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November 6

How many Wiki-ers does it take to change a light bulb?

O Hai, I are next 2 Ur Ceiling. If things get teh complixorcated, you might want ask a qualified Electrician about this.

I have this light fixture in my apartment, and the halogen bulb died, and I can't figure out for the LIFE of me how to change it.

The bulb is cased inside a central ring that swivels and lets you orient the light, but I can't figure out how to get the lightbulb out!

I'm at the point where I might yank the thing out of the ceiling.

I know its a long shot, but any suggestions?

http://www.etlin.com/product_specs.asp?pid=TMH-28-WH — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cacofonie (talk • contribs) 01:35, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Often the circular trim is spring-loaded so you can pull down the trim to get access to the lamp. Acroterion (talk) 01:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Just keep pulling, pushing, twisting and sliding each part of it until something works! You may need to use a reasonable amount of force. --Tango (talk) 01:44, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

...or even an unreasonable amount of force. StuRat (talk) 01:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

"The use of unnecessary force has been authorized in the pursuit and extraction of User:Cacofonie's halogen lightbulb..." 58

Assuming you have the MR16 halogen bulb in it, that doesn't screw in, it just plugs in directly to an outlet (like a nightlight). So, yea, just yank it out. Be sure to put your fingers on opposite sides, so you can pull it straight. If that doesn't work, wiggle it back and forth. StuRat (talk) 02:06, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

When installing a new halogen bulb, handlel it with a cloth or tissue to avoid getting oil on it from the fingers, since that shortens the life of some bulbs. Edison (talk) 04:47, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't the oil creat hotspots on the bulb? 99.43.78.36 (talk) 18:26, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Two. One to change the lightbulb, and the other to make a frivolous WP:AN/I report asking for an administrator to change the lightbulb back to the way it was before.

If it's one of those conical low voltage halogen lights, there is actually a tool that does in a flash what is almost impossible to do by hand. Kind of like pliers Resembling pliers only very vaguely, but with a doohickey on the end that compresses the spring-loaded clip. --Shirt58 (talk) 05:12, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I think this or this might be what I was thinking of. I discovered them after moving out of the house with these kind of lights. --Shirt58 (talk) 05:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

As the first response suggested -- do what you threatened to do. Yank the thing out of the ceiling. You'll find out pretty quickly if it really is spring loaded. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:14, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Ah, a spring-loaded ceiling, I never thought of that. Richard Avery (talk) 07:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Spring loaded light fixture. This is also an application for duct tape -- stick it to the cold bulb and unscrew. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:00, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Back in my parents place, in the old light sockets you have to push the bulb up before twisting it, have you tried that? 148.197.81.179 (talk) 20:40, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Does it have a retaining ring like this one ? that's the kind I'm most familiar with, you need a pair of pliers or something to get the ring out 1st, then the bulb just comes out. Vespine (talk) 05:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Be careful. Those things are hard to get out and even harder to get back in again, especially while you are trying not to drop the bulb. Astronaut (talk) 18:11, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

To answer the original question: According to [[1]] the answer is 190. That is the number of editors that have changed the Halogen lamp article. Roger (talk) 09:14, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I know this is a bit late, but the answer ended up being right: yank like crazy at the thing. The whole fixture is *supposed* to come out of the wall!

thanks!

Stock Exchanges and companies listing on it

Hello!

Could anyone explain me the concept and ideology behind a company getting listed on multiple stock exchanges within the same country? Besides this could anyone also explain me (or provide me with the source) the basic nuances and fundamentals of establishing and running a stock exchange?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vijaykumar abcd (talk • contribs) 19:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

To answer your second question, have you read our article stock market? If you want more details and "nuances" than are found there, you can find a number of books on the subject, such as this one, available through Google Books or at retailers like amazon.com. Textorus (talk) 21:12, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Pilates

I would like to know the name in English for the physical activity named "Pilates" in Spanish Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.192.108 (talk) 19:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Have you seen the Pilates article in the English Wikipedia. Because it was invented/developed by a gentleman called Joseph Pilates it has the same name. Richard Avery (talk) 19:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

online shopping

So, I have attempted to buy something on the internet, something I have been doing quite often recently, but this one time, apparently I cannot pay through the company website and was instead directed to another website, owned by some organisation called paypal, which required me to input my card details and thus process my order. Except, they refused to accept my card, which had been quite OK with everywhere else I had shopped. I checked that all the details were exactly right, and tried again, and still nothing. Then I moved to another website where I could get the same thing a couple of pounds more, and was once again redirected to the same place, with the same result. what is going on here, and how do I get around it? All I want to do is give these people money, and they just don't let me.

148.197.81.179 (talk) 20:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Apparently, Paypal imposes some restrictions on customers from various countries, so depending on where you live, that might be a cause. Nobody here at Wikipedia can say why your particular card is not accepted; perhaps you should go to the Paypal website and ask them directly. Textorus (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Paypal is a perfectly respectable service for handling online money transfers if that's what you're worried about. (Many merchants use PayPal to avoid the significant hassle of dealing with the credit card companies directly.) I can't say why PayPal doesn't like your credit card, though. Make sure your name & address appears exactly like it does on your billing statement, punctuation and everything. I've personally had problems with cards being rejected because I didn't put the comma in my street address.

If worst comes to worst PayPal does have a way to contact them, here. You could ask them. APL (talk) 21:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

If a website directs you to another web site then beware. Did the URL start with Https ? Go to an official Paypal site [2] and try joining up officially. See if it accepts your card. If it does then get on to your card's help desk an give them the details of the sites you visited in case you’ve been phished. This is but one example. [3]. If this is so - let Paypal know. --Aspro (talk) 21:11, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I meant of course Pharming.--Aspro (talk) 21:56, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Isn't that unnecessarily alarmist? It's standard operating procedure for a store to redirect you to PayPal for you to enter your payment details. That's how paypal works. APL (talk) 22:12, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

So, when the form asks me for my first name, last name and address, would that then have to be my name as it is on my card, that is my initials and last name, and then the address to which the card is registered, rather than where I want my order to be delivered? I worry that if I put my card's address in they will just deliver it there. Whereas, usually they ask for full name on the order form and then 'name as on card' when filling in card details, which doesn't fit into that same 'first name-last name' set of boxes. The original site has not asked me for any details at all, just directed me to this one form, so what do I do? 148.197.81.179 (talk) 21:53, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

What was these two sites so that we can have a look? Give us more data. If there're for old Barry Manilow records on eBay or somit, that's OK we're very b r o a d minded.--Aspro (talk) 21:59, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

You should at some point, either at the merchant's site or at Paypal's site, be given the opportunity to set a "Shipping Address" that's separate from your "Billing Address". The billing address must be the same as the address the credit card is registered to, or the card will not work. APL (talk) 22:12, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

This is what leads me to think it might be a Pharming scam! It doesn't sound like a normal form. --Aspro (talk) 22:21, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Sounds perfectly normal to me. (There are a couple different paypal forms, depending on whether the merchant is using them just for payment or for their "Paypal Checkout" service.)

If they're using the Paypal Checkout, He may simply have not gotten far enough into the process to see the "Use billing address for shipping address?" screen. I'm not going to go buy something just to check, but I don't think you'd get there if your credit card was rejected. 76.28.67.181 (talk) 23:30, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

If you register for PayPal seperately, you should be able to add multiple addresses, however they will have to be in the same country. Under profile, there is an add/edit street address option which allows you to add another personal address, and gift addresses. PayPal does not allow a gift or alternative address in another country, although you can ask for your registration country to be changed. This of course means if you legimately have a debit or credit card from two countries you need to have 2 accounts, except that's technically forbidden by PayPal (you're only supposed to have one personal account). As APL said, your debit or credit card in PayPal should be associated with a billing address the same as your debit or credit card billing address. I think how important it is to be exact varies, in NZ I believe it's far less important, amongst other things, some dumb websites demand stuff like State/Region in addition to City but likely almost no one in New Zealand has 'Region' in their billing address, with the supercity it isn't event relevant to Auckland any more.

I've never used PayPal without an account so I'm not sure if they actually provide the opportunity to give a shipping address different from the debit or credit card address when you don't have an account. However I'm resonably sure PayPal should be clear when you're about to pay (something like 'Pay Now' or 'Finish' or 'Complete order' I would guess) so if you're careful, you shouldn't accidentally pay with the wrong address. I can't test it since my credit card is associated with an account, but I can confirm the first screen for PayPal is only 1 address, and if your card is rejected you don't get to see any other page.

If you are stil worried you will accidentally make an order with the wrong address, it probably be simpler to just sign up for a PayPal account first as someone suggested earlier, add a debit or credit card then add the other address. Bear in mind it isn't uncommon websites will only accept your PayPal address. As APL has said, been directed to PayPal is a standard part of how PayPal operates so while you should make sure you're actually directed to PayPal, it isn't an indicator of fraud, and many sites don't ask for much before they direct you to PayPal particularly if you take advantage of some sort of 'express checkout' or choose not to create an account on the website. Some allow you to change an address after you've made payment but don't provide an opportunity to give an address beforehand. Some require you to contact them after you've made payment to change address. Such details should be mentioned somewhere in the websites help or FAQ.

