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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Adraeus (talk | contribs) at 09:08, 8 February 2018 (→An issue to watch). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Parody Site

Is the link to the parody site really the only link that could be found for this guy? 70.106.238.123 19:35, 18 December 2005

Errors and mistatements

I would like to talk with marty Goldberg about editing my changes to Nolan's bio. Since I am Nolan's daughter, and have Nolan's permission to edit his bio, I think the edits I make which are accurate, as well as footnoted, should be the default edits. Marty, I am more than willing to discuss this with you. Please feel free to email me - my contact info is on the uWink Website www.uwink.com. Thanks!

Alissa

How wikipedia works is anyone can edit an entry, no permission required. Likewise, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a press release. There are very specific guidelines on POV statements ("some people", "original" or "first" with out providing evidence to support it, etc.), and what entry content is to include and not include. It strives to be neutral, reporting both critical (which you keep editing out,and is documented as well) and non-critical information. Lastly, the section you keep editing is not directly in relation to Nolan's background but rather the company you are currently a part of with him. Wikipedia has clear rules on this, and there is a conflict of interest on your end As Vice President of Marketing and Public Relations. Your very position puts you even more at odds with this rule as its your job to put spin on the company image. If you want to add figures and such about the products (which belong in the uWink article and not here), that's wonderful and you're certainly a great source for that. But Wikipedia is not a site for self promotion, and that includes using an SEC filing (which itself containts press release style text) as documentation for anything other than figures,d ates, etc. You have your own web site and press releases for the PR you're looking for. --Marty Goldberg 20:25, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Home Pong and the correction to the decades long incorrect telling of events (most likely sourced from the rife with errors ZAP! book) of Home Pong and that it was was laid out and designed by Harold Lee as per Al Alcorn's direction. Bob Brown's involved came 6-7 months later for chip testing. The idea of "Color Consumer Pong" came from a 1973 Engineering memo written by Bushnell. The Engineering Memo, copies of the circuits for Home Pong's IC and along interviews in 2012 with Al Alcorn and Harold Lee completely correct with supporting evidence the true accounting of events for the creation of Home Pong. --Curt Vendel 27 January 2013 —Preceding undated comment added 17:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for taking this to talk. I appreciate the book you have written quite a bit and am aware of your knowledge of these issues, but you do have a little to learn about both Wikipedia sourcing and academic discourse. You assume that I am some random editor just going off a few old mistruths without looking into the issues more completely and therefore just ignore me, which is not helpful. Yes, I have read Zap, but that is hardly a source I would use to confirm anything about Home Pong, so lets not mention that book again. I have researched video game history quite thoroughly in hundreds of sources and have training as a historian, so I have some idea of what I am talking about. I am also aware that you have collected many Atari sources that I have never seen and should be considered one of the premiere authorities on the company in the world. On a personal level, that gives me a great deal of respect for both you and your work, which is groundbreaking and invaluable. From an academic scholarship perspective, however, your book, like any other work, is only as useful as its explicitly stated sources when it is evaluated vis-a-vis other sources for inclusion of specific facts on Wikipedia. While wikipedia may not be the most scholarly place on the planet it is still a community, and one individual does not get to state by fiat that his is the only one true and correct telling of events and then expect everyone to just take his word for it. You must present your sources like anyone else.
Now to get one major issue out of the way, I think there is a high degree of probability that you are right. With your inside knowledge of some of these events, I would never take your words lightly. Unfortunately, however, your book fails to do two things that are critical to the scholarship (as opposed to the facts) of the issue. First, there is no direct quote in the book regarding the contention that Lee approached Alcorn first about Home Pong. I assume it comes from Lee since he is quoted in that section, but not on that one point. There is also no documentary evidence presented on this point: I know all about the 1973 memo, but it is not pertinent to the source problem being discussed here. Al Alcorn has previously stated on numerous occasions, including a retrospective he penned for the IEEE, that Lee came to him with the idea, not the other way around. I know his memory has been faulty on the history before, and I would love to know if he changed his story in more recent interviews with you, but your book does not address this contradiction. Bob Brown has also spoken out about Home Pong on two separate occasions and taken credit for providing some of the initial idea to Lee. I know he was not an Atari employee at that point, but he was friends with Lee, so that in no way disqualifies him from having a role in the gestation of the idea. I have no idea how reliable Brown is as a source, or whether you talked with him, but his version of events would not contradict Alcorn's previous recollections (though Alcorn does not corroborate the story either). Basically, there are three versions of the story (Alcorn goes to Lee, Lee goes to Alcorn, Brown and Lee brainstorm together and then Lee goes to Alcorn) from the three main people involved, and no presented documentary evidence that can settle the issue. Wikipedia is concerned with reporting facts from reliable sources. Your book certainly counts as one; so do the sources that contradict your work on this point. Policy would therefore dictate that all versions of the event must be presented and sourced. I would love to know more about the sourcing you used, however, as I personally want as much accuracy as possible on this matter. Indrian (talk) 17:34, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No photo

