Talk:Fatwa

More on Violent Examples

This entry is a bit strange and conflicted, I am afraid. The article begins by admonishing that the extreme fatawa we have heard so much about are anomalous and "Such fatwas, however, have caught the attention of the western media and become widely renowned, especially among critics of Islam." This properly points out that the western media has likely gone overboard with reporting such things (they go overboard on most everything, e.g., the Michael Jackson trial). The latter part of this sentence seems odd - "critics of Islam"? Sounds rather defensive. Otherwise, perhaps an explanation, with examples, of how the critics of Islam have used the extreme examples of fatawa is in order; that would be relevant to a general understanding of fatwa.

The aim of the article should be to give curious, uninformed people (such as myself) a balanced description of fatwa and the issues surrounding them; it seems to me to fail to do that. I found the section describing how the various flavours of Islam sometimes do not agree on fatawa, together with the cases in which one fatwa might take precedence over another, to be most illuminating.

On the other hand, the entry goes on to list only examples of extreme, violent fatawa, including that of Mr. Bin Laden, together with a description of all the various reasons why Mr. Bin Ladin issued his fatwa. Come now, this is rather wandering off course, is it not? It starts to seem like propaganda, I am afraid; why is Mr. Bin Ladin's (& Co.) fatwa, widely recognized as extreme and deviant, even relevant here? (It is relevant on the Wiki page pertaining to Mr. Bin Ladin, to be sure.) The article gives most attention to the extreme/deviant fatwa, but complains about that sort of attention in its introduction. Surely in the history of Islam there must be more important fatawa than that of Mr. Bin Ladin's?

Perhaps the entry could have a section listing examples of normal fatawa, a section listing examples of fatawa important to the history of Islam, and another section listing extreme or extraordinary fatawa.

Pronunciation

The Arabic at the beginning reads [fata:wa:] with ya read as long [a:] (I forget what that's called). But this is commonly seen as fatwah, suggesting to me it's singular [fatwah] (with usually silent [h]) and the form given here looks like a broken plural.

I haven't got access to an Arabic dictionary and can't find anything reliable on the Web for now. Can someone more skilled in Arabic please check? Gritchka 14:07 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

"ya" as long a is called "alif maqsura".--KASchmidt 05:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Violent fatwas

I understand the reasoning that including several death- and war-related fatwas gives a skewed impression. Nevertheless, I hate to delete information that many people would find useful and important. What about restoring the links, and adding something in the article that would put them in context, along these lines: "A fatwa can call for the death of a named individual, or some similar act. Although these are very rare (compared with the vast majority of fatwas, which address more pedestrian subjects), they generally attract a disproportionate amount of public attention." Would that be accurate? JamesMLane 22:17, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Removed part of sentence

Removed the "though the fatwa has not been lifted by Dar-al-Islam" part.

Dar-al-Islam is an extremely generic term, refering to the totality of lands where Islam is dominant, reminiscient of the term Christendom. The fatwa was issued by Khomeini and Khomeini alone, in an extended sense post-revolutionary Iran can also be viewed to be an caretaker of that fatwa.

"Dar-al-Islam" on the other hand can not lift or impose fatwas, only individual clerics can. Islamic clerics around the world have quite different views on many issues. It is hence non-sense to say that a certain cleric imposed a certain fatwa, and that "dar-al-islam" has never lifted it.

POV

The two examples are not exactly representative of what a fatwa is and really sends the wrong impression I believe. gren 08:43, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

More POV

We have two fatwa examples, both of which are "kill this person". Is this the usual tone of a fatwa? I have seen/heard of others that seemed to have a political manuevering aspect to them, cleric A denouncing public persona B.

Are fatwas always big sweeping proclamations? Are they always "thou shalts"? Are there more mundane fatwas in the spirit of "children should remain silent while daddy is trying to pay his bills on AOL"? If fatwas are sometimes less politically and socially charged, then one of these would be a better illustration of fatwa.

If, instead, they are generally a tool of politics, then these might have to suffice.

But the litany of persecution that Rushdie et al endured probably belongs elsewhere. Williamv1138 15:33, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

No, it is not at all the usual tone of a fatwa; the vast, vast majority of them are uninteresting proclamations like thou shalt pay thy employees promptly and thou shalt not charge interest even to unbelievers. The death sentences and declarations of war just tend to get more attention in Anglophone media, that's all. —Charles P. (Mirv) 15:50, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Since it has been repeatedly pointed out that the two examples given were not at all representative and writing so much about them here produces a profoundly distorted picture of what a fatwa is, I trimmed both drastically and moved the details to the articles on Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasrin. I also removed category:Freedom of expression, because it's not applicable to the broad subject, but only to a few specific examples. —Charles P. (Mirv) 23:11, 18 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed "most infamous" to "best known", as the former seems rather POV, accurate as it may be. --jpgordon ∇∆∇∆ 02:42, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sick

This article makes me sick. CoolGuy 03:40, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

stop the madness

How can we keep the scope of this article reasonable? Every time a "kill this person" fatwa hits the news, someone will want to add it here, as in the following text:

Mamuda Aliyu Shinkafi, the deputy governor of Zamfara state in Nigeria, issued a fatwa in November 2002 calling for the death of journalist Isioma Daniel for comments suggesting that Muhammad may have chosen a wife from one of the Miss World contest. [1] Other Muslim authorities have questioned the validity of the fatwa. [2]

. . .but this is a terrible way to write an informative article on the general topic, and (as has been repeatedly pointed out) creates a highly skewed picture. Perhaps a list of famous fatwas or somesuch is necessary? —Charles P. (Mirv) 14:21, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm the someone!

I think a list of famous fatwas is a good idea: it leaves this entry to discuss the generalities of fatwas, and another page can cover the nitty-gritty. Would you be able to do the honours? (I'm relatively new at this, so I'd rather someone more experienced with wiki code do this).

On a side note, I definitely think the fatwa about Isioma is noteworthy, as the journalist in question has moved to Norway as a result.

Thanks, Andjam 15:46, 10 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]