Talk:Houri

72?

Erm...I don't know if anyone has highlighted this part of the subject matter, but I'll ask anyway with no offensive intent whatsoever;

Why 72? Why is the specified quantity made or established to be 72...?

88.105.103.13 (talk) 19:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not well versed in Islam, but I believe the reference to 72 virgins is not from the Koran, but rather from the Hadith (a collection of traditional sayings attributed to Muhammad -- with some measure of argument about their validity among scholars). Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby." Mkultra007 (talk) 19:12, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

70?

I always heard 72 up until news started coming in from the Iraq War, and then all of a sudden it seemed like it was always 70 ... now it's 72 again. In a Google Bash I get 113,000 for "70 virgins" vs. 237,000 for "72 virgins" (i.e. 1/3 vs. 2/3). Where does the 70 figure come from? Wnt (talk) 05:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Improve Hadith Section

The Houri#Hadith Section could do with rewriting. The grammar makes what little content there is quite difficult to read. Moreover, it doesn't give a clear explanation of what a Hadith is. 62.6.149.17 (talk) 08:41, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Baha'i

The separate article Maid of Heaven (Bahá'í) has been created now. Wiki-uk (talk) 14:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Confusing intro

The intro says "denoting humans and jinn who enter paradise after being recreated anew in the hereafter.[6]" - I found this confusing as it sounds like these are regular people (Muslim men and women)... whereas elsewhere it seems like they are companions for Muslims who have entered paradise.

Is this saying that they were actually humans and jinn on earth? --Chriswaterguy talk 23:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why you find that confusing, meanwhile there is plenty of text in the body that support the idea that they are regular people. Read below what I copied from the main page. As matter of fact companionship and regular people are not contradictory by any means. You can be a companion and a regular person all in one. They are the Muslims that enter paradise among humans and jinns according to the text, and they are companion to each other. Someone can be called a regular person or jinn and a companion (friend), they are two qualities that the same individual can possess. Companionship means friendship. Unless you have some other meaning to being a companion, which in this case there is not, there is no ambiguity here. Where is the confusion?

Qur'an: "And [with them will be their] spouses, raised high: for, behold, We shall have brought them into being in a life renewed, having resurrected them as virgins [Chapter (Surah) Al-Waqi'a (The Event)(56):34-36] And among His wonders is this: He creates for you mates out of your own kind [min anfusikum azwajan, Lit. “from among yourselves mates (spouses, one of the pair)”] so that you might incline towards them, and He engenders love and tenderness between you: in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think! ... And He it is who creates [all life] in the first instance, and then brings it forth anew: and most easy is this for Him, since His is the essence of all that is most sublime in the heavens and on earth, and He alone is almighty, truly wise. [Chapter (Surah) Ar-Rum (The Romans)(30):21...27][37]

Hadith: Al-Hasan Al-Basri says that an old woman came to the messenger of Allah and made a request, O’ Messenger of Allah make Dua that Allah grants me entrance into Jannah. The messenger of Allah replied, O’ Mother, an old woman cannot enter Jannah. That woman started crying and began to leave. The messenger of Allah said, Say to the woman that one will not enter in a state of old age, but Allah will make all the women of Jannah young virgins. Allah Ta’aala says, Lo! We have created them a (new) creation and made them virgins, lovers, equal in age. (Surah Waaqi’ah, 35-37).[50]

Companions: Damrah bin Habib was asked if the Jinns will enter Paradise and he said,`Yes, and they will get married. The Jinns will have Jinn women and the humans will have female humans. quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Rahman (55), ayah (verse) 56 In these [gardens - paradise] will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being [Jinn] will have touched them then [after they have been created again].[57]

Companions of companions Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that the word houri implies the righteous women among mankind who are rewarded with paradise as related in the Tafsir of Tabari quoted by Muhammad Asad in his tafsir "Message of Quran"[31] concerning the following ayah: We have created [their Companions] of special creation, and made them virgin-pure [and undefiled after their old age in this life] (Qur’an, Surah Al-Waqia(56):35-36 Ibn Sirin mentions Abu Huraira using houri to solve a dispute of whether there are more women or men going to paradise.[55]

Explainers of the Qur'an Tabari Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari mentions that all righteous women, however old and decayed they may have been on earth, will be resurrected as virginal maidens and will, like their male counterparts, remain eternally young in paradise.[31] Ibn Kathir says that the houri "are delightful virgins of comparable age who never had sexual intercourse with anyone, whether from mankind or Jinns, before their husbands."[58] by commenting,"in the other life, after they became old in this life, they were brought back while virgin, youthful, being delightfully passionate with their husbands, beautiful, kind and cheerful."[56] Al-Qurtubi reconciled between the hadith of making the majority of the habitants of Hell and Paradise women by suggesting that the women that will form the majority in hell will be among the sinners that will stay there temporarily and will be brought out of Hell and enter Paradise. Thereafter the majority of the people of Paradise will be women.[59] Fakhr al-Din al-Razi comments that the companions of paradise mentioned in Qur'an 44:54 include “[even] those toothless old women of yours whom God will resurrect as new beings”[60] and observes that inasmuch as a person’s eye reflects his soul more clearly than any other part of the human body in Qur'an 52: 20.[31]