Nil Einne (talk) 06:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

smoke alarm battery

I habitually test my smoke alarm batteries monthly. Is this as good a practice as replacing them semi-annually as is often recommended? --Halcatalyst (talk) 23:24, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I seem to remember an advert which said that you should check them monthly, and replace them at an interval I forget, probably yearly. I would say its a good idea yes, its certainly habit in my household. --Jac16888 ^Talk 23:30, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

My smoke alarm beeps once every few minutes if the batteries get low. Though I guess that means I'm depending on the low battery warning to not be broken... but my wife setting the thing off every few months tests it well enough for me.  :) Dismas|^(talk) 00:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The official advice fom the London Fire Brigade is:

Once a week: Test your smoke alarm each week using the test button.

Every six months: Open the case and gently vacuum the inside to remove dust from the sensor. If the smoke alarm doesn’t open, vacuum through the holes.

Once a year: Change the battery (unless it is a ten year alarm) or when you need to.

Replacement: Replace the battery in your smoke alarm if the low battery warning sounds (an intermittent bleep). It is also best to replace smoke alarms with completely new units after 10 years. Alansplodge (talk) 12:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Ingress of dust, say from sanding down paintwork, will also set off the intermittent alarm. A 'hoover' solves the problem. 85.211.229.139 (talk) 14:05, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

To me it's not very environmentally friendly to toss out batteries that still have plenty of life in them, so I'd either wait til it beeps, or at least reuse them elsewhere until they actually die. The 9-volt batteries can be used as backups for radio/alarm clocks, for example. If they go dead there, it's no biggie, you'll just have to reset the clock if you have a power failure. StuRat (talk) 04:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Unless you actually work for a living and have to get up in the morning or lose your job; in which case, better put new batteries in your alarm clock twice a year, not discarded ones. Textorus (talk) 15:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses. --Halcatalyst (talk) 16:33, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

November 7

Socks

Why don't socks come in a left and right pair like your shoes? Viriditas (talk) 00:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Some do. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:32, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't know why they'd need to since they stretch to conform to your foot. Dismas|^(talk) 00:49, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

For the same reason why they don't need to make lefthanded screwdrivers. --Jayron32 00:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Not only that, but socks have a habit of slithering away in the dark or magically disappearing from the dryer, so in a short time, you'd be left with a drawerful of right- or left-footed socks, and what good would that do? Textorus (talk) 03:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Obviously they became extinct due to evolutionary selection. They couldn't play footsie and beget little sockettes with the same efficiency as their hermaphrodite rivals. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Alas, mine are all asexual, it seems. They never reproduce, they just dwindle away. Textorus (talk) 05:08, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The same process of unnatural selection appears to apply to biros: sometime late at night, all the pens that actually work and were located near your phone (be it home, work or mobile) somehow mysteriously disappear... --Shirt58 (talk) 11:24, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

are these walking sticks dngerous to humans and dogs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.8.46.212 (talk) 03:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

PowerSox (Gold Toe Brands) makes the APF (Anatomical Performance Fit) line for competitive athletes, complete with left/right socks.[4] Looking on the Internet for reviews, it is claimed that the APF left/right fittings are more comfortable than any other sock on the market. Viriditas (talk) 03:54, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Tabi come in left/right pairs.--Shirt58 (talk) 04:08, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Socks for ships captains come with right sock in green and the left sock in red.85.211.229.139 (talk) 06:56, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes and only GBP 4.96 from this website (halfway down the page)[5]. Alansplodge (talk) 18:51, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

You may be interested to know that the concept of left and right shoes is only a relatively recent invention itself. According to our shoe article "Until around 1800, shoes were made without differentiation for the left or right foot." I didn't actually think it was quite that late, though I guess the rich people may have had them a bit earlier and it would have taken quite a while to filter down to the masses. Back in the day shoes were a relatively expensive item of apparel, and you can bet the left/right shoe thing was a real marketing gimmick at the time and you would have paid quite a premium for them when they first came out. I guess the left/right sock thing could still catch on. --jjron (talk) 15:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The article contains a certain amount of unreferenced bollocks. On the talk page, somebody has said that left/right footed shoes were common in Roman and mediaeval times - and provided citations that the main article lacks! (The part about the sewn-on sole appearing in the 17th century is 100 years too late, too - as turnshoe says, welted (outer-soled) shoes were a 16th century innovation.) The person says that undifferentiated shoes followed from welted shoes - but I don't know what would motivate this, and I'm dubious about whether they were ever really popular.  Card Zero  (talk) 17:54, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't even like socks with heels, as that requires more work to get them into the proper position. Tube socks also wear better, without getting holes on the big toe, ball of the foot, and heel. StuRat (talk) 04:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Holes are one of the reasons why I wear socks with a guarantee. I just had a number of pair replaced free of charge (though to ship them to the manufacturer was my cost). Sent holey socks out, got new socks back in less than a week! Dismas|^(talk) 04:57, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I love love love my KEEN left-right hiking socks. To my great surprise, it makes an enormous difference. It does, however, make sorting socks more annoying. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:04, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Hypothetical legal question

Before anyone makes the 'no legal advice' comment I'd like to say that I am not thinking of doing the following, the scenario is purely my imagination.

Does anyone know if the following actions would violate any laws. If my friend applies for a telecommute job and is told she has got the position. Little do the company know she actually already has a job an applied on my behalf. My friend continues to work for her previous employer but I (from my home PC) complete the work for her telecommute job. At the end of the month my friend receives salaries from both companies (and pays income tax on both) but after the deducted taxes transfers the salary of the telecommute job to my bank account. Thank you for any replies, I know this is pretty far fetched but I can't stop thinking about it due to the nature of MY job which is a telecommute jobs but never involves any interaction other than via computer which would theoretically make this scenario possible. Best, --91.49.56.249 (talk) 07:01, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

There would be tax complications, if nothing else. She'll pay taxes on both jobs (pushing her into a higher tax bracket) and then she'll pay you. At that point you'll probably need to also pay taxes on the money. There may be ways around this, but I think they would involve setting up as a business.

There would also be contract issues. Non-disclosure agreements come to mind as potential problems , but there may be other contract issues as well.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me if there were contract workers who over-promised and then tried to secretly sub-contract out to India. APL (talk) 07:39, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

That was originally what made me think of this. Many people in India do the same job and earn about a third of what us European workers would earn, if not less. Why would I have to pay tax a second time? Surely my friend would merely be transferring my a 'gift'?--91.49.56.249 (talk) 07:53, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

That's a pretty detailed speculation for someone who is "not thinking of doing this." But while I cannot give legal advice, it seems obvious that Uncle Sam would come after you for tax evasion (not only income tax, but also Social Security and Medicare taxes, which you would be liable for the full amount of, say 15% of wages, as an independent contractor) as well as tax fraud because the taxes are not being paid by you or in your name. Plus the company would surely fire your friend immediately for fraudulence and maybe even sue her for recovery of wages paid. And maybe several other legal penalties would apply to either or both of you, I don't know. And then you would both be out of a job and likely have great difficulty getting another one in that industry. Definitely a very bad idea all around. Honesty is the best policy, in the long run. Textorus (talk) 08:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

" fraudulence "?! Fifelfoo (talk) 08:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

A cross between flatulence and fraud - smells bad. Nah, perfectly cromulent. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:15, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

You'd need to check the specific laws where you live or better yet, ask a professional, but I'd think you'd find the definition of gift in basically every country when it comes to tax purposes, usually excludes someone paying you for work, and your friend is obviously doing this. (Think about it carefully, if someone could pay someone for work by giving them a 'gift' then presuming any gift tax is lower then the income tax, this is what everyone would be doing and no one would need to pay income tax.) As APL said there may be ways to limit the double taxation but it's likely this will be difficult to set up likely requiring your friend setting up a business and also the cooperation of the company paying your friend and you'd probably want to speak to an expert about how to go about it anyway (well some could do it themselves, but probably not anyone who has to ask on the RD if their friend can give them a 'gift' in exchange for work and avoid paying income tax). Of course, as has been said there's a fair chance there will be other legal complications. Nil Einne (talk) 18:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

If this were to be a prospect in real life, then you would definitely want to check with an attorney. The attorney could advise you whether you would need to speak to an attorney in another jurisdiction, depending on which court would have jurisdiction over your arrangement. However, if the employment contract, company policies, or other (e.g., nondisclosure) agreements did not forbid subcontracting at the employee's expense, then your friend who had the job could conceivably hire you as an assistant, deduct the cost of your services (perhaps equaling her pay for that job) from her income and then pay you after deducting income, payroll, or other taxes in your name as any other employer would do. Giving you the money as a "gift" in return for your doing all the work would almost certainly not fly in court if the IRS were to bill you for back taxes and you were to contest, but again, that would be a topic to discuss with an attorney. Marco polo (talk) 20:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Euro slot / Delta slot / (that hole at the top of products that hang on shelves in supermarkets)

If you Google-Image-Search 'euro slot' you'll see a picture of a hole that's ubiquitous on supermarket products -- and yet I can't find the Wikipedia article on it?
Same goes for a 'delta slot'.
49.180.19.119 (talk) 08:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Giles Calver (2004) What is packaging design? only mentions the euroslot twice, and in passing. Packaging engineering and design don't seem to publish reliable sources specifically discussing the euroslot. Deltaslot seems to have no scholarly attention in packaging design and engineering at all. The reason we don't have an article seems connected to the fact that there aren't reliable sources that discuss euroslot/deltaslot in sufficient depth to sustain an article. Fifelfoo (talk) 08:28, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking to buy a punch for the euro-hole and I'm not happy with the results when I search on eBay, so I was trying to find out other names for it -- such as a standard or something -- to find more options. Again, thanks for your previous input 49.186.61.122 (talk)

A little Googling suggests hang hole may be an appropriate term. --Bavi H (talk) 02:27, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Can the Police be served in a shop when on duty ?

