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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Shazaamemt (talk | contribs) at 08:43, 5 November 2009 (→Education: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Pbneutral

Removed Daily Mail

I removed the Daily Mail source as the paper is notorious for being loose with facts as all tabloids are. I'd as soon use the National Enquirer or (God forbid) the the Sun.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Soxwon (talk • contribs) 03:38, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Beckian tidbits becoming iconic

  1. The "red phone" bit(?)
  2. Portraiture from out of photographer Jill Greenberg's shoot of Beck for GQ -- used ubiquitously since (including for Time) -- & not to mention this behind the scenes clip↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 04:35, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The red phone is an icon of the Cold War. Can you prove that the words "red phone" automatically remind people of Glenn Beck, and not the Cold War? Novalord2 04:40, 16 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novalord2 (talk • contribs)

No one needs to prove a thing. if the sources comment on it we can use that.Cptnono (talk)
What sources? Grsz11 05:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ask the editor proposing it or see if you can find them. Maybe that is what you meant but it initially came across like it was about to start another long debate when a source would be the best first step.Cptnono (talk) 05:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Beck's "war" against O & the White House and/or vice versa is white hot, media-wise, with Beck's "red phone" bit cited in the sources as an instant classic. (My phrase, not theirs; come to think of it though, its very apropos of 50s McCarthyism, huh!...well, plus 60s Kennedy-Kruschev nuclear brinksmanship. Anyway, links on current skirmish(/es?) classed together today by Google are here(?) --> click↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 15:21, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Video clips do not qualify as a reliable third party source. This is trivia and original research. It doesn't belong in the article. Preservation does not apply to non-noteworthy trivia. Bytebear (talk) 17:07, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The link above (labeled "click" a couple posts up) provides proof of ample notability for Beck's "red phone" satire [Edited: My bad.] (BTW, PRESERVE sez (a) tag a notable contribution for better sourcing or (b) provide it oneself or (c) mv it to a better pg or (d) take it to talk somewhere, presumably if its provided sourcing is waay weak -- which is why, incidentally, I had picked choice d.!)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 21:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Fox News coverage of Fox-WH controversy, highlighting red phone satire ("Media Brawl" 17Oct)
  2. Mediaite "[...B]eetween the red phone on set, the grip whose job it is to sit beside it in case the White House calls, the chalkboard, and Beck’s impressions, his opener this evening may have been the best 20 minutes of television you’ll see all day." (link)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 19:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. The AP: "Beck placed a red phone on his desk, saying it was a hot line available to Dunn anytime she thought something untrue about Obama was being said on his show." ("Picking a fight: Obama vs Fox News" 18Oct)
  4. The NYT's Kate Phillips: "Late last week, Fox News had a bit of fun with the mini-battle between Ms. Dunn and Mr. Beck, laughing about Mr. Beck’s installing a 'red phone' to get the chief communicator to call him."   &   "(...W)ill he (Gibbs) call Mr. Beck’s red batphone?"↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 22:54, 18 October 2009 (UTC)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 17:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  5. The Public Broadcasting System's News Hour with Jim Lehrer:

    This week, Beck referred to Dunn as "a woman who is trying to crush freedom of speech" and mockingly said he had installed a red phone to take her call any time.

    GLENN BECK: We used to have a red phone at the White House where, if Russia did something, you know, they could pick it up, and the president could say: "What are you doing? We're going to bomb you." And then they would talk things out.   ¶   Well, we have installed this telephone, the only people that have it, the people now in Anita Dunn's office in the White House.

