Talk:Tomorrow Never Knows

Inspiration

The inspiration section of the article references narcotics use with the phrase "tripping on LSD." This is a slang expression and should describe the mental state of the musicians in more precise language.

Mixes

When the Revolver LP first went into production, the mix for the song 'Tomorrow Never Knows' used was mix 9. After the Beatles had heard the LP for the first time they all agreed that the 'Tomorrow Never Knows' mix was not sufficient and that it had to change. Therefore production ceased whilst the song was remixed so that everybody was happy before creating a new master plate and continuing production. It is believed that production of the 'mix 9' copies of Revolver only went on for an afternoon before production ceased. The way to tell if your copy has the alternative mix or not is to look at the stamped matrix number in the dead-wax of side 2. If your copy has XEX 606-1 then congratulations! Approximately 99% of copies have either 606-2 or 606-3.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/beatlesmuseum/museum/revolver606.html

Authorship of tีhe song

What sense does it make to claim the song was written 'entirely' by John Lennon, then to also say that is full of tape loops created by Paul McCartney? Sounds like a collaboration on the sound material to me...--feline1 10:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it's fairly understood that when people talk about someone "writing" a song they are talking about the lyrics of a song. The work that Paul McCartney did on the song sounds more like production and thus he would perhaps be credited as a producer. It was often the case, especially with the Beatles later work that either Paul or John would write the lyrics alone, and then perform the song together, though the style of the song was usually dictated by the one or the other who wrote the lyrics. GIR 17:41, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I think you'll find that when people (including copyright lawyers) talk about the writing of a song they mean, at a bare minimum, who wrote the chord progression, melodies, lyrics, and basic rhythm/time signature. Sinthe song in question has music concrete elements (ie the musical composition itself consists of audio from tape manipulated recordings, rather than notes playing on instruments), then this is part of the compositional process. --feline1 18:03, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Taxman solo

"Revolution in the Head" by Ian MacDonald, a book that is widely accepted as reliable, states that it is in fact the Taxman guitar solo that can be heard backwards in Tomorrow Never Knows, however slowed down and cut to pieces. The last work on both songs was made on April 22, 1966. 81.216.34.170 16:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC) (svwiki: MellonCollie)

I agree. "Taxman" was started on April 20 and so the solo could have been recorded and then spliced and dropped into "Tomorrow Never Knows" on the April 22 session. I think the statement in the article should be deleted unless someone has something categorical to say it's not as per "Taxman". MegdalePlace 20:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Uh oh - where'd the article go?

I just tried to change the first paragraph because it seemed too POV, but now the whole article excluding the lead and infobox has vanished - it still appears in the edit box though. I have no idea how to fix this - somebody please help! I'm really sorry. Shrub of power 23:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it yesterday, but didn't see this message then. The cause was an invalid closing REF tag. It was <REF/> when it should have been </REF>. <REF/> is valid XML syntax, it's an empty REF tag. But it's not a closing tag, and so the previous <REF> tag was unclosed. That put all the rest of the article content in the REF tag, which is why the article text disappeared. John Cardinal 13:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Shrub of power 15:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

B-class

I have rated this as a B-class article, as it deserves it. I have added some books as references, and have moved a few paragraphs about to make it clearer. egde 17:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

MacDonald cite removal

Someone removed the Ian MacDonald citation in the "tape loops" section. In the current (6/1/2007) version, most of those bullets are lifted word-for-word from the MacDonald book. Without the citation, they qualify as plagiarism. The cite should be restored by whoever removed it. John Cardinal 03:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Tape loops

According to Mark Lewisohn(1988). The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions. Hamlyn Publishing Group. ISBN 0-600-55784-7 the "seagull-like noise" is a tape loop of a distorted guitar - it says nothing about McCartney shouting. Richerman 23:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

How would Lewisohn know? McCartney recorded them at home and took them to the studio, and says so in Barry Miles' book, and on The Anthology DVD. --andreasegde 07:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

BTW, why is this article not a GA? A couple of references more and it'd be a cinch, as they say across the water... --andreasegde 07:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Referencing some quality sources when making technical assertions about The Beatles is crucial. Besides the classic Lewisohn book, the Ryan & Kehew book "Recording the Beatles" is a must.

It's important to understand why Norman Smith was no longer the Beatles engineer and also to understand the regimented EMI hierarchy (which explains why it's hardly likely that Geoff Emerick was dissecting on a Leslie cabinet on his first Beatles' song). Mc3067 (talk) 03:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

GA

I have nominated it for a GA review. I will watch the reviewing list, and take out unreferenced edits shortly before it gets reviewed. --andreasegde 21:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

---

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Nice work, all... Zeng8r 13:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

We thank you kindly. --andreasegde 12:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure; it's a good read. The only reason for the neutral stability rating, btw, was that there has been a recent wave of improvements, and the changes just might catch the eye of someone who wants to go in a different direction. Obviously, tho, there is no current editing dispute, and the article clearly meets all the other GA criteria. Zeng8r 13:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

After I had added a few things I found in books, I also found really interesting. It is now my favourite Beatles' track. BTW, the bit about the rope made me laugh a lot. Imagine Lennon swinging on a rope around a microphone... :) --andreasegde 19:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

album cover removal

I don't pretend to be an expert on wikipedia's convoluted image use policies, but isn't the displaying of an album cover in an article about a song that's on that album considered a textbook example of "fair use"? If not, there are a whole lot more music articles that need "fixing"... Zeng8r (talk) 02:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Yup, and they're coming to get 'em all. I wonder if they're targeting certain groups, because Pete Best, Cynthia Lennon and Michael McCartney have all lost (or about to lose) photos. --andreasegde (talk) 14:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Citation issues

John Lennon wrote the song in January 1966, closely adapted from the book The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert, and Ralph Metzner, which they based on, and quoted from, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, with the understanding that the "ego death" experienced under the influence of LSD and other psychedelic drugs is essentially similar to the dying process and requires similar guidance.[2][3]

While arguably true, refs 2 and 3 do not seem to support this paragraph. Viriditas (talk)

The citations supporting the Beatles having raised legal questions regarding the Chemical Brothers' "Setting Sun" don't to support it as far as I can see, and I've never heard this anywhere else. Whilst the Beatles do strictly prohibit the sampling of their music, it should be pretty clear to anyone that "Setting Sun" doesn't sample "Tomorrow Never Knows": it is clearly inspired by the Beatles track, yes, but the Beatles have let far more obvious "homages" slide without legal objections ("Start!" by the Jam, "Pass it On" by the Coral). Can anyone find another source to support this? Eddie Robson (talk) 17:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The availability of Engineer Norman Smith

I removed the sentence "(Smith was not available as he was working on tracks for Pink Floyd).[6] " from the Recording section. While the Spitz citation is correct, Spitz did not check his facts. There is overwhelming evidence that Norman Smith's involvement with Pink Floyd did not begin until 1967, long after 'Tomorrow Never Knows' and the 'Revolver' album were released. For more information, see Mason, Nick. (2004) Inside Out: A Personal History of Pink Floyd, Phoenix publishers, Great Britain. Povey, Glenn. (2007) echoes - the complete history of Pink Floyd, Mind Head publishing, Great Britain. John Cavanagh (2003) The Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Continuum International publishing. Or just about any book ever published on the subject of Pink Floyd.