Talk:Nigga

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Nigga article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Wikipedia is not censored.
Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Nigga. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Nigga at the Reference desk.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

African diaspora High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hip-hop Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip-hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of hip-hop on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Hip-hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip-hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip-hopHip-hop
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States Mid‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Linguistics: Applied Linguistics Low‑importance

	Linguistics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of linguistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LinguisticsWikipedia:WikiProject LinguisticsTemplate:WikiProject LinguisticsLinguistics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Applied Linguistics Task Force.

English Language Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject English Language, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the English language on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.English LanguageWikipedia:WikiProject English LanguageTemplate:WikiProject English LanguageEnglish Language
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

This page was proposed for deletion by RainbowBambi (talk · contribs) on 22 April 2024.
It was contested by Fred Gandt (talk · contribs) on 2024-04-22

Author of the article

This was definitely written by a white person lol Tzauarner (talk) 13:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RIGHT?! Grokante (talk) 14:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please consider reviewing the article history and contributing improvements to the article where you see fit. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 21:46, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am a non-American white person. I honestly cannot tell if this is parody or not because of The Boondocks. Having the two articles is just like the Joe Petto joke "look, here's some songs that use the N word in a positive sense!"

Why not combine "gga GAH" with "gger GER" along with the language idiosyncracies such as "look" in Hindi and "book" in Russian, as well as misinterpreted words that sound offensive but are not (for example, European [French] use of descriptors of blackness) and *niggardly* (to be parsimonious).

Please forgive my cultural insensitivity. Splitting up the articles does not optimise the user experience on the internet and looks suspiciously like a parody.

Other cultural references should be made, regarding: racism depicted in popular culture (mobsters blaming blacks for petty crime in the Sopranos, Hesh Rabkin describing himself and other Jews as "the white man's ni**er" etc).

It's a complex topic and touches on ideas like skin lightening, the caste system in India, well-intentioned but ultimately racist romanticism, black solidarity, assimilation into mainstream culture and if America can ever forgive itself for once being the last large-scale Western holdout on slavery (Australia gang pressed Pacific Islanders into forced labour into the 20th century). Another issue is even the discussion of "what does *black* mean"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.196.170.117 (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Needs to be treated with parity

"Nigga" and "Faggot" should be treated with parity.

Requests: - Change title of the article from "Nigga" to "Nigga (slang) - Remove the word "vulgar" in the first line of the articleGrokante (talk) 13:59, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A parenthetical qualifier is not required in the title as it is not ambiguous, unlike Faggot which is ambiguous; see WP:DAB. Note the title is italic, indicating that it is a word-as-a-word; see WP:ITALICTITLE and MOS:WAW. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 21:42, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Designation for men

The term "nigga" is used for black men and some mannish women. Thousands of hip-hop songs make this clear. For example, the "Pressurelicious" song has lyrics saying, "Niggas admire the way that I'm built, might let him spank it..." 2601:C4:C300:A210:49AB:812C:8413:BF36 (talk) 19:50, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Without reliable sources discussing the claim; that is original research, which has no place in this encyclopedia. It should also be noted that "him" appears to reference the admirer, not the admired, thus fails to serve as an example of the claim. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 02:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's a basic definition. For example, Larry Wilmore would call the Barack Obama "my nigga" https://time.com/4316322/larry-wilmore-obama-n-word/ while Wilmore wouldn't call (female) Michelle Obama "nigga". Here is an academic article that repeats what every American speaker is aware of: this word is "(usually from a male to or about a male") https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4954799/ I have seen the label applied to masculine women, but this is not common. In rap song, males are called "niggas" while females are called "bitches."--2601:C4:C300:A210:49AB:812C:8413:BF36 (talk) 02:54, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see now that you are pointing out that the subjects are usually those considered male or mannish and that the article currently does not make this clear; correct? This may be a fair point. I would suggest beginning to tackle this by checking for gender references in the sources already used; the article may already be armed with the information required to correct it, if a correction is apt. It is entirely possible that this article has suffered the effects of androcentrism (or perhaps a more suitable descriptor for the phenomenon) and the, perhaps common, understanding that nigga is a primarily male oriented term (like bro or dude) has been incorrectly overlooked. I'll certainly take a look myself later (I was minutes away for going to sleep and just checking my watchlist for possible vandalism) but feel free to do the work yourself if you feel you can. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 06:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes, protected page ... sorry; sleepy. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 06:27, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't forgotten this and will get around to it if no one else picks up the challenge. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 16:51, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please add ..

