Talk:Theoretical physics

Einstein

The Michelson-Morley experiment disproved the existence of an ether before SR. The first paragraph's ending might be implying otherwise, as it is being stretched to make a point. (better example?)

-About the sentence "Sometimes it is the vision of mathematicians which provides the clue; e.g., the notion, due to Riemann and others, that space itself might be curved," doesn't this imply that Einstein got the "clue" of the "curvedness" of spacetime from Riemann and others? I don't think this is correct. -Ur

Also, I think the sentence "For example, while developing special relativity, Albert Einstein was concerned with the Lorentz transformation which left Maxwell's equations invariant, but was apparently uninterested in the Michelson-Morley experiment on Earth's drift through a luminiferous ether." is not a good example to "mathematical rigor." Einstein was following his physical intuition as to how the theory ought to behave, which certainly did not stem from any mathematical rigor. I think this sentence should be changed or reworded. I suggest a different example, perhaps from the work of Dirac, be given. 71.103.0.107 (talk) 08:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)Ur

Theories on main page & this page

There are two theories on the physics page that are not on the theoretical physics page: Time Cube and Variable Speed of Light. I have not read much on physics so I dunno how accurate the lists are in general. But they seem to be inconsistent enough to warrant changing.

Brianjd 06:01, 2004 Jun 16 (UTC)

Time Cube is semantic gobbledegook, not a physical theory. Variable c, or c-decay warrants addition though. lysdexia 01:21, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Additionally, String theory is both in Mainstream theories and Proposed theories list - one of the copied should probably be removed? As the Problems section on String threory page says "In this sense, string theory is still in a "larval stage": it is properly a mathematical theory but is not yet a physical theory" - so Proposed theories is probably the best section for it?

This page seems way too oriented to the debate involving crack pot theories. I really can't see a good reason for the Theoretical Physics page to be dominated by the sections "Mainstream theories", "Proposed Theories", and "Fringe Theories". 140.180.149.219 01:38, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I say string theory should be removed from the mainstream theories list. Although it is "mainstream" in that it is widely accepted by string theorists (some of whom are very respectable physicists), it's not mainstream as defined by the article. --Armaetin (talk) 08:26, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Poincaré

Hi, I think it would be also important to name Henri Poincaré among the most famous theoretical physicists. Essentially known as a great mathematician, the fact still remains that Poincaré contributions to physics are among the most important (Lorentz transformations and the premices of the special relativity theory as one of many examples). I'm just adding his name to the list. Ok? Doublestein 09:01, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Would it be reasonable to add Faraday too? Or is he more of an experimental physicist? The line between theoretical and experimental was much more blurry in those days. --Armaetin (talk) 08:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Boltzmann

I think that Ludwig Boltzmann must be on the list either. The founder of Kinetic theory must not be forgotten.

Karolis

Maxwell...

Edit explanation

I removed Creation science and Intelligent design from the fringe theory listing. They are not theories in the scientific sense; further, they are not relevant to theoretical physics, the topic of this article. — Knowledge Seeker দ 23:16, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

They're not theories in the "scientific sense", huh? What would be more "scientific": Darwinism [we come from monkeys] or the "big bang" [something came from nothing]? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.60.111.5 (talk • contribs)

No, they aren't. Yes, both evolution and the big bang theory are more scientific than creation science or intelligent design. Note that this does not necessarily make them more correct, but by invoking the supernatural both theories remain outside the scope of science. Also, to clarify: the big bang theory does not propose that the Universe arose out of nothingness; rather, it proposes that that all the matter and energy of the Universe was concentrated into an extremely hot and dense state which suddenly and rapidly expanded. What occurred before this (or if before has any meaning), how the Universe came to be in such a state, and why it began expansion are not known. — Knowledge Seeker দ 00:00, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, the story goes that God created something from nothing, and so based on your arguments, the big bang theory makes more sense than Creationism. The problem is people don't realize they are not opposing arguments; God could have created the universe by the big bang. Once Descartes removed reason from religion, people since have had this misconception of science is the oposite of religion. — dmyers4 March 28, 2006

Darwinism isn't a physical theory anyway. Evolution is in the biological sciences. --Armaetin (talk) 08:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

about Wilson-Sommerfeld's Quatumzation

I've read Modern Physics about Wilson-Sommerfeld's Quatumzation Theory. I don't understand:

1.Why did they consider that $\oint {Pdx}$?

P seems like a periodic function...

2.By1.,I think that was just correct with some limit of

Uncertainty Principle if P represents(ed) "Poition". I said

right? Or it obeyed U.P.?

3.Why does $\oint {Pdx}=nh$? Then we by this to solve A

(amplitude)? And however,by what theory? See please[1]

--HydrogenSu 15:49, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Ideas for improvement

The article clearly needs more content; I was thinking of things such as:

• Explain how theoretical physics is done.

• It's interaction with experimental physics and how a lack of experimental results can lead to many theories (some fringe) being invented to describe some aspect of physics (e.g. Superstring theory).

• How theories evolve over time to take account of experimental discoveries (link to the last point).

Just a few suggestions. Cheers. MP (talk) 17:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Freeman?

I'm as big a fan of the Half-Life games as the next guy, but does Gordon Freeman really deserve a spot on the list of prominent theoretical physicists?