    (link)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 18:08, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Sydney Morning Herald

    "Last week on his show, Beck placed a red phone on his desk, saying it was a hotline available to Dunn any time she thought something untrue about Obama was being said on his show." (link)

    ↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 07:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  7. LATimes "Glenn Beck, the network's newest star, gleefully unveiled a red telephone on his set, saying it was a special line for the White House to use to correct any mistakes he makes." (link)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 00:02, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The red phone will probably be forgotten pretty soon. The sources don't seem to indicate that the red phone was wildly popular or significant to his persona. I agree that it is trivial and un-noteworthy. Novalord2 ([[User talk:Novalord2|talk] —Preceding undated comment added 03:42, 19 October 2009 (UTC).[reply]
Well, Novalord2, do you have any opinion, then, as to whether the controversy w/re to "Fox News's slanting 'vee es' the White House's media strategizing" might be notable enough for Wikicoverage?↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 04:23, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yawn. Media yapping mouth concocts stunt of the week to keep up ratings and maintain ad revenue. So what? He's got to come up with material daily. If its' still being covered regularly in a month as more than another example of his 'wacky' behavior, if she actually calls and uses his 'hotline', then it might be notable. Mostly it's the weekly media stunt. He's learning from Stephen Colbert, more than anything. ThuranX (talk) 05:18, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Folks' pontifications are interesting but sourcing is what's definitive. It appears, per our editing directives at "Wikipedia:RECENTISM," that the job of Wikicontributors, as a first step, is our composing accurate and balanced treatments of incidents of much public note, to eventually be refined into more nuanced presentations later.

Recentism in the first sense—established articles that are bloated with event-specific facts at the expense of longstanding content—is usually considered one of Wikipedia's faults. But in many cases, the recentist content can be a valuable preliminary stage in gathering information. Any encyclopedia, even Britannica, goes through rough drafts; new Wikipedia articles are published while in draft and developed/improved in real time, so rapidly developing drafts may appear to be a clutter of news links and half-developed thoughts. Later, as the big picture emerges, the least relevant content ought to be and often is eliminated.---WP:RECENTISM

↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 08:38, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anything new here?

Louisville Courier-Journal↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 00:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Several things:
  • Salon says he was fired but that piece says he left (three times and there is a quote).
  • "“I saw him as a well-polished guy for as young as he was,” Lincoln said. “It was a different type of show. I didn't think there were many other morning shows doing things like that.” - He was good for being young or something
  • "Before he was an influential political commentator, Beck battled the likes of Terry Meiners, Ron Clay and Troy Roebuck for listeners on Louisville's radio airwaves. From 1985 to 1987, Beck worked at WRKA, where he already was demonstrating a knack for creating controversy." He made "borderline tasteless jokes" which "weren't uncommon on Louisville radio back then" - Beck started controversy with his competition. He poked fun of one girl's weight. He made tasteless jokes.
  • "Lincoln said that when WRKA hired Beck, the station staff was abuzz. He was a young up-and-comer with a reputation that preceded him, and he lived up to the expectations. His ability to create characters — particularly Clydie Clyde, a voice he still uses today — and write elaborate skits was incomparable." - he was fresh and new or something
  • he was not political.Cptnono (talk) 01:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Salon.com v The Courier-Journal

Salon.com vs The Courier-Journal

"Beck left, abruptly, in the summer of 1987 amid a dispute with WRKA management. Months later, after he had landed a job in the much larger Phoenix market" [1] The article also asserts "he picked up and left town" (from a competitor) "and he left Louisville after barely two years"