Can we add a pic of Mr. Bushnell? I mean, he's an important person. --TKGB 00:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A photo was added some time ago 156.34.219.162 20:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New External Link...

It's a video about the history of videogames starting with an interview with Bushnell himself. Well, if anyone objects to me adding this external link, I'm not gonna take it off without a good reason. Abby724 00:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Minor Edit

I made a correction about the name "Atari." In chess, "check-mate" implies an end-of-game condition, while "check" implies a temporary condition. "Atari" in the game of "Go" is more like "check" in chess.

Fair use rationale for Image:Nolan Bushnell.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not a Mormon

"During my first quarter of college at the University of Utah, I was at a thing called the institute of religion and I got into it with one of the professors. I told him what I believed Mormonism stood for. I was always willing to say that there were a lot of interpretations, but the professors were people studied in Mormonism and I didn't believe, nor do I believe, that you should interpret the Bible literally. I'm willing to take things with a grain of salt and Mormonism creates good people, but I'm not going to endorse dogma that I think is hoo-hah." Games People Play --Zerothis (talk) 17:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Atari: the movie

Real interesting...

According to Variety, Leonardo DiCaprio is slated to star in the upcoming film “Atari” based upon Nolan Bushnell’ s life. DiCaprio’s Appian Way production company will produce it, Paramount Pictures will release it, and the script is currently being written by Brian Hecker and Craig Sherman.

[1] -- Stormwatch (talk) 14:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Atari redirects to DiCaprio now. IMDB vaguely lists this as "in development." Anyone provide an update? If they aren't making the movie it should probably be stated. Cellmaker (talk) 13:19, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:FOOD Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Restaurants or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. You can find the related request for tagging here -- TinucherianBot (talk) 10:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Counter slip" state machine

The article says

The “counter slip” state machine technology which drove Computer Space was later patented and served as the core technology for all arcade video games until 1975 when microprocessors appeared on the scene and soon became the technology of choice.

I can find no mention of "counter slip" state machines other than this article in Wikipedia and copies of this article. I could find no patents that mention this technology. The change was made by IP address 70.33.69.155 on 03:31, 12 June 2006, so following up with the original poster would be difficult. I've marked the patent portion as "citation needed". The technology behind Computer Space is very interesting as it does not use a microprocessor, a citation about this technology would be of note. US 3793483 , "VIDEO IMAGE POSITIONING CONTROL SYSTEM" is close, but does not mention "counter slipt state machine. Cxbrx (talk) 07:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning of Atari

The article gives a glimpse of the meaning of the word 'Atari'. Quite rightly, the description used - 'check-like move' - was kept very brief. This useful phrase was changed to 'a type of move'. I have reinstated the earlier phrase, as I feel the original was more useful. There are differences between atari and check of course but, more importantly, there are also similarities. Each alerts the opponent to a situation of danger, in which (s)he stands to lose some material. I feel the brief use of the original term is a useful very brief analogy to a reader who may have only partial knowledge of chess. Trafford09 (talk) 09:19, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The main difference is a check is a move you must respond to or you lose. An atari you don't have to respond to, it's usually urgent, but not always so. I guess it's alright for that description. Fafas (talk) 01:15, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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An issue to watch

