Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Wikipedia talk:Vital articles

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Helsabt (talk | contribs) at 15:14, 15 April 2023 (OneClickArchiver updating counter.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconVital Articles
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Vital Articles, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of vital articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and work together to increase the quality of Wikipedia's essential articles.Vital ArticlesWikipedia:WikiProject Vital ArticlesTemplate:WikiProject Vital ArticlesVital Articles articles
General Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 Level 5
Level 5 Subpages

People History and geography Society STEM

Introduction

The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.

Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:

  1. Any discussion must run at least two weeks before being closed
  2. Any discussion must have at least four total votes before being closed
  3. Any article with at least 55% support for inclusion will be retained
  4. Any article with at least 55% opposition for inclusion will be removed
  • 14 days ago: 02:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Why are these rules different from Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles#Introduction? Here 3:2, 4:3 or 5:4 votes cause change, whereas there 2/3rd votes are required.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:08, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Level 5 should be aligned with Level 3/4 (which seem the same). Many of these discussions are going on too long and the debate is too disjointed. The list is also incredibly long and the auto-archiving should be set at circa 90 days (max). Also, should an entry on this list not require a notice to be left on the talk page of the article in question? It might help participation. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 11:23, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Basketball adds and removals

Add Bob McAdoo

NOT PASSED
not enough support, and discussion stale for weeks now. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:34, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I admit I am being a bit parochial, but this is a serious nom.

Support
  1. 2x scoring champ, MVP and 2x NBA Champ who is the last player to average 30/15 for an NBA season. This shifts from a 21st century subject to a 1970s beast.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. McAdoo was very successful in the NBA (MVP, 2 time champion, three time scoring leader, NBA 75th Anniversary Team), the EuroLeague (2 time champion, scoring leader, final four MVP, 50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors), Italy (2 time champion, 1 time cup winner) and college (College Hall of Fame) while also being in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. I don't agree with remove Pau Gasol to fit McAdoo but he does have a much more overall significant career that Robert Parish. Alvaldi (talk) 20:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Bobby Mac is among the Top 60 NBA players but not the Top 60 most vital basketball (inc. college, int'l, WNBA, etc.) players pbp 19:48, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. czar 20:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
  • McAdoo was named to both the NBA 75th Anniversary Team and one of the 50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors as well as being in the College Basketball Hall of Fame so he has a fairly decent case. I just don't agree with removing Pau Gasol in favor of him. Another American player, such as Robert Parish, might be a better target for replacement. Alvaldi (talk) 20:59, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vs. Parish, hmm. I think McAdoo was the better player (Parish never 1st team All-NBA, never MVP, never even led the league in anything), but Parish longevity and longevity as a starter have some value. Not sure I want to make the rm Parish nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @TonyTheTiger: Make the case for why McAdoo is more vital than Jokic. pbp 23:06, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • User:Purplebackpackonthetrail At the current point of his career, Jokic has not eclipsed McAdoo. I do expect that 3-5 years from now, he may. Here are my differences:
      1. Looking at Basketballreference.com has Jokic at a 46.5% HOF probability based on current career accomplishments, whereas McAdoo ended at 98.6%. I think Jokic just needs a few of additional above average seasons to get there.
      2. Jokic has 2 MVPs to McAdoo's 1. However, people forget how great McAdoos best years were. Through 7 seasons McAdoo's 4 best season were each better than Jokic's in terms of win shares (similarity scores at BR.com on Jokic page). Nikola Jokić: [15.6, 15.2, 11.8, 10.7, 9.8, 9.7, 6.7] McAdoo [17.8, 15.3, 12.3, 10.9, 9.6, 5.8, 3.8]. So through his first 7 seasons Jokic is behind McAdoo.
      3. McAdoo has 2 championships although McAdoo won his championships in his 10th & 13th seasons.
      4. McAdoo was 50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors and a College Hall of Fame player.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:37, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • P.S. I think McAdoo is one of the small market stars who would be viewed differently by history if he had played in an era with national level sports reporting like CNN and ESPN popularized in the 1980s and fantasy sports to necessitate the fair analysis of talent. No young person today would believe his first 7 years outranking Jokic's statistically (due to the MVP count).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Pau Gasol

NOT PASSED
not enough support, and discussion stale for two months now. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Support
  1. Not an the 75th Anniversary team. Gasol was never great enough to be first team all-NBA let alone be a league MVP. Only once was he even at an AS Game starter level, whereas at his peak McAdoo started 3 in a row. Just not a high enough peak to keep McAdoo off the list.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. The argument is way too American/NBA-centric in my opinion as Gasol is one of the greatest European players of all time and was a major player on the international stage. A three-time Olympic medalist, FIBA World Cup winner and MVP, three-time FIBA EuroBasket winner and MVP and seven-time FIBA EuroBasket medalist. He also won eight major individual European awards during his career. Outside of the international stage, he was a three time Liga ACB winner in his four seasons in the league and the 2001 Liga ACB finals MVP. He was also the second best player on three straight NBA finals team where he won two championships. Alvaldi (talk) 08:44, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Spain is a big basketball country and we need at least one Spanish basketball player on this list. pbp 13:55, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. czar 20:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Nikola Jokic