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In 2001, "Hip-Hop Minister", and former Nation of Islam Minister, Conrad Tillard feuded with Def Jam founder Russell Simmons, saying Simmons stoked violence by allowing the common use of words such as "nigga" in rap lyrics.[I just shortened it a bit -12 6]^[1]^[2]^[3] 2603:7000:2143:8500:79D7:90DB:F71F:1BD5 (talk) 23:23, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Had a quick look (responding to a legit edit request requires due diligence) and frankly I can't make head nor tail of the NYPress ref (would need more time to evaluate than I have right now), can't read the NYTimes ref because it requires a subscription, and haven't read the book so am missing context. I assume you'd like this tidbit to go in "Cultural influence"? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 00:48, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Yes, Cultural influences seems the apt section, as it is where there is the greatest discussion of the phrase in rap/hip hop. The Encyclopedia of Rap and Hip-hop Culture at page 356 says "Muhammad (who is now a Christian minister known by his birth name, Conrad Tillard) accused Simmons of condoning violence by refusing to curtail the frequent use of terms such as “ nigga ” and “ bitch ” in rap lyrics." Though not formerly cited - and it refers to a different spelling - supportive of this disagreement having taken place is the reference here at p. 229 in R&B, Rhythm and Business; The Political Economy of Black Music (2002). The NYT ref and NYPress refs can be dispensed with, inasmuch as they speak of the feud between the two but not of the word itself.2603:7000:2143:8500:2446:8158:55F9:494B (talk) 04:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the extra info. I added an |archive-url= to the NYTimes ref as it bypassess the subscription (handy side effect of the good practice). I went looking for more context and discovered that Tillard's article has recently been dramatically altered and have asked on the talk page if any conflict of interest should be declared. I'm going to ask the same thing here and now; Any conflicts of interest need declaring? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 12:01, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No conflicts of interest exist - I don't use the word or know the people involved or belong to the Nation or churches mentioned .. I sometimes listen to the music. And I edit what interests me; if needed be and if interested (these are interesting), extensively. 2603:7000:2143:8500:8523:581D:6E5C:E100 (talk) 18:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear; makes life simpler :) I've started my process of understanding the subject and will make the edit once I'm confident. Peter Noel for The Village Voice provided a clear statement of the issue with context.^[4] Gimme time; not long awake. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Village Voice article is a good source that could more or less carry this on its own, IMO. Cheers --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 14:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers. Currently absorbing a C-Span Hip-Hop Summit 2001 talk while establishing chronological context. I feel like this article from MTV about KRS-One "condemning negative rap imagery at Hip-Hop Summit" might also help. So many tabs open right now, I'm disproving the meme that Chrome is a resource hog ;) Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 16:02, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Although the word feud is indeed bandied about, the situation doesn't appear as simple as originally suggested and as such I will prefer to add something more balanced – not a verbatim addition of the requested edit; I hope this is agreeable. Another perspective to add to the pot: NY Post, May 8, 2001 (please forgive the lazy linking). I need to go out for a few hours, but will get stuck back in later. Of course anyone else can pick it up in the meantime; it takes a village :) Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 17:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting feedback re reliability of a potential source: how do we feel about hiphopandpolitics.com as the source of Hip Hop History: Remembering the Historic 2001 Hip Hop Summit & Farrakhan’s Incredible Speech? Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 18:00, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Please review .. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 04:01, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Will "Hiphop Minister" Conrad Muhammad Go from N.O.I. to G.O.P.?". New York Press. February 16, 2015.
^ Feuer, Alan (June 16, 2003). "Keeping the Faith, Differently; A Harlem Firebrand Quietly Returns to Christianity". The New York Times. Archived from the original on May 27, 2015.
^ Yvonne Bynoe (2006). Encyclopedia of Rap and Hip-hop Culture
^ Noel, Peter (April 24, 2001). "Hip Hop War". The Village Voice.

Fiction

Given that The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man is a work of fiction, I'm not sure that its text can properly be referred to - as is the case now in the article, referring to a fictional conversation in the book -- documenting the use of the word within the black community. I do understand that it reflects (rather than documents) the use of the word in fiction, at the time it was written. Lmk if you see this differently. 2603:7000:2143:8500:2992:7305:2C19:C33E (talk) 05:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Although I can see your point, I can't think how the statement would require fixing; it's not itself inaccurate or misleading, and we shouldn't assume the reader assumes the book is anything other than what it is. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to qualify "the 1912 ~~book>~~novel". Perhaps a non-fictional document of usage from that era or earlier is ideal to lend perspective to the usage as claimed in the fictional work. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That would help. Since it is presented as an autobiography, the presumption would IMHO naturally otherwise be that is it non-fiction. The importance is that fiction need not reflect actual usage. Just as an Asimov science fiction book in 1980 would not reflect actual interplanet voyages of that year--2603:7000:2143:8500:79D2:6917:914C:97A2 (talk) 18:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've switched out book for novel but am having trouble concentrating right now so I'm hands off until I'm firing on more cylinders. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 20:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest usages

I'm not sure what usage is earliest, but here is a usage in an 1800 play. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Aunt_Dinah_s_Pledge/n26eo6fmhpQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nigga&pg=PA10&printsec=frontcover

And here is a usage in a song in 1840: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Lucy_Neale_s_Nigga_Warbler/jnhWAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nigga&printsec=frontcover It seems there were many songs that used it.

And here is usage in an 1853 book. https://www.google.com/books/edition/New_York/DOPeqZQP2D8C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nigga&pg=PA117&printsec=frontcover 2603:7000:2143:8500:79D2:6917:914C:97A2 (talk) 18:48, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Some Words Came from Nigga Like: Green FN Means Green fuck nigga 139.130.136.106 (talk) 05:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 13:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Niga" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Niga has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 16 § Niga until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 15:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the cultural influence part of the page, it states, "One of the earliest uses of the term in a popular song was in the lyrics of the 1983 song "New York New York" by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five", But there is earlier usage in the lyrics of the 1972 song "Pusherman" By Curtis Mayfield, which is also a very popular song. Melancholicdespair2 (talk) 18:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 00:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Habib Malikli

he is the best person ever 185.43.188.22 (talk) 14:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

Shouldn't there also be a mention that it can also be spelled as "niggar"? DannyCCool (talk) 07:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[nypress.com-1] "Will "Hiphop Minister" Conrad Muhammad Go from N.O.I. to G.O.P.?". New York Press. February 16, 2015.

[auto2-2] Feuer, Alan (June 16, 2003). "Keeping the Faith, Differently; A Harlem Firebrand Quietly Returns to Christianity". The New York Times. Archived from the original on May 27, 2015.

[3] Yvonne Bynoe (2006). Encyclopedia of Rap and Hip-hop Culture

[4] Noel, Peter (April 24, 2001). "Hip Hop War". The Village Voice.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]