Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CK Khai (Cin Kim Khai)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:56, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CK Khai (Cin Kim Khai)

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Non-notable singer-songwriter. The article doesn't seem to be satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (people). Most of the references are local blogs with dubious editorial oversight and do not meet verifiability. Even this references do not support his biography, career and discography. Phyo WP (message) 08:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Phyo WP (message) 08:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 11:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete I concur with nominator, the lack of comprehensive coverage in reliable sources means this fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Cape Diamond MM (talk) 13:37, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - One problem here is that the article does not give the native Burmese spelling of his name, which could be used in a search for media coverage. He could have coverage in his own country, but if so it will not be under the English spelling of his name. With that being said, this article does have Burmese text for the titles of several of his albums. I did searches for all the Burmese titles listed, and found that none of them have gotten beyond social media and streaming sites, and a few are mentioned briefly in local blogs. With all of his albums being unnoticed in reliable sources, we can assume that he is also unnoticed as a musician overall. With hundreds of songs and several books, but no media coverage, he is a non-notable bedroom hobbyist at best. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I think the original creator of this article made a mistake that he/she translates all song names and book names into Burmese language. Actually the person in this article is from one of 7 main ethnic groups of Myanmar, namely Chin. Chin people use their own language (Chin language) that was created by a British Missionary so based on English Alphabets. The creator of this article should have left all those Chin names without translating into Burmese and I have fixed it. When I made search with the original Chin names I found a lot of search results including songs, sermons and international tours which means this person is an influencing person for his own people, a legend who created several songs that are sung in every church of Chin People around the world (there are many Chin people in US, Australia, India, Malaysia and other countries too). Although Chin may be a small group of people compared to the world's whole population, we should respect what they value and treasure. And I can help improve the article. Nemkdim (talk) 12:48, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All of the search results using Burmese and Chin languages leads to Facebook, YouTube and local blogs which fails to satisfy WP:RS. --Phyo WP (message) 16:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My vote above was based on searches for the Burmese titles that Nemkdim says were illegitimate. I searched again under the corrected titles that are now in the article, but got the same type of results in social media and streaming sites (though a lot more YouTube videos this time), plus occasional unreliable blogs. Those sparse blog entries don't indicate the widespread international influence claimed by Nemkdim. This still does not add up to the "significant" and/or "reliable" coverage rules at WP:NMUSICIAN and WP:BLPSOURCES, which are the most relevant Wikipedia policies for this situation. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 01:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Doomsdayer and Phyo, could you please try searching by "CK Khai on Spotify", "CK Khai on iTunes", "CK Khai on Amazon". I did try and found tracks listed in Discography section of this article on those music stores. I found "Zeisu Hi", "Psalm 138:6", "Lungmuan Na", "Kei Lel", "Aw Nem", "Mai Pha", "Tai Tampi", "ABC La", "Zua Aw" on Apple music and some others on Amazon and Spotify. I am adding this up because those music stores are very strict to and serious about the credibility of the artists and the originality of their art works. Only the original creators of those masterpieces can use these platforms. Thinking that might be a help for consideration. One more thing to consider (from my personal opinion) is the all around development and digital literacy of the ethnic groups (Chin, in this case) when thinking about the sources. Music stores, social medias and streaming things might be the best things they know or they can do for now. To what extent we should be strict on the inclusion of this population and their participation in this community? Nemkdim (talk) 03:16, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is important to know that someone does not get a Wikipedia article just because they exist, or in the case of musicians, just because their material is available for streaming or retail. Phyo and I have already provided links to Wikipedia policies that dictate when a musician becomes eligible for an article here: WP:RS, WP:NMUSICIAN. and WP:BLPSOURCES. See also WP:EXIST, WP:PROMOTION, and WP:NOT. And finally, if knowledge of Myanmar's ethnic minorities and their cultures is being repressed, that is indeed a very unfortunate problem, but trying to promote unlucky entertainers in the English Wikipedia is not the solution, nor should it be. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It's fails WP:GNG. Shin Khant Maung (talk) 09:21, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notability is not just a fame or popularity. What I see is that, while some popular people from Myanmar, even the second prize winners of a singing contest are getting in Wikipedia with a few references source like an interview video from YouTube, article about a legendary person from an ethnic group is receiving harsh comments. You probably have decided notability by just how well you know that person...Burmese Wikipedia editors from Myanmar are somewhat ignorant and less respectful to other minorities (ethnic groups) in Myanmar. At least you should have given constructive comments and encourage the article writers how to make this topic or article more acceptable in Wikipedia in the future...My last comment is, "notability/being noteworthy is not just a fame or popularity".. comment added by Maizinlat

My vote isn't not applicable on my personal. I don't want to vote to delete in any kind of articles.Especially,the articles that related to Myanmar. I understand that it's difficult to get a good article because we were spent our time and our mind on it . So,I tried to find the references to get a reliable reference.But I can't. I also ethnic. I so sorry.Shin Khant Maung (talk) 15:00, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per the nominator and the user who is arguing to keep is actually making a strong argument to delete, 'notability/being noteworthy is not just a fame or popularity.' You are partially correct, but fame or popularity helps because there are RS about individuals who have fame or a popular i.e. notable.VViking_TalkEdits 14:16, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.