or

"He was fired and the station brought its youth experiment to an end. As Beck and his wife packed their bags for Phoenix in early 1987"[2]Cptnono (talk) 01:12, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A good practice when there are differences between equally reliable sources is to include both, or to cover the difference by leaving out the details. Something like "Beck either left or was fired in 1987..."   Will Beback  talk  03:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is Salon reliable? There have been concerns about this report but I don't know that much about the writer or website.Cptnono (talk) 05:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Left abruptly amid a dispute with management" sounds a lot like "fired". Does it really make much difference? Radio talk show hosts in smaller markets seem to move around a lot., usually because they didn't get the ratings the management wanted. It's not like getting fired from many other kinds of jobs, which can imply dereliction. I'd say try to avoid giving too much detail.   Will Beback  talk  07:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It might make a huge difference in the eyes of some readers. "Left abruptly amid a dispute with management" is good and could imply both ways (but certainly is not a verified termination for cause) but fired is pretty strong. I am also concerned about the date. Dates have been a pain in the article and although it is trivial it should be right. Summer and early of whatever year are not the same. Just the year seems like a fine replacement to me.Cptnono (talk) 08:21, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You need to err on the side of caution. You have three sources that say he left, one arguably biased source says he was fired. BLPs need to avoid anything that may result in libel charges. Claiming he was fired without definitive proof is simply unacceptable. Bytebear (talk) 18:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Then again, there are those people who know that IT REALLY DOESN'T FREAKIN MATTER WHETHER OR NOT HE GOT FIRED IN 1987. He makes $27 million a year, and his quitting/firing in 1987 does not detract from his success. Joshua Ingram 19:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The terms "left abruptly" and "fired" are used by the sources in a way that is directly contradictory. I would prefer to use The Courier-Journal since it has a reputation and a less biased and more reliable source. The Squicks (talk) 19:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To some people being fired is a big deal. All of the bolding won't change that. There is also the principle of being factually accurate on a Wikipeida BLP. Please read the opening of Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons if you haven't had the chance. Cptnono (talk) 19:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My bad, Cptnono, I should have phrased that differently. I was pointing out to whomever keeps pushing the retarded point that, "he may have been fired," in 1987, that it really doesn't make him look as bad as they might have thought. You were doing the right thing However, that guy is making a very poor libel attempt, and I was pointing out how pointless it was. Sorry, Cptnono. Joshua Ingram 20:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't figure out why you were bolding it. It reminded me of me editing without having enough coffee!
Going with "left abruptly" works it looks like. Just to make it simple, we an use the year instead of early or summer. Small little changes that need t be done to keep us honest. Any concerns?Cptnono (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Part II (kind of)

Salon makes a big to do about his mother's death being either an accident or a suicide and we have given it space. The Courier-Journal says that Beck says it was a suicide. Should this be mentioned?Cptnono (talk) 21:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Hartford Advocate & the H---- Courant w/re Beck's morning zoo stint there

Glenn put the Conn-servative into Connecticutt?

"Matt Feduzi, who did the news for that morning show [KC101's "morning zoo"], told the [Hartford] Advocate that he figured Beck's chances to make it to the big time were maybe 50-50: 'We used to say he's going to be either a cult leader or a failure.'" (link)

↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 08:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Um... what? There's nothing in that source (that I see at first reading) that implies that Beck was a criminal or that his colleagues thought that he would be a criminal. The Squicks (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just ignore the "cute" quote! -- I am just pointing to the piece as a source of info about Beck during that part of his life.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 22:35, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I for one appreciate the heads up on new and relevant sources. We have two excellent sources now that will prevent the potential scourge of RECENTISM. Now where to start?Cptnono (talk) 01:31, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Follow-up: Is it a good source though? The first line is hilarious! I assume we can use the less flamboyant aspects.Cptnono (talk) 01:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Lunatic fringe" term

I do not believe the line "leading the lunatic fringe" is sufficient to use the hyperactive term in that manner in this article. A writer for Time something something lunatic fringe might work but this is a BLP and there is not a preponderance of evidence or sources equating him to being the leader of a leaderless group. I also believe the editor should be ashamed of himself for including such information in BLP without considering the caution that is necessary. Juicey sources do not equal good sources.Cptnono (talk) 22:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You revert my edit saying it is vandalism, then you come here and post several more completely different reasons. You should be ashamed of yourself for accusing me of vandalism. Reliefappearance (talk) 22:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I assumed you were a vandal. When you reverted I realized you were simply editing in a grossly inappropriate manner. Bother are bad and you need to check up on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons before attempting to contribute to this project further.Cptnono (talk) 22:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's funny because your addition to my talk page states quite a different story. Reliefappearance (talk) 03:56, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Twice now my edit has been reverted. Am I surprised? Absolutely not.