In light of Bushnell's Pioneer Award for GDCA this year, a number of industry ppl have spoken out against it [2]. Right now, I'm not sure to include it per BLP (they are claims) but this might develop as at least one person has tied it to the #metoo movement. --Masem (t) 03:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More [3] --Masem (t) 05:29, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
More [4] --Masem (t) 14:28, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For the time being, I oppose inclusion of the “GDCgate” affair on the Wikipedia page for Nolan Bushnell. I oppose the inclusion because I think it’s important that we do not silence the voices of women, especially that we do not silence the voices of women who were there and who worked for Atari while Nolan Bushnell was president. That in mind, here are some women’s voices:

Former female Atari employee Elaine Shirley wrote:
I worked for Atari from 73-99. I was there during the Nolan era.. It was the 70's, we had fun. To my knowledge, no one ever did anything they did not want to do. At Atari, there was NO hostile work environment. The GDC should ask the women that actually worked there during that time. I support Nolan getting the award. Geez, next they will be pulling awards given to the Beatles, Led Zeppelin and the WHO.. It was a different time.
#istandwithnolan source

Another woman’s say on the matter:

Former female Atari employee Loni Reeder wrote:
So.... let’s take a step back and look at the overall situation:
It started with a 38 year old disgruntled ‘uber feminist’ woman/game designer from Massachusetts running for Congress who had a less than stellar experience in the predominantly male-dominated video game space, resulting in what came to be known as ‘GamerGate.’
Using the ‘MeToo’ movement and a moment in time for which she had no firsthand knowledge............
And with zero complaints lodged against Nolan or complaints about the work culture by employees working at Atari during that time...........
And based on archival newspaper and magazine interviews with Nolan and others chatting about a work environment, time and culture that existed 40 years ago.........
A work environment everyone - men and women - happily worked in TOGETHER... and partied in TOGETHER (or didn’t party in - there was no pressure and no judgement).... an environment that has resulted in decades-long friendships, marriages, ‘little Atarians,’ business partnerships and frequent reunions......... providing us with amazing memories, and for most of us, spending the rest of our work careers attempting to replicate the MAGIC of the Camelot that we were lucky enough to work at.
By arming herself with a topical movement and being personally disgruntled and ‘offended’ by an environment existing 40 years ago which she played no part in - an environment she had ZERO first hand knowledge of.......... and ‘intimating’ those of us who worked with or around Nolan, Al (Alcorn), the Gene’s (Lipkin and Landrum), Joe (Keenan), Steve (Bristow) and the rest of ‘Mahogany Row’ had been sexually assaulted, abused and disrespected by (in her estimation) abominations to the male species.......
Yes, based on her political aspirations, personal assumptions and libelous accusations against a man where no complaints have been raised or filed - she made a big, unfounded noise against Nolan - and the ‘Pioneer Award’ honor was withdrawn.
Atari was a large corporation with many facilities... but I worked in Corporate Headquarters, interfaced with every department in the company as a part of Communications, Security and Facilities groups....... and in being ‘adopted’ by the Coin-op and Industrial Design groups, I also spent a great deal of time in the Engineering (‘hot tub’) building, which would be the two locations where most of the fun and craziness occurred.
From my vantage point and having a first-person perspective of this time and the Atari environment, what has been done to Nolan is falsely mischaracterizing him for a lifestyle that did no harm or wrong to anyone.
Nolan created a company environment which opened the doors to many women into a field where they were never included before: HI TECH. Nolan never discriminated on any level and gave everyone a chance to prove on their own merits that they could be a part of Atari. From soldering boards to building arcade cabinets, drawing schematics and artwork to working on the assembly line.
For me personally, Nolan was the final word in my being hired at Atari - my first full-time job after college... he continued his belief in me years later, when we cofounded uWink in Los Angeles where I became an ‘equally compensated’ Vice President.
Nolan never profiled a person by their gender as to whether or not they were a fit for the job. He based his decision on the person’s skill, ability and passion for the job - because of that belief, we always rose to the occasion! We were a bonded teamship... AND A FAMILY.
Atari also saw a woman - the amazing Carol Shaw - go on to fame!
For me, and I’m sure for other women who will weigh in....... while this ‘feminazi congresswoman wanna-be’ may believe she is doing ‘Atari womankind’ a favor, in reality, she has done us a disservice by creating victims where there were none.
Personally, I am extremely angered by her words and conduct in this matter... not just for Nolan, but for the women of Atari - all of us!
We ALL were, and remain to this day extremely strong and intelligent women...... and there isn’t any ‘man’ who would dare take advantage of us (not if they intended to procreate in the future!).
My other anger is the callous and unnecessary hurt I’m sure this matter has inflicted on Nancy and their kids and grandkids.
Finally... by not doing their due diligence before terminating the honor, the GDC did a disservice to Nolan, to my fellow Atarians - and to the truth.
Nolan was extremely gracious in this matter via his tweet… Hopefully the GDC will right this misstep on their part at some point in the future.
source

