Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trace Bundy (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. However, given that the group nomination led to some mix of opinion about individual pages, it should be acceptable to separately renominate individual albums for a more focused discussion if desired. RL0919 (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trace Bundy

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Recreation of a previously deleted article but still lacking in reliable sources: the only independent source is a notice that ten years ago a guitar magazine voted Mr. Bundy as one to watch, and that's it. The decade since then has brought absolutely no in-depth coverage whatsoever in reliable independent sources, apart from this [1], which appears to be mainly a primary source interview. Richard3120 (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colorado-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Lubbad85 (☎) 00:58, 28 May 2019 (UTC) [reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because Mr. Bundy's albums are equally non-notable – none of the articles are sourced, and no reliable independent sources have been found:

Richard3120 (talk) 19:29, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:30, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~*Weak Delete~~ There is some stuff that hovers between run-of-the-mill promotional/appearance and something a bit more in-depth [2]. And recognition, albeit just once as a "newcomer" 12 years ago, from Acoustic Guitar Magazine. But 2 small things it's not enough for indisputable evidence of RS recognition. If someone can dig up more I'd consider changing to Keep. As for the albums, I'm not sure these non-notable small label releases minus RS reviews merit their own pages, even if this one about the artist winds up being kept. ShelbyMarion (talk) 13:11, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Struck Weak Delete, as promised, and changed to keep per additional sources found. ShelbyMarion (talk) 13:22, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:20, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Once a subject is notable it does not lose that notability = just like Noah Raby. Will try to WP:HEY this article. The subject is well known and notable. WP:ATD should be considered. Lubbad85 (☎) 00:58, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Lubbad85: you're correct that a subject does not lose notability. But do you have any sources to show that the subject was "well known and notable" in the first place? Richard3120 (talk) 01:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Richard3120 This afd needed a thorough WP:BEFORE. The Subject is extremely well known and notable. I have started the clean up and references. These things take time... WP:NOTPAPER Lubbad85 (☎) 02:33, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The magazine Guitar Player covers him at [3] and interviews him at [4]. So with that and the coverage mentioned by the nominator, that makes two reliable sources giving him significant coverage. The General Notability Guidelines are met. I see a lot of results to sort through if anyone wants to find more to work on the article with. [5] Google news search for his name and either acoustic or music to make sure its the musician. Dream Focus 04:37, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for reasons already cited. WP:Not paper. No apparent compliance with WP:Before That article can be improved, but the test should be what it can become, not what it is presently. WP:I don't like it is no reason to inflict the Wikipedia equivalent of capitol punishment. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:18, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, 7&6=thirteen, I most certainly did do WP:BEFORE, and considered many of the sources mentioned above to be very poor-quality ones, which is why I felt the subject failed WP:GNG – they are mostly primary source interviews or gig listings. I don't think the Guitar Player sources are at all useful, for example: an interview and a video both demonstrating the use of a piece of equipment, no biographical information whatsoever. But I'm happy to go with the articles in the Colorado Springs Gazette, The Daily Record and MetroWest Daily News to tidy the article up, and then I'll withdraw the nomination – although I think the albums should still be redirected. But I have no idea where you got the impression that I don't like the subject, and find your equating of an AfD nomination made in good faith to capital punishment pretty ridiculous, to be honest. Richard3120 (talk) 17:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No disrespect intended. When I said you did not do WP:before I meant no insult. I WP:AGF. Rather, the article as presently constituted now shows lots of WP:SIGCOV by multiple WP:RS. Which you missed. I'm not saying you didn't try, only that you whiffed in the attempt. I find that doing a search through bing.com frequently uncovers sources that are missed by google.com and its variants (which are listed at the top of this page). Those may require you to go through multiple pages. Indeed, merely looking for "Trace Bundy" may be less effective than "Trace Bundy Guitar". I hope that assuages your feelings.

Note: I have tidied up the article using some of the sources suggested above and I am happy to withdraw this AfD. I still plan to redirect the albums to Mr. Bundy's page, as they appear not to be individually notable, unless anyone can find sources for them as well. Thank you to everyone who found sources and made suggestions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:08, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep artist page - Keep the artist page. I think we need a separate discussion on the album/song pages before they are redirected (the history of these pages should not be deleted if the artist page is kept). If this page can not be kept, it should be redirected to Sungha Jung#Performances. --Jax 0677 (talk) 19:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jax 0677, the page will be kept because as I've stated above, I'm withdrawing the nomination. I don't know what history of the albums you plan on keeping – they are literally just track listings and nothing else, and completely unsourced. Richard3120 (talk) 19:28, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reply - @Richard3120:, the default for no consensus is keep. Barring a consensus to delete the album articles outright, the album article history should be kept in some form. --Jax 0677 (talk) 19:43, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jax 0677: then I'll have to renominate the albums separately, because there really is no article history for them at all. Richard3120 (talk) 19:46, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Not sure how many of the subject's albums are notable. I spent a bit of time on the latest release Elephant King. Richard3120 has been there to see the start of references and layout...In regard to the albums I would say WP:NOTPAPER and WP:RUSHDELETE It would take a very long time to slog through these stubs and make them relevant. Lubbad85 (☎) 23:47, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Lubbad85: I'm genuinely in no rush to renominate the albums – as you've probably seen, I've been trying to help out on Elephant King, rather than deleting it. Richard3120 (talk) 00:20, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Richard3120 I agree. I guess I am not confident I can do enough rapid repair on the articles. I started some on the "Adapt" album. I will take a break. Sorry for the snippy WP:... Lubbad85 (☎) 00:24, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep for the Bundy bio, which is crap at the moment but seems to be on a notable enough topic, but redirect all the unsourced album stubs, and trout all the blanket keep !votes based on sources found for one of the articles up for deletion. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:53, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note I've moved O Night Divine (Trace Bundy album) because even if it's not deleted there's no way that was the right title. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:46, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the musician, delete the albums. The album articles are a bit promotional and I've only been able to find reviews or honestly any third party discussing Elephant King, but I'm not sure those reviews are necessarily independent. Other than that it's just page after page of music database regurgitation, which isn't that uncommon for a not very notable artist. Bundy himself arguably passes WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 23:12, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep the bio page, lose the rest. He has 2x independent news media here, but all mentions appear to be local to Colorado as far as I can tell: here & here
A Note: since it is a bit hard to vote on individual album keep/delete, I want to suggest that we Keep Elephant King. The album article can be/is sourced and the other albums I have no confidence in being able to reference. To blanket delete all of the albums may not be a good answer WP:PRESERVE. Perhaps a redirect on the other albums and keep on Elephant King. Lubbad85 (☎) 17:53, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Right now Elephant King contains two pieces of sourced information, both quotes, of which one is from a review in a local publication in Boulder, Colorado, and the other is from a website that is apparently not notable enough for us to have an article on it. Furthermore, it's almost as bad an offended as the aforementioned "O Night Divine" when it comes to the title, and so whether or not it is kept it will need to be moved and the current base title redirected to an unrelated page. I expected to Google it and find a lot of stuff about Babar the Elephant, but it seems there was significantly more on The Elephant King (2018 film), which in turn is not even the primary topic (as far as Wikipedia currently indicates) for its own title; I suspect we will probably need it to be a disambiguation page. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:21, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.