Talk:National day

Why a seperate article?

There must be a reason that this article is separate from Independence Day. They don't call the 4th of July "National Day" in the United States. If they don't call it such, then please don't list it. --Jiang 19:22, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

To further complicate matters, October 1 is called National Day and is a national holiday in Hong Kong. July 1 is called "Establishment Day". --Jiang 20:10, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There are differences between National Day, National holiday and Independence Day; The National Day is defined in the article. Perhaps this could be expanded to say that it is the day when the primary national celebrations take place. Many - maybe most - countries do not have a particular day called National Day. The term is a definition. As such, it is reasonable to say that the National Day of the USA is 4th July. This happens to be Independence Day. Some countries have a National Day that is not their Independence Day. The definition of Independence Day is self explanatory. National holiday is a looser term describing any day that is a holiday throughtout a country. Most countries have several National holidays in a year. One of these may be the National Day and also Independence Day (e.g. USA). In Britain the National Day is not a National holiday, nor is it Independence Day. --Arcturus

How do you explain calling July 1st "National Day" in Hong Kong when the term would mean October 1 in all other contexts? This is just confusing... If this is a mere definition, then "day" should not be capitalized. --Jiang 18:34, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Some of the listings at Independence Day are not really dates of independence. This article can and should explain the specific occaision as is done at Independence Day. --Jiang 18:36, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Quote from the CIA World Factbook on Hong Kong:

National Day (Anniversary of the Founding of the People's Republic of China), 1 October (1949); note - 1 July 1997 is celebrated as Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Establishment Day

So the article should be updated with 1st Oct for Hong Kong (I'll do it). I think the date attributed to HK at the moment is the old National Day. It would improve the article if further information about the nature of each of the National Days was given. Any volunteers? (I might make a start) Arcturus 18:56, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Fomatting the list

I personally think the list of dates would be a bit more viewable if it were, in some sense, tabulated. I tried, but I'm no Wiki formatting fundi, so I couldn't get it right. Warrickball 11:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Warrickball but unfortunately share her/his backwardness! I also think a list by date would be very helpful, and easy to do once the alpha list is tabulated. Deoxyribonucleic acid trip (talk) 10:02, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

United Kingdom: 2nd Saturday in June

What's that about then? It's not something that immediately leaps to mind. -- Francs2000 | Talk [[]] 15:15, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

2nd Saturday in June is Trooping the Colour day, also known as the UK National Day, at least by some establishments. As with the other national days in the UK it's fairly low key within that context. It is, however, the closest we've got for the UK as a whole. Perhaps a note to clarify this in the article? I'll do it if agreed.Arcturus 17:38, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It has never been known as 'National Day' to my knowledge, and no ACT of Parliament accords it such status. That the date is 'the second Staurady in June' confirms this.

Yes please, I hadn't associated Trooping the Colour as a National Day, so other readers are probably also going to be confused. -- Francs2000 | Talk [[]] 18:49, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The usual reason given for a National Day is idependence, liberation, revolution or constitution. As the UK has never considered itself to have become independent of any other state, to have been liberated, does not have a constitution, and the revolutions it has had (Civil War and 1688) were quickly treated as though they had never taken place, there has been no need for a National Day. This is of course what makes the CIA fact book on this point specious nonsense.

Given that this day is not, in fact, celebrated nationally in the UK (and indeed I've managed to live in the UK all my life without even knowing that such a thing allegedly exists), how can it be described as a national day at all? It makes no sense to give a date in the article which is completely unknown to the majority of the population of the country that supposedly celebrates it. It would be better to explain that some countries, like the UK, simply don't have anything that remotely resembles a "national day" at all. — Haeleth Talk 15:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The second Saturday in June is the Queen's official birthday. Trooping the Colour is part of this celebration. It has nothing to do with anything resembling a UK national day.Drc79 13:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, let us please take out this National Day for the UK. It is a possible candidate, if one were forced to name a day (but St George's day would be just as good), but it is miles and miles away from being a national day. Not one person in a hundred could tell you when it is, it isn't a public holiday. So it isn't a national day in any sense at all. So Denmark isn't the only country not to have a national day, the UK is exactly the same. TIME TO CHANGE THIS. Vronks (talk) 21:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

