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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk | contribs) at 18:52, 30 November 2024 (More detail to my comment.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This information is not to be archived. It is being preserved to address future queries about article content and layout. FYI - wolf

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Trimmed list

The list is currently limited to a soft limit of around 100 films. Films cut from the list will be maintained here in the event that we need to re-add one or in case the decision is taken to extend the list at some point. Betty Logan (talk)

Trimmed list
Title Year Production budget (millions) Gross (millions) Estimated loss (millions) Ref
Nominal Adjusted for inflation [nb 1]
The Adventures of Baron Munchausen 1988 $46.6 $8.1 $38.5 $99 [# 1]
Alice Through the Looking Glass 2016 $170 $299.5 $70+ $89+ [# 2]
Aloha 2015 $37 $26.3 $65 $84 [# 3]
Babylon 2022 $80 $63.4 $87.4 $91 [# 4]
Battleship 2012 $209 $303 $58 $77 [# 5]
Blade Runner 2049 2017 $150–185 $260.5 $80 $99 [# 6]
The Bonfire of the Vanities 1990 $47 $15.7 $31 $73 [# 7]
Catwoman 2004 $100 $82.1 $52.9 $85 [# 8]
Conan the Barbarian 2011 $90 $48.8 $60 $81 [# 9]
The Cotton Club 1984 $47 $25.9 $32.1 $94 [# 10]
Devotion 2022 $90 $21.8 $89 $93 [# 11]
Doctor Dolittle 1967 $17 $9 $10.8 $99 [# 12]
Ender's Game 2013 $110 $125.5 $68 $89 [# 13]
The Finest Hours 2016 $70–80 $52.1 $75 $95 [# 14]
Geostorm 2017 $120 $221.6 $71.6 $89 [# 15]
Ghostbusters 2016 $144 $229.1 $75 $95 [# 16]
Gods and Generals 2003 $55–60 $12.9 $47.1 $78 [# 17]
The Great Wall 2016 $150 $332 $75 $95 [# 18]
Happy Feet Two 2011 $135 $158 $65 $88 [# 19]
Hello, Dolly! 1969 $25.3 $33.2 $10 $83 [# 20]
Honky Tonk Freeway 1981 $24 $2 $22 $74 [# 21]
The Huntsman: Winter's War 2016 $115 $165 $75 $95 [# 22]
Justice League 2017 $300 $657.9 $60 $75 [# 23]
Land of the Lost 2009 $100 $68.8 $64 $91 [# 24]
The Last Castle 2001 $72 $27.6 $44.4 $76 [# 25]
Legends of Oz: Dorothy's Return 2014 $70 $20.1 $71 $91 [# 26]
Live by Night 2016 $65 $22.3 $75 $95 [# 27]
The Lovely Bones 2009 $65 $93.6 $58 $82 [# 28]
Lucky You 2007 $55 $8.4 $61 $90 [# 29]
Mr. Peabody & Sherman 2014 $145 $275.7 $57 $73 [# 30]
The New Mutants 2020 $67–80 $49.2 $84 $99 [# 31]
Nine 2009 $80 $54 $57 $81 [# 32]
The Nutcracker and the Four Realms 2018 $120 $173.9 $65.8 $80 [# 33]
One from the Heart 1982 $26 $0.6 $25.4 $80 [# 34]
Pixels 2015 $88 $244.9 $75 $96 [# 35]
Power Rangers 2017 $100 $142.3 $76 $94 [# 36]
Quest for Camelot 1998 $40 $38.2 $40 $75 [# 37]
Revolution 1985 $28 $0.4 $27.6 $78 [# 38]
Rollerball 2002 $70 $25.9 $54 $91 [# 39]
Rush Hour 3 2007 $140 $258 $59 $87 [# 40]
Snake Eyes 2021 $88–110 $40.1 $88 $99 [# 41]
Solo: A Star Wars Story 2018 $250 $393.2 $76.9 $93 [# 42]
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows 2016 $135 $245.6 $75 $95 [# 43]

Other flops with unknown losses

Filmsite.org

Betty Logan (talk)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part and The Lego Ninjago Movie

they were both considered box office disappointments 2605:B100:505:1958:E51D:57DC:8AEC:69F (talk) 13:12, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither have estimated loss numbers to know where they would fall here. Given their box office and production budgets reported, they likely would be modest losses and not high enough to include here. Just being a box office disappointment is not a basis to include here, we need numbers to support that. Masem (t) 14:01, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aardman’s Early Man