It is very clear that by all the above means of explanation these are regular people meaning regular humans and jinn living in paradise after being resurrected again. So to answer your question "yes they were actual humans and jinn on earth and they are still humans and jinn but now not on earth but in paradise Studentoftruth (talk) 19:10, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The companions are feminine in gender. Read the Quran Arabic corpus and find the form of the noun used. It is feminine. Do not remove contributions that have a factual support. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MyTwoCopperCoins (talk • contribs) 23:09, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

You are clearly contradicting the following section in the main article and creating a lot of confusion:

Classical Arabic usage

According to classical Arabic usage in the time when the Qur'an was recited by Muhammad, Hur'in is made of two words Hur as well as In. The word 'Hur' is the plural of both Ahwar (Masculine) and Hawra (Feminine) which literally translates as "white-eyed", or persons distinguished by Hawar, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." (ref: Qamus ), hence 'the purity' (ref: Tafsir al'Tabari, and Tafsir al-Razi in 3:52). And as for the phrase, "In it is the plural of both 'Ayan' (Masculine) and 'Ainao' (Feminine)", it was also used to refer to the beautiful eyes of the wild-cow whose eyes are blond. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, it seems that the most appropriate English rendering of the compound word Hur'In might be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye." and it is applicable to both male and female.

Even though parts of Qur'an talk to the male figure there is a clear message that includes both humans.

For example:

The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise. ( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter 9, Verse 71)

Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah. that is the supreme felicity. ( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter 9, Verse 72)

women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable. ( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter 24, Verse 26)

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah.s praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. ( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter 33, Verse 35)

and so on, verses are numerous. Unless you have evidence that exemptions are made based on gender, the general principle is that is refers to both genders even though it is addressing the man.

Are only the females going to be ressurected as virgins as the Qur'an says? The clear answer is NO!!! Males will be resurrected as virgins too. Recreation is for both. Unless you have evidence to suggest males are not going to be virgins and pure when resurrected, you are relying on mere allusion.

Read the following hadith:

Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle said, "The people will be gathered barefooted, naked, and uncircumcised." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Will the men and the women look at each other?" He said, "The situation will be too hard for them to pay attention to that." (Sahih Bukhari, Book 76, Hadith 34)

What is "uncircumcised" referring to? To males ONLY. But then how does the question go "Will the men and the women look at each other?" So even though it talks about the qualities of a group of people in this case males (uncircumcised, virgins) it means even the women which by the way don't get circumcised as the males do.

The point you are trying to make is included in the Qur'an section, read it carefully:

...although their descriptive qualities are feminine, as alluded to, by the Hadiths...

So it is the descriptive qualities and not the words itself feminine gender to start with!!! I think you can understand that gender specific descriptive qualities do not necessarily say that the other gender is not included, that is why after so many verses referring to the male figure, all other verses affirming same thing for females and males alike were revealed, because some people insinuated the same thing you are trying to do.

(Studentoftruth (talk) 04:28, 8 April 2011 (UTC))

Islamic female circumcision exists and is practised by Muslims in several countries. Circumcised cannot only refer to males, in such a context.

In Surah 78:33, the noun for the Arabic word relating to "companion" is feminine, the words describe feminine attributes and the traditional acceptance has been of the "companions" being feminine - to the point that barely any Hadiths (if any, even) speak of them in the masculine sense. Your explanation of the "descriptive qualities" is weak, and without any basis.

"Women of purity for men of purity" has no bearing on the fact that the "companions" are terminologically feminine, as women according to the Quran enjoin their husbands in "paradise", the latter additionally receiving the feminine "companions". Islamic polygamy supports this conclusion, and refutes your weak argument thoroughly.

Selectively deeming Hadiths as "weak" or "strong" is used as a tactic to "justify" anything. --MyTwoCopperCoins (talk) 09:58, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Female circumcision has never been established in Islam, practiced by many people as happen to be Muslims but in a traditional sense in those regions is practiced by people of other religions. Go do your own research on the topic if not convinced. No one is saying houri are not female and that is human recreated females...but what you claim is that males are excluded from the general meaning... houri itself is not feminine in gender. I told you in most cases Qur'an addresses the males but it is made clear within the same book that does not mean the females are excluded.