It the Queen's Offical Birthday it is regarded as the nearest thing to a National day in the United Kingdom and is thus regarded by British institutions over seas, particularly British Embassies, as such maybe that should be indicated without fulling stating it as the national day. --Lemonade100 11:25, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Birthday of Thai king

The birthday of Thai(land)'s current king is listed as a National Day, however the article defines national day as the date of nationhood or independence, which seems to indicate that the king's birthday is not a national day. —Tokek 00:29, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Rosie

Shouldn't that be explained, why Rosie is the ruler.....? otherwise it might be quite confusing... who is rosie, etc...?

Merge suggestion

• Oppose National Holiday and National Day are actually two separate phenomena. Most countries have several national holidays in a year, but usually only one National Day. Keep the articles separate for clarification. Arcturus 20:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• Support. If you actually read National holiday, you'll find that what it describes is in fact the same as a national day. We should therefore merge any useful information from that article here, and set National holiday up as a disambiguation page linking both here and to Public holiday, which is the sense of the word you appear to be thinking of. — Haeleth Talk 15:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Agree with Haeleth. --Neo-Jay 13:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Ditto above. The difference is hair-splitting. --Mashford 12:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

List of days in merge

The list of celebrated days in National holiday is logically organized by month. I think this is a more effective and accessible way of presenting this as a straight list, so I intend to preserve it in the forthcoming merge. With thi sin mind, I will be removing the present arrangement. Let me know if there are any concerns/objections. --Mashford 12:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I think, having read the above comments, I can now go with the merge. However, I'm not sure about listing by date. Why might people come to this page? Often it will be to find out when a particular country has its National Day/Holiday. Less frequently would someone want to know which countries have a National Day on a particular date. This latter information is readily available elsewhere, such as the On This Day listings. The former view is not that easily available. I would suggest maintaining the list by country - or perhaps there's some way we can accommodate both? Arcturus 15:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there any particular reason, Arcturus, why the list cannot be presented in both ways? Why choose only one method? I think there would be some uses for a list by date that would not be supported by On this Day. And there is some value in getting the one source of data right and presenting it in both formats, rather than expecting people to rely on different datasets depending on whether they are looking from an alpha or a chrono starting point. Deoxyribonucleic acid trip (talk) 10:06, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Duplication

Some countries, such as Yemen/Republic of Yemen are listed twice. --24.14.148.180 19:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Lebanon

The CIA Factbook and Lebanon page in Wiki list November 22nd as the Lebanese Independence Day, so I don't quite know where 24th November came from? I'm editing it. Macavity7 00:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Australia

Australia Day, 26th January, is in the list. This entry claims to list days which "mark the nationhood of a nation". Well, 26th of January doesn't do that. It commemorates the day the British First Fleet landed at Sydney Cove, and hence the creation of the British colony of New South Wales. Hardly the creation of a nation.

Some with sympathy for the earlier inhabitants have come to call it Invasion Day. HiLo48 (talk) 07:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

These sections should be kept seperate

My own opinion is that these secttions should be kept as they are because not totally realted. A national holiday is the date on which a whole country celebtrates and can last for 1 to 7 days. A national Day is the day on which the event takes place and only last one day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.113.173 (talk) 19:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization

"National day" is a descriptive term, not a proper name. It should be lowercased in the article title and throughout the body, unless someone can come up with a good reason not to.

--207.176.159.90 03:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's a good reason not to. If you lower-cased it to ordinary words, you'd have to put it in quotation marks everywhere.Eregli bob (talk) 14:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Weekday Observance Customs

I came to this article looking for a description of the rules countries use to observe holidays that fall on weekends (such as July 4, 2009; a saturday). Consider adding a section? --207.38.19.83 (talk) 23:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Niue

I think you may have the wrong day. Niue celebrates the birthday of their constitution and Niue Flag Raising Day is October 19. This is according to What's on in Niue, whereas there is nothing much happening in February. Also, the ICalShare calendar has their national day marked on October 19. James Galloway (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Fix the map