Lunatic fringe is a real term. Beck is described as being part of the lunatic fringe in an RS. So, in good faith, I added the term to describe Beck. This is not vandalism. Reliefappearance (talk) 22:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I admit I too hastily credited your edit to vandalism, however, to proclaim Beck the "leader" of a lunatic fringe indicates he is the intentional leader of such and has accepted responsibility of the same. This is clearly not the case. SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 22:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"In good faith?" Are you kidding? You must be, because no one would label anyone the pejorative adjective, "The Leader of the Lunatic Fringe," in good faith. Go find some other "good faith" idiots to cry to, and stop the BS. And while you're there, look up the term, "good faith." Joshua Ingram 23:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Are you trying to tell me that my edit was vandalism? If so, you must be kidding. I admit that there may be a valid reason or two to remove my addition, and per WP:BOLD there's no reason I shouldn't make edits I feel that I should make, but my edit was in no way vandalism. You seem to be extremely worked up over this. Considering you just called me an idiot and a bullshitter, I suggest you take a cool down. Sleep on it my friend. Reliefappearance (talk) 03:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Vandalism? Perhaps, but definitely way POV and inappropriate. Bytebear (talk) 04:39, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The dogpiling and personal attacks in this section are ridiculous. If ReliefAppearance took this mess to AN/I, I have little doubt that there woudl be justifiable blocks handed out against all of you. You're assaulting good faith editors in your zeal to protect your idol, to the detriment of both the article and the tone of the talk page. ThuranX (talk) 04:55, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Funny, you grandstand on good faith amuses me for its irony. Bytebear (talk) 04:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You must be missing words or letters, because I cannot parse your comment for any meaning. Yes, seriously. I think you left out a word or two. ThuranX (talk) 05:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ThuranX, you go right ahead and take it to someone. If they decide to dole out blocks, I will take mine quietly and apologize profusely as soon as I get back. However, if you took it to someone, they would probably point out to you the ludicrious claim that this edit was made in good faith with no POV behind it. That's horse****, and you know it. Now, I'm not convinced that he is aware of how NOT good faith it was, because that editor seemed honestly surprised that it was not considered good faith.
Maybe, reliefappearance, you should look up the definition of good faith. If you honestly believe that Beck is the leader of the lunatic fringe, then you should probably look into his stances and beliefs (not people's interpretation of his words, ALL of HIS ACTUAL WORDS), then make a decision. Based solely on your talk page and history, you might want to take it easy on being bold until you have all the facts. Joshua Ingram 05:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Amazing how little people can read. CptNono tried to work with Relief, suggesting the use of the 'Time magazine says...' approach, but was brusque and unclear in his suggestion. However, afte that, it became a dogpile on the editor., I say, stop dogpiling. The obvious hostility displayed by those like 'JoshuaIngram' is really ridiculous. On no, someone on the internet is "wrong". Go nuts, and good luck with the aneurysm. Either help the editor work on the material, or keep your fingers on the desk. What I see above is sa lot of attacks on him because you assume he hates Beck, instead of that he wants to include Time Magazine's assessment, which is, by any reasonable standard, a Gooed Faith edit to make, whether or not the ultimate consensus is for or against inclusion. ThuranX (talk) 05:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So one man's opinion is proof enough to make it into the lede of a BLP, and not at least be labeled as a single man's opinion? You know what?
Reliefappearance, if you really meant it in good faith, then I apologize for "dogpiling" on you. I am used to dealing with people like ThuranX, and made the assumption that you were a jerk with a "persecute Glenn Beck" complex. You have my apology.
ThuranX, you might want to be careful with your words. If there was one or two more people saying what you just said about me, then that would meet your definition of "dogpiling." And that's called HYPOCRISY. And if I can't read, at least I can spell. Joshua Ingram 05:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I Looove Joel Stein but his use of a term such as "lunatic" is really more akin to Jon Stewart's or Mr. Beck's use of such hyperbole than it would be akin to a Time news piece's asserting that description, without attribution (or if a very rare Time official editorial were to do so.......IAC, everybody knows the brilliant Stein's generally-quite-ideosyncratic opinion columns, laced as they are with humor, ain't exactly straight news features!)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 06:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

is Beck part of the lunatic fringe?