Should that movie be added on the list 205.172.121.203 (talk) 18:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any sources that give us a box office bomb claim and a loss estimate? Just being poorly performing is not equal to being a bomb. — Masem (t) 19:40, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Borderlands

Had a budget of 110 million and has currently grossed 20 million. 90 million loss. 2603:8081:2400:1C4:919F:5FD6:2C85:FCAF (talk) 00:26, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which is too low to be included on this table (A min of $95M loss is required). Now, I know that $110M is production budget only, so if a reliable source gives a number that incldues marketing and promotion to push the loss over $95m, then we can include. Masem (t) 00:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to a Forbes article that sites Variety and The Numbers, the film had a production budget of $115 million and a marketing and distribution budget of $30 million, and earned $30.9 million domestically and internationally. This would put losses at $114.1 million, which should be enough for this list. TotesNeato (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 05:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a Forbes Contributor, and thus not considered a reliable source. Masem (t) 12:08, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For what it is worth, we have a Variety source that has $110M + $30M marketing from August [1], and BoxOfficeMojo and TheNumbers has it only with $31M box office take [2]. And given previous sources that said this was clearly on its way to be a box office bomb, the $109M does qualify it to be included. --Masem (t) 12:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It should be safe to include it now. It is officially out of cinemas to my knowledge, and it is still being debated for the worst films of all time list. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 03:44, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While many box office bombs are poorly received movies, we should be careful to assume that any poorly received movie is likely to be a box office bomb. --Masem (t) 04:23, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is already out of cinemas and lost over $100 million. I simply stated that it currently is being debated for the worst films of all time list. However, I do understand your point. Many poorly received films are financial successes. Just look at the Jurassic Park and Jaws franchises after Spielberg left, The Emoji Movie, and the Twisted Childhood cinematic universe. Jaws: The Revenge and Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey are even considered to be some of the worst films ever made, but were financial successes. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 18:47, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uglydolls 2019

It didn’t surpass its $45-53 million budget 2605:B100:530:CFD1:64AE:9EC4:30FF:2811 (talk) 13:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are limiting this list to losses greater than $95m, so this likely is far too low to include even if marketing costs are included. Masem (t) 13:43, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Playmobil the movie

Add that to the list 205.172.121.203 (talk) 22:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It lost the most money 70.48.81.250 (talk) 01:33, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With a budget at the upper end estimate of $75m, it is very unlikely that total losses will be greater than the $100M needed to be included on this list. Masem (t) 01:35, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Marvels actually lost 300M

https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2024/9/30/the-marvels-actual-budget-leaks-378m-nearly-300m-in-losses#:~:text=The%20figure%20is%20now%20at,by%20a%20whopping%20%24100M.

The Marvels' real budget has been disclosed and was 378M. Meaning it lost 300M. 93.66.187.27 (talk) 18:09, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jordan Ruimy's personal blog is not a reliable source. Mike Allen 21:14, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As well as not being a reliable source, World of Reel has also ignored the tax rebate of around $70 million, so the net cost wound up being $308 million if World of Reel's gross figure is correct. This is why reliable sources are necessary to interpret tax filings. Betty Logan (talk) 22:32, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joker: Folie a Deux

Will this be added soon? It’s been $40 million opening weekend 70.48.81.250 (talk) 01:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Better to wait and let its theatrical run play out, we don't need to add it as fast as possible. Harryhenry1 (talk) 05:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that it's only currently a $86m loss after the first weekend, it's a good sign it will not be larger enough to be on this list. — Masem (t) 14:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. These movies don’t even have time to be fully released longer than a few days before y’all want them to be added to this list. Mike Allen 15:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The figures for The Marvels are wildly off

For starters, the budget was at least $307.4 million.

It strikes me as mathematically impossible that "The Marvels", with a significantly higher budget than "The Lone Ranger" and "John Carter", while simultaneously taking significantly LOWER box office than either film, still somehow lost less money than those two.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2024/10/03/disney-lost-nearly-a-third-of-a-billion-dollars-on-two-marvel-movies/

