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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Gaia Octavia Agrippa (talk | contribs) at 00:24, 19 December 2024 (→Articles created/expanded on December 12: Adding Template:Did you know nominations/Colin Platt (DYK-wizard)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

DYK queue status

There are currently 3 filled queues. Admins, please consider promoting a prep to queue if you have the time!

To discuss the content or layout of the Template:Did you know page itself, go to Wikipedia talk:Did you know.
Did you know?
Introduction and rules
IntroductionWP:DYK
General discussionWT:DYK
GuidelinesWP:DYKCRIT
Reviewer instructionsWP:DYKRI
Nominations
Nominate an articleWP:DYKCNN
Awaiting approvalWP:DYKN
ApprovedWP:DYKNA
April 1 hooksWP:DYKAPRIL
Holding areaWP:SOHA
Preparation
Preps and queuesT:DYK/Q
Prepper instructionsWP:DYKPBI
Admin instructionsWP:DYKAI
Main Page errorsWP:ERRORS
History
StatisticsWP:DYKSTATS
Archived setsWP:DYKA
Just for fun
Monthly wrapsWP:DYKW
AwardsWP:DYKAWARDS
UserboxesWP:DYKUBX
Hall of FameWP:DYK/HoF
List of users ...
... by nominationsWP:DYKNC
... by promotionsWP:DYKPC
Administrative
Scripts and botsWP:DYKSB
On the Main Page
Main Page errorsWP:ERRORS
To ping the DYK admins{{DYK admins}}
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For instructions on how to nominate an article, see Template:DYK nomination header § Instructions for nominators.
"Template:Did you know nominations" redirects here. For the list of approved nominations, see Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, purge it.

Count of DYK Hooks
Section # of Hooks # Verified
September 27 1 1
October 3 1 1
October 18 2 1
October 19 2 2
October 20 1 1
October 24 2 1
October 25 1
October 28 3 2
October 31 2 1
November 1 2
November 2 2 1
November 3 2 2
November 4 4 1
November 5 3 1
November 7 2 1
November 8 3 1
November 9 3 2
November 10 3 1
November 11 3 3
November 13 3 3
November 14 1 1
November 15 4 3
November 16 3 2
November 17 2
November 18 5 4
November 19 6 3
November 20 6 6
November 21 12 10
November 22 8 6
November 23 1 1
November 24 5 5
November 25 6 5
November 26 5 3
November 27 8 7
November 28 4 3
November 29 10 8
November 30 6 6
December 1 9 8
December 2 5 4
December 3 7 6
December 4 9 9
December 5 8 6
December 6 2
December 7 1
December 8
December 9
December 10 3
December 11 1
December 12 2
December 13 6
December 14 1
December 15 4
December 16 2
December 17 2
December 18 6
December 19 8
December 20 6
Total 219 132
Last updated 00:25, 21 December 2024 UTC
Current time is 00:46, 21 December 2024 UTC [refresh]

Instructions for nominators

Shortcut

If this is your first nomination, please read the DYK rules before continuing. Further information can be found at the DYK guidelines.

Nominate an article

Frequently asked questions

How do I write an interesting hook?

Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.

When will my nomination be reviewed?

This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below). Because of WP:DYKTIMEOUT, a nomination should be reviewed within two months since the reviewer/promoter may agree to reject and close an unpromoted hook after that time has passed.

Where is my hook?

If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.

If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.


Instructions for reviewers

Main page: Wikipedia:Did you know/Reviewing guide

Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.

To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:

  • Look through this page, Template talk:Did you know, to find a nomination you would like to comment on.
  • Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
  • The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
  • To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:

    Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.

    If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING  :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
  • Save the page.
  • After the nomination is approved, a bot will automatically list the nomination page on Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.

Advanced procedures

How to promote an accepted hook

At-a-glance instructions on how to promote an approved hook to a prep area
Check list for nomination review completeness
  1. Select a hook from the approved nominations page that has one of these ticks at the bottom post: .
  2. Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed.
    • Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting.
  3. Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed.
  4. Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by KrinkleBot.
  5. Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated).
  6. Hook should make sense grammatically.
  7. Try to vary subject matters within each prep area.
  8. Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set.
Steps to add a hook to prep
  • In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote.
  • In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to.

Wanna skip all this fuss? Install WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :)

  1. For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on DYK Queue.
    • Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number.
  2. Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot.
    • Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end.
    • Check that there's a bold link to the article.
  3. If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template.
  4. Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the {{DYKmake}} and {{DYKnom}} templates) at the bottom
  5. Check your work in the prep's Preview mode.
    • At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake.
  6. Save the Prep page.
Closing the DYK nomination page
  1. At the upper left
    • Change {{DYKsubpage to {{subst:DYKsubpage
    • Change |passed= to |passed=yes
  2. At the bottom
    • Just above the line containing

      }}<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.-->

      insert a new, separate line containing one of the following:
      To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
      To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
      To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
      To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
      To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
      To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
      To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
    • Also paste the same thing into the edit summary.
  3. Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like }}, at the top or bottom.
  4. Save.

For more information, please see T:TDYK#How to promote an accepted hook.

Handy copy sources:

  • To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]

How to remove a rejected hook

  • Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
  • In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.

How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue

  • Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
  • Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
    • View the edit history for that page
    • Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
    • Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
  • Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
  • If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.

How to move a nomination subpage to a new name

  • Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.

Nominations

Older nominations

Articles created/expanded on September 27

Phoebe Plummer

( Comment or view )
Created by Launchballer (talk) and Folkezoft (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 253 past nominations.

Launchballer 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Ooh, a quadruple hook. All of the articles are new enough, long enough, and well cited. There are a few places where phrasing could be a bit more neutral (I feel like inspired would be better than empowered, for example), but those may also be stylstic considerations. Earwig isn't happy, but it's the large block quote that speaks to Plummer's inspiration in that instance. Ideally Hehir's article would have a bit more on his early life, but if the sources aren't talking about it, rather difficult. (Minor quibble: the source says "unfortunately" rather than "unfortunate", but I think it works here).  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been sitting near the top of Approved for over a week. What else do I have to do to get this promoted? (For the record, I believe "unfortunately" --> "unfortunate" is covered by MOS:SIC.)--Launchballer 02:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted there.--Launchballer 03:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have started an AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 18

White Party (Sean Combs)

(
)
Created by No Swan So Fine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 122 past nominations.

No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Hello No Swan So Fine: article created within a week of nomination; QPQ checks out; hook is interesting; no copyvio detected; source checks out. My only question: would it be better to call Mr. Combs by his more well known name of P. Diddy or Diddy? I'm not sure if I'd click on the DYK if it said Sean Combs, I'd be much more likely to do so if it said Diddy, given the recent news and memes. My only thought. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 05:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Darth Stabro: I think we should respect the name he currently goes by ... but P. Diddy is certainly better for views! No Swan So Fine (talk) 19:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No Swan So Fine sounds good! Nihil obstat. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 04:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Darth Stabro and No Swan So Fine: I have MOS:EGG concerns regarding the hook, in that no-one will know where the bolded link goes. Any way to rephrase? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 ... that during one of his Diddy parties, Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?
Not sure if the hook needs to specify "an original copy of", and I have no opinion if the hook should say "P Diddy" or not, though depending on how he was called at the time, maybe that might be a point of discussion? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like how that sounds.~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 00:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5: I think "an original copy of" would be overkill as the meaning is clear without it. I'm going to suggest ALT2: ... that during one of his Diddy parties, P. Diddy promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?; a promoter can take their pick.--Launchballer 23:23, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on October 24

A Nail Clipper Romance

(
)
Created by Prince of Erebor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 22 past nominations.

Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 06:17, 24 October 2024 (UTC). [reply]