My question is - can the police (someone in uniform that is) allowed to be served in a shop when they are on duty ? The reason for the question is that someone mentioned to me that English/British police are not allowed to go into shops to buy anything even if it's on their lunch break because of some old law or rule that goes back I think a hundred years or so that was passed to stop them from going into pubs and drinking. And the way that my friend was talking, that law/ rule (not sure what they said it was) not just covers the drinking bit but buying anything from any shop. One of the things that they mentioned was tha a shopkeeper was threatened with to be arrested because she said this to two uniformed police (that uniformed police cannot be served in a shop). She also said that she could get prosected if she did serve them. Is any of this right? 92.27.75.60 (talk) 12:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

In 2004 Tesco in Northallerton refused to sell alcohol to North Yorks Police Chief Constable Della Cannings until she took of her hat and epaulettes (which they decided made her off-duty) - see this story. That article says the law was due for repeal the following year (2005). I don't believe there's ever been a general prohibition against serving officers in uniform in general, just alcohol. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 12:24, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The relevant law appears to have been the Licensing Act 1964, section 178; it's an interesting note wrt CC Cannings, as it allows the exception given the "authority of a superior officer" - I don't know if a CC has, in the terms of the act, a superior officer (the HS is superior, but not an officer, I guess). That section was apparently repealed entirely by the Licensing Act 2003. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 12:32, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

(ec) The Licensing Act 1964 Section 178 forbids serving alcohol or refreshments to a police officer on duty in licensed premises. Perhaps it's the vagueness of 'refreshments' and 'licensed premises' that causes the confusion. Most supermarkets and corner shops have off-licenses and all serve 'refreshments'. Nanonic (talk) 12:36, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Also, a related article on Finlay's link Pc banned from buying snack from 2003. Nanonic (talk) 12:38, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, "refreshment" is an odd word. According to DCMS, in terms of the 2003 act, a "refreshment" is "the supply of hot food or hot drink to the public" (link). So he'd have been okay if the sausage roll was cold. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 12:41, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Not quite. The DCMS website is referring to the concept of "late night refreshment" under the 2003 Act - see Schedule 2 which defines the provision of "late night refreshment" as:

"(a) at any time between the hours of 11.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m., he supplies hot food or hot drink to members of the public, or a section of the public, on or from any premises, whether for consumption on or off the premises, or

"(b) at any time between those hours when members of the public, or a section of the public, are admitted to any premises, he supplies, or holds himself out as willing to supply, hot food or hot drink to any persons, or to persons of a particular description, on or from those premises, whether for consumption on or off the premises"

subject to exemptions. "Hot" food or beverage is further defined as food or drink which (or any part of it)

"(a) before it is supplied, is heated on the premises or elsewhere for the purpose of enabling it to be consumed at a temperature above the ambient air temperature and, at the time of supply, is above that temperature, or

"(b) after it is supplied, may be heated on the premises for the purpose of enabling it to be consumed at a temperature above the ambient air temperature."

In any case, I think it was established earlier that the offending proivision was under the old Act, and it seems pretty dangerous to me to try to apply the definition for a different term under the 2003 Act to a concept under the 1964 Act.

"Refreshments" doesn't seem to be defined under the 1964 Act, but reading in context there doesn't seem to be anything contradicting the natural and ordinary meaning of the word. A cold sausage roll would not, it seems to me, fit within this usual meaning. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:38, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I think the"The legislation is due to change anyway this year." line is telling. Presumably the 2003 Act narrowed refreshment in some sense from the regular meaning, which I would take to include sausage rolls. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 14:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

No, the 2003 Act completely repeals the 1964 act (p154 of the PDF of the 2003 act). It seems "refreshment" is a term in common law that we're just magically supposed to know what it means (when evidently it's not obvious at all). It's been in related laws since at least the Licensing Act 1872 (which talks about "refreshment houses" without adequately defining one). The Street Offences Act 1959 does help, a bit, defining such houses as "houses, rooms, shops or buildings kept open for public refreshment, resort and entertainment between ten o'clock at night and five o'clock on the following morning, not being licensed for the sale of beer, cider, wine or spirits". So clearly it's not limited to alcoholic beverages only, but some (but presumably not all) foodstuffs. I expect the enumeration of what exactly constitutes a "refreshment" is enumerated only in countless otherwise trivial rulings about the sale of pizzas or pies or packets of crisps. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:24, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

But the thing that we are arguing non stop about is if it's just alcohol & licenced premises that this is about or if it's any product from any store, shop etc 92.27.75.60 (talk) 14:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we're arguing about much, if anything. All the stuff everyone has found above shows:

• There was a law.
• It covered alcohol, and hot sausage rolls. It's not very clear what else it covered, but no-one has found a case, or a law, where it covered anything that wasn't food or drink. It may, or may not, have covered cold pies and cans of Tizer.
• It applied to on duty officers, and it didn't take much uniform tweaking to render an officer off duty.
• I think it's safe to infer from the poverty of news reports that actual prosecutions of merchants for furnishing an on-duty officer with a hot macaroni pie was rare or unknown.
• The law has been repealed (at least in England & Wales)

-- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 15:13, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

See Macaroni pie. Strange north-of-the-border delicacy, apparently. Never heard of it before..... Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Well in Australia they can certainly be served in regular shops, and many Aust laws are obviously based on English antecedents. In fact it used to common for food outlets (Fish & Chip shops, McDonalds, etc) to give uniformed on-duty police free food (a way to encourage their patronage and presence, and, ipso facto, discourage criminals), though I seem to remember hearing that does not happen so often now due to increased scrutiny over corruption, kickbacks, etc. --jjron (talk) 15:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, when I said WE were arguing I meant my friends & I who have been arguing about things like this for ages.92.27.75.60 (talk) 13:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

(Commodore) brand rebooting - How many times...

Preamble - I've been a Commodore brand owner/user in my youth. Vic 20 then the Commodore 64... and then at the pinnacle of my Commodore 'career' I was owned an Amiga 600 to which I bought a then super expensive 2'5" internal IDE HD with 200 MB of storeage space.

This last personal Commodore epoch was from around 1992 or so to Playstation time. In the time since I've read multiple times in the media's that the Commodore brand was somehow being used for a new computer thing - latest a a bit 'strange' launch of a PC packed into the C-64 breadbox form factor.

So...here it is - apparently somebody got some right's that they can assert (trademark or whatever) legally in a business environment that still for said somebody makes sense to monetize with something (Not really Commodore) that in my mind is a bit removed from the original brand-idea.

I would guess exercising your trademark right would need tangible products to be available in the market - or maybe the 'licensee' / trademark holder can just once every few years announce some product that was related to the original product group and still have the trademark be 'in effect' - even without having the product to be commercially available....

read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_International for background.

Question is - Commodore as an example of an 'undead' brand - Is there any other recognized examples of this - Some (well-known-then-but-now-obscure) brand that just keeps being kept alive.

85.81.121.107 (talk) 17:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Pan-Am airlines has been resurected about half a dozen times in different contexts. The story behind the Atari brand is so convoluted you need an advanced degree in information management just to be able to keep track of it all. Eagle Snacks has been passed around a few times as well. Not exactly the same, but AT&T is not the AT&T you remember from the Ma Bell days, the modern AT&T is a rebranded version of the Southwestern Bell Corporation (SBC). Digital Equipment Corporation, once a major player in the computer industry in the 1980s, is now a bank. See Digital Federal Credit Union. Similar to the AT&T situation, when First Union Bank acquired Wachovia Bank, they dropped their own name and took Wachovia's name instead; this has very recently become moot as Wachovia/First Union was acquired by Wells Fargo, and all remaining Wachovia branches have been rebranded "Wells Fargo". --Jayron32 18:05, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

FYI, Norwest actually acquired Wells Fargo, and as with the First Union / Wachovia situation, they went with the more interesting brand. These mergers can take awhile, With Wells Fargo, it was done in stages. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I see what you did there.  :) The Mark of the Beast (talk) 07:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

<groan>. Stages. I totally didn't get that until just now. How punny. --Jayron32 07:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Common in car brands, as badge engineering - one company buys another, keeps its brands (just the badges), but throws out its designs.  Card Zero  (talk) 18:09, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Nice - Great examples - I knew Atari, DEC, Pan-Am and Wells Fargo rang a bell as well. I was a little biased towards thinking about tech company brands - the badge engineering link made me think about companies that sells electronic equipment with little to no modification to their products except for maybe a 'brand' logo visible as. (Chinese robot vacuum cleaners comes to mind - I bought a for me not known brand two years ago and 1½ year later bought virtually the same cleaner but with a Melissa brand stamp.)