The latest financial statements for Warbird [The Marvels] are for the year-ending September 30, 2023, which is just over a month before the movie was released so they give an almost complete picture of its costs. They show that since the company was founded in 2020, it spent a total of $374 million (£307.85 million). Its net spending was reduced to $307.4 million by a $66.6 million (£54.9 million) reimbursement from the UK government and the financial statements say that its cost was "in line with the production budget." Pootboy (talk) 23:09, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should first point out that the chart does not show The Marvels losing "less money" than either of John Carter or The Lone Ranger. According to the sources The Marvels lost $237 million, more than any other film on the chart. Secondly, we don't actually know how much any of these films have made, there are varying estimates for John Carter and The Lone Ranger based on a range of factors, including ancillary revenues, and hidden costs such as marketing. Finally, the estimate for The Marvels is based on a slightly older cost estimate, so there is a solid argument that the film lost $30–40 million more than what is stated in the chart, but it is beyond our remit as editors to correct the figures when it is unclear how these costs where calculated in the first place. Sometimes loss estimates are revised at a later point—the losses for John Carter were downgraded due to its strong performance on home video. If you know of any reliable sources that offer a more up-to-date loss calculation for The Marvels then as always we will consider them. Betty Logan (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The much more recent, and much more thorough Forbes article is quite clear in how they calculated the budget, based on public tax documents. What possible argument could be made to not adjust, at the very least, the budget column? Pootboy (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On top of that, the Deadline articule for for the existing figures has offers NO external sources whatsoever, and are spit-ball figures. A big hint being that each graph says "SOURCE: DEADLINE ESTIMATES" at the bottom.
https://deadline.com/2024/05/biggest-box-office-bombs-2023-lowest-grossing-movies-1235902825/ Pootboy (talk) 21:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So yes I do have a more reliable source, the one I cited above.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2024/10/03/disney-lost-nearly-a-third-of-a-billion-dollars-on-two-marvel-movies/ Pootboy (talk) 21:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've edited the budget to relfect the more recent analysis. I don't know how to properly cite the source, but I did what I could, hopefully somebody won't mind helping me with that. Pootboy (talk) 21:51, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALL loss figures are estimates, and Forbes is no exception. Whilst Forbes is accurate for the budget (because this is sourced from HMRC) Forbes's loss figure is an estimate just like Deadline's. Forbes notes that Disney lost $296 million on The Marvels and Ant-Man, with Ant-Man accounting for $92 million of that loss. Based on this The Marvels lost $204 million—which is $33 million less than Deadline's figure. Part of the reason for the discrepancy is that Forbes makes no attempt to factor in marketing costs or home video revenue. As for the budget, the one listed here is the one used by Deadline in their calculation, so if we changed the budget here then it would be inconsistent with the loss figure that is based on it! We have a separate article for budgets at List of most expensive films where you will see I have updated the budget for The Marvels, but the primary purpose of this article is to document box-office losses, not budgets. We could add a note or something pointing this out, but ultimately you are asking us to undertake original research to correct out-of-date figures and Wikipedia simply doesn't work in that way. Betty Logan (talk) 00:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why isn't Megalopolis there?

Well Joker 2 is, and it is still running, megalopolis also flopped I guess? 31.45.192.27 (talk) 15:57, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John Carter

Can I change the second source of expected loss (upper-bound) for John Carter (200 million dollar loss)? Because that source was written when the movie was still in theaters and usually the movies are added when their theatrical run is over. I suggest to put Filmsite source, which extimated a 122 million dollar loss, what do you think? Filippo.g204 (talk) 16:08, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Filmsite is no longer a reliable source because it started using Wikipedia as a source (see Talk:List_of_biggest_box-office_bombs/Archive_3#Problem_with_Filmsite). Ultimately it should be completely phased out. The fact is, only Disney knows how much John Carter lost and all the others are estimates. It's true they projected a $200 million write-down whilst it was still playing, but it should remain in the article as the only loss figure from Disney itself, unless Disney revises the figure. The current $110–200 million range we have down for it is probably representative of the money it lost. It might be at the lower end of that range i.e. 120, 130 million, but since Disney porbbaly purposefully over-estimated its write-down it gives us an authentic upper-bound loss figure, as opposed to just another estimate. Betty Logan (talk) 05:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am talking about this archived source of Filmsite: https://web.archive.org/web/20171222072234/http://www.filmsite.org/greatestflops.html (I forgot to say that before). Could it still be used to take down the upper-bound loss to 122 million dollars?
PS: Sorry for the last IP reply, I thought I was still logged in. Filippo.g204 (talk) 09:01, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well no, because it's not the upper-bound, Disney's write-down is. The upper-bound is the highest cited figure, which is $200 million. In any case, we are trying to phase out Filmsite because it is not longer a reliable source per WP:CIRCULAR. Betty Logan (talk) 11:53, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eight Crazy Nights

It had lost an approximate at lowest $10.5 million to up to $44.6 million. 2605:B100:532:98F1:8108:7A75:3A2E:29E (talk) 17:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The minimum limit for this table is currently around $95million, so this will not make it Masem (t) 18:06, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


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