Sources
  1. ^ 羅偉強 (16 April 2017). "【指甲刀人魔】彭浩翔關智耀專訪 拆解人魔由來". HK01 (in Chinese). Retrieved 24 October 2024. 《指甲刀人魔》雲集兩岸三地演員，而香港代表僅得鄭伊健一人。在戲中作為唯一香港演員，卻不融入一眾內地與台灣演員中一起說普通話，到底為什麼有這樣的安排呢？莫非導演想令《指甲刀人魔》保留多一點香港氣息？原來導演與監製別有心思。「我們想演員以他最熟悉的語言去演繹，會令他以最自然的狀態去完成演出。」關智耀這樣說。而一旁的彭浩翔則從夏威夷的角色出發，他說：「我們在夏威夷所見的，就是很多華人根本就是廣東話與普通話夾雜。他們有一部分人從香港來，亦有部分從內地台灣來。因此我們覺得鄭伊健說廣東話，而其他人說普通話是很夏威夷的一件事。」無論原因是何，作為香港人的大家在戲中聽著伊健講廣東話，都會有多一分親切感吧。 [The film A Nail Clipper Romance features a cast from China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, with only Ekin Cheng representing Hong Kong. As the sole actor from Hong Kong, he does not speak Mandarin alongside the Chinese and Taiwanese actors. Why is this arrangement in place? Could it be that the director wants to retain a bit of Hong Kong’s essence in A Nail Clipper Romance? It turns out the director and producer have their reasons. "We want the actors to perform in the language they are most comfortable with, as it allows them to present their most natural state", says director Jason Kwan. Meanwhile, Pang Ho-cheung reflects on the Hawaiian context, stating, "What we see in Hawaii is that many Chinese people mix Cantonese and Mandarin. Some come from Hong Kong, while others come from the mainland and Taiwan. Therefore, we felt that having Ekin Cheng speak Cantonese while the others speak Mandarin is very representative of Hawaii". Regardless of the reason, as Hong Kongers, hearing Ekin speak Cantonese in the film adds a sense of familiarity and warmth.]
  2. ^ Ku, Daniel (6 April 2017). "愛情奇幻喜劇《指甲刀人魔》，張孝全、周冬雨夏威夷浪漫談情". Vogue Taiwan (in Chinese). Retrieved 7 October 2024. 到2010年，彭導與網路大電影合作，拍了名為《4夜奇譚》的網路短片系列，其中一夜就是由曾國祥和尹志文執導的《指甲刀人魔》，女主角更是找來周迅。當時影片獲得極高評價，大家都想知道故事的後續發展，因此彭導便有延伸為長篇電影的計畫，只是沒想到計畫一擱就是七年。 [By 2010, director Pang [Ho-cheung] collaborated with an online production company to create a series of web shorts called 4+1 Project, one of which is A Nail Clipper Romance, directed by Derek Tsang and Jimmy Wan, starring Zhou Xun as the female lead. At the time, the film was positively received, and everyone wanted to know what happened next in the story. As a result, Pang decided to expand it into a feature film, although the project ended up being put on hold for seven years.]
  3. ^ "鄭伊健去夏威夷拍戲勁開心 周冬雨讚張孝全性格夠獨特". Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). 9 March 2017. Archived from the original on 12 March 2017. Retrieved 7 October 2024. 由於全片在夏威夷取景，周冬雨因此愛上衝浪，她更透露跟監製彭浩翔一起衝浪有無比的榮耀感，彭浩翔學了七八節課，但她學了兩節就追上了。 [Since the entire film is shot in Hawaii, Zhou Dongyu falls in love with surfing. She also reveals that she was proud to surf with producer Pang Ho-cheung, as Pang took seven or eight lessons, while she only took two lessons before catching up to him.]
  4. ^ 翁新涵 (25 November 2016). "尷尬了╱阮經天緋聞女友 來台喊許瑋甯「奶奶」". Nownews (in Chinese). Retrieved 21 October 2024. 根據周冬雨表示，她主演的新片《指甲刀人魔》，有邀請許瑋甯客串 [According to Zhou Dongyu, in her new film A Nail Clipper Romance, [she] did invite Tiffany Ann Hsu to make a cameo appearance.]
  5. ^ Wong, Silva (16 March 2017). "'Love Off The Cuff' director talks Hong Kong festival opener". Screen Daily. Retrieved 24 October 2024. Despite his busy schedule as a writer/director, Pang takes time out to produce for new filmmakers such as Wan, Luk and Jason Kwan, the DoP on both Love In A Puff and Love In The Buff. The latter's directorial debut A Nail Clipper Romance, starring Zhou Dongyu and Joseph Chang, opens on April 14.
  • Comment: @Prince of Erebor: A few things stand out to me: the poor critical reception/box office performance? is played down in the lead section in a somewhat ingenious way, by emphasizing the positive reviews of the short film it is based upon. I think you should fix that as it presents a neutrality issue. In other words, summarize the reception in the lead, not the previous work. The other thing I noticed is that the article says the film took place in the state of Hawaii several times. While it’s fine to say that at least once, subsequent mention should specify it was filmed specifically on the island of Oahu in and around the city of Honolulu, if the sources can support that. There are also opportunities to link to specific articles about the Chinese population in Hawaii. Leaning towards ALT2 at the moment although I wonder if it can be made more interesting than it is with other details. More later. Viriditas (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hi Viriditas! Thanks a lot for taking up the review, but I beg to differ with both of your current suggestions. The "positive reviews" in the lead refer to the short film, which explains why a full-length feature was developed afterward, and this is supported by multiple sources. I do not find this description to be faulty. Meanwhile, I have not found any sources that comment on or summarize the critical reception and box office performance. From the current reviews listed, I do not believe it is conclusive that the film was poorly received, as some critics have given it 3.5/5 and expressed various positive opinions on the premise, themes, and performances. Regarding box office performance, it is also subjective to judge whether it is positive or negative, as arthouse films like this one typically gross less than blockbusters. I would summarize the box office performance as poor only if supported by multiple sources, like in Miss Shampoo or The Invincible Dragon. For your second suggestion, I have only mentioned the film being shot in Hawaii once in the filming section. The other mentions focus on different topics, like casting choices or creative decisions based on the demographics of Hawaiians. There are no specific references to the filming locations in Hawaii, so I cannot specify which part of Hawaii the film was shot in. I am also unsure if mentioning the specific location has any bearing on why the crew chose to film there or why Ekin Cheng was willing to join the project. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 18:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, I believe we are still on the same page. I am aware that mixed reviews exist, I have used this term in another recent article of mine (Get the Hell Out). In that case, the inclusion was based on a cited Rotten Tomatoes score of 5.9, so it does not involve original research. Many film articles lack a summary of critical reception exactly because of WP:SYNTH. An example that come to mind is Deadpool and Wolverine, where editors voted not to include a critical reception summary in the lead due to concerns about SYNTH. There are also no sources indicating that the film failed at the box office. While it may not have grossed enough to make the list of top grossing films in 2017, that does not equate to it being a box office bomb, and I still see the assertion as a form of OR. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, but it appears that you are still misreading me. Please summarize the critical reception to the best of your ability (as I described above) and place it in the lead section. The specific decision and rationale not to include a critical reception section in Deadpool and Wolverine does not apply here. Further, that film received mostly positive reviews, so the dispute in that particular instance isn't really relevant. We know D&W received a positive, critical reception. One of the problems here is how accurate or inaccurate Metacritic scores are in this regard, and that led to the perception that D&W received a less than positive reception. That's really getting into the weeds, and there's no similar problem here. However, you could ask, did this film receive mostly positive reviews, did it receive mixed reviews, or did it receive poor reviews? Whatever your answer is, please briefly mention it in the lead. By describing a different film as "positive" and ignoring the critical reception in the lead, you are giving readers a false impression of what the reception was actually like. This is a problem. Viriditas (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Viriditas, sorry but I believe you are also misreading me. I have already acknowledged your concern that the term "positive reviews" could mislead readers regarding the reception of this film, and I proposed removing the mention of the short film's reception. (But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception.) This should have already addressed your concerns about neutrality or misleading information. The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. Adding a summary (positive, mixed, negative, whatever) you are suggesting is purely original research and a synthesis of the sources. If there are no sources or review aggregators to support the claim that the article is generally viewed as positive, divisive, or negative by critics, then adding my own assessment of their opinions would be considered SYNTH. I am also somewhat puzzled by this conversation, as identifying OR should be WP editing 101 and my concerns about WP:V should be quite clear. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. No, it's actually quite different. It is not OR to summarize or to state the critical reception for this film in the lead and there's literally no connection to the arguments made in the D&W article, which received overwhelmingly positive reviews. This is why ignoring the critical reception in the lead for D&W is the default, as it received mostly positive, not negative feedback. I can assure you, if D&W had received a negative reception, the default would have been to mention that. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. Do you see how this works? The opposite is true here. You are free, of course, to do what you like, but priming the reader with mentioning a "positive" review of an altogether different film while ignoring the poor to mediocre, to mixed reviews (and box office performance) of this film is a neutrality issue. I'm once again sorry that we see this so differently. Perhaps you will find others to agree with your position. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem overwhelmingly positive to you, there are also negative reviews out there. In fact, all four wording options discussed in that survey addressed the non-positive, divisive reviews. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. The current critical response section also included negative reviews from like San Francisco Chronicle, The Hollywood Reporter, and one-star review from The Irish Times. So no, that is not the case. It is because reviews from an opposite stance exist, a positive/mixed reception summary would not be appropriate. This echoes my point that adding a subjective summary suggesting that the film underperformed based on what you and I think, constitutes original research. I have also repeatedly acknowledged your concern that the positive reception of the short film in the lead is misleading and have offered to remove that line. (I have rephrased it just now and I hope this address your concerns.) So I do not really see a reason to continue adding a summary of the reception and box office performance. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's definitely an improvement, but I do want to say that I see zero relationship between the argument made in the D&W discussion, which defaults to the absence of negative critical commentary in the lead based on all of the available evidence, as well as an indication that the critical reception was first and foremost controversial, and this article, which did not receive a positive reception and where the critical reception was not controversial. There's literally no comparison. I get that you are making this comparison, but it doesn't exist, IMO. Now, if you think the critical reception of this film was controversial, I am happy to review the matter, and if true, that is indeed, a supporting argument for keeping it out of the lead. But as far as I can tell, the critics and the audiences didn't like this film and it performed poorly at the box office. By keeping this out of the lead, it gives the impression of a neutrality problem. Now, with all that said, the question becomes, does it need to be in the lead? Aside from obvious controversies where representing the critical reception is difficult or disputed (i.e. D&W), I would say yes, but with the additional caveat that local consensus, as we've seen with D&W, can override this, particularly in instances where the default position doesn't deviate from the overall reception. It might help to get clarification from the film project talk page on this. They are usually pretty active, even during the holidays. The NPOV noticeboard might even be a better place, I don't know. However, keeping it out of the lead does not appear neutral to me at all. More so, if the sources emphasize that the film was received poorly with critics and the box office. So we are still divided on this subtopic. I would prefer to work towards an agreement on this with you, but I don't think that's going to happen. One other thing: have you added critical reception to the lead before in your other film articles that notes a poor, mediocre, or mixed reception status? If so, what makes this article different than the others? If not, why not? Your careful reasoning and answer to those two questions could conceivably bring me over to your side, leading me to drop this. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viriditas , sorry, but I still only see you asserting that critics and audiences didn't like this film and that it performed poorly at the box office. Based on what is currently in the article, there are at least some positive to mediocre reviews, and the total gross exceeds the film's budget. It is hardly accurate to describe it as having a negative reception or being a box office bomb. Labeling the film in this way is just your subjective judgement based on what you have seen about the film and it truly harms the article's neutrality. While if the reception is mixed and the box office performance is merely average, whether or not to mention these is unrelated to neutrality and I do not see the urge to add such phrases. I am generally open to adding or removing content from articles, like I would be happy to include the precise filming locations you mentioned if sources are available, but this just seems like original research to me. I also do not see the necessity to escalate this, as again, I think this is WP editing 101. But I would not object to seeking a third opinion.
  • Regarding your final question, yes, I certainly do. Examples include positive reviews for Mongrel (2024 film), mixed reviews for Get the Hell Out, and negative reviews for The Invincible Dragon. My rationale for adding a summary is based on the existence of a conclusive consensus among critics' opinions. For these articles, there are Rotten Tomatoes scores, which aggregate all critical reviews and can be interpreted as the consensus of the majority of critics. There are exceptions, like 18×2 Beyond Youthful Days, where multiple reputable sources describe the film as both a box office and critical success. But in this case, there is neither a consensus summarized by review aggregators nor multiple reliable sources. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Was this film a box office success or a box office bomb? In other words, did it break even by a large amount? When you look at the budget and compare it to the raw, unadjusted revenue, it looks like the film made US $34,000 dollars. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong? Also, your own source says it did poorly at the box office and implies it lost money because in that market romantic films do poorly. We're still not on the same page. I have not fully analyzed the critical reviews just yet so I'm keeping that separate until later. But it appears that in terms of the box office, the sources say it did not do well. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Viriditas: Yes, you have read things wrong. The film had a budget of USD$386,000 (HKD$3 million) excluding government funding, and grossed approximately USD$620,000 (RMB$4.49 million). I would not classify it as a box office success, and I am not well-versed in the film industry and cannot determine how much profit or loss the production company made based on these figures. However, it is common sense that a gross greater than the budget would not typically qualify as a box office bomb. Regarding the translated source, it refers to Zhou Dongyu's other film The Breaking Ice (燃冬), not this one (A Nail Clipper Romance; 指甲刀人魔). I am the one who added that source so of course I know what was written there... I have found no sources indicating that this film was a "box office failure". Please share any you might find. To be honest, I am starting to find this discussion somewhat pointless, as neither of us seems able to convince the other. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 22:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • 4.9 million including government funding, 3 million excluding. Do you really think I do not know what I typed in the article??
  • Okay Viriditas, let me be clear. I believe your request to add a subjective summary labeling the film as poorly received and a box office failure constitutes blatant original research and violates WP:V. Your concerns about WP:NPOV have already been addressed with the removal of the short film's reception (which was actually sourced) from the lead. Even if a summary were included, it would only reflect "mixed reviews" and "average box office performance", which does not relate to your concerns about misleading or sugarcoating the film's actual reception. Since not adding a summary would no longer have anything to do with WP:NPOV, but adding one could impact both verifiability and neutrality imo, I refuse to include these policy-violating claims in the article. So we can either continue the review and set this issue aside, as your concerns have been adequately addressed, or you may choose to seek a third opinion, though I believe that is totally unnecessary. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 22:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know why you think summarizing the critical reception in the lead is a policy violation. That is an extremely unusual idea. Last comment to address the previous ones I ignored: "If a film released in theatres fails to break even by a large amount, it is considered a box-office bomb." List of biggest box-office bombs lists dozens of films that made more than their budget. That is neither here nor there. To address your previous point, you said I was citing material about a different film, but looking at it again after your criticism, it appears to be referring to this film. Here’s the material I was referring to: 和关智斌、张孝全等人主演的《指甲刀人魔》票房449.9万元。事实证明，演员能不能扛票房真的不好说，有运气和选剧本的能力左右，比如吴京主演的《巨齿鲨2》票房不如第一部，还有沈腾演出的《超能一家人》票房才3亿多，所以没有演员敢拍着胸膛说自己主演的电影票房一定大卖。当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影，其实制作成本可能也不是很高，但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片，所以她的票房都不怎么样，爱情片的票房本身就不是很高，特别偏文艺片的电影。If that means something else, let me know. My reading of this (当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影，其实制作成本可能也不是很高，但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片，所以她的票房都不怎么样，爱情片的票房本身就不是很高，特别偏文艺片的电影) is that it is referring to both films. Also, throughout this discussion you have insisted that I have wanted to add a qualitative statement to the lead, but you ignored the original question mark in my initial comment, identifying that I don’t know what that statement should actually be. I’ve tried to explain this to you, but you keep repeating the same thing for some odd reason. The questions remain: "how did critics receive this film and how well did it do at the box office?" As the reader, I wanted to know the answer. When I read the lead, I expected to find out, only to discover than an altogether different film received a positive reception, not this one. That is my last and final comment on this matter. Viriditas (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Viriditas, yes, I have already mentioned that the source did not address this. The source lists the box office grosses of Zhou Dongyu's entire filmography, ranging from A Fangirl's Romance at USD 329,000 to Embrace Again at USD 129 million. Even if you are viewing it through Google Translate, you can still see the listings and it is separated into different paragraphs. So the statements you quoted obviously do not refer to A Nail Clipper Romance, otherwise the $129 million gross would also become a box office failure. And no, I did not ignore your statements. I have repeatedly mentioned that mixed reviews fall under SYNTH as well, but you have repeatedly focused on the poor reception you perceive in your replies, which is why I feel the need to address it more often than the other potential stances. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 23:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I said I wasn't going to revisit the above, so I won't. The problem of synth in regards to critical reception in lead sections was a specific, local consensus problem for D&W, not for other film articles. This was because of the unique set of circumstances regarding the sources. This was made clear in the responses by the participants. You are extrapolating the result of an article content page RFC out to all film leads. That's not how an article-specific RFC works at all. See WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. It may be wise to get some input from the larger film community over at their project page. Viriditas (talk) 23:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles". Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Therefore, I raised another article that also has a divisive reception and involved thorough discussions among editors regarding the decision to omit the reception summary, that aligns with the rationale I am proposing here. My intention was to provide a noteworthy example, one that is more high-traffic and has a relatively large number of participants in the RFC, to ensure we are on the same page and that the summary is not left out for other reasons or merely reflecting the consensus of a handful of random editors. Of course, I understand if you view the concerns raised by the editors in that RFC as specific to that article and reflective of a mere local consensus, as context always matters. I only hope this gives you a clearer picture of my and at least some editors' perspectives about the potential SYNTHiness in the lead reception summary. D&W is just an example, synthesis is my main point, and I have explained my rationale on adding these summaries as well. Perhaps we have different interpretations of the definition of OR, which is perfectly fine, as editors often have varying views on WP guidelines. I have already offered to remove the potentially NPOV-violating weasel words that has disturbed you multiple times (since my second reply), in hopes of truly addressing the issues. However, you have ignored this and instead continue to push for the addition of a summary that you deem necessary, without fully addressing why you believe SYNTH does not apply to the reception summary in this case, convincing me that the poor reception is supported by RS rather than personal opinions, or providing a new rationale after the NPOV concerns have been addressed. Therefore, as I said, while I would not object to seeking a third opinion to move this review forward, I still find it unnecessary because, to me, this is a clear case of SYNTH, and I do not find it beneficial to continue wasting time on it.
  • Regarding the source, Sino-Cinema.com appeared to be a WP:RSPWORDPRESS blog to me. But upon checking the author, I would not object that Derek Elley may be considered a SME due to his career at Variety, and the filming locations are not controversial claims that would require the best, reputable sources, so I will treat this as a SPS. It is a nice addition, as it even details the filming period as late 2014, while the Screen Daily source only vaguely suggested the timeframe. I have added it to the article. Thanks for your finding!! —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 04:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second opinion requested. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 25

Boxheim Documents

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SPD poster for the 1932 Prussian state election using these documents to attack the NSDAP
SPD poster for the 1932 Prussian state election using these documents to attack the NSDAP
  • Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
Created by Jean Po (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Jean Po (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • The article was made on the 25th, so is new enough. At many times the required length, it is long enough. The article reads neutrally and properly uses in-line citations. The copyvio detector finds nothing outside of explicit quotes in the article. Both hooks are interesting and cited in-line and utilized properly from the listed sources. The suggested image is in the public domain and visibly identifiable. No QPQ needs to be done. Looks good to go! SilverserenC 01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. SilverserenC 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Citations added. --Jean Po (talk) 17:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jean Po: Apologies for not responding earlier. ALT2 would need end-of-sentence citations rather than just trans tags.--Launchballer 13:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done--Jean Po (talk) 13:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't.--Launchballer 02:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Launchballer, further edits were made yesterday. Do they suffice to supply the needed citations? BlueMoonset (talk) 02:23, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't. It's the ones in the paragraph starting "In addition," that need end of sentence citations.--Launchballer 13:51, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find it to be much less interesting.--Launchballer 01:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on October 28

Chromakopia

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  • ... that the physical version of Chromakopia contains an extra song?
  • ... that Tyler's album-related truck could be seen in Tyler?
    • 5x expanded by MontanaMako (talk).
    • Reviewed:
    Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    MontanaMako (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Narutolovehinata5; just added a new one. Is it any better? MontanaMako (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Will leave the decision to another reviewer, but it's better than the original. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    New reviewer needed. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • @MontanaMako: Page is new enough and long enugh, nominator QPQ exempt, hook fact checks out. I can't approve yet, as I need a citation on Music critics characterized Chromakopia as an early midlife crisis album revolving around the concerns young adults have over their newfound adulthood. Its protagonist, St. Chroma, is introduced on the opening track of the same name. ALT1 is the only way this gets done possibly with a different wording (as an option): Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT1a: ... that trucks in Tyler promoted Tyler's latest album?
    Placing a DYK? icon to indicate that a review has been done. Flibirigit (talk) 06:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @MontanaMako: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:20, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: I’m sort of a Wikipedia newbie, so I’m a bit confused. Do you need me to find a source for the sentence given or need me to do something else? MontanaMako (talk) 14:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that's exactly what I need.--Launchballer 13:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on October 31

    Details Cannot Body Wants

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    Created by Imbluey2 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Imbluey2. Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 06:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: @Imbluey2: Article is new enough. Hook is interesting. I made a few minor copyedits to the article. The article doesn't actually say anything about how the police were involved, so that should be added. The reader will be looking for the police connection. Also, the copyvio detector is at violation possible 49.5% with one of the sources, so some of the stuff highlighted in red there will need to be revised first. Just one more minor thing, I don't think Singapore needs to be bolded in the hook. I think it looks better as "that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?" Nice work on the article! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The nominator hasn't edited in a few days and didn't respond to the above. Asking if fellow Singaporean DYK regulars Kingoflettuce or ZKang123 can help out. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Imbluey2: Please respond to the above. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:40, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, I didn't receive the ping for some odd reason. Anyways, should I just add a footnote in the article explaining that the Entertainment licensing unit is now part of the police? I'll change the stuff that (potentially) violates copyright.
    That will work but I think it would be better if the police part was added to the actual body in prose instead of just footnoted. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Added it. As for the potential copyright violations, I don't know if I can decrease it much since the texts that are in "violation" are either common phrases or quotes from different sources. But I'll try Imbluey2. Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 12:38, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 1

    Tel al-Sultan attack

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    • Reviewed:
    Improved to Good Article status by Personisinsterest (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Personisinsterest (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Smallangryplanet (talk) 09:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • As a DYK, I would prefer either ALT1 or ALT3 as a better alternative to the suggested DYK, simply because, in warfare, all sides make use of weapons supplied to them by other countries, and sometimes innocent lives are taken away inadvertently by these weapons. Furthermore, the article goes on to suggest that there was in proximity to the camp a weapons' storage facility.Davidbena (talk) 08:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Full review needed. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • Dune (Kenshi Yonezu song)

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    Created by Tokisaki Kurumi (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 09:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Hook is interesting and true,