It's all bout their money it seems: Brand_equity - but it still baffles me that some 'undead' brands keeps getting funding for a relaunch of whatever the rightholders can 'sell'.

Seems like 'dead' brands who have not been ultimately tarnished get's some vanity points in the investment world, thus equals money flows anew. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.81.121.107 (talk) 19:07, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The issue is, there usually is no such thing as 'negative attention'. There is attention, and there is a lack of attention. There is nothing negative, from a marketing point of view, of a brand whose name is known. Changing people's opinion of the positive/negative aspects of a brand is probably easier than just getting them to recognize the brand as existing in the first place. With legacy brands, people are already aware of them. --Jayron32 19:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

There might be an exception for the Edsel. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Another computer company: Acorn Computers (2006) --Colapeninsula (talk) 23:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

For length of time before resurrection, I don't know if any can beat Spanish car brand Izaro, a short-lived company in the 20s, recently resurrected as a brand for electric cars.[6]. MG Cars is another automobile example: after a long, mostly British ownership, nearly dying in the mid 70s, limping on (latterly as rebadged Rovers) until defunct in 2005, and now resurrected by Chinese carmakers SAIC (who also own less celebrated British car brand Austin-Healey but haven't yet resuscitated it). --Colapeninsula (talk) 23:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Centronics went from casino industry products to printers to cookware. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 23:45, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

See this article about reviving dead brands like Salon Selectives and Brim coffee. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

November 8

Window?

In psychology, there is a term called 'someone's window' where it shows that there are four windows of your self, one that you know and no one else knows, one that you know and eveyone else know, one that you dont know but eceryone else knows, and one that you dont know and no one knows.what is that called? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.112.82.1 (talk) 00:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I googled [psychology 4 windows], and it brought up the wikipedia article Johari window. It doesn't come out and say where the term came from, presumably because it's pretty obvious that it's from the names of its creators: Joseph Luft and Harry Ingham. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Urk. Looie496 (talk) 03:42, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Owning a gun in New York State

Are there legal methods for an alien working in the state of New York on a work-visa to legally own a rifle/shotgun? Acceptable (talk) 02:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

This page may be of some use. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives says No . . . but maybe. (For extra-terrestrial aliens, it would depend on their rights under treaty with the United Nations, probably.) Textorus (talk) 13:27, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

A Thank YOU Note

I don't have any Q. Thank you.

This is in regards to "Ode To Joy" English Lyrics/Hymnal I just want to let Mr. Jimmy Wales, thank you for posting Ode To Joy Hymnal version. I am learning how to play Cello to Worship and You Tube doesn't have the English Version but Mr. Wales was kind enough to POST this. Now I can keep on practising the same notes w/ Lyrics... I hope I can play this in one of the USO functions this Christmas Day for our Wounded Warriors.

Mr. Wales, May God Bless you and Keep you and your family. Shalom!

Ms. Memosa NC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.191.238.133 (talk) 03:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are written by thousands of volunteers, very rarely by Mr. Wales himself. But we're glad you found Wikipedia helpful, and I've copied this note to his talk page, where he will see it. Textorus (talk) 13:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

What, you mean Jimbo hasn't written all of the about 3.7 million articles on the English Wikipedia by himself? Now my whole image of Wikipedia is ruined! =) JIP | Talk 15:42, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

His fame exceeds his abilities, I'm afraid. Textorus (talk) 16:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

BTW are you referring to Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee? Nil Einne (talk) 15:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we should have a Wikipedia version Jimbo, Jimbo We Adore Thee... Lemon martini (talk) 23:08, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

LOL Lemon. Textorus (talk) 03:08, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you need a passport for air travel between the Continental U.S. and Hawaii?

My understanding is that even though you'll fly over international waters, the flight is still domestic and you don't need a passport. Is that correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.79.58 (talk) 12:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

You don't need a passport in such circumstances. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:47, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Not if you are a U.S. citizen, says the Customs office. Textorus (talk) 13:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Even if you are not a U.S. citizen, you will not be asked to show a passport on arrival after a flight between Hawaii and the U.S. mainland, because such a flight is a domestic flight. However, you do need official identification to board a plane for any flight. Airlines typically accept U.S. driver's licenses and state identification cards from U.S. residents as identification for boarding. However, you should check the airline's policy on identification if you are not a U.S. resident. It is possible that airlines accept only passports as identification for non-U.S. residents. Marco polo (talk) 15:42, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

That last sentence certainly describes my experience as an Australian travelling within the US. It's not really a problem, as one would be daft to not be carrying one's passport just about all the time when in any foreign country. HiLo48 (talk) 23:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, I certainly didn't carry mine all the time when I lived in Canada! But of course I was actually living there, had a Canadian driver license and everything. --Trovatore (talk) 23:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Arrested for drink driving when not driving

My questionis, can someone be arrested for drink driving when they are not in the drivers seat of the vehicle ie sitting in the passengers seat or even lying passed out in the back of the car & the vehicle is not moving ie the engine is off ? I ask because this happened to my friend who was asleep in the back of his car & got arrested because he had the keys on him & therefore "in control" or "in charge of the vehicle" (I foeget exactly what they said), acording to the police that arrested him. 80.254.146.140 (talk) 13:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Might depend on the laws of your particular state/province/country, but in the U.S. - yes, it can happen. Textorus (talk) 13:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

QED, you can be arrested. The IP geolocates to the UK, in which case the statute law is the Road Traffic Act 1988 s.4(2) or s.5(1)(6) - this page provides further details. Your friend might be able to talk his way out of it at the court, but it seems to law leans towards the assumption that if you are in the car with the keys whilst drunk, then you're fair game. The arrest is for being in charge of the vehicle, not for driving the vehicle. The intent seems to be to convey the message "if you are drunk, stay away from the car". --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. Drink driving (United Kingdom) says "It is a separate offence to be in charge of a vehicle while over the prescribed limit, even without driving or attempting to drive it ... A person may be deemed to be responsible for a vehicle if they are in possession of the key; the onus is then on the suspect to prove that they had no intention of driving. The car does not have to be in motion and an offender does not have to sit at the wheel." Gandalf61 (talk) 13:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

(Multiple ECs)IANAL, but I am a driver and a drinker - though not concurrently! - in the UK, and can confirm that here also, if one is in a vehicle and in possession of the keys, one is legally "in charge of the vehicle" and open to being arrested and charged for being drunk while in control of the vehicle, as mentioned in our Drink driving (United Kingdom) article (see the second bulleted point in Section 1: Offenses), and subsequent text, which mentions that the onus is on the arrestee to prove that he/she was not intending to drive while drunk, clearly not an easy thing to do.

The nearest US-equivalent article section Drunk driving law by country: United States does not go into "in charge" laws, perhaps because of detail variations between States. {The poster formerly known as 87.81230.195} 90.193.78.2 (talk) 14:03, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that the defence is to prove that there was "no likelihood" of driving, not no intention, so you'd have to prove not only that you didn't intend to drive but that there was no likelihood you'd change your mind. In addition, there has to be no likelihood not just at the time you're stopped but until you would have dropped below the limit, so if you're sleeping off a drinking spree you'd have to show that when you woke up in the morning and drove home you wouldn't still be over the limit. That can often prove tricky. Proteus (Talk) 17:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Seems like a terribly bad-faith act to arrest someone who's trying to sleep off their intoxication. I mean, a fella has the right to attempt to drive home, think better of it, and retire to the side of the road, does he not? If his attempt is so badly thought out that he ends up hurting someone it's a different matter of course. Playing Devil's advocate here -- I am not in the habit of doing it myself. Vranak (talk) 15:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

A getout described to me, is to hide the keys somewhere outside the car BEFORE you go to sleep (under the wheel arch was suggested). Apparently, you are not "in control of the vehicle" if you don't have the keys. Not something I'm going to try any time soon. Alansplodge (talk) 16:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

As long as you aren't so drunk you can't remember where you put them the next morning! Though chances are, the cops would just pick another reason to haul you in, like "drunk and disorderly." Textorus (talk) 16:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

In response to Vranak, personally I'm glad that AGF does not apply to drunk car owners in the UK. If you have your keys with you, you are capable of waking up, driving drunk, and causing death and serious injury to others as well as yourself. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, I don't see why someone should have the 'right' Vranak has prescribed above. Don't drink drive period. Drink driving until you realise you're too drunk to drive should not be a 'right'. One of the reasons for drunk drivings laws is precisely because someone could be hurt by the drunk driver, the fact is hasn't happened yet (if it really hasn't) doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. Obviously if the drivers realises his mistake while driving and stops, as in the case Vranak outlined, this is better then the drive who didn't stop, but this doesn't excuse his driving before hand!

Further, it's almost impossible to distinguish between a driver who makes a concious decision not to drive but instead sleep it off because they are too drunk, and a driver who just fell asleep because they were so drunk, and may therefore wake up and drive while still drunk. Then there are those who only stopped and pretended to sleep because they heard police sirens (or whatever). Furthermore, even if the driver was intending to sleep it off, as others have said, it's difficult to be sure they aren't going to be still too drunk to drive when they wake up (and if they drove in the first place, one would be reluctant to trust their judgement on their level of intoxication).

