Talk:K2

Perhaps someone could write/link to an article on the 1995 disaster thaht killed, i think, seven climbers, including hargreaves and slater. Alot of the material is already in hargreaves article so it could be easily done by someone who has previous writing experience in the area. it would tally with the other two link articles for the other disasters.

Names (esp. Dapsang)

There are different names given for K2; Chogori - Balti (made up by western explorers); Qogir - Chinese; Lambha Pahar - Urdu; so what about Dapsang? I could not find out anything about its origin. Does anybody know? And I assume Lambha Pahar (meaning tall mountain) is the translation of Chogori? Or is this name older? --Rupert Pupkin (talk) 00:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Fulvio Campiotti has the following information on page 21 of his [rare] book K2. The Balti's that accompanied Conway to the Baltoro informed him of the name 'Chiring' they had given to, what we now know as being, K2. Jacot-Guillarmod [1902 with Eckenstein and Crowley] picked up the name 'Chogori' or even 'Chogo Ri' ['the great mountain']. The Duca degli Abruzzi [in 1909] referred to K2 in terms like 'Lanpapahad' and 'Lanfafahad', where the 1929 expedition of Aimone de Spolete [and a very young Ardito Desio] used the term 'Lamba Pahar'. 'Lamba Pahar' translates as 'high summit', not 'tall mountain' as you stated. I have see the name Dapsang noted on several maps, mostly of German origin, and I can only trace this back to the Brothers Schlagintweit. Supposedly they attached this name to the most beautiful of peaks, but I'm not able to give you any translation if there'd be any. (Qwrk (talk) 11:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC))

China/Pakistan Border Map

This map implies that K2 is within Chinese territory as it shows K2 on the far left of a complete map of China. This should be changed to one that is centered on K2s actual location, showing the respective borders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.18.84.10 (talk) 22:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Elevation

I made a very small edit today, there was no reference to the height of the mountain in the main article, only in the Infobox, so I added it.Andy Johnston (talk) 14:16, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Comparison to Mt Everest

"Objectively speaking, K-2 is simply steeper, more treacherous, more isolated and more prone to avalanches and route finding mistakes than Mount Everest. But psychological factors also play a part. One of the reasons so many die on K-2 is that, compared with Mount Everest, it is much more difficult to merely get permission to climb K-2, make the long trek to base camp and then get high enough up on the mountain to have a real shot at the summit. Most climbers know that they will never have another chance to climb it, so once they get to 24,000 feet they often reason, "I am going to go for it, its now or never," and they are prepared to be reckless in their decision-making. By contrast, the base of Mount Everest is easily accessible by helicopter on the South side or by road on the North side. And any very fit climber with moderate experience can get to 22,000 feet on Everest safely if he has a guide. So most Everest climbers don't have the same degree of desperation, when halfway up the mountain, to seek the summit at any cost. They are more willing to turn back if it appears a life or death situation is developing. Westerners also know that, with the political situation in that part of Asia becoming more dangerous since 2001, travelling safely within Pakistan might not be possible in the future, and K-2 might even be closed to climbers at some point. By contrast, the safety situation for Westerners is excellent on the Chinese side of Everest, and very good and improving on the Nepalese side. This reinforces the climber's impression that, if unsuccessful, he will have a chance at the summit in a future climbing season.

In addition, since it is well known that K-2 is extremely dangerous, a higher percentage of those attempting it are more skilled and more experienced climbers than those climbing Everest. Their egos can lead them to think their knowledge can save them. And in certain cases it can. But when events such as avalanches or terrible storms occur, experience or skill cannot protect the human body from the forces of physics, just as the most skilled astronaut has no better chance of survival than a rookie if the spaceship breaks up. The humility and objective judgment that allow a climber to turn around and give up is less common in many elite climbers, and the mountain has no mercy on macho all-or-nothing alpinists who suppress the very natural fear that is there to protect them."

I've removed this paragraph as it is completely unsourced, full of weasel words and seems like original research. It should be properly referenced and rephrased before being put back. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 05:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Image nominated for deletion

No notice was ever placed here that this image has been nominated for deletion. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 22:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing at this one. I tried to find evidence that this image may be kept. See Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2008_August_28. --Rupert Pupkin (talk) 16:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

I've reshuffled the images in the article a bit - I thought having three different versions of the view from Concordia (or Broad Peak Base Camp, which is much the same place) was a bit excessive. Instead I've found an assortment of new ones which show the mountain from more varied angles - a couple from the 1909 expedition, a nice photo from the air I found on Flickr, and another version of the North Face shot from Commons - correctly tagged this time. I also cut the size of some of them slightly so they fit on the page better without dwarfing the text. Hope this meets with approval. More photos for consideration can be found on Commons, though most of the remaining ones are other versions of the shot from Concordia. Iain99^{Balderdash and piffle} 19:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Geology?