    I made a small copy edit but beyond that the content is fine, earwig has less then 10% overlap. QPQ not need congrats on your first DYK! Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 21:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @OlifanofmrTennant: Thanks! But it seems the DYK template not working well? ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 18:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Tokisaki Kurumi, OlifanofmrTennant, and Crisco 1492: Pulled per WT:DYK on WP:DYKFICTION grounds; as neither ALT0 or ALT2 meet WP:DYKINT (something's going to be slowest and there's no way that it's unusual for a music video to score that many views), new hook needed.--Launchballer 15:19, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: Well, I really didn't realize that 1 million wasn't that noteworthy, so how about something similar to "its music video was the fastest original Vocaloid music video to reach a million views on Niconico at the time"? Or something related to the fact that the author has a personal feeling about Niconico, such as "feeling the desert-like atmosphere of Niconico and it's so much different from before, so he composed this song"? (Note these hooks are not polished yet) ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 19:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I added ALT3 and ALT4 (With the ALT2 mod, I think the BPM is actually an interesting point, since other music tends to have 180BPM to 200BPM then) according to the community reponses. @DYK admins: I'm not familiar with the DYK process, can I trouble one of you to help review it (both content and process)? ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 18:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Launchballer: for comment. TSventon (talk) 11:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The speed hooks rely on knowing what BPM is. The problem with running a hook about the song's subject matter is that he could conceivably have written it about anything, which I would argue goes against the spirit of WP:DYKFICTION.--Launchballer 13:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What about the other hook? ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 15:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What other hook? I've assessed ALTs 2, 3, and 4.--Launchballer 15:49, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oops, I thought those texts following were commenting on BPM. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 17:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: I thought about it for a while, and then I did come up with another rather interesting (at least to me) hook again. Please check! ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 10:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Per WP:DYKINT, hooks need to be "likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest in the topic". What ALT5 ultimately boils down to is 'guy sings own song', which is uneventful.--Launchballer 15:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: Hi. Sorry for the late reply. I've checked the DYKs during November, and I personally can't agree with this reductionism. For example, "Talk Talk (Charli XCX song)" on November 6, if you look at it that way, it's just "somebody wrote this song to reflect an experience". Another example, "Nobody Knows (Shawn Mendes song)" on October 30th is just "recorded after a difficult time". Besides, if you really think I'm wrong about this, a suggestion about the direction would really be appreciated. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 14:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Following people into a toilet is inherently intriguing, although I do note that George Daniel's uplift was more than the song's. (Not complaining, as I wrote that article.) "Tough night" did poorly.--Launchballer 14:12, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This needs a new hook.--Launchballer 02:28, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 2

    Eastern Venus

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    Eastern Venus at Kobe
    Eastern Venus at Kobe
    • ... that on the ship Eastern Venus (pictured), the "Modern" suite is not in modern style?
    "The largest cabins onboard Pacific Venus are 4 Royal Suites (65 m2) located behind the bridge, named "Archaic" (1001), "Modern" (1002), "Elegant" (1003), "Noble" (1004). They are decorated in two styles, with "Modern" and "Archaic" in traditional Japanese style, "Noble" and "Elegant" being more contemporary."
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Memer15151 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    UserMemer (chat) Tribs 21:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    I have removed the aforementioned self-published sources and found better citations; all unsupported claims were removed. In addition, I removed "Castles of the Seas" as it is obviously self-published too. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kingoflettuce: Please address the above.--Launchballer 02:47, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies for the late response! It looks better, although a lot of the material still hinges on primary sources like VesselFinder. Apart from Cruise Industry News, do we have more reliable "third-party" coverage? At the same time, I'm not sure how picky one ought to be with cruise-related articles, so I think I could pass this if there really isn't anything else. Best, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:09, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 4

    Peanut (squirrel)

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    )
    Created by Thriley (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 256 past nominations.

    Launchballer 22:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    ALT1... that the death of a squirrel named Peanut was a Republican rallying cry in the last days before the 2024 United States presidential election? Source: Washington Post Thriley (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Grammar! "a" squirrel Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    ALT2... that Peanut the squirrel was taken from his home by New York State and euthanized soon after? Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Oh, that squirrel... I followed this when it was at ITN and in the pre-election hullaballoo. Article is new enough and long enough. Hook facts are all cited and interesting, though my preference is for ALT0. Earwig flags a fair bit, but they seem to be properly attributed quotes. Good to go.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • I'd appreciate it if the alt1 hook runs. Far more consequential than making money for the owner. It was the hook I was going to use as the article creator before this drive by nomination was made. Thriley (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe it's me being tired of American politics, but going with a politics-related angle feels cheap at this point. It's like all those previous hooks about COVID: just because a hook is about COVID or US politics does not automatically make it interesting, especially when there's oversaturation both on and off-Wikipedia. Endorsing ALT0 instead as more likely to get readership interest, especially to those not interested in politics. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Due to concerns raised at WT:DYK, the nomination has been pulled for now. Consensus is leaning against ALT1 (the promoted hook); however, a concern has been raised that ALT0 (the hook consensus was leaning in favor of) may not be accurate or supported, and thus may need revision. The discussion did not discuss ALT2. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My bad, I changed the Express Tribune and New York Post with the Telegraph and misread it. The sentence now ends with just the Express Tribune. Should be supported now.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think ignoring a citation to an in-depth article from a reliable source and instead using a four paragraph summary of a NYPost article from a random Pakistani newspaper which doesn't actually reflect the source just for the sake of a DYK hook is what editors should be doing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I skimmed WP:RSN for "Express Tribune" and saw nothing of concern nor any indication in the article it came from the New York Post, but I've put the Telegraph back. Hmm, "helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account", cited to Vanity Fair...--Launchballer 16:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies, I've been out of it the last few days. ALT3: ... that a squirrel helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account?--Launchballer 15:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Clifton House School, Harold Styan

    ( Comment or view )
    ( Article history links:
    )
    Created by Storye book (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 110 past nominations.

    Storye book (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • I'm not yet sure if I will give this a full review, so I'll just leave this as a comment for now. Although the angle provided meets DYKINT, I have reservations if it meets the guidelines. For one, both hooks may need a trimming (it might be better to focus on the "two attackers were knocked out" angle alone without mentioning the gymnast or music hall clauses). More importantly, I'm not sure if the hooks as currently written meet WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE, specifically the part about avoiding writing hooks where the bolded article is only tangentially related to the main hook fact (the hooks seem to be more about Styan than the school itself). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • ALT0 is 155 characters. According to the link you provided about trimming, it is ideal length.
    • ALT1 is 180 characters. Being 180 characters is not a trimming issue by itself.
    • Styan was a big part of that school, as can be seen in the article. There is plenty of material about him in the article, because he was a big presence there. If our readers click on the bold link, they will read more about Styan there than anywhere else online. Therefore he is relevant to the hook.
    • Meanwhile I'll go and find an extra hook or two, anyway. Storye book (talk) 10:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • ALT2: ... Clifton House School formed a scout pack which received an award from Lord Baden Powell for "best pack the United Kingdom"? Source: Neesam, Malcolm (26 February 1999). "Lord Baden Powell on the Stray". Harrogate Advertiser and Weekly List of the Visitors. p. 7 col.4. Retrieved 30 October 2024 – via British Newspaper Archive. "Lord Baden Powell was in Harrogate for the special purpose of presenting Peter's Pole to the Clifton House School Pack, which had won the award of best pack in the United Kingdom, an exceptional commendation".
    • ALT0a: ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above
    • ALT0b: ... that Clifton House School's sports teacher Harold Styan played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above Storye book (talk) 11:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds good to me! :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Pro-Fatimid conspiracy against Saladin

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    • Source: summary of the entire article
    Improved to Good Article status by Cplakidas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 145 past nominations.

    Constantine ✍ 19:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks Aafi for clarifying. How about ALT1 ... that the members of an abortive conspiracy to restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have asked the Order of Assassins for assistance in eliminating Saladin? Constantine ✍ 10:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 5

    Oasis (Minecraft clone)

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    Created by Johnson524 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Loytra (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment The disambiguation is incorrect - if this is considered a video game, then per WP:NCVGDAB it should be (2024 video game) instead (since there is already a 2005 video game of the same name). That said, I am not sure I would consider it a video game, given that it does not work according to anything but dream logic, and is more of a vague approximation of a game. Therefore, (simulation) or (AI simulation) could be a better disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          • Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
            • I can confidently say it's not an IAR situation. After looking at the sources more, I am convinced that (AI model) is the best DAB for this as it is first and foremost a model that can be "played" using a game interface. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. I don't think arguing over the title should block this from DYK. Only truly egregiously wrong titles would cause that kind of problem, and the current title is clearly not that bad - as noted, the COMMONNAME is something like "AI Minecraft". (And I don't think the case is as open-and-shut as Zxc thinks it is, either.) Zxc, you should file a WP:RM and see what the community thinks IMO. SnowFire (talk) 19:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I agree. Its now time to keep discussion in this template related to DYK reviews and any discussion about the name of this article, should take place via an RM and any discussion about improving this article should take place at the relevant talk page. Article titles are outside the scope of a DYK review. side note: sounds like I'm a forum moderator at this point JuniperChill (talk) 16:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    A reviewer is needed for this nomination. Z1720 (talk) 15:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    • Adequate sourcing: No - Forbes Sites is not a reliable source per past consensus; Decrypt Media seems a bit borderline, but regardless of reliability the link needs to not be directly to the CEO's article. Backdash seems to be a how-to website, so also in need of replacement. 80 Level seems to be a clickbait outlet for a jobs hiring platform.
    • Neutral: Yes
    • Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Unknown
    • Other problems: No - See above on sourcing.

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: No - Forbes Sites cannot be used for the citation. ALT2 (sourced to BoingBoing) is acceptable.
    • Interesting: Yes
    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Sourcing needs serious work. Once resolved, ALT2 should be good to go. SounderBruce 02:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    You pinged me on my talk page @SounderBruce: but this is not my nomination, I just created the article. I can take over the nomination if you'd like @Loytra: but that'd be up to you. Johnson524 03:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies, I didn't notice the separate byline here. SounderBruce 03:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SounderBruce: Since the concerns were sourcing based and not hook based, I figured it'd be fine do finish them. Good catch on Forbes, it has been removed from the article. As an added bonus, while finding alternative sourcing for Forbes in the article, I stumbled across a few instances of copyediting-gone-wrong, where the correct sources citing some sentences were accidently removed and replaced with the wrong citation. Those instances have been corrected as well! The Decrypt Media link has been fixed, and some of the wording on the about page for 80 Level did seem pretty concerning, hinting at little editorial oversight, and has likewise been removed. I am a little hesitant to remove the Backdash source though, as it appears to be a website dedicated publishing gaming articles, does not claim to be a blog, and has credited authors. I really don't see what the issue is. Do you think this DYK can pass now? Cheers! Johnson524 04:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, I was asking if there's been clarity regarding what the article's title should be. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: Oh sorry for the late reply, I completely forgot to respond earlier 😅 Since nobody has raised concerns over the article's title recently, I believe the current title is suitable, also because while they are officially unrelated, the common name for Oasis by most sources covering it refer to it as 'AI Minecraft', 'Minecraft clone', or something along those lines. Because of this, I believe 'Minecraft' should stay in the title in some capacity, but please let me what you think! Also, @SounderBruce: the Maginative source has been removed, an editor other than myself added that recently. Can this nomination be passed now? Cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Backdash is still a potentially unreliable source and I do think it needs to be replaced. SounderBruce 02:46, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I said earlier in the discussion that a little hesitant to remove the Backdash source though, as it appears to be a website dedicated publishing gaming articles, does not claim to be a blog, and has credited authors. I really don't see what the issue is. Can it be kept? Cheers! Johnson524 21:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SounderBruce: Pinging. Cheers! Johnson524 09:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As long as sourcing issues remain, I cannot approve this review. Backdash is not a reliable enough source. SounderBruce 07:02, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Gohobi

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    Created by Narutolovehinata5 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 109 past nominations.

    Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • @Narutolovehinata5:, Thanks for the article. This is a suggestion: could you expand the article slightly to give some idea of what it means to have a "tofu mentality"? For those of us who won't be able to read the original sources if we click through, the current Wikipedia article gives no explanation of the hook. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For what it's worth, the sources regarding the band only use "tofu mentality" without further elaboration (other than it was a term they gave to themselves), so I can't really add more to the article without doing original research. Technically, in Japanese, the term "tofu mentality" means something similar to what English speakers would call a "snowflake", although the article uses a literal translation of "豆腐メンタル" rather than the translated version (which is probably still accurate since the literal meaning is correct in Japanese). The full explanation about what the term means would probably not work for the band's article since it would delve into original research or even WP:COAT, but that's the explanation for context. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    jp:豆腐メンタル maps to Snowflake (slang), so maybe a piped link to Snowflake (slang) in the hook would suffice?
    have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT0A... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? (same source) -Bogger (talk) 14:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "tofu mentality" ..? -Bogger (talk) 09:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I mentioned in the original nomination comment that I'd leave it to the reviewer if "tofu mentality" should have quotes or not since I wasn't sure if they were necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 7

    Organization of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

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    )
    Moved to mainspace by John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 43 past nominations.

    John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 00:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @John P. Sadowski (NIOSH): Pinging for a response. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Bunt sind schon die Wälder

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    J. F. Reichardt
    J. F. Reichardt
    Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2124 past nominations.

    Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Thank you for this interesting article. I would like to hear this one. A few comments:

    • Earwig finds only quotations and proper names. No problem there.
    • The hook citation (above) for ALT0 was not in the article, so I added it there. I also gave the article a very minor copyedit. That does not affect this DYK review.
    • One issue: The citation given above for ALT0 does not confirm popularity. Popularity is mentioned in the name of the website, but not in the main text of the website. Also, the website name says (if I understand correctly) "popular and traditional lieder", so according to that, this piece could be in traditional style (which does not imply popularity). So I think we need to EITHER find another citation OR another hook. Storye book (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you - both - for thinking. I am open to rewording. Grammar: in German, "und" says that something is both, both traditional and popular", - if it was only one, German would use "oder". As you will have seen, there were multiple melodies, before and after, but this is the one in most publications, recorded, sung. Take Hannes Wader, a singer-songwriter himself: singing that old melody. (yt at the bottom) - Schubert wrote a different setting (= different melody + different piano), which didn't become popular, - note that only one of the uses mentioned has his version, - it remained for art singers and higher school education. What word would you choose instead of "popular" for: is the one that people know and sing? Schubert is really only a side note here, his setting didn't get popular in any sense, it's not Erlkönig. I didn't know he wrote a melody, but now he wrote 700 (as DYK once informed us). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would it help to add that it was recorded among the "80 most popular Volkslieder" [13]. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the new sentence and citation in the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 08:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Storye bookYou mean a sentence about that collection? (In another nom, someone mentioned "promotional". Anyway, ref added, which supports "remained popular. Will search for more. As a little gift: a children's tv version ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I added two more indications of popularity, a 2011 poll and a 2017 collection. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT0a: ... that the Volkslied "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) has remained popular with the 1799 melody by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured)?
    to avoid the impression that only the melody remained popular. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, Gerda. The citation is now in the article, and I approve ALT0a, with image. Storye book (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Pulling this per this discussion. Jlwoodwa raised concerns that the hook was hard to understand. In addition, the hook at best probably borderline meets WP:DYKINT. Some possible alternative suggestions:
    Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    for ALT 1 or 1a, subject to Gerda Arendt's approval. Storye book (talk) 09:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt: As far as I can see, you have not written anything misleading or untrue. Please explain? Thanks.
    Regarding the word, "popular", in the discussion someone appeared confused by the word, presumably because they lived in a world so narrow that they did not know that "popular music" is a subsidiary meaning of "popular", which has for hundreds of years just meant that a lot of people liked something. Storye book (talk) 10:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT2 ... that the folk-style melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" was composed long ago by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) and it is still liked by many?
    ALT1b .... that radio listeners voted "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" second in their suggested list of the most beautiful German folk songs? (See Gerda's comment above, regarding this one). Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Third party required to approve ALT2 and/or ALT1b only. Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think ALT1b would get us into trouble with ERRORS because it's more No. 22, and tough to explain with the 20 from the station. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I really don't think ALT2 as currently written is going to work out. It's rather vague and basically says "did you know that this song written long ago is still popular?", which actually isn't all that uncommon. It would be like a hook saying "that the folk song "Yankee Doodle" from the 1700s remains popular?" I still think something about the poll would be the best option here, although if that really can't work out then either a completely different angle be suggested here, or the nomination be rejected for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    And I really don't think that slamming down the hopes of a nomination which bores you (and bores you alone, so far) is a constructive way to contribute. If this subject matter bores you, go and contribute to a nomination about your own favourite music, sport or whatever, and leave us to work productively on this one. Thank you.
    Controversy about which tune is the "right" one for a favourite set of verses can be a powerful force, and can cause concerts to be spoiled or cancelled. For example, in the UK (and possibly Europe, I don't know), a favoured tune for Psalm 23 is Crimond. There are many competing tunes for it, including Brother James' Air, which allows more fancy choral settings. However, when some people (including me) hear that tune used instead of Crimond, they become very angry. There is nothing wrong with Brother James' Air, but Crimond is loved for sentimental reasons. I can assure you that the subject matter of ALT 2 is far from boring. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT3 ... that the melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder", composed by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured), is still preferred by many, even though the famous Franz Schubert wrote a tune for it? (176 characters)
    Third party approval still required for ALT2 and/or ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We could go with some variation of ALT3 (we probably need to reject ALT2 however due to WP:DYKINT reasons). However, the issue with ALT3 is that it is not directly stated in the article or the source (there is nothing in the article that directly says that people prefer Recihardt's version, just that it exists and is popular while one by Schubert exists). If that could be addressed, ALT3 would be a suitable option.
    As for the "bores me" aspect, for what it's worth, Gerda's nominations and hooks have long had a reputation among several DYK regulars (not just me) for failing to meet the interestingness criterion, so it's not just me who has raised concerns. Other editors such as 4meter4 and CurryTime7-24 (incidentally both also classical music experts) have also raised concerns about her nominations and hooks in the past. While one could argue that DYKINT is by its nature a subjective criterion, the fact that Gerda's reputation exists, along with how the current wording of DYKINT was a direct response to one of her nominations, can't be discounted. For what it's worth, I have no issue with classical music as a topic itself and there have been plenty of acceptable hooks about the field from Gerda and other editors like 4meter4 and CurryTime among others. The issue has usually been the hooks themselves, not the field. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (ec) Packing for return trip. Will be about a day. Hate editing mobile. - Sorry, Schubert takes us too far away. The 2 melodies don't compare. Schubert's is an art song, with no chance to become popular. The composer of such a successful thing deserves mentioning by name, imho. - After edit conflict: indeed, Not classical, but POPULAR. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt, Storye book, and Narutolovehinata5: What is the status of this nomination?--Launchballer 02:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It could use a reviewer who sees that it is noteworthy that this particular old song is still popular (while most others from the time arens't) and that it is due to a specific person's melody. Or first a person to word a better hook for that fact? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ps: the concerns were archived: Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 203#Bunt sind schon die Wälder (nom). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would rather recuse from commenting on this nomination further; however, I've struck ALT2 due to the vagueness I mentioned above. My final comment is that my concern about ALT3 being unsupported remains unresolved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: As I understand it, the review of the article itself has been completed as a green tick, and has not been challenged. However the hooks are still under discussion. We need a third party reviewer to review the remaining hooks (as I write, ALT3 is the only remaining hook, although the struck hooks could be unstruck if considered interesting). Also, those who contributed to the article need to check that ALT3 is properly supported by citations in the article, then tell us whether we should keep, rewrite or strike ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:10, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't see where ALT3 is in the article. Also, where is your reference for the sentence beginning "The first"?--Launchballer 15:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have reworded the sentence beginning "The first", and provided a citation.
    ALT4 ... that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created is the one commonly used today? Storye book (talk) 09:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't see where ALT4 is in the article and you could probably say it about every song ever written.--Launchballer 21:58, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: The sentence in the article which represents the hook is " The melody that became popular was composed in 1799 by Johann Friedrich Reichardt".[1] Re your comment "you could probably say it about every song ever written.", the original point of the hook was that one would have expected the Schubert setting to have been the popular one because Schubert is famous (and a jolly good composer), but in fact the Reichardt setting has been more commonly used. If you want that fact put back in the hook, that would be very helpful. Storye book (talk) 10:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe this wording works better? It's 180 characters so it's a bit on the long side, but I'm not sure if it's possible to shorten it further while keeping the context and accuracy intact. My main concern is that it's only implicitly, rather than explicitly, stated in the article that Reichardt's version is more popular than Schubert's. If this is the angle that we have to go with (I really wish we could go with the poll one instead as that appears to be the one that's most likely to appeal to general readership), that will need to be taken into account, as I fear that WP:SYNTH might apply if no source exists that actually states that Reinchardt's version is more popular despite Schubert's version existing. ALT4 as currently written is probably unsuitable given that it is reliant on knowledge of Reichardt, which not all of our readers have (and I'm skeptical that adding "1799" will address the concern given the vagueness of the term "popular" in this context, or if it lines up with reality, as discussed above). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: Forgot to ping. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:39, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Approving ALT5, and disagreeing with the reservations which follow ALT5 above. Storye book (talk) 10:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, it might be for the best for a third-party to approve or reject ALT5, as my reservations regarding WP:SYNTH remain and I have a feeling that objections could be raised over at WT:DYK without at least one other editor having a say if it's supported or not. The tick can be restored if the third-party says that WP:SYNTH is not violated. To make things clear I've struck all other hook options, so regardless only ALT5 for now will be under consideration. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, I missed some movement here. Sorry, I have to say something I said a few times before: drop Schubert. His version was not meant to be popular, never was popular, so "most popular" makes no sense when comparing to Schubert's art song version. To make things clear, if ALT5 makes it, I'll go to ERRORS. Perhaps look at the original hook again. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    After giving this thought, I think the best compromise we can do is the following:
    ALT5a ... that while Schubert wrote a melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" in 1816, Johann Friedrich Reichardt's (pictured) 1799 version is the one that remains popular?
    It's basically a reword of ALT3 and it doesn't make any assumptions of "X is most popular despite Y", instead simply acknowledging that X exists but Y also exists and is the one that's popular, not necessarily the most popular. Technically I did introduce new hook facts to the hook by adding the years of publication, but they're just minor additions that don't fundamentally change the main hook facts so I'm IAR approving my own wording in this case. ALT5a to me at least probably resolves any possible SYNTH objections, and in any case I may have just been too cautious anyway. The nom has languished unapproved for long enough, so it should be time to run this with ALT5a. As for the above objection, "not meant to be popular" is not an issue for DYK purposes. I will leave it to the promoter if Schubert's name should be mentioned in full or not. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    References

    1. ^ "G. Bunt sind schon die Wälder". liederlexikon.de. Populare und Traditionelle Lieder. Retrieved 9 November 2024.

    Articles created/expanded on November 8

    Canaanite ivory comb

    (
    )
    • ... that the Canaanite ivory comb that contains the earliest sentence in a phonetic alphabet was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: An image would be excellent for this entry. The images are there in the internet but I have been unable to find a suitable one that can be uploaded to commons with proper licensing. Please help me find/upload a picture for this artifact.
    Created by Raydann (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    ❯❯❯ Raydann(Talk) 20:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: So, between 2004 and 2010 or so, I did a lot of reading about artifacts like this. It turns out that it is extremely common for items like this to be set aside for years, decades, perhaps even a century or more, before someone comes along and decides to give them a second look. I only bring this up because while I like your hook, I could see others objecting to it as mundane. Viriditas (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:
    ALT1 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb contains the earliest-known sentence in a phonetic alphabet?
    ALT2 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
    Basically, splitting the original hook into two separate hooks. ALT2 lacks context, but arguably it might encourage a reader to click and learn why it was an important discovery. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

     Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: The article was created on November 8, and nominated the next day for DYK. The length is adequate and the article is neutral in tone. Sourcing needs a bit of work. Please see where citation needed tags were added. I found no plagiarism concerns despite that Earwig highlights directly attributed quotes and titles of works. I have struck ALT0 and ALT2 since it is common for the importance of many artifacts to be known much later on. ALT1 is an interesting hook to a broad audience, mentioned in the article, and verified by the source. I remain open to considered other hooks proposed. There is no image used in this nomination, and the image in the article is freely licensed on the Commons. The QPQ is not required for this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 03:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Jim Rivaldo

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    )
    • Source: [14] Politics was as much a passion as a job for Jim Rivaldo, a veteran San Francisco political consultant who worked campaigns for candidates ranging from Harvey Milk and Ella Hill Hutch to Supervisor Bevin Dufty and District Attorney Kamala Harris.
    Moved to mainspace by Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 20 past nominations.

    — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • The article is a new creation, and is long enough and adequately source. I did not find any close paraphrasing. However, the provided QPQ is an incomplete review as it was a quickfail that only checked some of the DYK criteria. A full QPQ has to be provided for the nomination to proceed: due to the new rules regarding immediate QPQs, it would be ideal for a full review to be done promptly to replace the provided QPQ.
    Among the two hooks, the second hook seems more interesting, especially for non-politics buffs. It is cited inline and verified. However, I do have some reservations regarding the hook, particularly if it might be considered offensive to LGBT readers and editors if the hook as currently written runs. I'm unsure if the hook as currently written is fine, or if will need to be reworded, but for now, my preference would be to go with some variation of it. In addition, other hook suggestions can also be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5:I have done a new QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Artificial intelligence rhetoric
    I had the same concerns as you regarding my hook suggestions, so I will defer to the opinion of the promoter.— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I also forgot to mention this in the review, but for DYK purposes, the footnote supporting the quote (the hairdresser one) needs to be repeated immediately after the quote, rather than just after the paragraph. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 19:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. To be on the safe side, I would suggest trying alternative wordings for ALT1 that could help make the context of the hook clearer and thus help avoid possible concerns about being offensive (maybe Theleekycauldron can help?), or maybe try additional angles different from the hairdresser one. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Narutolovehinata5: Alright, how about this version based on the same quote:
    • ALT1b: ... that Jim Rivaldo, a campaign consultant for Harvey Milk, said that moving to San Francisco made him realize "that there were gay lawyers, gay businessmen—a lot of people like me"?
    — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 06:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Feels long. Maybe just drop the mention of Milk? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 9

    The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness (Talmud)

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    )
    • Source: current footnote 12: Berger, Zackary; Cahan, Rabbi Joshua (2016). "Patient Autonomy in Talmudic Context: The Patient's "I Must Eat" on Yom Kippur in the Light of Contemporary Bioethics". Journal of Religion and Health. 55 (5): 1778–1785: "Here, we analyze a discussion in the Mishna, a foundational text of rabbinic Judaism, regarding patient autonomy in the setting of religiously mandated fasting, and commentaries in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds, finding both a more expansive notion of such autonomy and a potential metaphysical grounding for it in the importance of patient self-knowledge."
    • ALT1: ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", has been used to justify a rabbinic law project by and for transgender Jews? Source: current fn #5: Soloman, Laynie; Pearce, Russell G. (2022). "'Nothing about Us without Us': Toward a Liberatory Heterodox Halakha". Touro L. Rev. 37: 1769–1836 – via HeinOnline: ""The heart alone knows its bitterness" is not simply a mantra about the essential power of individuals to dictate their medical needs when confronted with a disputing party. This statement, as we have seen, becomes an interpretive principle that we can utilize to articulate a truth at the center of a vision of a liberatory Heterodox halakha that attempts to center the needs, realities, experiences, and expertise of the community from which it emerges. (1830)... The approaches to Heterodox halakhathat we have described thus far are the ideologies that ground the Trans Halakha Project, a recent initiative that "aims to curate existing resources that have been developed for trans Jews and by trans Jews..." (1832)
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elin Falk
    • Comment: I'm very sorry, I lost track of the timing (because I put wrong creation date on my user page)! It's a few days over. But the hooks are short and clearly sourced, so hopefully easy to review.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: That's fine, User:ProfGray, but please make a note to avoid this again. This is at least the second time you've missed the cutoff date and if you make it a habit, some editors are likely to decline in the future. I will compose a review. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The lead hardly summarizes the body.
    • No quotes for "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" as the title?
    • You alternate between the uppercase title "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" and the lowercase phrasing of "the heart knows its own bitterness" of the sugya and the proverb it refers to. That's three different references, and it must be really confusing for our readers. You probably need a dab header pointing to the Proverb as well. Figure out a way to make it clear that you are differentiating between the 1) principle 2) the sugya, and the 3) proverb.
    • It is because the verse states: "The heart knows the bitterness of its soul" (Proverbs 14:10) Please link to Proverbs 14
    • In a 2022 law review article, Laynie Soloman and Russell G. Pearce deploy The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness as one of two No quotes for "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" here?
    • While applying The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness for a Jewish ethics by a those outside the mainstream No quotes here?
    • Citation 2: ""The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness". You've got two quotes in front of the title. This can be solved by using a single quote in the title field.
    • gemara. You're using a different convention for Gemara than Wikipedia. Here, it is uppercase with no italics. You're doing the same for other words like Yoma, etc. Note: I see you are doing this for a specific reason, but that it isn't evident to most people, so perhaps add a footnote explaining the usage differences.
    • Hence it is discussed in the 313rd mitzvah Per WP:EL, don't use an external link in the body of the article. Add the footnote.
    • Jewish Medical Ethics. Add the pub date so we know the year like this: Jewish Medical Ethics (1959). I believe it is 1959, but you should verify.
    • I added the link to the source in the hook. Please also add it to the article.
    • Along these lines, Libson mentions the case of a rabbi (a Tosafist, Isaac ben Asher) who fasted to death in the medieval period, earning some recognition for piety as well as push back on the rabbinic acceptance of such conduct There's a great opportunity to add some interdenominational cross-referencing if the sources support it. Fasting to death was a thing in Asian Buddhism and was practiced to achieve self-mummification. Apparently, these bodies of monks who fasted to death are still in public view (China, Japan, Korea).
    • Yes if a person says they need food, their view outweighs even 100 doctors who say they should fast. That's not encyclopedic style. Please rewrite that passage.
    More in a bit. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the detailed comments. And I'm sorry about the timing, not my strong suit, I'll try not to err again. I've made most of your suggested changes. (I know about Sallekhana but might seem like OR for me to refer to it, and the rabbinic case is more an exception than a comparable practice.) I see the inconsistency: should The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness generally be in title case with or without quotation marks? I revised the lead a bit but I think it covers much of the ground of the article, what do you sense should be added? ProfGray (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Exemption per WP:DYKNEW. Article is long enough; no problems found by Earwig except quotes. Hooks seem fine and sourced. My primary issue is with the article itself. Even though there are no maintenance tags, I think it indirectly fails WP:DYKCOMPLETE due to is tendency towards obscurantism from the style of writing, which I believe impacts the overall presentation. I realize this is not done on purpose. I recommend a complete rewrite. The current version lacks clarity and focus and is technical and dense. This problem could easily be remedied by removing all the quoted passages and reducing the topic to its bare simplicity for the general reader. Then, slowly add back in more advanced concepts and quotes as needed. I realize my review will be controversial, so after writing this, I will immediately request a second opinion. Viriditas (talk) 01:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Well, I've never been asked to do a complete rewrite before. It is true that the articles on the Talmud are going to get into some special terms, which have hyperlinks, and content (e.g., literary sources and legal issues). Perhaps you could mark which quotations should be removed and presumably paraphrased instead? Which paragraphs are too dense and require more clarity or clarification? Not sure that 'obscurantism' is a helpful feedback term, but I do appreciate your willingness to help me improve this. ProfGray (talk) 18:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In terms of DYKCOMPLETE, I wonder if folks would glance at my other currently nominated articles on Talmudic topics, to check for similar concerns. Moses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b), Sugya, Hefker. ProfGray (talk) 18:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I did that, and your other article on the list of older hooks needing to be reviewed didn’t appear so bad. For me, the issue here is, what if you pretend for a moment that you aren’t who you are, you’re someone who doesn’t know this subject and has no familiarity with it. Now read what you wrote with that pretend state of mind. It’s difficult to make sense of it. Like I said, work towards simplicity for the general reader and you should be fine. The easiest and simplest way to do this is to add all of the text, except for the quotes, to a sandbox page, and rewrite it. Once you've achieved a reasonable outline and structure that anyone can follow and understand, begin adding in your selected quotes if necessary. That should solve the entire problem. I will bow out of this and ask others to take over. Perhaps you will find someone who is sympathetic and will pass it. But I read it three times with the idea that I was new and a beginner and as someone who has never come across the subject before, and I couldn’t get very far. Try it yourself. Remember, we aren’t just writing for ourselves but a general audience. You’re not alone in this struggle, it’s something I keep running into in my own writing and I’m always having to make changes because I sometimes forget that I’m not the intended recipient. Viriditas (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 10