Belgian national day is not independence-related. --Rastko Pocesta (talk) 21:55, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Done. Alinor (talk) 11:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Neither is the Romanian national holiday independence-related. 93.174.161.83 (talk) 18:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The Irish National Holiday, St. Patrick's day, is a celebration of the anniversary of St. Patrick's death. It is not independence or politically related consequently. Perhaps a change in the map is appropriate. --87.33.59.137 (talk) 16:47, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

The same applies to Wales. Doesn't the map need a new category, perhaps "Other National Day" (not independence or revolution or unification-related)? Dbfirs 17:30, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Denmark

Can't say I know much of Danish customs, but what about Constitution Day (Denmark)? LukeSurl ^{t c} 22:57, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I live in Denmark. It is confusing. It was a National Day until 1975, everyone had a half day off to celebrate, by law. That law was however revoked, I don't know why exactly. The explanation usually goes like this: In the beginning the whole day was off, and the king gave a speech, there were carnival like events, and the day ended with a ball. However, after a few decades, politicians realized that they had huge gatherings of happy people, and increasingly made it into a political platform. Then came the recession, and industries pressurized government into making it half a day off. Meanwhile the use of it for politics increased, pushing back the old National Day celebrations. Especially by the Socialist party. So in 1975 the government decided that this was unfair, because the Socialist party already had May 1st as a holiday, and therefore revoked the whole thing. And although it is officially Constitution Day, the day is in fact popularly known as National Day ('Nationaldagen', very few say ’Grundlovsdagen'). Oddly, the law that says that all shops must close this day, is still in effect. All companies still give staff the half day off to celebrate, and in fact most now give the whole day off as they don't want to bother with half days. So in practice it is still a National Day and Holiday like before 1975, only not by law.--Dbjorck (talk) 06:03, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Never in my 37 years in Denmark have I heard June 5th referred to as "Nationaldag". If someone called it that I wouldn't have a clue that they were talking about Grundlovsdag. As far as I'm concerned we never had a national day. The fact that Grundlovsdag used to be a public holiday doesn't make it a national day.--Thathánka Íyotake (talk) 06:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

The above is mislaeding - it explains (or rather "interprets") the reasons for 5th of June not being a public holiday anymore, but regardless of that, the date has never been The National Day of Denmark. It is commonly known as "Grundlovsdag", not "Danmarks Nationaldag". The confusion only arises when somebody asks "what is the national day of Denmark?". Then The Constitution Day usually is the first that springs to mind. So you might argue that it is *a* national day, but it is not in any official respect *The* National Day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.183.47.162 (talk) 12:04, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The article specifically states that Denmark and the UK do not have "official" national days, so I don't think including special days is really misleading. Dbfirs 15:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Quebec

Should Quebec be included in this list as it is a province and not a nation unto itself? If so, should the US State of Texas (with Texas Independence Day) be included as well? --Strandist (talk) 04:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Quebec should be in pink like other entries which are not sovereign states! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.65.171.27 (talk) 14:59, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Fixed that one. Bagunceiro (talk) 16:24, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Can someone create a sortable list please?

Posting this after asking a question at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous. Is there anyone watching here who has the skills to turn the list of national days into a sortable list? My particular goal is a list of national days in date order. HiLo48 (talk) 02:57, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Done, as a collapsed, sortable table. The sorting on country/region can be used to check that this list matches the alphabetical list, and the sorting on date, to see how many have national days on the first of the month etc (pretty useless really). Perhaps I should have a hidden date column to re-sort on date in the year, but reloading the table achieves the same effect. Suggestions for improvement are welcomed. This is the first time I've ever created a Wiki table, so criticisms are also welcomed. The article needs checking and improving. I think the original format as an alphabetical list should be retained, since it is the format most useful to most readers, so I've just added the collapsed table at the end. Dbfirs 07:43, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

That's perfect. Thank you. HiLo48 (talk) 10:34, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks -- however, when you sort the table by date now, it's sorted alphabetically by date, not in date order. (1 August doesn't make sense as the first in the list). Please can you change it to sort by date in the year in proper date order? 203.217.31.167 (talk) 03:42, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, as I mentioned above, it loads already sorted by date, and if you re-sort, it does it alphabetically with all the 1sts of the months followed by all the 2nds (pretty useless). I could add a true date column, but sorting by that would just put the table back into the order it initially loads. Dbfirs 06:21, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Samoa