Climbing seems to be the main theme in this article, but the article should mention the geology of the mountain. The Mt. Everest article has a separate section for its geology. Farmercarlos (talk) 15:06, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

climbing information can be gathered from all over the web, that's easy. Details about the geology seems harder to obtain, you'll need books. If you have some or can get some from a library e.g. you are very welcome to write a section about the geology. It'll be definitely appreciated. --Rupert Pupkin (talk) 15:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Climbing History - Success and repeats

The original article does mention the role of Walter Bonatti in supplying Oxygen to Lino Lacedelli and Achille Compagnoni during the first successful attempt in 1954. However, it does not mention that Bonatti wasn't alone. He was accompanied by Pakistani Hunza porter Mahdi, and both of them stayed out in the night at a very high altitude after the infamous incident in which Lacedelli and Compagnoni "wouldn't help them or let them into their tent" -- Source is http://www.k2climb.net/news.php?id=17470

Border location

Here is the extract from the border agreement:

(5) Thence, the boundary line, running generally southward and then eastward, strictly follows the Karakoram Range main watershed which separates the Tarim River drainage system from the Indus River drainage system, passing through the East Mustagh Pass (Muztagh Pass), the top of the Chogri Peak (K2), the top of the Broad Peak, the top of the Gasherbrum Mountain (8068) Indirakoli Pass (named on the Chinese map only) and the top of the Teram Kangri Peak, and reaches its southeastern extremity at the Karakoram Pass. Viewfinder (talk) 20:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There may be grounds for reopeining this case if a reliable source can be provided that states that the highest point is detached from and on the Pakistani side of the watershed divide, but I cnnot see any evidence in support of this. Viewfinder (talk) 20:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I think one thing that is causing people to do POV editing is the pushpin map. It isn't very neutral (although I just changed the caption to be more neutral). Unfortunately using the Pakistan pushpin map isn't much better. Is there a convenient map that we could include that centers K2 better and doesn't highlight a particular country? (The highlighting makes it look like it belongs only to that country---even though the text makes it clear that it does not.) -- Spireguy (talk) 15:14, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Can we use both maps, preferably smaller versions? Viewfinder (talk) 15:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Mortality rate?

"Among the eight-thousanders, K2 has the second highest climbing mortality rate." Which mountain has the highest? The table in the eight-thousanders article gives 38% overall for K2, higher than any other. PhilUK (talk) 19:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the death rate is higher on Annapurna. See [1] for up to date information. Viewfinder (talk) 12:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Steepness

I have removed this degree of steepness, at this vertical scale, in so many different directions, is unmatched in the world. Spire Measure, which measures precisely the above, ranks K2 highly, but not first. Viewfinder (talk) 21:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I actually was the one who put that sentence in; it's basically correct, since K2 achieves its high spire measure by steepness in almost all directions, rather than by huge relief. E.g. Nanga Parbat is just as steep on one side (the Rupal face) but not on the others, but it has greater overall relief; and Rakaposhi is not as steep in any direction, but has greater relief. However, I won't reinstate the sentence, since the reference is to my page---the updated version actually being this list. -- Spireguy (talk) 13:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to remove your addition, I had no idea that it was yours. But I think it needs referencing to some sort of measure, otherwise it is surely an unverifiable POV. Viewfinder (talk) 14:59, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Karakoram not part of Himalaya

The second sentence of the lead reads:

With a peak elevation of 8,611 metres (28,251 ft), K2 is part of the Karakoram segment of the Himalayan range,

This is not correct as geographically speaking, the Karakoram range is different from the Himalayan range and is not a part of it.--Shahab (talk) 13:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

K2: Life and Death on the World's Most Dangerous Mountain

Ed Viesturs has written a new book on his experiences. Please add this to the book list:

• K2: Life and Death on the World's Most Dangerous Mountain by Ed Viesturs. ISBN 0767932501. 2009

Thanks MarkBHowell (talk) 12:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

The change from K2 to K2 (mountain) [and from Talk:K2 to Talk:K2 (mountain)

G'day User:The High Fin Sperm Whale.

In all honesty I don't think I agree with this change you just implemented. You can see on K2 (disambiguation) that this K2 is by far the most known variety there is, so I'd propose changing it back and have the other pages make sure they specify things clear enough as to avoid confusion. Qwrk (talk) 19:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense. I guess it should be changed back, since no one thinks it's a good idea. But there is still the very big problem of the fact that I accidentally created two identical articles for K2 and K2 (mountain). Could you please contact an administrator (I couldn't find any)? --The High Fin Sperm Whale (talk) 19:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for touching base. I think you're best off contacting User:Silence since s/he appears to be a person in the know, and from his/her talk page I get it s/he's made a comparable move some time ago. Qwrk (talk) 20:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've moved it back. —WWoods (talk) 17:32, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for that. Highly appreciated. Qwrk (talk) 20:24, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Horia Colibăşanu

To be added at "Success and repeats" section: 2004 - Horia Colibăşanu was the first Romanian who reached the top of K2 http://www.horiacolibasanu.ro/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.119.232.72 (talk) 14:20, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure if the quality of this page would improve, were we to implement a section like the one you propose. On the subject of Mount Everest there is a page Timeline of climbing Mount Everest which - IMHO - only serves the purpose of personal and / or nationalistic praise. Also, we'd have to go through the throublesome and tiring work of repeating Eberhard Jurgalski's work, which is freely available at [2]. So, I'd suggest adding quality info, and to try as much as possible to refrain from adding lists and more lists and just cluter up the whole thing. Qwrk (talk) 13:04, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

record

Wasn't K2 considered the tallest mountain in the world for some time in the early 90s? --24.103.173.3 (talk) 06:42, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

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Location of K2

The article currently states: "K2 is part of the Karakoram range, and is located on the border[2] between the Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County of Xinjiang, China and Gilgit, in Gilgit-Baltistan of Pakistan." It is not neutral to say that the disputed territory (where K2 actually lies) belongs to Pakistan. This line quotes the Britannica article (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/309107/K2) which correctly mentions that K2 is situated on the border of China and "disputed Kashmir region under the administration of Pakistan". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aayushk (talk • contribs) 04:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)