Despite the above discussion, I contend that Beck IS part of Roosevelt's Lunatic Fringe. Obviously there needs to be better sourcing to include it in the article, but I believe the opponents above feel that the statement is false or something, and that is why they tried to accuse me of vandalism, because of they are not looking at this from a neutral point of view. "Lunatic Fringe" is a term that describes, to put it simply, lunatics that offer fringe political views. IE: NOT MAINSTREAM. Honestly, it is clear I will have to drop this, but not without having made my point. Thank you and goodnight and don't bother posting the usual ban threats on my talk page. Reliefappearance (talk) 04:01, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The guy is one of the most popular talk show hosts in the country, with over 3 million viewers a day (destroying the other networks in this time slot). He's is a multiple #1 NYT bestselling author. How is that the Lunatic Fringe? Who would have thought that promoting the values of the founding fathers would now label you part of the lunatic fringe... Morphh (talk) 4:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
The founding fathers were fiercely partisan. Beck just picks and chooses things they said or wrote that he agrees with and then rants about it on his show. Nice try. Reliefappearance (talk) 13:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Being partisan is one thing, being a lunatic on the fringe is another. Also, I was being eccentric with the last sentence, sorry if that wasn't clear. Morphh (talk) 13:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any decent third party reliable source on this opinion? And make no mistake, this is an opinion, but is is a noteworthy one? Does this assertion come from anyone who is not critical of Beck? In other words, is this criticism only coming from (ironically) the left-wing lunatic fringe? Bytebear (talk) 04:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, Morphh, your long held contention that you are truly neutral and working solely to improve the article is betrayed by your assertion that Beck is "promoting the values of the founding fathers", an idea debately centrally in almost all critical assessments of the man. Thank you for making your biases clear, so that awe can all work on a neutral article more clearly in the future. ThuranX (talk) 04:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Have you ever read or listened to Beck without the filter of the HuffPost or MMfA or MoveOn.org? Obviously not, because if you had, then you would know that almost every other sentence has the words, "Founding Fathers," in it. While I don't personally pretend that I am not an unapologetic Beck fan, I do try to take a neutral stance when editing the article, and it is possible to be a fan and not be blind to a person's faults, and certainly not want to hide them. Joshua Ingram 04:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just because you don't agree with him, does not make him lunatic or part of any "fringe." So, absolutely not. Joshua Ingram 04:49, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you can be a [Edited: self-described] "founders lover" and still be considered fringy. Witness our friend -- not Van Jones, but, Alex Jones! Whereas it is A. Jones who coined the phrase popular among some teaparty goers, "The Answer to 1984 is 1776," WP's lede of A. Jones's BLP cites Michelle Goldberg as saying in The New Republic w/r to Jones (who is a self-described "aggressive constitutionalist" and paleoconservative libertarian) that Jones represents, we quote, an old strain of American conservatism--isolationist, anti-Wall Street, paranoid about elite conspiracies--that last flowered during the John Birch Society’s heyday. (Here is a profile on Jones.)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 05:03, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just because he uses a phrase often, doesn't make it true. ThuranX (talk) 05:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, ThuranX -- that goes without saying!↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 05:18, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're absolutely right. However, when the beliefs you claim to espouse are the same as the Founding Father's views, it tends to lend more credit to your claim. Joshua Ingram 05:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to have confused Wikipedia's talk page with a WP:FORUM setting. You are quite blatantly letting your personal agreements with Beck's interpretations of the Founding Fathers color your entire attitude towards this situation, and indubitably, any other related to this topic. I suggest, quite sincerely, you consider editing in other areas, where your personal feelings inhibit your ability to deal with things objectively. A simple google search shows numerous disagreements with his interpretations, and we have an RS describing him as a leader of the lunatic fringe. This discussion, thus, should focus far more on criticisms of his opinions re: the founding fathers, and on the reliability of Time Magazine as a source for Wikipedia, and the weight of their comments regarding Beck. Instead, you've clearly made this an 'us vs. them' fight, which helps nobody. ThuranX (talk) 05:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And you aren't? I don't hide the fact that I am a Beck fan, but I don't use it one way or the other when I edit the page. You are the one that is trying to paint me in a bad light, thereby using this place as a forum for general discussion. You, sir, are a HYPOCRITE. And I'll take my bias and go away as soon as you do. Joshua Ingram 05:54, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, I've sought to include material which both flatters, and does not flatter, Beck, so long as it is reliably sourced. I've often argued for more unflattering criticism of the man, because this article definitely seems to lack a balanced coverage. That said, I'll take your offer. I'm unwatching this page after this post. I'm sure the page will benefit more from your absence than my presence, and there are other places on this project I can spend my time. ThuranX (talk) 06:03, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Um, both sides of this argument are getting a bit too heated and clouded. Please, take a quick breather, and approach this again from the outside. (The "views of the Founding Fathers" and whether editors agree with Beck or not has absolutely no bearing on this article.)