Samoa's independence day was Jan. 1, 1962, but that's not when its national day is. National day, as correctly stated in the list is June 1 (but it's not Independence Day from NZ, as was previously stated in the list). According to this source, the national holiday is in June to avoid holiday overload at Christmas time, while this source says that it's to avoid the January rainy season. So, it seems to be a unique case of a random date as the national holiday, but it's not Independence Day (as the anniversary of independence is in January.)--Canuckguy (talk) 22:10, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Original research?

Are there reliable secondary sources that use the term National Day in exactly this way? Wikipedia articles are not permitted to make up their own terminology. While it's reasonable to want to group these days together, I suspect that a list would be better than an article. To me the article appears to violate WP:OR and WP:NEO. --Trovatore (talk) 18:02, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the first section could be relegated to notes, with unreferenced material removed. All I've found so far is a list of African National Days [1], but the term (with Capital Letters) might be more widely used? If not, then perhaps it should be relegated to lower case as just a list of days celebrated by nations. Dbfirs 21:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Morocco

The main celebration seems to be on November 18th (Eid Al Istiqulal) (Independence Day), rather than "Throne Day" in March which is not listed as a national day on most websites. Does anyone know a reliable source? Dbfirs 19:22, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Italy

Walter J. Rotelmayer has twice removed 25 April from Italy's celebrations (along with references). I agree that their main national day is June 2nd, but isn't April 25th also a national celebration? We seem to allow more than one day for some nations, but if Italians do not consider April 25th to be a celebration of their nation then I'm happy for that date to remain deleted. Can anyone confirm the situation? It will take me a while to contact Italians of my acquaintance. Dbfirs 18:37, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I am Italian. As I told you in the last edit description, the only National Day in which the Italians celebrate the "Country" or the "Nation" is the Republic Day (The 2nd of June). April 25th is an important National Celebration in which the Italians celebrate the end of the WWII and the defeat of the Fascism in Italy. This last celebration is linked to an important event but it has nothing in common with the unity of the nation. For instance The World Factbook (CIA) considers the 2nd of June as the only National Holiday: CIA - The World Factbook

I removed further information because I thought they could be redundant.

I'm sorry for this misunderstanding, maybe I had to be more accurate at the beginning of the edit.

Greetings --Walter J. Rotelmayer (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

That's OK. If you remove a reference, it is always wise to replace it with a better one, then there can be no argument. The heading of this article is ambiguous. Some people interpret it as the one main celebration day (which I accept is June 2nd for Italy), and others read it as "Day of National Celebration" (which would include April 25th for Italy, as in my reference). We'll leave it at your interpretation. Dbfirs 07:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Table

The information in this article was duplicated (as it admitted) and the tabular form of it didn't sort correctly. I've removed the list form and modified the table to sort on date or nation. It still has issues, but at least only needs to be corrected in one place now. Bagunceiro (talk) 13:19, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I should have done when I created the table. People seemed to prefer the alphabetical list, so is it possible to give your table an initial alphabetically sorted format? Dbfirs 22:50, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, for sure - it just needs to be manually sorted that way for it to be the initial order (might in that case be logical to swap the first two columns around too?): "People" might like to do this if they prefer it that way ;-). But, of course, otherwise it only needs a click in the "nation" header to get it alphabetical. Bagunceiro (talk) 00:12, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I was hoping that there was some initial sort function that would achieve that result. I might have a go at the manual sort sometime if others think it's worthwhile matching the other table in the independence day article and restoring this article to an alphabetical list. The easiest way is probably to import into a text editor (as I did when I created the table) and rearrange in that before exporting back to a wiki-table. Dbfirs 17:43, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikitable isn´t the ideal format for sorting or for juggling but it´s not too bad if you have the facilities of vi. I think I agree that it is better like that. Bagunceiro (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I´ve added a highlight for the non-sovereign nations. Whether that´s the best way to do it I´m not sure - open to suggestions. Bagunceiro (talk) 14:20, 11 July 2014 (UTC)