Talk:Moonsund operation

Military history: Baltic states / Russian & Soviet / World War II Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Associated task forces:
/
	Baltic states military history task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	World War II task force

Estonia Start‑class Low‑importance

Moonsund operation is part of WikiProject Estonia, a project to maintain and expand Estonia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.EstoniaWikipedia:WikiProject EstoniaTemplate:WikiProject EstoniaEstonia

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

To-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : WikiProject Estonia/Missing articles
Assess : Rate each tagged article by quality and importance to the WikiProject if it has not been done. (See Category:Unassessed Estonia articles)
Infobox : Add infoboxes to articles without it
Maintain : Portal:Estonia
Photo : Upload and/or add a photo to articles without it (See Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Estonia)
Stubs : Add info to stub-articles and check for start-class.

Title

Moonsund is more commonly used in English than Moonzund, thus I propose moving the page appropriately. Thoughts? Martintg (talk) 01:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Other articles on similar operations have used the Russian transliteration where there is no established English name for the operation; whether there's an English name for the place or not hasn't been relevant. As I doubt there is any tradition of calling this operation by a particular English name, I'd argue to keep 'Moonzund'.Esdrasbarnevelt (talk) 12:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Esdrasbarnevelt. The Soviet historical name is the one which 99% of people will be searching for. Buckshot06 (talk) 10:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed atrocities

The following comment was removed by a user:

The Russians in particular gained a reputation for not taking prisoners, shooting them out of hand or even torturing captives to death. The fighting on Saaremaa is a grim example , it is not known whether any Germans were taken prisoner at all. For instance, an officer was hung from a nearby road sign, a few Germans who just missed the last evacuation were forced to stand in the icy Baltic sea for hours, then pulled ashore and shot.^[1] Civilians were also brutally murdered.^[2]

I consider this paragraph relevant. While not intending to clear the German forces of their various crimes, it is now generally accepted that Russian forces frequently shot or tortured captured Germans. German excesses are well known and documented, whereas Allied excesses are little known. These examples are mentioned to try to balance the black/white picture. They are documented, and such examples figure in several stories and anecdotes written by German soldiers.

I therefore suggest that this paragraph should be reinstated. Falk74 (talk) 10:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would exercise caution here - why does the paragraph state that russian soldiers "in particular" gained a reputation for brutality? If the German excesses are "well known", why should the Soviet forces be portrayed as having a brutal reputation "in particular"?

Hanging someone from a road sign wasn't exactly excessive by the standards of the Wehrmacht - a sadly common enough war crime. Esdrasbarnevelt (talk) 11:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^ Halten bis zum letzen Mann..
^ Verbrechen an der Wehrmacht, p.343

[1] Halten bis zum letzen Mann..

[2] Verbrechen an der Wehrmacht, p.343

[1]

[2]