That in mind, I do not see Nolan Bushnell being someone who harassed women nor someone who made women feel uncomfortable. If we start putting up the accusations, we will also have to put up the rebuttal from women who were there and saw the culture first hand, because otherwise Wikipedia will be silencing women’s voices.

(Note that I will change my mind about this matter if a female Atari employee from that era comes forward and says she felt uncomfortable working for Atari.)

Samboy (talk) 21:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree we need these counterpoints about the nature of the world at the time he was at Atari; I have already include Elaine's as it came from a published magazine, but the facebook account unfortunately is unusable as a source. That said, I also saw another source at VentureBeat that discussed the issue both ways.
We do actually need to included as even those that wanted GDC to pull the award were not ignoring Bushnell's contributions, they were more worried about the GDC's timing with the matter relative to #Metoo. --Masem (t) 21:48, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I do not like the fact that we are silencing Loni Reeder’s voice on the matter. While we prefer not to use primary sources, this is a case where a pedantic following of Wikipedia’s policies causes a negative result. We should include her voice, and we should use her Facebook posting as the source until such time comes that someone in the press feels inclined to no longer silence her. WP:IAR Samboy (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I just added the VentureBeat article I saw, which listed out how several former Atari employees spoke out at Atari Museum to counter the original complaints, including their reasons. Also just found Le Monde mentioned Loni's stance (though not her full statement). --Masem (t) 22:44, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. It looks like we are coming up with a balanced and neutral look at this issue. Samboy (talk) 23:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have edited the part that quotes Loni’s Tweet to be her own words, instead of being an English → French → English double translation. See https://twitter.com/lonireeder/status/958922473101078529 for the original (as per Wiki bureaucracy, this is indisputably notable because it was published, in French, by a reliable source) Samboy (talk) 23:34, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As a personal note, while I think the way Atari was handled in the 1970s was reasonable considering the culture that existed at the time, I also feel what was OK then is not OK today and would not condone a company being managed that way here in 2018. Samboy (talk) 19:06, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Masem: If you believe information is missing from my edits, please add it. Do not revert wholesale. Adraeus (talk) 19:38, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits put a spin on the issues not representative of the issues at play. Workplace gender makeup is not mentioned at all in sources. There are no specific accusations aimed at Bushnell, only that he ran his company in a very sexist manner (from those making the statements), and that it was the timing of the award that they had issue with (in light of #metoo), not Bushnell himself. I fully support making sure that those former Atari employees that stepped forward to defend Bushnell spoke out, it's just that we have to reflect what the issue presented by Wu and others properly. --Masem (t) 22:01, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I removed spin, not added it. A few things:
  1. The Game Developers Conference and the Game Developers Choice Awards are two very different things.
  2. It is redundant to specify why he was chosen to receive the Pioneer Award in the very article about him. The reader knows what he did by this point.
  3. There are plenty of specific accusations by the uninvolved, distant third parties, aimed at Bushnell. Do your research.
  4. There is plenty of evidence that he did not run his company in a sexist manner. You stating otherwise indicates the spin you want to add to the article.
  5. It was not just the timing of the award that caused Brianna Wu to make up shit. Read all her tweets, not just the ones you cherry picked to make your case.
If you continue to try to spin this section of the article in favor of Wu, I will fight you. Adraeus (talk) 09:07, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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