    Hold Your Hand (film)

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    )
    • ... that the film Hold Your Hand was based on the author's experiences after getting arrested in 2013?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Miminity (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 10:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Launchballer: Unfortunately, the article itself is rather barebones and short (about half of the article consists of the plot summary), and there isn't any other material at the moment that could work as a hook. We could ask Miminity to expand the article further and see what can be done, or the nomination could be marked for closure for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: The nominator has a message on his talk page that he will be busy until the 18th. Should we wait until then, or should we seek outside help in the meantime? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fine by me.--Launchballer 12:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Miminity: Please respond to the above concerns, as the nomination will be marked for closure if a new hook is not proposed within a reasonable timeframe. Due to WP:DYKBLP concerns, the original hook has been struck. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: @Launchballer: Sorry for the late responds. I'll choose another hook later... I wish to put this nomination to hold. If possible. I'll expand it more in the meantime. Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 02:49, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:DYKTIMEOUT won't apply until next month so there's still plenty of time for any issues to be addressed, so there's really no need to put the nomination on hold. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:43, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Berta Persson

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    )
    Berta Persson, aka "Buss-Berta" with her first bus, a Chevrolet for 14 passengers.
    Berta Persson, aka "Buss-Berta" with her first bus, a Chevrolet for 14 passengers.
    • ... that in 1927 Berta Persson became the first woman bus driver in Sweden and was nicknamed "Buss-Berta"?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by MumphingSquirrel (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    MumphingSquirrel (talk) 19:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • This article is new, long enough and written in a neutral tone. The sources cited look reliable, and all contain information that validates the story of Berta Persson. There are no copyvio issues, and no close paraphrasing. QPQ is not required. The image appears to satisfy DYK requirements (old, and public domain). The hook is clear, to the point and interesting, and verified in the sources cited; it is the most obvious hook for the page. Good to go. Thank you for a fascinating article! Chaiten1 (talk) 21:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Many thanks for your kind words Chaiten1, still learning how to do DYKs, so appreciate the encouragement MumphingSquirrel (talk) 21:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    MumphingSquirrel, this appears to be close to a WP:ONESOURCE, and as such some passages are uncomfortably close to WP:CLOP territory. It would be better if more sources are found (there are surely some more available in Swedish). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Added some extra cites, another editor has kindly done some copy edits. Shout if it needs more attention, but my time may be short in the next few weeks to look at anything - this is the season of domestic duties. MumphingSquirrel (talk) 17:45, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 13

    Austin Staats

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    )
    • ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats' contract was suspended after he bit another player's finger?
    Created by SammySpartan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    SammySpartan (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • I don't think either hook would meet WP:DYKBLP given their negative tone and their arguably undue focus. A different angle is needed here. Maybe:
    ALT2 ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats works part-time as a firefighter?
    I understand that it's actually common for professional lacrosse players to have other jobs, but that knowledge may not be common to most readers and thus may still be considered intriguing or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess as a lacrosse fan, what's notable to me about him has been his anger issues on and off the field, but I totally get the need to be neutral. ALT2 works for me. SammySpartan (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Article is new enough and long enough.
    • No copyright issues found
    • daillycaller.com does not appear to be a WP:RS, despite their claim that "Real News Starts Here".
    • Both ALT0 and ALT1 fail WP:DYKBLP ("Hooks that unduly focus on negative aspects of living persons should be avoided") and ALT2 is not interesting. So we need to find some better hooks.
    • RoySmith (talk) 20:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't even notice that the article cites the Daily Caller. It's deprecated, so that reference will have to go (and also the part in question if a better source can't be found). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SammySpartan: Pinging regarding the issues raised above. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:42, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've removed the deprecated source, and have suggested some alts below.
    ALT3 ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats went undefeated in his college career?
    ALT3a ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats and his brother Randy Staats both went undefeated while playing for the Onondaga Community College Lazers?
    ALT4 ... that Austin Staats was the San Diego Seals' first ever draft pick?

    Randy Staats does not appear to qualify for DYK (too old), and I can't find where the first ever draft pick is stated in the article, so let's just go with ALT3. RoySmith (talk) 20:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 15

    Retelling

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    )
    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 533 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Overall, the article meets all the criteria for warranting a DYK blurb, and QPQ has been satisfied, but I'm concerned that your proposed hook, in my opinion, doesn't seem that interesting or attention-grabbing. Do you think there's something else interesting you could bring up about retelling aside from how common it is? JJonahJackalope (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Piotrus, that definitely sounds more interesting, though if I could make an edit to the phrasing, maybe something like:
    • ... that the feminist retelling of stories can focus on previously nonexistent or marginalized female characters?
    Let me know if this sounds good to you. JJonahJackalope (talk) 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 16

    Marzēaḥ

    (
    )
    • ... that an inscription from 243 AD for a leader of the marzēaḥ ends with blesses for his sons, the scribe, the person in charge of the cooking, the cupbearer and other assistants?
    • ALT1: ... that the relationship between the marzēaḥ and veneration of the dead is still debated among scholars, due to sporadic literary evidence?

    — Preceding unsigned comment added by TNM101 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • Reviewed:
    Created by פעמי-עליון (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    TNM101 (chat) 07:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General eligibility:

    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    Image eligibility:

    QPQ: Unknown
    Review is incomplete - please fill in the "status" field

    Articles created/expanded on November 17

    Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani

    (
    )
    Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani
    Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani
    Created by Faldi00 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Faldi00 (talk) 19:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Same refs etc. Bit spicier. Johnbod (talk) 21:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Take it from a native speaker; they're not. But whatever. Johnbod (talk) 13:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    De Worsten van Babel

    (
    )
    Moved to mainspace by Bogger (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 28 past nominations.

    Bogger (talk) 00:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: AGF re: sources and plagiarism, since I'm depending upon Google translate. There are some violations re: MOS:PARA and MOS:OVERSECTION; I would like you to combine some of the paragraphs in the Members sections. I'm good with both hooks, although ALT0 is funnier. If you go with that, please write out the number "3"; doing that wouldn't take you over the hook length requirement and it follows MOS:NUMERAL. I very much like this article; it's whimsical, fun, and humorous. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:41, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    added ALT0A, tidied paragraphs in the article. -Bogger (talk) 00:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 18

    Raul Meza Jr.

    (
    )
    • ... that serial killer Raul Meza Jr. began using drugs at age eight?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Swinub (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Swinub★ 04:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Article meets all the relevant guidelines, hook is cited to a brand of MSNBC which is considered reliable by consensus. Hook is interesting, nice work! It is a wonderful world (talk) 22:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • I have pulled the hook over WP:DYKBLP concerns. Regardless of the fact that he is primarily known for negative reasons, unduly focusing on a negative aspect about a living person violates the rule (it would be due to have a hook about his murders, but not about something he did as a kid and what he wasn't known for). A new hook will need to be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:58, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT1: ... that when the serial killer Raul Meza Jr. was asked if he was apologetic, he asked: "What's the use if a person will not accept it?"?--Launchballer 18:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds better. @It is a wonderful world: Can you please check ALT1? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I like that hook a lot, but I think "he stated" would be better than "he asked", to avoid the repetition of "asked". Also, I don't think it needs a double question mark? It is a wonderful world (talk) 17:03, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT1a: ... that when the serial killer Raul Meza Jr. was asked if he was apologetic, he replied: "What's the use if a person will not accept it?".--Launchballer 17:15, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 19

    German atrocities committed against prisoners of war during World War II

    (
    )
    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 534 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    2019 NFC Divisional Playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay)

    (
    )
    Moved to mainspace by Gonzo fan2007 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 51 past nominations.

    « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Sun Haven (video game)

    (
    )
    • ... that players can marry the leader in Sun Haven?
    "Lucia is Sun Haven’s enthusiastic and magically gifted leader." and "To romance Sun Haven’s Lucia, opt for fiery and magical gifts."
    Moved to mainspace by JuniperChill (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

    JuniperChill (talk) 00:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Note: this may be suitable to run on 30 November, the day after the game is on the Switch as its scheduled to release on 29 Nov at 0700 PST (1500 UTC) according to this Reddit post, which was posted by one of the developers (see the username). I totally forgot about the special hook occasion and only just realised. If not, the 29th will do. JuniperChill (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Also ALT0a: that players can marry Lucia, the leader of Sun Haven?
    • Pretty well-written and interesting article. Both the length and citation quality are alright, however I am of the view that the proposed hooks might potentially be in violation of the rule that "If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact." (WP:DYKFICTION). Would be great if you could propose some other alternatives. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll hope for the best for this one then. I think i've learnt that DYK hooks shouldn't talk about the game and talk about the real word associated with it. JuniperChill (talk) 08:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT2: "that Sun Haven did not gain a lot of attention until full release in 2023?"
    ALT3: "that only a few games combine farming RPG like Sun Haven does?"

    Sources: https://www.thegamer.com/best-farming-games-ranked/ "This indie gem has flown under the radar for a surprisingly long time, not gaining much attention until it had its official 1.0 release in early 2023" and https://www.thegamer.com/sun-haven-worth-it/ "Few games blend farming RPG mechanics, casual slice-of-life interactions, and high fantasy styles like Sun Haven does" for ALT2 and 3 respectively

    @Kingoflettuce: Pinging for a return to the nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:58, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd hate to be that guy, but I really don't find ALTS 3 and 4 interesting at all. Maybe others might? The article is rather well written and the other DYK criteria aren't an issue. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 13:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thinking about this, I would have to agree. ALT2 is very vague (it is not uncommon for early access games to not gain traction until much later, let alone full release games), while ALT3 as currently written is also pretty vague and not very hooky. Taking a look at the article, I'm actually not sure if the article is even a good fit for DYK as there doesn't really seem to be any hook material in it, not even in the Reception section. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:21, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The only remaining options I can see in the article could be either of the following:
    ALT4 ... that the 2023 life simulator Sun Haven has been compared to Stardew Valley?
    ALT5 ... that a reviewer described the game Sun Haven as similar to Stardew Valley, but more magical and fantastic?
    Stardew Valley is a very popular and well-known game (saying as someone who's yet to play it), but I'm not actually sure if the angles would work if readers don't know Stardew Valley. In addition, JuniperChill has a notice on their talk page saying they are on Wikibreak until the end of the month: should the nomination continue in their absence? Pinging Kingoflettuce again for input, or possibly other editors like RoySmith and Launchballer regarding the latter question. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, im on a christmas holiday rn which is why I made almost no edits this month. As my talk page says, I will be back sometime around 30 Dec. I would think alt5 is the way to go because it adds more info than alt4, but I should put this nom on hold until at least new year. JuniperChill (talk) 06:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:DYKTIMEOUT suggests we should keep this alive until Jan 20th. RoySmith (talk) 16:08, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 21

    Renildo José dos Santos

    (
    )
    • ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was tragically murdered in 1993 after publicly declaring his bisexuality, and his murderers only started serving their sentences in 2015?
    Created by MikutoH (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    --MikutoH talk! 23:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @TheBritinator: it may not be. But is it? You didn't state your perspective in a concrete way. --MikutoH talk! 17:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I removed the apparent non-neutral POV~. Since it wasn't specified which part, now I think it's neutral. --MikutoH talk! 20:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:
    ALT2 ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after publicly coming out as bisexual? ("Tragically" is commentary that should be avoided per WP:WTW, the second seems to be commentary that might also not meet NPOV).
    Tragic but sadly not uncommon, so I'm not sure if it's "unusual" enough to meet WP:DYKINT, so maybe other editor can chime in? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: I would say ALT2 is good. TheBritinator ([[User talk:TheBritin --MikutoH talk! 21:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)ator|talk]]) 16:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I support ALT2 as well. --MikutoH talk! 21:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Doug Hamlin

    (
    )
    Moved to mainspace by Queen of Hearts (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 13 past nominations.

    charlotte 👸♥ 23:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, then for me it's interesting enough that they went after him for something that happened that long ago. I therefore propose ALT1 ... that after Doug Hamlin was appointed CEO of the NRA in May 2024, anonymous employees called for his suspension over something that happened in 1979? which I believe sidesteps the negative bit.--Launchballer 16:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 22

    Sugya

    (
    )
    • ... that the composition of a sugya, or passage in the Babylonian Talmud, has multiple layers, with the latest edited with an anonymous voice?
    • ALT1: ... that a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, may be read as folklore, philosophy, proto-feminist, or legal virtuosity? Source: Folklore -- Stein, Dina (2019). "Linguistic Liaisons: Wives and Vows in the Babylonian Talmud (BT Nedarim 66a-b)". Nashim: A Journal of Jewish Women's Studies & Gender Issues (35). Philosophy: Lévinas, Emmanuel; Aronowicz, Annette; Lévinas, Emmanuel (1990). Nine Talmudic readings. Bloomington: Indiana Univ. Press. ISBN 978-0-253-20876-7. Proto-feminist: Hauptman, Judith (1998). Rereading the rabbis: a woman's voice. Boulder, Colo.: Westview Press. ISBN 978-0-8133-3400-4. Conceptual "virtuosity: -- Moscovitz, Leib (2003). ""Designation is Significant": An Analysis of the Conceptual Sugya in bSan 47b–48b". AJS Review. 27 (2): 227–252. Let me know if quotes from sources would be helpful.
    • ALT2: ... that anonymous editors may create a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, by rewording quotations by earlier rabbis? Source: Moscovitz, Leib. "'The Holy Blessed One Be He... Does Not Permit the Righteous to Stumble': Reflections on the Development of a Remarkable BT Theologoumenon." In Rubenstein, Jeffrey L., ed. Creation and Composition: the Contribution of the Bavli Redactors (Stammaim) to the Aggada. Mohr Sieback, 2005, p126 "Second, the anonymous BT redactors contributed to the Talmud by reformulating amoraic dicta, not just by adding to their statements." Friedman, Shamma (2005). "A Good Story Deserves Retelling – The Unfolding Of The Akiva Legend" in same book: see p.72 "anonymous voice in the sugyot... original and creative rather than simply preserving or transmitting"
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tony Pajaczkowski
    • Comment: Open to suggestions with the hook, trying to avoid insider jargon. Also, please help with my faulty template use in the QPQ. Btw, "proto-feminist" isn't quite parallel structure.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 04:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    ILEA Educational Television Service

    (
    )
    • ... that a cable TV channel in the UK was still broadcasting primarily in black and white as late as 1979?
    • Source: "Both the ULAVC and ILEA had converted into colour production by 1980, however, the now old GPO VHF cable network was only just capable of transmitting high quality colour (it was originally designed for analogue black and white in 1967)."
    https://blogs.imperial.ac.uk/videoarchive/ilea-channel-7-network-1968-1979/
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Nylix4488 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Nylix4488 (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Thank you for the fix, but it still doesn't completely match the article. The article does not directly support the "still broadcasting primarily" wording, and indeed the article doesn't even directly state if there was still a black-and-white broadcast in 1979. Given that this is a TV station-related nomination and with how this has been stuck for a while, I'm asking Sammi Brie for help with the nomination and article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've actually heard of this thing, believe it or not. And I have indeed located a reference to this effect in The Times Educational Supplement. We are good on that front, but there is still a paragraph missing an ending citation, Nylix4488. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 25

    Frederick Warren Freer

    (
    )
    Frederick Warren Freer
    Frederick Warren Freer
    Moved to mainspace by Kimikel (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 26 past nominations.