It might be significant that a major periodical like Time referred to Beck as "leading the lunatic fringe." However, under no circumstances should it be stated as an assertion as Reliefappearance did; it should be attributed as one significant viewpoint of several, if it warrants inclusion at all. Personally, I don't think it would add anything that the mention of "polarizing... controversial views" in the lead and the further details in the "Public reception" section already cover. Fran Rogers (talk) 05:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Whether Beck is part of the "lunatic fringe" is not for us here as editors to decide. I would add as well that such a hyperbolic description (i.e. "lunatic") would not be acceptable for the lead.   Redthoreau (talk)RT 05:19, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. And it certainly isn't something that should be put in unilaterally, without any warning on the talk page, by a person that is editing the page for the first time. Joshua Ingram 05:21, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ThuranX, since you took a bit to attack my motives, I figured I would respond. I was being as eccentric. It was a contrast to the views he often challenges like Mao, Chavez, and Marx - views held by those which Beck calls radicals in America. Most U.S. politicians promote the views of the founders, it's not overly bias toward Glenn Beck, perhaps communism. These views are not uncommon in America and not part of a lunatic fringe. In any case, we all have bias in one way or another, the goal is that we all work together to build the article and make sure content reflects Wikipedia policies. Liking Beck or disliking Beck is irrelevant when properly followed. Morphh (talk) 11:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whether or not Beck is x,y,z is absolutely not for editors to decide. It's a matter of reliable sources to decide. I've gone through similar fights on the pages for Geert Wilders and Avigdor Lieberman (both of which are so far right that they make the likes of Beck look like Jerry Garcia), and it seems to be a clear convention that hyperbolic criticism does not belong in the lead. The lead can state neutral facts about a person- including that he or she is controversial- but it can't prejudice the reader in certain ways. The Squicks (talk) 04:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, and the utility to use such hyperbolic language without attribution is limited at best... so case closed? --kizzle (talk) 07:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commentary w/r Beck

Examples for possible inclusion in BLP:

  1. As culled from "The Southern Avenger," Jack Hunter, in The American Conservative): Social-liberal/libertarian, economic semi-libertarian/conservative, and "paleo-conservative-in-foreign-policy (ie quasi-isolationist) guy Andrew Sullivan: "[...]I do think that Beck deserves some kudos for putting defense on the table as an issue for small government conservatives. There is no way the US can return to limited government without abandoning its neo-imperial ambitions and its middle class entitlements. The Pentagon, as that limited government president Eisenhower understood, is as much a big government program as Medicare or Social Security. Limited government Americans are rightly skeptical of a government that insists on a massive investment of time, money and human beings in open-ended nation-building in a place where these is no nation and no credible government. (link)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 01:16, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. The WaPo's Jason Horowitz: "[...]Beck has become arguably the most influential and incendiary conservative critic in America[... ... -- and is] the man some in the White House see as Public Enemy No. 1.." (link)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 22:22, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Lieberman says Beck is his long-time acquaintance. CBS video↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 15:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Jon Stewart: "The 5 o'clock to 6 o'clock emotional whirlwind and national group therapy session that is Glenn Beck? not even close to news!" (link)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 01:56, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Heads up

A topic related to Beck, at least in part, is currently being discussed here: Talk:Presidency of Barack Obama#Enemies List.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 14:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article is getting increasingly biased

Someone added the view appearance that there was a consensus to not add! John Asfukzenski (talk) 02:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Education

Can an Education subject be added to this page? Any person like Beck who is important to the general discourse of world events deserves a section relating that person's educational history. From what I can gather on the page he is a high school graduate and attended one class at Yale that he dropped out of, being admitted to Yale only on the recommendation of Joe Lieberman almost a decade after completing high school.

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