--210.228.17.103 03:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe he does, being in that list is almost insulting. Fieldworld 19:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I've had enough of this. How many times is this user going to add him? It's just stupid.

I've removed Freeman, it's an insult to have a fictional character in a list of prominent theoretical physicists. Furthermore, in the game, the roles he plays are more of an experimental physicist. - JTS

Catergorization of theories

The categorization of theories leads something to be desired. As a professional theoretical physicist, let me weigh in briefly. The three categories that are here are fine, but there really isn't much to distinguish between "proposed" and "fringe". A decision must be made regarding what is wanted with the fringe category. There are several somewhat overlapping ways to go:

1.) Theories that are essentially discredited or baseless. This would include crackpot theories that deny quantum mechanics or relativity, i.e. contract known facts. Also, could include pseudoscience such as astrology.

2.) Things that are not manifestly illogical or contradictory of fact, but are not very well favored in a sociological sense. By this, I mean, what theoretical physicists don't work on very much but will not come down and say is just wrong. An example might be time travel; there are mathematical indications from general relativity that this is possible but not many theoretical physicists would say this is a wothwhile direction of research. A less extreme example could be Loop Quantum Gravity; most physicists who study quantum gravity favor string theory.

I suggest that "fringe" is reserved for things that are viewed as essentially discredited or baseless by the entire academic and scientific communities. So one should remove Grand Unified Theories and Loop Quantum Gravity from "fringe" since there is a sizable amount of academic work done on these two. While we're at it, remove Theory of Everything as well. With this understanding of "fringe", it may now be acceptable to add astrology.

Also, although I am a string theorist, I think I have to object to the labeling of string theory as a "Mainstream Theory". While many theoretical physicists work on it, it has yet to be accepted by the broader physics community. This is rightly so; it has yet to be experimentally verified. I would simply delete it under that heading for it already appears under "Proposed Theories".

-Joshua

If there is going to be no further discussion on the matter, I'll urge Joshua to implement some of these things. To me as well the part about the classificaiton of theories read horribly. If we can't provide an allusion to the uniqueness of the current theoretical situation(an abundance of theory, not much experiment), I see no reason for the classification of theories in this article particularly

I agree with Joshua. String theory should not be considered a mainstream theory because of its lack of experimental verification. If experimental evidence should appear, and if string theory gains acceptance from many other physicists, then it would fall under then mainstream theory category. --Armaetin (talk) 08:34, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

A question on how the word physical thoery is defined.

In the article, the word physical thoery is defined as such: A physical theory is a model of physical events and cannot be proven from basic axioms. How are the words physical events being defined? I just assumed that it ment any event that takes place with anything that is composed of matter. If it wouldn't be too much do you think you could add a definition for physcial events so to avoid confusion.

71.126.110.83 22:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC) Tom Kutzmon

Removed two theories from the mainstream list.

I removed "Particle Cosmology" and "Broken String theory GUT" from the "mainstream theories" list. We don't have articles for either of them (so far as I can tell, the former has to do with particle physics in the very early universe; if we have it under another name, it should be added back), and as for the latter, both 'String theory' and 'Grand unified theory' are already in the 'proposed' section. grendel|khan 04:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Cut out the Half-Life crap

There is at least one user, User:IMNTU, who insists on continually vandalizing this page by adding content on Gordon Freeman, the fictional hero of Half-Life. This now includes throwing in the word "Portal"(the name of a new game connected to Half-Life) at more or less random points in the text. There may be an argument to make that the character Gordon Freeman deserves some mention, perhaps in a "Popular Culture" section or something. But one can't list him as a famous physicist since this implies that he is a real person. Further any mention of the game "Portal", particularly in the random way in which it has been done recently, is irrelevent and likely vandalism. Please refrain from adding this kind of material and other editors please keep an eye out for these bad edits. If you think you have a good reason for adding this material, please make your case on the talk page first. Joshua Davis 17:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Not derivable from axioms?

The Overview sections say that theoretical physics cannot be derived from axioms. Aren't axioms the whole point? From Axiom: "Outside logic and mathematics, the term "axiom" is used loosely for any established principle of some field." Isn't the point of theoretical physics to take accepted principles and derive results from them? The only difference between mathematics and theoretical physics is that in physics, the axioms used are based on observed physical reality.--Loodog (talk) 15:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone edited the article

Was looking this up on google and when I got here all the article is saying is "fart".

Like what the hell?

Edit: I edited the article to the normal content of Theoretical physics —Preceding unsigned comment added by Briambo (talk • contribs) 16:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Fringe vs. Proposed: an artificial distinction?

I don't see what the difference between fringe theories and proposed theories is supposed to be, especially considering the overlap between the two on the page.--Loodog (talk) 19:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Change proposal

Hi to everyone!
I would like to propose to change in the first sentence of the wikipedia article... "natural world" in "experience".
And hyperlink experience.
Anyone against it?
Old:

Theoretical physics employs mathematical models and abstractions of physics in an attempt to explain experimental data taken of the natural world..

New proposal

Theoretical physics employs mathematical models and abstractions of physics in an attempt to explain experimental data taken of experience

Maurice Carbonaro (talk) 12:43, 1 December 2008 (UTC)