    Kimikel (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • The article was moved to mainspace on time and a full QPQ has been performed. No close paraphrasing was found (the yellow result on Earwig is a false positive due to repeated mentions of institutions), and both hooks are cited inline and verified. Either hook can be used. The image is public domain so acceptable, but it is probably a bad fit for the Main Page owing to it not being that good quality (the eyes and facial features are not that good at that resolution). There's only one minor issue holding this back: ALT1 is supported by the source, but the current wording of the article does not suggest he studied medicine first before switching, but rather he studied art in lieu of medicine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, a reword to the article would suffice in fixing ALT1's issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 26

    Family Stress Model

    (
    )
    • ... that the Family Stress Model helps explain how economic hardship impacts children and adolescents through family-level processes like interpersonal conflict between caregivers and disrupted parenting?
    • Source: "We consider the Family Stress Model (FSM) as a useful framework for understanding the family stress process and its potential impact on children’s lives. As illustrated in Figure 1, the FSM outlines a theoretical process by which economic hardships and pressures (Boxes 1 and 2) exacerbate child and adolescent maladjustment (Box 5) primarily through parents’ psychological distress (Box 3), interparental relationship problems (Box 4a), and disrupted parenting (Box 4b). Box 6 involves additional risk factors that may intensify and protective factors that may dampen the family stress process. Since proposed by Conger and his colleagues there have been at least three published reports that review systematically the extent of empirical support for the FSM." (Masarik & Conger, 2017; Stress and Child Development: A Review of the Family Stress Model, p. 85).
    • Reviewed:
    Moved to mainspace by MezLazYaz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    MezLazYaz (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Comment @MezLazYaz Not a review. The lead of the article needs work as it doesn't even acknowledge that the FSM is a theory. The very first sentence needs to define what the Family Stress Model is. The first seven words in the lead should/must say "The Family Stress Model is a theory..." You can talk about it growing out of something after you have given a succinct definition in the opening sentence. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section.4meter4 (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Alessandra Rojo de la Vega

    (
    )
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Alan Islas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

    Alan Islas (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: No - Not done
    Overall: Notwithstanding Tbhotch's comment, QPQ has yet to be done. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 11:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 27

    Carlisle Chang

    (
    )
    • ... that Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, "possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean", was destroyed during an airport expansion?
    • Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [20]
    • ALT1: ... that "the most important work of art in the Caribbean", Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, was destroyed during an airport expansion? Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [21]
    • ALT2: ... that Carlisle Chang helped design both the flag and the coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago? Source: "Eventually, Chang got down to work, doing designs at night and submitting them on mornings to the Ministry of Home Affairs whose officials would eventually fly to London where the final designs had to be vetted and approved by Herald’s College. Chang disclosed that the Coat of Arms contains one key input from then premier, Dr Eric Williams, first prime minister of independent Trinidad and Tobago. “He wanted Tobago on the top of it, and that’s what he got. The palm tree on the top is Tobago.”
      For the flag, Chang opted for blocks of red, white and black with very precise dimensions. In an interview with Banyan he explained that he was “determined that a child should be able to draw it with a ruler.”" [22]
    • Reviewed: pending
    Moved to mainspace by Guettarda (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 37 past nominations.

    Guettarda (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: Yes
    • Interesting: Yes
    • Other problems: No - n
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.

    QPQ: No - Not done
    Overall: Taking on this review. Guettarda, the article is solid and well-sourced. All three hooks are interesting, but ALT0 and ALT1 refer to Chang's work as the most important of the Caribbean, which seems like a huge claim. It might be better to attribute this assertion to the sources in accordance with DYKDEFINITE. Earwig shows a 44.1% similarity to the sources, but I believe this is due to the numerous direct quotations. I performed a spotcheck on sources 1 and 3 and found no major issues, although source 1 notes that Chang's father actually originated from Canton, China, so you might consider adding this detail to the article. Also, there is a missing square bracket in the quotation "Tobago at the top of [the coat of arms" in the National symbols section. Please ping me once you have completed the QPQ and addressed the issues mentioned above. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 06:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Prince of Erebor: Thanks so much. I completely forgot about the QPQs. I'll get to that and the other stuff ASAP - I'll ping you as soon as I'm done. I ran it through Earwig's myself and was surprised how high it was, but it was the quotes. Guettarda (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 28

    Tema "Sacher"

    (
    )
    • ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" "a pathetic fragment which can only be explained by the desperate state of the composer's health at the the time"?
    Created by CurryTime7-24 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 53 past nominations.

    CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Two minor issues. The first is that the citation gives page 369 as the source of the wuote. Unless I'm mistaken, that appears to be incorrect. The second issue is that the citation must be repeated at the end of the sentence from which the hook is derived, meaning you need both the first and second sentences of the critical reception section to have citations at the end for ALT1. Otherwise, I think we're good to go. ~ Pbritti (talk) 00:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @CurryTime7-24: Please address the above.--Launchballer 22:09, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: Please give me a few hours to take care of this. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 02:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, done! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 17:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 29

    Ripken (dog)

    (
    )
    Created by Johnson524 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 20 past nominations.

    Johnson524 11:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: No - The Manual (misspelled as The Manuel) used for ALT0 seems to be a clickbait-like website run by Digital Trends, which I would disqualify as a reliable source. InspireMore (used for ALT1) also seems to have journalistic standards and an editorial staff, but is very low quality; surely there's better sources out there?
    • Interesting: Yes
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Article need some work, especially in the sourcing department. ALT0 would be usable with some cleanup and a better source. SounderBruce 04:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • @SounderBruce: Thank you for the review, and I'm sorry for submitting this article in such a poor state, I didn't realize how many things were wrong with it! I have removed The Manual source from the page, replaced the ALT0 source with a much better one from Golf Digest, and added a supporting source for ALT1. I'm really bad at copyediting, its something I wish I was better at, but I believe I've removed the worst of the informal wording from the page, so please feel free to tell me what other corrections I can do for the page. Thank you again, and cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Hefker

    (
    )
    • ... that hefker, unowned property in Talmudic law, came to express both personal freedom and societal abandonment in 20th C. Yiddish poetry?
    • Source: Brenner, Naomi. "Milgroym, Rimon and Interwar Jewish Bilingualism." Journal of Jewish Identities 7, no. 1 (2014): 23-48, including "in Yiddish modernism hefker becomes a new mode of poetic identity that at once celebrates and suffers from this lack of belonging" " In contrast to Bergelson and Markish’s freedom and movement, Stencl’s hefker-yung is no free modernist spirit, but rather a crucified Jesus" Murav, Harriet. "David Hofshteyn’s Poetry of Listening." Lyre–Studies in Poetry and Lyric 1 (2023) including: "This essay examines the multiple resonances of the Jewish term hefker (literally,“unclaimed, abandoned, or neglected property”)... The pogrom cycle, as a whole, is a journey through the broken time and space of antisemitic violence."
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/René Vallon
    • Comment: While there are potential hooks from ancient Jewish law alone, the use of this dry legal principle in modernist Yiddish poetry is pretty amazing IMO and new to me. If we're concerned people won't know words like Talmudic and Yiddish, the hook can substitute 'Jewish' for either or both. Thanks.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Gonna suggest an alt :)

    • ALT0a: ... that some 20th century Yiddish poetry incorporates the Talmudic concept of hefker?

    Mm, not quite. Trying to figure out how to emphasize the time disparity. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 1

    Qvadriga

    (
    )
    Created by Hahnchen (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

    hahnchen 00:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 2

    Recategorization

    (
    )
    • ... that in 2003, Rwanda adopted a constitution that recategorized Rwandans of Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa ethnicities into one identity, banyarwanda?
    • Source: Beyond Conflict and Spoilt Identities: How Rwandan Leaders Justify a Single Recategorization Model for Post-Conflict Reconciliation

    Authored by Sigrun Marie Moss and published in the Journal of Social and Political Psychology in 2014. PDF available at: [23] Quotes: "Since 1994,the Rwandan government has attempted to remove the division of the population into the ‘ethnic’ groups (ubwoko) Hutu, Tutsi and Twa and instead encourage people to think of themselves only in terms of a common national Rwandan identity. This approach can be classified as recategorization of social identities– a process where subordinate identities are replaced with a shared or superordinate identity in order to improve intergroup relations." ...

    "This comprehensive recategorization approach is based on a meta-narrative that essentialises Rwandan unity and de-essentialises ethnic identities, in a context where alternative narratives are not permitted. The 2003 constitution forbids genocide ideology, and a 2008 addition further limits identity discussions. These strict genocide ideology laws ban everything seen as divisionism, implying limited freedom of speech on topics of identity, political power and representation."
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Paradox38 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Paradox38 (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • @Paradox38: Welcome to DYK! New enough in mainspace (moved December 2) and long enough. Nominator is QPQ-exempt. The hook fact checks out. This is a promising page but needs action to proceed:
      • All paragraphs beyond the lead section need to end in an inline citation. The paragraph beginning in The challenges facing might be fine since it's basically a summary of the cited paragraphs, but I see three paragraphs that have uncited portions. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 14:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • I've indicated them with tags. From what I understand the first two seem to be clarifying sentences, so could be removed if needed. The third one has additional content that would be more of a shame to remove. CMD (talk) 17:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 3

    2024 attack on the Bangladesh Assistant High Commission in India

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    )
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Za-ari-masen (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Za-ari-masen (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 4

    Ly Singko

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    )
    Created by Kingoflettuce (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 173 past nominations.

    KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 07:13, 5 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • At the moment, I'm unsure if I will give this a full review or not, so for now this is just an inquiry: I'm really not sure what the connection is between her growing up in a Catholic household and working for the Kuomintang, to the primary hook fact (the "glamourising" aspect). I understand that there's supposed to be a contrast between the allegation despite him being involved with the Kuomintang, but I suspect that readers will not immediately get the connection. More importantly, the part seems to add unnecessary complexity to the hook: just saying he was imprisoned for "glamourising" should suffice per WP:DYKTRIM since that fact itself is already interesting and the part doesn't seem essential to the hook fact. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I just realized that the hook is 198 characters, or just a hair below the 200-character limit, so it definitely needs trimming. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    At least a hundred other suspected communist sympathisers were imprisoned during this period, but I thought what made this especially interesting was that he (not she!!) was Catholic and had worked for the Kuomintang's news agency. The irony should be quite obvious (or so I thought)... And if something is under the limit, albeit just by 2 characters, shouldn't it technically still be permissible? 😅 (As opposed to being 2 characters over...) KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 12:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kingoflettuce: As mentioned per above, per WP:DYKTRIM, excessive detail and facts should be removed if they are not essential to the hook fact. According to the old rules (and also continued in spirit in the current guidelines), hooks slightly below the 200 character limit can still be rejected per editor discretion. Actually, I've gone ahead and struck it, so a new hook is needed. As for the misgendering, I apologize: the pronouns are now fixed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well yeah but as I said I thought the details weren't excessive, rather they REALLY added to the "interestingness" of the charges. It'd be like if a Jan 6 participant was found to be a dedicated ActBlue donor or something. Oh well. I sure hope it's not just me who finds the irony much too obvious though! KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 14:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I did a bit of a mini-survey on Discord and all the responses said the original hook was too complex or detailed, so it wasn't just I who had similar views. In any case, please propose a new hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure that's fine, how about ..."... that Chinese-language newspaper columnist Ly Singko was imprisoned for "glamourising the communist system"? Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 04:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds good. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Apologies for not coming back to this sooner. The article was new enough and long enough at the time of the nomination. I did not find any close paraphrasing. As all sources are offline I am assuming good faith on their contents, but all statements are sourced. I checked both QPQs and while the reviews are rather short, I am assuming good faith that they checked all of the DYK criteria. The new hook is interesting, though I will leave it to the promoter if it needs further trimming to remove "Chinese-language newspaper columnist" or not. Good to go. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 5

    Josie Brown Childs

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    )
    • ... that community activist Josie Brown Childs had the title of "Matriarch of the Movement"?
    Created by SL93 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 419 past nominations.

    SL93 (talk) 02:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment. Not a review, but in examining the article it relies heavily on primary materials. The History Makers source should probably directly link to the interview transcript (https://www.thehistorymakers.org/sites/default/files/A2013_248_EAD.pdf) and give credit to Larry Crowe as the interviewer. I would consider this a primary source. I added an independent obituary with a byline but it consisted mostly of quotes so I'm not sure how independent that is either. The Black Metropolis Research Consortium source should be replaced with the original at https://www.chipublib.org/fa-josie-brown-childs-papers/ These papers are housed at the the Chicago Public Library, Vivian G. Harsh Research Collection, Woodson Regional library and were processed/compiled by Elizabeth Loch and Emily Minehart who should be attributed as the authors/compilers of the file. Unfortunately neither of these two biographies have a named authors and they both have close attachments to primary materials (one being principally an interview with the subject with an attached non-bylined biography, and the other papers donated by the subject housed at a library with again a non by-lined biography). It's not clear how independent these sources are from Childs, although I don't doubt they are accurate. The article is also not compliant with MOS:CHRONOLOGICAL. I do think this person is notable, I'm just not certain if the sources currently in the article clearly demonstrate WP:SIGCOV which is a concern for promoting this to the main page.4meter4 (talk) 03:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      4meter4 As for chronological, are you only referring to the death being mentioned under the personal life and death section? SL93 (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SL93 Yes. Biographies should be presented in chronological order; ending with a person's death and maybe a legacy section covering after death significance if appropriate. Generally an "early life and education" section opens an article. Then a "career section". Then a "later life" section which includes a person's death as well as activities in retirement. If possible, it's best to interweave personal life information into the article's other sections and not separate it out in order to maintain chronological presentation. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    4meter4 I did that with a death section until the point that editors whined about me having a short section with a few sentences or less. That caused me to not include death details in their own section for a few years up until you saying something about it. SL93 (talk) 03:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How do these sources look? - [24], [25], [26], and [27]. SL93 (talk) 03:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SL93 I'll look at the sources and get back to you shortly on that point. It is true that short subsections are also problematic under WP:MOS guidelines. If there isn't enough content for a later life section, it's perfectly fine to have a single "Career and later life" subheading. You can bundle topics under one section. Likewise the opposite is true when writing on a person where there is more detail. In those cases you can extrapolate out more diverse subheadings if/when it is appropriate. There is flexibility to expand, remove, and combine subheadings as long you follow both the general MOS and the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography guidelines. Every article isn't going to look the same, but biographies do need to present content in chronological order as much as possible. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SL93 I think those sources look great, and would do a lot to help demonstrate SIGCOV. Please take the time to work those into the article, and also please make the adjustments to the extant sources that I mentioned above if you haven't already. Doing all of that should prevent any notability issues being raised while it is on the main page. The main thing is we don't want an article to get pulled when it is on the main page at DYK because somebody decides to take it to AFD. It's not a good look for the project. Having a good number of by-lined sources helps prevent that. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. I will leave a note here once I'm done. SL93 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm done. SL93 (talk) 02:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I wasn't reviewing so someone else can review this. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Pisidice of Methymna

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    )
    • ... that in Greek mythology, Achilles promised to marry Pisidice if she would help him conquer her homeland, but afterwards he had her executed for treason?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Deiadameian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Deiadameian (talk) 22:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Apologies for not having realised about DYKFICTION - happy to help workshop a new hook Chaiten1 (talk) 14:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Are we really applying DYKFICTION to mythology and legends now? I get the idea but that doesn't seem to follow the spirit of the guideline as originally proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:08, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 6

    Richard Stratton (diplomat)

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    )
    • ... that Richard Stratton's diplomatic career took him from the Pitcairn Islands to "South America to Japan, and from Southern Africa to the foothills of the Himalayas"?
    • Source: quote is from The Times - I also added to the hook his relation to the Pitcairn Islands (see e.g. [28] as a ref for him being the territory's governor)
    Moved to mainspace by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 278 past nominations.

    BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:44, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Prius Missile

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    )
    Created by AlphaBetaGamma (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: @AlphaBetaGamma: Thanks for such an interesting article. I'm from California but I live in Hawaii. Both states have a lot of Priuses, so I was pretty confused by your hook when I read it, because in those two states, the Prius is not really known for crashes. (The joke around these parts is that it's usually a Nissan, but it's not exactly clear why that is). I read your article, and I see that it is mostly about a phenomenon in Japan involving older drivers, which makes a lot of sense and is quite interesting. I think this is the kind of hook (ALT0) that shocks readers (like myself) and increases traffic to your article, but I also wonder if it is somewhat misleading since the hook itself doesn't mention Japan or older drivers. In any case, it's a great hook, but I wonder if it is legit to shock the reader like this. If it is, it's highly effective and would probably get a lot of traffic. I'm not sure if we can trick readers like this, so I will ping a few people and see what they say: @Launchballer and RoySmith: Thanks. ABG, you are also missing the word "as" in ALT1. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    This seems like click bait. I wouldn't run it. RoySmith (talk) 13:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @RoySmith: Thank you, that was one of my concerns. My other question is where is the red line? In other words, some of our most successful hooks approach clickbait, wouldn't you agree? How do you know when you've crossed that line? For me, this hook crosses it, as it doesn't let the reader know that the Prius is only considered accident prone in Japan due to the demographic of older drivers. Perhaps, if it just stopped there, it would be fine, but it doesn't. Reading further, we discover this is just a slang term, and that official data shows that Priuses are no more accident prone than other vehicles, which is what I suspected from the jump. For this reason, I am leaning into crossing out ALT0. Viriditas (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Review
    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Article is new enough and long enough and moved from draft to mainspace. Earwig shows no issues. It's not clear if the nominator is the author of the original article, which was created on ja.wikipedia in mid 2021. If not, I believe you're supposed to attribute when you copy over the material as a translation in your first edit, but you just wrote "start draft". In any case, you've got a fully formed, well written article over at ja, yet you only copied over (or wrote) a minor version of it here. I don't get why you did that. The current version here on en.wikipedia needs copyedits. However, I would encourage you to return to the ja article and import the majority of it back over here, as it makes much more sense and covers the entire topic in a comprehensive manner. As for your hooks, ALT0 is ragebait (see the discussion above), and you got me good! I was genuinely upset as to why the beloved Prius (official car of liberals in the US) was associated with crashes! I clicked so fast and hard that smoke came out of my mouse. It was then that I realized, I had been fooled. More so when I check the original article on ja. Then there's the image of the crashed vehicle. I recall seeing that image before, and I think it's from California. Have you considered using Japan-related images? So, you've got a lot of issues to deal with here, but I can walk you through them. First things first, why not copy over the entire article from ja? It's really well done and would clear up a great many things. Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC) Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Not really, the paragraph
    Extended content
    According to Masaki Kubota [ja], the viral spread of the slang and the creation of the Prius's public image as a crash-prone car is thought to be caused by the extremely large amount of the car in use, the car being popular among older drivers, older drivers usually being overconfident in their driving skills, and the Prius's significance as a well-known car brand.

    Covered the entire "原因" paragraph. Not too sure how much I should cover beyond that. I hope the next ALT is more informing, because the lack of information causing "click bait" seems to be the issue here. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • IMO, "referred to a missile" doesn't really work in English. Also, try rearranging your primary link so that it comes first; that tends to increase views. You may also want to work in the fact that this is a slang term or a meme, as that isn't made clear. As for the main ja article, I'm not clear on the disconnect based on your response. There's a lot of content in that article that didn't find its way here, and it more accurately describes the topic.[29] Viriditas (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was quite stuck, so I reached out for help off-wiki, and some of them argued that specifying too much would not make a good hook. I've had issues thinking of a hook, and for the article itself, you told me a lot of information on jawiki didn't find way into the enwiki version I made. I did try to do my best to cover the content, but my lack of knowledge for cars itself basically barred me from inserting clear details to improve the article. I didn't really want to machine-paste the content either because google translate tends to be faulty for some words.

    TL;DR - I'm stuck, because I thought I wrote a hook that gets views for once, but got turned down because the hook crossed into the boundaries of "click bait". (Aren't most successful hooks clickbaits or borderline clickbaits?) ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 05:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    It's a great question. I asked ChatGPT, and it gave some good answers. Non-clickbait should be 1) accurate 2) transparent, and this last one is the big one, 3) engage the reader through intrigue instead of deception, fabrication, or distortion. As I said above, without mentioning you are talking specifically about Japan and older people, it's pretty deceptive. Viriditas (talk) 08:10, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @AlphaBetaGamma: Provided the article is in acceptable shape, I would support a hook that addresses the points in my above comment. In other words, mention Japan and the older demographic. No reason to still be stuck. Add new hooks. Viriditas (talk) 08:35, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I don't think this is interesting

    Then write a hook that is interesting. You'll also need to fix your lead section, which contradicts what we know about the accident rate. In other words, the slang didn't arise from the increased amount of accidents, but from the perception of it on the internet. It's basically a meme, not a real thing. One of the reasons I asked you to expand the article with the material from the Japanese Wikipedia is it would clear up all of these inconsistencies. It isn't exactly clear to me why you are hesitant to do this. Viriditas (talk) 10:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Lead rewritten with the same thing as jawiki mentioned. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I mean, it reads like a huge improvement to me. Any thoughts come to you about new hooks? Viriditas (talk) 08:38, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 7

    Jewish Ethnographic Expedition

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    )
    Created by Artem.G (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 18 past nominations.

    Artem.G (talk) 07:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Thanks for the review! Qpq is done now. Artem.G (talk) 09:34, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 8

    The Man Who Knew Too Much (Alexander McQueen collection)

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    )
    Created by Premeditated Chaos (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 58 past nominations.

    ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: New enough, long enough, hook fact is interesting and cited to Watt and Bethune. Earwig shows 9.1%, but everything highlighted is just the title of the collection. Good to go.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:26, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 10

    Zhang Boju

    (
    )
    • ... that
      • Reviewed:
    5x expanded by Limengchen2777 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Limengchen2777 (talk) 06:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Ethel Lote

    (
    )
    • ... that World War II nurse Ethel Lote taught yoga classes until she was 95?
    • ALT1: ... that World War II nurse Ethel Lote taught yoga classes until she was in her 90s? Source: "And she taught yoga well into her 90s" [36]
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: First hook is supported by the video in source, but I am unsure if videos can be used as evidence in a DYK nomination so I've added an alt hook just in case.
    Created by Spiderpig662 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Spiderpig662 (talk) 21:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    This article has potential, but there are solveable problems:

    • Article is new and long enough
    • The article relies on sources that are mostly interviews, such as the Dreaper BBC source, which is used at least four times. The blurb relies on Lote's son and herself mentioning this fact when interviewed. This falls as WP:PRIMARY, and I can pass this despite of this, but others may not. The Telegraph is behind a registerwall but can be used AGF.
    • Article is presentable
    • Some sources contradict each other. The 2008 Express and Star reference states she retired at 88 years old. The video cited in the hook states she quit at 95, while the 2020 Express and Star reference states 90s. I'd assume the newer Express and Star is more updated, but maybe this should be in the prose that she retired in 2008, but had continued exercising herself until she was 95? I assume that what was meant?
    • Hook is interesting and short enough.
    • Image is licensed appropriately; impossible to find a free source of Lote as she is now dead.
    • QPQ is waived as creator only has 2 DYKs.

    Howard the Duck (talk) 12:04, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    2024 MLS expansion draft

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    )
    Created by Demt1298 (talk) and Motdattan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Demt1298 (talk) 00:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @SounderBruce, BeanieFan11, and Gonzo fan2007: Is it okay if any of you propose alternate hooks, if it is possible? Also pinging Demt1298 and Motdattan for their input. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:10, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Both hooks are pretty boring, even to this soccer fan. How about this ALT2: ... that the 2024 MLS expansion draft took place at a shopping center? Source: San Diego Union-Tribune SounderBruce 00:29, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe ALT3 ... that the 2024 MLS expansion draft featured only five selections? – the next would need to be added, but perhaps ALT4 ... that the 2024 MLS expansion draft featured the selections of a Norwegian, a Senegalese, a German, a Japanese, and a Brazilian – and no one else? BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:07, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I like SounderBruce's suggestion the most. Just waiting for a response from the nominator before proceeding. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:09, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 11

    Monica Smit

    (
    )
    Created by TarnishedPath (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    TarnishedPathtalk 06:11, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Requesting a second opinion because it is my first DYK review. The article is new enough, long enough, neutral, and Earwig returns 2.9%. The hooks are cited and the first hook seems interesting. The only concern I have is that the article seems somewhat incomplete, since it does not mention much about her background before the 2021 arrest and subsequent legal issues. There are also no sections. But I guess there is not much interest in her early life and background by the sources. AmateurHi$torian (talk) 16:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @AmateurHi$torian, I haven't found anything about their early life at this point in time. There is material about them auditioning for Survivor and not making it past the audition stage, but there's not much depth to that. The survivor stuff would probably only justify a sentence. The current state of the article is what I intend to be lead and I will expand out from that when I have time and motivation to write it. TarnishedPathtalk 02:01, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I see. In any case, this is approved from my side, just waiting for the second opinion.AmateurHi$torian (talk) 08:57, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Current nominations

    Articles created/expanded on December 12

    Colin Platt

    (
    )
    • ... that Colin Platt was a British scholar of the Middle Ages who lamented the separate approaches of historians and archaeologists?
      • Reviewed: to come
    Created by Gaia Octavia Agrippa (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 49 past nominations.

    Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk 00:24, 19 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General eligibility:

    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation

    QPQ: No - Not done
    Overall: Pending the QPQ review, this is good to go. I have some non-DYK related comments that I'll put on the talk page. Richard Nevell (talk) 18:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Mark Hearld

    (
    )
    • ... that a Christmas card featuring "a hand-coloured winter thrush" by artist Mark Hearld was included in a 2021 exhibition of Christmas greetings by modern British artists?
    • Source: "How to get my ho-ho-ho mojo back? In their print room, Pallant House in Chichester have mounted an exhibition, Christmas Greetings by Modern British Artists. Here are more than a hundred offerings from Edward Bawden, Ben Nicholson, John Piper and John Craxton. There is a marvellous David Jones engraving of a candlelit mass and Emily Sutton’s cat that got the Christmas pud. Ed Kluz, whose architectural drawings lean towards the gothic (follow him on Instagram), gives us a lovely, lonely city church with a Star of Bethlehem above. Ben Nicholson’s Christmas card of 1939 is a marbled, modernist grid with coolly geometric snowballs, while Gary Hume, once a YBA, moulds a snowman of minimal spheres. Barnett Freedman goes wassailing in his lithographic Christmas card of 1953, Edward Bawden’s linocut lion rampages through the presents and Mark Hearld’s hand-coloured winter thrush rings the round robin changes. There’s a bookmark-shaped Christmas card by Enid Marx wishing recipients not Merry Christmas, but a Happy New Year. Perhaps she was running even later than I am." The Spectator
    Created by Thriley (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 155 past nominations.

    Thriley (talk) 20:35, 17 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: Yes
    • Interesting: No - Not concise enough; see below.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Moved from draftspace five days before nom and sized at 2012 B. Page is reliably sourced and everything is verified. The lede is short, but consider this fix optional. Wasn't sure if the "thrush" was intriguing, but the weirdness and linking of the word helps. However, the hook doesn't feel concise enough and I'm having trouble making a hook that doesn't duplicate "Christmas card" and isn't short, but these two fit the bill enough:

    • ALT1: ... that one of the designs shown at an all-Christmas card exhibition was "a hand-coloured winter thrush" by artist Mark Hearld? Source: Same as ALT0
    • ALT2: ... that "a hand-coloured winter thrush" by artist Mark Hearld appeared on one of the Christmas cards for a specialised exhibition?Source: Same as ALT0

    Oh, and I found another one while checking at Earwig, it's more interesting and this is in case it's not done in time for Christmases Eve or Day.

    @Thriley: Thoughts? ミラP@Miraclepine 00:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Mahra Al Maktoum

    (
    )
    • ... that Sheikha Mahra Al Maktoum invoked the controversial practice of triple talaq to divorce her husband, which isn't customarily performed by women against men?
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Jolielover (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    jolielover♥talk 05:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • "Rarely performed" seems like it is standard practice, but only rarely occurs. Triple talaq is not rarely performed by women against men, it is never performed, as in it is not even allowed in Islamic law for a woman to divorce her husband that way. Maybe the hook could be worded differently, which makes it clear that she ignored/broke the restriction or law which prevented her from obtaining a divorce that way? AmateurHi$torian (talk) 14:47, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 13

    Madagascar banana

    (
    )
    • Source: "Only five mature individuals of E. perrieri have been previously identified in the whole of Madagascar, and a recent survey has suggested that now only three of these may be left (Analavelona, Ampefy and Maintirano areas)." https://www.kew.org/read-and-watch/madagascan-banana
    • ALT1: ... that the Madagascar banana is critically endangered? Source: https://www.kew.org/read-and-watch/madagascan-banana
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: No QPQ required as Laffuble will own this DYK as you can see from talk page. I (Chidgk1) just put it in for them and will deal with any questions they might be unsure about being relatively new to Wikipedia
    Created by Laffuble (talk).

    Chidgk1 (talk) 16:13, 16 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Hello Laffuble, welcome to DYK, I hope you have a wonderful time here! I have a few concerns regarding the article which I will outline below, and will ping Chidgk1 since there are outstanding inquiries about the state of this article:
    ALT0 is truthfully the most interesting of the two hooks proposed. Plenty of things out there are critically endangered, it is a conservation category onto itself. The severely restricted population serves as a much better hook. However, the hook as it stands right now is not supported by the material within the article and the source, which states there are five mature individuals rather than three. I will strike ALT1 from consideration.
    iNaturalist is not a good source for the plant's morphology, nor is Rarepalmseeds, which is a site with commercial interests. A much better source for that information is either a study or the original description, if it can be located. iNaturalist's image gallery being a source falls into WP:OR. Google Scholar is a helpful source for finding research papers regarding Ensete perrieri, if you're stuck finding trustworthy sources.
    Earwig detects no copyvio issues, long enough, and new enough. I hope this can be of help to you! Ornithoptera (talk) 07:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Ornithoptera: We have made some changes - is it ok now?

    Chidgk1 My apologies but I see that you have simply replaced the problematic sources for the “Description” section, rather than consulting the source and making the necessary changes to the article using the information presented there. That will not be enough to allow for the article to pass scrutiny. Would you be able to take a look at the source rather than simply replacing the original citations? In addition, the hook has not been updated per my request, since it is not supported by the article text. Ornithoptera (talk) 19:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've taken a look at the cited article and the description for E. perrieri is as follows: Ensete perrieri (Claverie) comb. nov. ; Musa perrieri P. Claverie in Comptes Rendus Acad. Sci. Paris 140 (1905), 1612, nomen, et in Ann. us. Colon. Marseille ser. 2, vol. 7 (1909), p. 74, descr. cum ic. t. 8., this will not serve as a viable source for the passage. I would be most ideal to first consult with the source before using it in the article. I noticed that you and Laffuble had issues with accessing sources, the Wikipedia library at WP:LIB, if you have made enough edits, can be a great resource since it has institutional access to several journals that can be of use. Ornithoptera (talk) 19:16, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Ornithoptera: Thanks for explaining Wikipedia Library. Have added quote for hook - is hook OK now? If there are any remaining problems with the description please could you comment in the talk page section below this as it is easier to reply.Chidgk1 (talk) 08:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Tarif-i Husain Shahi

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    • ... that in the illustrated manuscript Tarif-i Husain Shahi, the image of the queen sitting on the king's lap was washed away by her son?
    • Source: Michell, George; Zebrowski, Mark (1999-06-10). Architecture and Art of the Deccan Sultanates (PDF). Cambridge University Press. p. 147. Partly scratched away but still visible, perched on the sultan's knee like the consort of a Hindu god, it must be Khanzada Humayun (Fig. 108). The portraits document her rise and fall, for, like the other two Muslim women who managed to rule India, Nur Jahan and Raziya Sultana, her fortunes ultimately suffered a terrible reversal. Painted into the manuscript in 1565, at the height of her influence, her figure must have been removed in 1569, when, after four years of rule as regent, she was imprisoned by her rebellious son, anxious to accede to his father's throne. We further assume that the vandal, not realising that the heroine of the dohada page was also the queen, as the king does not accompany her, left it undisturbed
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: Please feel free to make changes to the alt; Its wording seems a bit awkward to me
    Created by AmateurHi$torian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    AmateurHi$torian (talk) 19:05, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • ALT1 = ... that the illustrated manuscript Tarif-i Husain Shahi contains one of the rare depictions of a queen in Islamic art?" Source: Michell, George; Zebrowski, Mark (1999-06-10). Architecture and Art of the Deccan Sultanates (PDF). Cambridge University Press. p. 145. The text stresses the rule of both Husain and Khanzada Humayun. Such political prominence was rare for women in Islamic society in India and the Middle East, and female portraiture did not exist. Female figures in Persian miniatures are the heroines of poetic romance, not real women. The Tarif proves to be deeply unorthodox and highly significant, for the queen herself appears in six of its twelve illustrations!