Nil Einne (talk) 18:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

You make some good points, and I would add one further: if you're in the position where this is a serious dilemma perhaps your love of beer has gone a bit too far, and getting scared straight by a police citation might not be such a bad idea. Vranak (talk) 12:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

That won't work, I'm afraid - you can still be in charge without having the keys. (And legally you'd probably be held still to be in possession of the keys anyway - they don't have to be in your pocket for you to be in possession of them.) Proteus (Talk) 17:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I wonder how to prove the intent to not drive. Perhaps what's needed is a box to put the keys in, with a fiendishly complicated sort of combination lock which incorporates a sobriety test.  Card Zero  (talk) 19:52, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I once met the son of the sheriff of a rural Utah county who told me his dad once arrested someone for attempted DUI. If I remember correctly, a sober guy was driving and his alcohol-influenced friend was in the passenger seat. They came to a hill. Because of the weather or something wrong with the vehicle, the driver couldn't get it up the hill. So the other guy says, "Let me try." He also fails to get the car to move when a cop shows up. The cop realizes the guy trying to drive the car is drunk, but can't get him for DUI because the car didn't actually go anywhere. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

A prosecutor in Illinois told me about convicting a man of drunk driving for sitting in a car, while it was parked, waiting for the booze to wear off before he drove home. I suggested that the prosecution was contrary to the public interest, since it encouraged the man to drive home drunk rather than sitting in the car and getting caught being "drunk while in a car," and that if he told a jury that he was waiting to sober up before he drove home, Jury nullification was a very real possibility. Edison (talk) 05:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Am I being dense, or have a lot of posters just ignored the prohibition on giving legal advice? --ColinFine (talk) 23:57, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I think we've just about stayed within acceptable limits. The OP was not explicitly asking for advice on how to proceed in a pending or ongoing case, but rather - prompted by a past instance - was asking whether a particular law really existed, a factual rather than an advisory point. Further discussion and references clarified the general scope of the law(s) involved - which is useful to know - and the advisibility of its exercise by the Authorities, but again did not offer advice about a particular actual case. Contrary opinions welcome, of course. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.161 (talk) 15:13, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

• Many jurisdictions have, or have had in the past, drink driving laws which literally make it illegal to "be in control of a vehicle" while intoxicated. Courts have repeatedly found that a person behind the wheel of a motor vehicle should be taken to be "in control" of it even if the engine is not engaged and the vehicle is not moving. You may likewise be "in control" of a vehicle if you are pushing it after an engine failure or even if you are behind the wheel while the vehicle is under tow. The Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) in your jurisdiction will be able to give you specific advice about the road laws that apply to you. - DustFormsWords (talk) 05:24, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

This picture can't be right...

Look out below!!!!

So, maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but are the cars on the right side of this freeway in India about to drive off of a sheer cliff face? That can't be what I am seeing. Can someone familiar with the roads in India tell me that this isn't what am I looking at? --Jayron32 19:23, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

All I see is a carriageway disappearing into a cylindrical tunnel with a square face. I can't make out the cliff face you refer to. Nanonic (talk) 19:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

(ec) The square thing with the red border is some sort of placard or sign attached to the mountain, I think. It's way higher than the cars, which drive under it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems as though Jack is correct. The presence of the guardrail that gets cut off by the sign helps to confirm it. TheGrimme (talk) 19:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Our article about the Mumbai Pune Expressway does mention that there are five tunnels. You might want to get a refill for your Occam's Trac III, Jayron. --LarryMac | Talk 19:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Excellent - it's a real-life illusion along the lines of the necker cube or the blivet.  Card Zero  (talk) 19:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

It does look to me too like they're about to drive off a cliff face. But I think that if we assume that the square red thingy is actually higher than the cars, not in level with them, then it's the top of a tunnel, which is obstructing the view of the road below it. This is apparently an inherent problem with two-dimensional images. Were we to travel there in person and see the road with our own eyes, we would know better. We humans have two eyes which give slightly different input to the brain, and the brain is clever enough to decide distances based on the differences. But it doesn't work that way if both eyes see a two-dimensional image instead of the real thing. JIP | Talk 19:58, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

That is an excellent optical illusion. To me, it looks for all the world like that red line is painted on the roadway and there's a drop right beyond it. APL (talk) 21:20, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

This illusion is vaguely similar to the way they faked the apparent break in the highway in a critical scene in Speed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The other thing I notice is that nearly half of the cars are straddling the white lines. I think maybe I'm not going to drive there. Looie496 (talk) 22:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

At least they're driving on the correct side of the road. ;-) Although given the white line straddling, that may become doubtful without a centre barrier. HiLo48 (talk) 23:03, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

You may have a point, I didnt see the illusion I just assumed it was a tunnel but I drive on the left, perhaps it is seen more by people who drive on the right where the brain is more confused. I also saw the line stradling as cars moving out to overtake something that is out of view in the tunnel! MilborneOne (talk) 23:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

"Drive on the right where the brain is more confused." Well, most of the world is right-handed, so driving on the right-hand side seems natural. And according to Right- and left-hand traffic, 2/3 of the world drives on the right-hand side. The minority who drive on the left seem to be mostly Britain and part of its empire. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I've never considered a connection between handedness and which side of the road one should drive on. I thought the historical reasons were somewhat different. HiLo48 (talk) 23:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

(ec)The connection is real, but Baseball Bugs misses it - because right handedness is more common, driving on the left is the default (known to have been the case as far back as Rome) - that means that oncoming traffic approaches you on the right for handshakes or swordplay. Later changes were being politically POINTY ;) --Saalstin (talk) 23:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

In the UK, when walking along a sidewalk or hallway, do people bear right or left? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Whereever there's space? :) But if it's just me and it's empty I'll veer left. Otherwise, since I'm tall and other people walk slow, I dart whichever way's necessary to make progress. --Saalstin (talk) 00:44, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Bugs, I think MilborneOne meant "where the brain is more confused ... by this image.". His theory being that since the image already looks weird to us, we're less likely to recognize the true interpretation of the image. APL (talk) 23:46, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks APL perhaps I was not clear the intent was that driver who dont drive on the left would be confused by the image so the brain was already confused by the image. I wondered if other lefty drivers didnt have a problem with the image. MilborneOne (talk) 19:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Driving in India is a whole 'nother experience, Looie. Rather frightening much of the time, and utterly intriguing the rest of the time. That people can engage in such insane national behaviour and yet seem to have so few accidents (not that I've checked the official stats) is amazing. If anything, it's even more terror-inducing in Sri Lanka. Maybe we in the West can learn something from them. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 23:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

As you can see in List of countries by traffic-related death rate, both India and Sri Lanka have higher road fatality rates than most Western countries. Of course, it is hard to say how much of this is down to driving skill as opposed to road layouts, the number of vehicles, their state of repair, etc. 130.88.73.65 (talk) 10:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Here's a highway-level view of the tunnel entrance, this being the Khandala tunnel.[7] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

If you look closely you will see a black cat licking a potato.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 23:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The full resolution [8] doesn't give an illusion to me. commons:Category:Khandala and commons:Category:Mumbai Pune expressway have more images clearly showing a tunnel. However, it must be the Adoshi Tunnel (entrance view) as [9] says, and not the Khandala Tunnel in the link [10] by Baseball Bugs. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

So if it is the Adoshi tunnel the shot is taken from the air. Right? There seems to be no obvious veiwing point to suggest a land based shot. Richard Avery (talk) 08:23, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Then is the photo at Mumbai Pune Expressway#Tunnels mislabeled? Or did I misunderstand it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Mumbai Pune Expressway#Tunnels says the Adoshi tunnel is the only one with a single tube and the other direction alongside the tube. File:Khandala-4.JPG shows the image is probably taken from a hill blocked from the entrance view. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:08, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Looie496's observation "that nearly half of the cars are straddling the white lines", careful inspection suggests to me that all the vehicles doing so are probably in the process of changing lanes in order to overtake a slower-moving vehicle, or returning to an inside lane after having overtaken. The latter is fairly obvious with the most distant lorry on the left carriageway heading away from the camera, and the nearest on the right, and it seems likely that there is a vehicle (perhaps a centre-lane hogger) about to be overtaken by three cars in the right-hand carriageway, which is itself already obscured by the tunnel face and mountain. So, no call for any slurs against Indian driving abilities :-) . {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.190 (talk) 21:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Note that the lorry that's coming towards us that appears to be in between two lanes (I think the one you referred to as nearest on the right) probably had no choice but to go to the centre lane to get past the lorry that seems to be stopped (it looks a lot like there's a person next to it) behind it so is likely doing the proper thing by returning to the outer lane. Also the stopped lorry likely partially contributes to the confusing mix of the traffic on that side of the road (if you look there's actually no vehicle on the outer lane other then the stopped lorry), i.e. those in the outer lane had to move to the centre lane so those in the centre lane may have moved towards the inner lane, and this could also be part of the reason for a 'centre-lane hogger' (may simply be a vehicle which perhaps took a little too long to return to the outer lane) or it could be the 3 cars are in fact just going back to becoming centre lane hoggers, or perhaps even going back to the outer lane after having to move to the inner lane to get past a vehicle which was in the centre lane because of the stopped lorry. Nil Einne (talk) 20:04, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what's going on in the left side mind you. There seems to be a person beside the road (the closest thing to the camera on the road on that side). Is the lorry in front of the person also stopped or is there some other reason for this person? There's a car in front of it which seems to have red patches, the left side could simply be the door is red but I don't get why the right side is red unless the door is open (or more likely from the picture, in the process of being opened or closed) or is it just some sort of weird camera artifact. In front of the car with red patches, is there another person next to the car (that's besides the large lorry, possibly some kind of trailer) or is it simply an artifact of the shoulder barrier and camera? In any case, I would say if anything the number of people on the highway in this small stretch (seems likely at least 2 and possibly 3) is more concerning then the 'straddling the white lines' Nil Einne (talk) 20:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

