Russia" and "fascism". My very best wishes (talk) 00:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Some necessary additions

The revealing hoax of Gennady Rakitin published some Nazi-inspired and warmongering verses in a light disguise, which ironically received significant following in Russia and even won some official awards. This case can perfectly prove that Ruscism and Nazism are basically the same thing. So I think it's necessary to add some relevant content to this entry. Aronlee90 (talk) 09:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)