    Decolonization is Not a Metaphor

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    • Source: Combination of Indigenous sovereignty was never ceded, and the continued presence of settlers is essentially illegitimate. [37] and [38] which explains how "Decolonization is Not a Metaphor". The paper itself as a primary source also supports the first part of the hook.
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Chess (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 05:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Thus far, I have been unable to verify that the paper "calls for the return of the United States to indigenous sovereignty." Neither of the two sources you cite above appear to support the statement, they just say the paper calls for a stricter interpretation of the meaning of the word "decolonization", which is a very different thing. Gatoclass (talk) 22:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Gatoclass: That's a very good point. What about "views the United States as fundamentally illegitimate?" Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 22:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, you would need a source for that statement. Gatoclass (talk) 22:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gatoclass: This is very verbose, but what about that the title of a paper describing the continued presence of non-indigenous in the United States as being illegitimate has become a slogan for pro-Palestinian protestors? The claim that settler presence in the United States is supported by the source, the only thing I've done is explained "settler" as being "non-Indigenous" because the average person would be more likely to understand that. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 05:46, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, a quote from a source confirming the hook statement would be required at minimum. But these suggestions thus far all look a little tortured to me. How about keeping it simple and straightforward, something like:
    ALT4: ... that the title of a 2012 academic paper, "Decolonization is Not a Metaphor", has been adopted as a slogan by pro-Palestinian protestors? Gatoclass (talk) 06:20, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gatoclass: Sure, that works. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 06:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Having looked a little more closely at the article, I'm not sure your interpretation of the paper is accurate. Certainly, it's a difficult text to come to grips with - at least for me, as it contains a lot of academic jargon that tends to obscure the authors' meaning to a non-professional in the field. But for example, you state: "Tuck argues that ... because the existence of settlers on stolen land is illegitimate [it] must be redressed by decolonization". Did he really say that? Because I would have thought that if he had, the paper would be more notorious than merely influential. On the other hand, if he is only saying that that's what decolonization must mean, he is simply defining a term rather than arguing in favour of it, and there is a world of difference between the two.

    However, since most of the article is sourced directly to the paper itself, without clarifying quotes, it's hard to know whether your interpretation is accurate. I'm not even entirely sure if the paper itself doesn't count as a primary source here, which might also be problematic.

    So, is there any chance you could provide some actual quotes from the paper, or better still perhaps, reliable secondary sources that have written about it, in order to clarify the point? Because I think it's obviously an important distinction to get right. Cheers, Gatoclass (talk) 06:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Gatoclass: The article is far from perfect and I welcome suggestions to improve it as I'm less experienced than I should be with writing from scratch.
    I looked into this when you raised it the first time. The closest thing in the text I can find right now is We don’t intend to discourage those who have dedicated careers and lives to teaching themselves and others to be critically conscious of racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, xenophobia, and settler colonialism. We are asking them/you to consider how the pursuit of critical consciousness, the pursuit of social justice through a critical enlightenment, can also be settler moves to innocence - diversions, distractions, which relieve the settler of feelings of guilt or responsibility, and conceal the need to give up land or power or privilege. (emphasis mine)
    So, the authors explicitly acknowledge a need for settlers to give up land. Likewise, page 10 of the paper criticizes decolonial scholars that enable "settler moves to innocence". I will likely have to make the article more directly explain what Tuck and Yang said, with better inline citations.
    Also, Eve Tuck is a woman with she/her pronouns (at least on her website). Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 07:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 14

    Shō Taikyū

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    • ... that the Okinawan king Shō Taikyū was reportedly protected by an all-female bodyguard?
    • Source: Smits, Gregory (2019). Maritime Ryukyu, 1050–1650. Honolulu: University of Hawai'i Press. doi:10.2307/j.ctvsrfmz. ISBN 9780824877095. p. 93
    Smits, Gregory (2024). Early Ryukyuan History: A New Model. Honolulu: University of Hawai'i Press. doi:10.2307/jj.8441682. ISBN 9780824898205. p. 211
    Improved to Good Article status by Generalissima (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 93 past nominations.

    Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 07:04, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Recently promoted GA. Hook is interesting and cited. No copyvio detected. QPQ done. I don't see any issues with this hook or the article. Nice work! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The Valiant Girl White Rose

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    Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 722 past nominations.

     — Chris Woodrich (talk) 18:12, 14 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Reviewing this as a QPQ requirement. Howard the Duck (talk) 21:22, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is almost good to go:
      • Article is long and new enough.
      • Article is well-sourced
      • Article passes Earwig tool.
      • Most of the article is sourced on books that are not available online. I can accept this AGF. Article subject does exist.
      • Article is presentable; no tags at all.
      • Hook is short enough
      • Hook is mildly interesting, but can possibly be rewritten to be hookier. I would suggest having a cast and characters section to drive home this fact, showing Wu Suxin who plays Bai Suyin are both "white roses".
      • Photo in article is appropriately tagged.
      • QPQ has been done
      • There are no other issues.
    • Howard the Duck (talk) 00:01, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The article already has "The title of the film, The Valiant Girl White Rose, drew both on the name of its star and on contemporary vernacular. Wu Suxin was also active under the name White Rose Woo,[4] though in the film the name is associated with Bai Suyin's propensity for wearing roses." I don't see how a cast and crew section will help. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 15

    The Man in the Yellow Tie

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    Created by OlifanofmrTennant (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 18 past nominations.

    Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Daniel Hermann (humanist)

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    Moved to mainspace by Yakikaki (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 145 past nominations.

    Yakikaki (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 16

    Dethloff Willrodt

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    Created by Aquabluetesla (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Aquabluetesla (talk) 18:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Limia, GAARlandia

    ( Comment or view )
    ( Article history links:
    )
    Limia tridens male
    Limia tridens male
    • ... that limias (L. tridens pictured) and other freshwater fish and land vertebrates are controversially hypothesized to have colonized the Caribbean islands via a mysterious land bridge?
    Improved to Good Article status by Surtsicna (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. Nominator has 187 past nominations.

    Surtsicna (talk) 22:43, 17 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: I just saw the Limia page on the recent list of Good Articles (congrats btw!), so I had to give this double nom a look. There is just one minor thing I'd fix: either beside or at the end of the sentence containing the direct quote "weak and non-existent" in the GAAR article, could you put a citation? Other than that, everything else checks out and I'd be happy to pass this. Cheers! Johnson524 09:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Of course. Done. Thank you for noticing limias! :) Surtsicna (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Approved for both hooks, cheers! Johnson524 22:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    2014–15 College Football Playoff

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    Improved to Good Article status by PCN02WPS (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 82 past nominations.

    PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 23:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Should it be specified to be American history? The current wording is vague and doesn't state if it was worldwide or just in the US. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:35, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Narutolovehinata5: the source wording is a little vague as well: Ohio State’s 42-20 victory over Oregon at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas – averaged 33,395,000 viewers and an 18.2 US household rating, according to Nielsen, delivering both the largest audience and highest rating in cable television history. The Nielsen rating is definitely US-only and I think the same is true for the viewers but it's not explicitly stated one way or the other. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 23:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Given that it is an exceptional claim and given with the circumstances it will almost certainly find scrutiny on WT:DYK and/or WP:ERRORS, it may be for the best to propose a new hook using a totally different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:49, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Amata of Assisi

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    5x expanded by Figureskatingfan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 53 past nominations.

    Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:41, 16 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Article is new and long enough. Both hooks are present in the article, interesting, and sourced. The rest of the article's sourcing looks good as well. Earwig returns nearly 25%, though most all from direct quotes. My only issue with this is a lack of attribution, particularly using It was said..., which is sort of a meaningless expression - it would be great if you could replace that with the attribution of the quote. QPQs are needed - since you have over 20 DYK credits and we're in backlog mode, you'll need two. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 23:32, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @PCN02WPS: wow that was fast. I will take care of your comments and complete the QPQs, probably by end of the day tomorrow. Thanks for the review. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:54, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @PCN02WPS:, both QPQs done. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Awesome! Just the "it was said" issue above (It was said that Amata's decision to become a nun was an answer to her aunt's prayers... - the quote in that line needs attribution) and then we should be GTG. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 19:55, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, right. All done, thanks. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 06:02, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @PCN02WPS:. TSventon (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    sweet! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 18:06, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 17

    Flag of Okinawa Prefecture

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    Flag of Okinawa Prefecture
    Flag of Okinawa Prefecture
    • Source: 沖縄のシンボル [Symbols of Okinawa]. Okinawa Prefecture Official Website (in Japanese). Okinawa Prefectural Government. Retrieved December 17, 2024.
    Created by Yue (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 26 past nominations.

    Yue🌙 10:27, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Very well sourced and illustrated article! New enough, long enough, and both hooks are interesting (but I have a personal interest in ALT1). The only thing I did not go fully in-depth on was all the sources, as many are in Japanese, and in that case I am AGF because I don't speak the language. Thank you for your quality contributions, cheers! Johnson524 10:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    1925 Tri-State tornado

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    Track of the 1925 Tri-State tornado
    Track of the 1925 Tri-State tornado
    • ... that the 1925 Tri-State tornado (track pictured) had a path length of 219 miles (352 km) across three states?
    Converted from a redirect by EF5 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 14 past nominations.

    EF5 15:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Per WP:DYKSPLIT, splits from non-new articles are not considered "recently created"; instead, they are treated as expansions from the copied material. Since the third revision seems to be the point where you switched from copying to writing new prose, I'll calculate from there. That version had 23601 characters of prose, and the current version has 26147 – nowhere near close to a fivefold expansion. However, I see that you have nominated the article for GA; if it passes, that would make it eligible for DYK. jlwoodwa (talk) 22:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Autoflow

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    Created by Maury Markowitz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 202 past nominations.

    Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: @Maury Markowitz: A few issues: (i) there is a maintenance tag on the article, as it has no categories – this needs to be fixed; and (ii) could you provide a direct quote verifying it as the first software patent? In the cited article I read that "In 1968, Goetz applied for a patent for the program; in 1970, it was one of the earliest software product patents granted." Might be missing it, but I'm not seeing it explicitly referred to as the first, as opposed to one of the earliest. Add categories and let me know the part of the source confirming it as the first and this should be good. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Well caught, wrong link. I can't seem to cut and paste from PDFs any more, so if you go here and scroll to page 10 you will see "for the first time computer software is being covered by a patent from the U.S. Patent Office. Autoflow... is to be the first patented program." Worth noting that this was not Goetz's first software-related patent, he got another in 1968 for a sorting system but that was not "a program" in the sense this is. Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks, I think this should be good to go now. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:31, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Jahangir Preferring a Sufi Shaikh to Kings

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    • ... that a painting depicts the Mughal emperor Jahangir preferring a Sufi saint to the Ottoman sultan and the King of England?
    • Source: Smee, Sebastian (2021-03-03). "A Mughal masterpiece". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on 2024-07-28. Retrieved 2024-12-08. It shows Jahangir, the great Mughal emperor and patron of the arts, sitting cross-legged on a throne that takes the form of a European hourglass. Beneath him are four people, slightly smaller in scale. The lower one is Bichitr, the artist who painted it. Above him are King James I of England, the Sultan of Turkey and – uppermost at left, the object of Jahangir's rapt attention – Shaikh Hussain. Shaikh Hussain was a Sufi descendant of the revered saint Khwaja Mu'in-ud-Din Chishti. It was to this saint's shrine that the emperor Akbar once prayed for a son. Jahangir himself was the happy result. One of the Persian couplets that appear in cartouches above and below states: "To all appearances, even as kings and potentates stand in attendance upon him, his gaze falls, inwardly, ever upon holy dervishes." In other words, Jahangir – for all his immense worldly power, evoked by the magnificent jewels on his fingers and the transparent delicacy of his body-clinging jacket, or "jama" – knew what mattered.
    Beach, Milo Cleveland (1981). The imperial image: paintings for the Mughal court. Freer Gallery of Art, Washington. pp. 168–169. Ettinghausen argued that it is precisely this choice of holy men over secular rulers, of the divine over the mundane, that is the subject of the illustration. He notes the putti above, who seem both dazzled by Jahangir's splendor and distressed that their emblems of worldly sovereignty are rejected
    5x expanded by AmateurHi$torian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 5 past nominations.

    AmateurHi$torian (talk) 14:31, 17 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 18

    Debris fallout

    (
    )
    • ... that debris lofted by tornadoes has been known to rise over 6 km (3.7 mi) into the atmosphere and can be transported up to 353 km (219 mi) away?
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: The height range for the Super Outbreak was 5.5 to 6.5 kilometres, so I went with the figure of 6.0. Probably one of the most interesting tornado science-related topics that exists.
    Created by Departure– (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Departure– (talk) 18:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • I am afraid I have concerns here related to article size. Only 100 words are in the prose section, which also doubles as the lead and is just a single paragraph. Then the rest of the article is a list of events grouped under 'notable events', which, a) is in the bullet point format (and thus not counted by the prose size checker), and b) is problematic - notable according to whom? This is a list with no clear criteria. Overall, I am afraid this article is just too short for a DYK - it does not have a lead section. Please ping me if this is expanded to at least have 250 words of non-bulleted prose, and I'll comment here again. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:40, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Christmas carp

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    Carp in a bathtub with onlooker
    Carp in a bathtub with onlooker
    Christmas Eve carp dinner
    Christmas Eve carp dinner
    • ... that the Christmas carp swims in a bathtub for a few days before becoming Christmas Eve dinner?
    • Source: "He then placed the carp in a big, strong plastic bag and handed it to Marada's parents. In keeping with time-old tradition, his parents took the carp home and placed it in the bathtub - its new home - where it would swim for a few days before ending up on the table for Christmas Eve dinner." NY Times
    Created by Thriley (talk) and Grimes2 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 156 past nominations.

    Thriley (talk) 18:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Western Kentucky University swim team hazing scandal

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    Improved to Good Article status by JJonahJackalope (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 55 past nominations.

    JJonahJackalope (talk) 18:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Rockwell PPS-8

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    Created by Maury Markowitz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 203 past nominations.

    Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Overcrowd: A Commute 'Em Up

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    Created by CanonNi (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Aon v Australian National University

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    Moved to mainspace by MaxnaCarta (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 15 past nominations.

    — MaxnaCarta  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:10, 18 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 19

    Special occasion holding area

    See also: WP:SOHA

    The holding area is near the top of the Approved page. Please only place approved templates there; do not place them below.

    Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
    Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: Hold criteria; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: Six week limit.
    April Fools' Day hooks are exempted from the timeline limit; see Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know.
    Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&oldid=1263848249"