West Houston Airport

Does anyone know if any airlines have ever serviced West Houston Airport ? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

If you include charters, then yes, there is a picture on the airport web site showing an ad for charter service. If you want scheduled airlines, that would be improbable. The 3950 foot runway is too short for anything except small turboprops. --Itinerant1 (talk) 00:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I meant scheduled airlines - There are a few turboprop airlines out there - For instance I know Sugar Land Airport got a 19 seater airline WhisperToMe (talk) 06:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, back in the early '80s...there was an airline that serviced West Houston Airport and Dallas Love Field. The aircraft was a twin engine turboprop deHavailland Dash 7. The aircraft's STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) abilities allowed the operations from a 4000ft runway. I think the aircraft handled up to 45 people.

November 9

How to add a map that shows where a species of spider is found

I wish to add to Portia labiata a map that shows where this species is found. The range is: Sri Lanka, India, Burma (Myanmar), Malaysia, Singapore, Java, Sumatra and the Philippines.

I know there is an Open Source program, but using this needs using the UNIX UI, which IMO requires using a text based command interface. I have a disability that makes it difficult to type accurately (I use Google at lot to check my typing of normal text).

Are there other ways to created such a map, with the relevant countries hight lit (all with same colour) and with tool tips to let readers show the names of the relevant countries as the user clicks? File:The Philippines and ASEAN (orthographic projection).svg gives an example for one country.

The output should show only the Old World, as Portia labiata is not found in the Americas. --Philcha (talk) 02:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Maybe I have misunderstood, but that image you linked to doesn't seem to have tooltips as you describe. Are you sure that simply highlighting the countries is appropriate - surely the range of the spider doesn't exactly follow national borders? Although I suppose more detailed information about the range might not be available in this case. Perhaps you could find some similar images and ask the users that created them what software they used? Also, it might help if you tell us what open source software you are talking about (if you know), as somebody might know of an alternative with a more suitable interface. 130.88.73.65 (talk) 10:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

You might want to check this thread: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Trains#ShareMap_as_a_tool_to_create_railway_maps which talks about Sharemap ... on the face of it, it would seem to be able to create the map you're after, which could then be added to the article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Please help in two questions

Witness

I don't know where to ask this so I just ask here, because I think this place maybe the best for it. I know 4 people who have witnessed a historical event in 1989 (I don't want to say which, since addressing the exact event is not important for the answers). These people describes the reactions of the participants differently than it is acknowledged mainstream (this is important, because if this will come to light, then the entire event would be altered). My question is, that how could I represent their opinion somewhere, from where it could be cited as a reliable source here. Because I know it is just nonsense if I ask them and write down their memories about the event and post it here.

Thanks for any answers.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mogzyx (talk • contribs)

• Find a reporter for a respected newspaper, or a writer for a respected magazine, and pitch to them an article which is a retrospective on the famous event, with the newsworthy aspect that several actual witnesses remember it differently from the "official " history. Then get them to write the article and get it published. You might start by interviewing your witnesses and getting them to sign documents (affidavits) with the contrarian version. Maybe the official version was that the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake caused everyone in the US to cry, but a group in a bar laughed themselves silly when a televised World Series baseball game was interrupted, since their team had been eliminated from the series earlier. There might be some publication which would like to put that fact and the recollections of the persons involved in a "sidebar" when they memorialize the 25th anniversary in 2014. Then look at magazines which might publish it. If it were in the US, then the New York Times, the Atlantic Monthly, or Rolling Stone might be target publications. Find reporters who have covered similar stories, and make an appointment to present your documents to them. Most reporters and their editors love a "scoop," though "aberrant reactions" is pretty mild as scoops go. Perhaps you could find some academic writer working on a book chapter which covers the event, and your documents could be included there as narratives. Edison (talk) 04:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

But beware that other editors may still oppose mention or significant mention per WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE, and if you were involved in getting the new theory published then you have a Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:57, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

• • Thanks for your answer! Though it is not my interest to have these published, but the greater good (aka. I wouldn't receive any kind of gain). Probably it would end under the controversy section. But the important thing is that the part I am talking about in the event, was officially covered only from one person's point of view, the commander of the mentioned 4 people, you know at that time it was forbidden for these men to talk about this.--Mogzyx (talk) 07:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Worry less about what Wikipedia would do with it. If you want to document it, document it. Put it up somewhere. If it is something of interest and value, people will eventually notice it. If it gets respectable enough, it could end up on Wikipedia. But Wikipedia should be the last possible stage in your thinking about this — Wikipedia is not a place for new theories, it's a place for theories that are already out there. A theory doesn't start on Wikipedia, it ends there. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that eyewitnesses, even when absolutely certain about what they believe they saw, can be dead wrong. See eyewitness identification. Textorus (talk) 03:06, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Finding a building

Second question. I have found a picture of a building here, but I was unable to track it down, even the author wasn't sure about it.

Here is what he said: "I snapped this from the tour bus as we drove by and have no other info. I think it is the ugliest pile I have ever seen. This was on the Bund side (not Pudong), probably a couple of miles from the Bund and generally on the south side of the city." I am not sure what is the Bund side or the Bund, and the map of the city was a bit confusing to me.

If anyone know anything about the exact location or the name if the building I would highly appreciate it.--Mogzyx (talk) 03:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't know the answer, but for the sake of clarification, the city is Shanghai, and Pudong and the Bund are districts that face each other on opposite sides of the Huangpa river. Looie496 (talk) 04:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

• I already searched the Bund on the map of Shanghai using satellite image, but I though it was the wrong place, because I haven't found it. Any more help would be appreciated from anyone. --Mogzyx (talk) 07:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Going by this photo, [11], your building seems to be on the left side. I think the short white building in the center front is the Shanghai Grand Theatre, and the taller building with dual-points farther back is Tomorrow Square, no? So, somewhere in that vicinity I think. That's as close as I could get. It doesn't appear to be a major landmark. Note that online mapping apps, including Google Maps, ACME Mapper, Bing, and everything else I've checked, show aerial imagery ("satellite") offset from normal "map" view by nearly a kilometer. I'm pretty sure the "map" view is the correct one, coordinate-wise. Many Wikipedia pages for places in China show coordinates clearly based on the offset satellite imagery. Unless I'm mistaken, these coordinates are off by about a km. The Shanghai Grand Theatre is an example--click its coordinate and view "satellite" (and zoom in) to see it pegged on the building. But switch to "map view" to find the pointer west of the actual place, right on a highway. Pfly (talk) 12:08, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Your picture is a collage. This is what the theater area looks like in real life. The pyramidal building is not really in that area. --Itinerant1 (talk) 20:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Doh! Shows what I know about Shanghai (almost nothing). But I should have been able to tell it was a collage--obvious now that you mentioned it. Pfly (talk) 06:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Ha ha. It fooled me too, I spent something like 10 min. looking at photos on Google maps and growing increasingly confused. It was only after seeing the photo above (dated 2010) that I saw the light.--Itinerant1 (talk) 07:15, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

• Isn't the top of that building where Gozer the Gozerian lives? --Jayron32 19:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems to be the brightly lit building right of centre in File:Shanghaiviewpic1.jpg this image from our Pudong article. Nanonic (talk) 20:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC) No it's not.. sorry. Nanonic (talk) 20:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

AHA! Found it. It's the World Trade Tower, google for "World Trade Tower" shanghai for images. Nanonic (talk) 21:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Yep ... http://g.co/maps/uqk94 "couple of miles from the Bund" was a misdirection - it is in the Bund. And, now that we know where it is, we can see it in File:The Bund of Shanghai.jpg near the middle, and in File:Shanghai night bund skyscrapers.jpg in the top right corner.--Itinerant1 (talk) 21:16, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys thanks a lot for the great work. I know that somebody doesn't like this building, and starngely I don't like modern buildings too, but this one look good.--Mogzyx (talk) 20:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

creating a page for my company

Dear Sir

I would like to know how to create a page for my company and how it can be retrieved by google and how can i connect it to facebook. Do let me know as soon as possible

Thanks and Regards GaneshSantosh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akulaganeshsantosh (talk • contribs) 07:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