Of course companions of males are gonna be females and vice versa, do you see any verse where says females are gonna have female companions? I have no patience to discuss polygamy now, but to say that as much as it allows, the wife can put in her contract of marriage that the husband marries no other female beside her. This is a long discussion...but Qur'an says it is closer to justice to marry one. How you missed that part, I wonder in your selective readings.

Descriptive qualities are well established in grammar as often as two people are referred with same name! Go learn some classical arabic grammar before you claim anything.

Hadiths are a science of their own! I do not have time to explain you this well-established science. Read on your own!

Then have you read in main article pair?

"Thus shall it be. And We shall pair(zawajnahoom: pair them, marry them). Note zawj (lit., “a pair” or - according to the context - “one of a pair”) applies to either of the two sexes,a man to a woman and a woman to a man, as does the transitive verb zawaja, “he paired” or “joined”, i.e., one person with another)them with companions pure, most beautiful of eye."[Chapter (Surah) Ad-Dukhan (The Smoke)(44):54]

"And [with them will be their] spouses, raised high: for, behold, We shall have brought them into being in a life renewed, having resurrected them as virgins [Chapter (Surah) Al-Waqi'a (The Event)(56):34-36]

And among His wonders is this: He creates for you mates out of your own kind [min anfusikum azwajan, Lit. “from among yourselves mates (spouses, one of the pair)”] so that you might incline towards them, and He engenders love and tenderness between you: in this, behold, there are messages indeed for people who think! ... And He it is who creates [all life] in the first instance, and then brings it forth anew: and most easy is this for Him, since His is the essence of all that is most sublime in the heavens and on earth, and He alone is almighty, truly wise. [Chapter (Surah) Ar-Rum (The Romans)(30):21...27]

Houri are female humans (not additional non-human companions (!?!)) as you claim. According to leading tafsir and Muslim scholars. Abu Ubayda said that the recreated women of this life referring to

"We have created [their Companions] of special creation, and made them virgin-pure [and undefiled after their old age in this life] (Qur’an, Surah Al-Waqia(56):35-36)

were mentioned in the previous verse:

"And Hur (fair females) with wide lovely eyes. Like preserved pearls."(Qur'an, Surah Al-Waqia(56):22)

quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Waqia (56), ayah (verse) 35-36

Artat bin Al-Mundhir said:

"Damrah bin Habib was asked if the Jinns will enter Paradise and he said,`Yes, and they will get married. The Jinns will have Jinn women and the humans will have female humans. ' "

quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Rahman (55), ayah (verse) 56:

"In these [gardens - paradise] will be mates of modest gaze, whom neither man nor invisible being [Jinn] will have touched them then [after they have been created again]."

Female humans and jinn humans, that die and have been resurrected as the males, not additional whatever...companions, humans are humans...is it unclear what a resurrected female human is or a resurrected male human for that matter?

Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that the word houri implies the righteous women among mankind who are rewarded with paradise as related in the Tafsir of Tabari quoted by Muhammad Asad in his tafsir "Message of Quran" concerning the following ayah: Same for males:

Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari mentions that all righteous women, however old and decayed they may have been on earth, will be resurrected as virginal maidens and will, like their male counterparts, remain eternally young in paradise. comparable age who never had sexual intercourse with anyone, whether from mankind or Jinns, before their husbands." by commenting,"in the other life, after they became old in this life, they were brought back while virgin, youthful, being delightfully passionate with their husbands, beautiful, kind and cheerful."

Al-Qurtubi reconciled between the hadith of making the majority of the inhabitants of Hell and Paradise women by suggesting that the women that will form the majority in hell will be among the sinners that will stay there temporarily and will be brought out of Hell and enter Paradise. Thereafter the majority of the people of Paradise will be women.

Fakhr al-Din al-Razi comments that the companions of paradise mentioned in Qur'an 44:54 include “[even] those toothless old women of yours whom God will resurrect as new beings” and observes that inasmuch as a person’s eye reflects his soul more clearly than any other part of the human body in Qur'an 52: 20.

These are well known Muslim scholars. If you do not have the slightest idea, go to a library and read about them. I can assure you they are not some made up website mistranslating words.

I do not see "additional" nowhere in Qur'an! I wanna know where this "additional" is, if anywhere at all.(Studentoftruth (talk) 22:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC))

Christoph Luxenberg

This article does not have any reference to the new interpretation and translation of German scholar Christoph Luxenberg (author of The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran) which derives the word "houri" (which does not have an Arabic etymology) from Aramaic and Syro-Aramaic Christian mythology and translates it as "grapes in paradise". See this YouTube video.