If you wish to advertise your company, then you should register a domain name and create a website. This can then be linked from a facebook identity. Wikipedia is not the place to advertise, and you should not create an entry for your own company, but, if your company is notable, you may request that someone else creates an entry. To be notable, your company must be mentioned in publications elsewhere. Dbfirs 08:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Or even more specifically, read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). If your company was suitable and did have an article created, then Google would pick it up within a day or two. Otherwise, as Dbfirs says, you need to create your own site (and I can only guess that your company would not be considered Notable or else it would already well and truly have its own website). Unlike Wikipedia pages, with sites that aren't linked from many other places as would be the case with a new site for your company, Google may take a long time to find it, and it would most likely rank low even after it did find it. For this reason there are ways to submit your site to Google once it has been created, and you can also pay for listings, etc so that you are more likely to be found in a search. In terms of Facebook, as long as you are an official representative of your company you can create a Facebook page at any time at no cost. Then simply link between there and your company website by adding the URL in the appropriate places. --jjron (talk) 09:50, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Web hosting service will be a useful read? 130.88.73.65 (talk) 10:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Facebooks offer of new friends

I'm not enthralled with Facebook but I do use it. For the first time I checked out the "Find friends" link. Most of the people were relatives (friends of fiend/friends in common). As I scrolled down I saw a picture that looked familiar and on checking turned out to be another Wikipedia editor with whom I have no friends in common. Further down I found another Wikipedian, again we have have no friends in common, amd they don't have a Wikipedia and Facebook picture in common. After looking at all the Wikipedia and publicly available Facebook pages I saw there was nothing to link our Facebook pages and Wikipedia pages together. So how\why does Facebook know to offer me these people as friends? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 08:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Link to discussion the last time this came up. --Viennese Waltz 09:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

If you have emailed them before, and have authorised facebook to use your e-mail provider's data about your contact list, they can easily find these people (most people give their primary email address when they register on Facebook, so they are uniquely identified). If you have not done both of the above, maybe you simply share common interests (you are in the same facebook interest group)? --Lgriot (talk) 09:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

My personal theory on this phenomenon (I've experienced similar things) is that these people have searched for you on Facebook, maybe even before you joined, and that these searches are saved and then used for suggesting "people you might know". Jørgen (talk) 10:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

It could also be a second or third-order connection: You don't have any friends in common, but you have a friend who has a friend who has a friend... etc. You wouldn't see this person on any friends lists of any of your friends, but far enough down the line, there's a connection, and there's probably some kind of weighted connections algorithm that weighs these things in. If you have several paths as I describe above that get to the same person, Facebook must guess you may know them, even if you don't have any direct friend-to-friend connection. --Jayron32 04:42, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

facebook places a cookie that remains active even when you log off. the cookie then keeps track of all pages you visit and reports back to facebook. chances are you and those people looked at or edited the same page on wikipedia. facebook knows this. you can avoid this by deleting all your cookies before you log on and after you log out of facebook. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 04:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks all that replied. It would appear that Facebook found them from the email account associated with Wikipedia which for some reason I had shared with it. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:34, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

This section seems to be a good argument for (1) not using facebook at all; or (2) having a separate PC that's used for facebook and nothing else. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Flooding of Liverpool

Can someone help me settle an argument, which is whether or not Liverpool (the one in the UK) will flood if the sea levels rise ? The people that I'm arguing with keep saying that because Liverpool is built on hilly land than Liverpool cannot flood or be flooded entirely. While I keep trying to tell them that if the sea levels rise high enough than Liverpool could be flood entirely. Scotius (talk) 12:08, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you could read the Liverpool City Council Strategic Flood Risk Assessment report. The simple answer is that Liverpool is a port; much of it is quite low-lying; it has flood defences, which may well need to be improved over time; and its highest point above sea level is at 230 ft (70 m) at Everton. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I think you and your friends may have different definitions of "flood" and "rise". No-one could argue with an assertion it would flood if they rose 200m. On the flip side, a heavy rain storm without sea level rise could be said to "flood" Liverpool. The language you're using is imprecise. --Dweller (talk) 12:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Liverpool and NW England and most of Scotland are actually gradually rising above the sea due to post-glacial rebound. In contrast, SE England is sinking even without global warming; this is why the greatest threat from rising sea levels in the UK is to London, East Anglia, and the south coast. Here is a newspaper article discussing a 2009 geological study which suggests the land rise will counter the effects of the current sea level rise. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

November 10

Are world records kept for how much younger cosmetic science makes one look?

Currently, I hear of cosmetic science making someone look 25 years younger, but I don't hear of much beyond that. How far can cosmetic science take us, as it is in 2011? (Seems that Joan Rivers does extra well; is she the recordholder?)

Then by the time I'm 65, how far might cosmetic science advance? Even though WP might not be a crystal ball, we already have articles on future nanoscience, so an article related to the future of visually turning back the clock ought to be floating around our wiki somewhere. Thank you, --70.179.178.145 (talk) 09:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Interesting perspective. I work with teenagers. They use (overuse?) cosmetics to make themselves look older. HiLo48 (talk) 09:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

How can you have world records when it's all subjective how much younger you look? Clarityfiend (talk) 11:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you "hear" of cosmetic science making someone look 25yrs younger - you hear it because it's marketing hype. Let's see some genuine independent per reviewed scientific research on this before paying heed to any claims (and no, information produced by the Pond's Institute doesn't count). And regardless, as Clarityfiend says, it's subjective; if someone has cosmetic surgery at 45, by the time they're 65 we'd have to (a) make a subjective judgement about 'how old' they actually look, (b) somehow determine how old they would have looked if not for the surgery, then (c) use these two dubious figures to work out how much younger they now look, and (d) then attribute any 'benefits' to the procedure performed, which itself would not be particularly valid. Try getting unbiased results out of that mish-mash. --jjron (talk) 13:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

There was a TV show, known as 10 Years Younger (US) and 10 Years Younger (UK), the premise of which was that they polled a bunch of people how "old" the contestant looked before their makeover, and then they polled a bunch more people after their makeover. That would seem to be the closest way we could get to judging this; it's still a subjective opinion, but at least its the opinion of a bunch of people... --Jayron32 16:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

The most effective ways to look younger aren't rocket science at all, or even cosmetic science. Get a haircut that enhances your face shape. Get your teeth done. Perhaps a little makeup, enhancing your best features (optional). Clothes that suit you. A good night's sleep. Smile. (Note to self: must remember to get round to these things.) Itsmejudith (talk) 16:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Well let's face it, I'm sure someone 24 years old would appreciate looking 25 years younger... what? --TammyMoet (talk) 18:32, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

We're working on materials to do that: Metamaterial cloaking. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:05, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

land rover discovery 200 tdi fan cowling

hi just a quick one i hope. i need a new fan cowling for my land rover discovery 200tdi 2,dl diesel.:

does the fan cowl for the new 300tdi fit the older 200tdi, as all i can find is the cowling for a 300tdi? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.26.115 (talk) 15:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

There must be a landrover forum on the net somewhere that'd be more likely to provide a quick answer to this. I'm not sure that we excel on spare-part questions. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Type "landrover forum" into Google and you will find a whole page of such listings. Textorus (talk) 17:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Morse code translation

I have a message in morse code that I trying to decode, but it does not have clear spaces between the dots and dashes to show where new characters begin. All online translators I found though require spaces. Is there a program that can determine the text without spaces, or can someone decode for me? The text begins with ..-.-.....---...-..-..--......--..-.-.-.-..-.....-.-..-.-.-.-.--.----.-..-..-..-...-...-.-....--.-..- Thanks!! Reywas92^Talk 21:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

• Please give us more information about the source of this "message." Without separation between the letters, there are countless possible decodings. Knowing the language and subject would be useful, as well as knowing if it might include numbers or symbols. Assuming it is International Morse, and that there is no punctuation, for instance the first letter could be e, i, u, or f, depending on how many dots and dashes are included. The last letter could be t, a, u, x, if there is no punctuation. The whole sequence sequence could begin ertheostiti, or it could begin lb2vuephp, or it could begin eeteteeeeettt and so on, since every dot could be an e and every dash could be a t.. If someone skilled in Morse sees a familiar letter sequence, they might be able to puzzle out a sensible reading, but such a sequence of dots and dashes might conceivable have more than one sensible decoding. In ham radio transmission, it is common to run together letters in the sending, without long pauses between letters, so that only context allows decoding into words. More than 4 dots in a row suggests "h" as part, but could also be a string of i and e, perhaps along with an h. On the other hand it could be a number such as 5 with a string of dots. Someone who loves ciphers should be able to puzzle out some words. Look for common short words such as "the," which is -..... , "of", "and" "you", etc. Edison (talk) 01:02, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The number of possibilities is truly vast. I can count no fewer than 237 words of five letters or longer that would match some part of this sequence. For example, symbols starting at position 78 match the word "infuriate", starting at position 39, the word "crescent", and at position 6, the word "hamster". Do you have any idea what the message is supposed to say? Is it even in English? --Itinerant1 (talk) 04:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I got 328, but that's including capitalized words. Some of the proper names that showed up: Albert, Caesar, Deanna, Fabian, Hattie, Hittite, Kenneth, Parker, Saturn, Semite, Sparta, and Teasdale. My best attempt so far at putting it all together: "In the oil tube I get art. Fifteen tar got Edna infuriated." It's an interesting puzzle but I think more context will be needed. 67.162.90.113 (talk) 06:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Or it might as well be: "... in that tire tube. I'm in tent fifteen. Ten knot rain. Last leak ..." Really hard to make any sense of the message without context, possibilities are numerous. Longest word candidates ("infuriated" - 23 bits, "peckers", "crescent", "flasks" - 19 bits, "spectra" - 18 bits, "dredges", "spectre", "tickers", "arrested" "realign" - 17 bits) fail to connect with any nearby sequences in any meaningful way. Very possible that we're dealing with some kind of radio slang or there are numerals in the sequence. --Itinerant1 (talk) 10:24, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Did you use some program to find words? In the mode of the Ref Desk being instructive, it would be helpful to "teach'em to fish" rather than "handing them a fish sandwich." It is usually helpful for the questioner to tell us more about the message than "here it is," since a questioner might just put up a random sequence of dots and dashes as a lark. Edison (talk) 15:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Though I could really go for a fish sandwich right about now. Just sayin'. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:52, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

polishing glass headlights

what is the best way to remove pits and scraatches from glass headlight lenses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.169.161.1 (talk) 21:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

One way is to call up your windscreen repair person and ask them to sort it out. They put some kind of resin with the same refractive index s the glass in the crack. Canada balsam can do the job, but may not be very long lasting in that situation. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Bots

Per {{subst:NUMBEROFEDITS}}, 497,362,899 edits have been made to en.wikipedia as I'm writing this. Very approximately, how many of them are by bots? --Theurgist (talk) 23:44, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

All things considered, there are not very many bots allowed to operate on Wikipedia. You can run a sum over the Wikipedia:List of bots by number of edits (I count approximately 55 million edits by bot). Of course, it is almost impossible to estimate number of edits made by unregistered bots - e.g., those who do not sign in, or who operate illicitly through a human user account; and things are further complicated by tools like WP:TW and WP:AWB which blur the line between human and robot edit. Nimur (talk) 00:20, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

What is a bot, please?~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Froggie34 (talk • contribs) 11:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

"Bots are automated or semi-automated tools that carry out repetitive and mundane tasks in order to maintain the 3,792,837 articles of the English Wikipedia." That is, they're programmed tools for making repetitive edits to wWikipedia. You can find out more at Wikipedia:Bots. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

"Bot" is short for robot, which in this context means a program which automatically makes edits to Wikipedia without human interaction. One such bot is User:Sinebot, which was triggered by your question asking what a bot is because you did not sign your edit (you need four tildes, no just one), so Sinebot signed it for you. To date, sine bot alone has made 1.3 million edits, or about 0.26% of the total edits to Wikipedia. Other bots do things such as analyze new edits and revert what appear to be blatant vandalism, such as page blanking (where all the text is removed from a page). Theurgist's question is relevant because many people will assume that all of Wikipedia's half-billion edits will have been make directly by humans, and would be mislead if a large percentage of these had been made by bots. Nimur showed that only about 11% of all edits have been made by registered bots, which is a significant number, but not an overwhelming one. Also note that the last word in Theurgist's question is a link to Wikipedia:BOT, which could have answered your question. -- ToE 16:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

November 11

Real pics of JFK ?

Are these [12] [13] real ?  Jon Ascton  (talk) 01:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The second one looks just like him, and Jacqueline wearing a hat such as she wore on the assassination day. His jacket and ""pocket square" match assassination day, but his tie looks less patterned than the one he wore when he arrived in Dallas, and her jacket and blouse might be different, since photos of Jacqueline that day show dark lapels. One account said that her aides urged her to change out of the clothes with blood and brains on them after the shooting and before the photos of Lyndon Johnson being sworn in as President, but she refused and said "Let the pictures show what they did to him:" [14], [15]. The first one looks nothing like him circa 1960-1963, since he actually had slight sideburns, unlike the guy in the photo, and the eyes look nothing like Kennedy's. The mouth is conveniently covered up. Fake/hoax/someone else: [16]. Edison (talk) 05:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

British student having to pay European Open University rates

Hi all. I am currently studying with the Open University and living in Germany. According to the OU's website I must pay the European fee rate because I no longer live in the UK (the same rate any other non-UK student would have to pay from Europe). Somebody said its because the UK government doesn't want to foot the bill for people living in Europe or something like that. The funny thing is the UK government are prepared to foot this bill for anyone living in the UK (whether they are British). On the other hand the German government will help pay for your educational fees through Bafög, which usually applies to all people living within Germany also, however OU students are NOT eligible despite the fact that they fulfil the criteria for this fund (several european court cases are ongoing). So my question is, are there any funds or scolarships or the like which I could apply for? I know I am a pretty unusual case but I don't see why I should be singled out and end up paying more than twice the amount that I usually would if I still lived within the UK. I'd be very grateful for any replies! ;) 91.49.41.175 (talk) 07:26, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The OU should be able to give you advice. Have you contacted them? --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Presumably the rationale for the higher fees is that you are (assumed to be) not paying UK tax. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 10:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

From memory there are exceptions: if you started a course in the UK you can continue to follow overseas you can pay the lower fee

This last point is right. Living in the UK means being there at the time of enrollment. The point is that you'll be able to pay the same UK price if you give the address of some relative. You simply will have to travel back to the UK for examinations and manage to get the material by post. But yes, you can save a lot doing that, specially if you are studying the whole program.

Googling "open university " + bafög produces a lot of hits. It's amazing, but true. I suppose the German government doesn't want to pay to a foreign university. 88.14.195.138 (talk) 15:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

The funny thing is the argument used against funding the OU. Although the classify the OU as equal to German universities, they are unhappy about the OU admitting people without formal qualifications. The thing is I moved here 8 years ago...so ironically I actually have the German 'abitur' which would entitle me to study at a German university. Regardless the arguments used against funding people at the OU are absurd and unfair. The EU really needs to take action, but as usual they don't seem to being doing anything at all, despite the many complaints. :( I don't think there is anyway around this. :(91.60.238.133 (talk) 17:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

You should not interfere with mother nature

I remember watching a video when there was a lone baby elephant (seemed separated from the herd ) which came across 2 young male lions. There was a fight and this baby elephant stood its ground but in the end got killed. There were people and conservationists around but they didn't interfere with mother nature. There was a man who saved a baby hippo from the raging river. He took care of this hippo but got criticized (and if my memory serves me right, even faced charges) for he interfered with mother nature when he saved the baby hippo. I just finished reading this [17] and my question is “what are the exceptions?”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.107.148.210 (talk) 09:50, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Basically the exception is that you can do what you want if the animal is cute enough. That's about it.

The article isn't referring to a formal system of rules, but to a more general feeling about what's right and wrong to do (although certain organisations and institutions have formal rules). Many people feel that it's wrong to intervene when one animal is preying on another (since that's all part of the natural order of nature, and predators need to eat), but it's ok to rescue animals from rarer natural disasters such as floods, fires, etc, because they're unusual situations and could cause serious damage to populations. You don't want to interfere with the food chain or ratio of predators to prey, because a population explosion in one species can have devastating ecological effects. Making a very rare exception, like saving these particular elephants, won't have a significant ecological effect in itself, but if people rescued every baby elephant you could end up overrun by millions of elephants. --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Conservation of endangered species is one common exception. Of course you could argue that in many cases this is just counteracting the effect of other human "interventions" on the animals or their environment. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:11, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I would just point out that interfering in the first situation would probably mean either injuring or killing the two lions, or, at the very best, depriving them of a meal. That's a pretty severe intervention into the food chain and the total balance of animals. (I guess you could also toss a few tasty steaks to them and hope they lose interest in the elephant, but now you're getting into the "feeding animals" area which is also hugely interventionist with regards to their habits.) Interfering in the second instance meant just keeping one less dead hippo out of the river. That isn't without its ecological consequences (carrion feeders, etc.), or its evolutionary consequences (weeding out poor swimming hippos), but it's decidedly less interventionist than the first situation. I don't know where conservationists draw their line, but the two situations have some real differences. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:07, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

You might be interested in reading about the people who got upset when a zoo saved a baby polar bear: Knut. --Sean 17:02, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Twitter

Can I see all the people that mention someone on Twitter, or do only my followers that mention someone show up? Does the person's "wall" of their tweets show other people who mentoin them, or does it only show up on the mentioners "wall" CTJF83 10:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

There's no way to 'automatically' do this, but if you enter the user of interest's full name in the search box including the @ symbol, e.g., @username, then it will load all mentions of that user. Note that this is a best case scenario - for reasons best known to Twitter, if you do this with a very popular name it only seems to return a random selection of the mentions, usually favouring other 'high profile' Twitter users. Refreshing the search can turn up different results. --jjron (talk) 12:25, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Got it :) That's exactly what I wanted, thank you very much! CTJF83 12:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

MBTI test

god day to you all!!

can anyone tell me where i can get an online free MBTI test?? i have searched on Google, and i got a few links, and they all gave me different types!!

can anyone tell me the most authentic link??

thanx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.242.192 (talk) 16:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)