NOT PASSED
not enough support, and discussion stale for two months now. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nikola Jokic won the last two MVPs. Robert Parish never won the MVP award and, other than having played the most games, has a very weak case for being on here. pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. I have split your Parish/Jokic nomination, because I would rather see Parish replaced by McAdoo (above), 13-time WNBA All-Star Sue Bird or 2-time WNBA MVP Elena Delle Donne until Jokic either wins some championships (league or international tournaments) or demonstrates at least a decade of NBA excellence.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:40, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
  1. Also might prefer Brittney Griner.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:04, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Robert Parish

PASSED
consensus to remove.78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:39, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nikola Jokic won the last two MVPs. Robert Parish never won the MVP award and, other than having played the most games, has a very weak case for being on here. pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Longevity leads to stats that might be overemphasized. He was never the best player at his position in the sport.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:40, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. czar 05:29, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 10:59, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support While Parish was a very good player, Bob McAdoo for one has a much more significant career overall considering his achivements on both sides of the Atlantic. Alvaldi (talk) 20:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Lenny Wilkens, remove Jerry Sloan

REMOVED
Consensus only to remove Sloan; not to add Wilkens czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lenny Wilkens is in the Hall of Fame as a player, Jerry Sloan isn't. Lenny Wilkens has more coaching victories than Jerry Sloan. Lenny Wilkens won a title, Sloan didn't. (Sloan is the only one of the six NBA head coaches we have on here to NOT win a title) pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support removinging Jerry Sloan. The list is already very American centric with only two of the 25 individuals coming from outside the United States. While Sloan was an accomplished coach, there are others out there who have had way more significant coaching careers. Alvaldi (talk) 08:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support removing Sloan.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:11, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support removing Sloan. Aszx5000 (talk) 12:56, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose adding Lenny Wilkens. There are already 23 individuals from the United States on the list and I'm not sure Wilkens is more significant than for instance Pedro Ferrándiz who won four Euroleague and 12 Spanish championships, Sergio Scariolo who has had great success with the Spanish national team, Greek coach Dušan Ivković who as a very impressive repertoire or Rubén Magnano who guided Argentine to the 2004 Olympic Gold and won several national championships, just to name a few. Alvaldi (talk) 08:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Phog Allen, remove ???

NOT PASSED
not enough support, and discussion stale for weeks now. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:44, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It surprised me that we had six NCAA men's coaches (and two women's coaches) and the Phog wasn't one of them. He won an NCAA championship and two Helms (pre-NCAA) championships, is at the head of an immense coaching tree that includes Adolph Rupp and Dean Smith (BTW, Rupp is arguably another bad omission), and was involved in the creation of the NCAA tournament and the Olympic basketball tournament Possible removals:

  • Harry Statham (didn't do what he did at a major school)
  • One of the NBA commissioners. We have all five, and, IMO, David Stern and maybe Larry O'Brien are the only one with an air-tight inclusion case. Podoloff was a hockey man, not a basketball man; Eddie Gottlieb is arguably a better choice for the early years of the NBA. Kennedy and O'Brien didn't accomplish a whole helluvalot (except for the NBA-ABA merger) and the jury is still out on Adam Silver. pbp 20:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support
Oppose
  1. Oppose. While I agree with removing most of the NBA commissioners (honestly, Stern should be the only one kept) and Harry Statham, I disagree with adding another American coach as the rest of the world is vastly underrepresented on this list. Alvaldi (talk) 08:36, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Sue Bird

ADDED
Added czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This is an example of how hard vital article list are going to be to maintain. When leagues create all-time lists (WNBA and NBA anniversary list), they expand. I.e., a 50th anniversary list includes 50 players and a 75 anniversary list includes 75. Vital article list are different. As time passes the number of great players expands, but our list does not. 5 years ago when this list was made, she was on the outside looking in. Now that she is a 4x-WNBA champion, 5x-Olympic gold medalist, 5x-FIBA world cup champion, 2x-NCAA champion, 5x-EuroLeague Champion, and 13x-WNBA All-star. Although she has no MVPs, she has won the USA basketball Female Athlete of the Year, which is essentially an Olympics MVP award for Olympic years.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. I think now she is among the 60 most vital.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support – Hyperbolick (talk) 01:22, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Alvaldi (talk) 20:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:47, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Maurice Podoloff

REMOVED
Consensus to remove czar 02:45, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Was a hockey man and an arena manager. Eddie Gottlieb is a better guy for the early years of the BAA and NBA pbp 19:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 20:03, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Nothing vital about this article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:54, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Alvaldi (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 12:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove J. Walter Kennedy

REMOVED
Consensus to remove czar 02:45, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We don't have every MLB commissioner, why should we have all the NBA commissioners? The case for NBA commissioners except for Stern and O'Brien is weak. pbp 19:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 20:03, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Nothing vital about this article.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:55, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Alvaldi (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 12:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Adam Silver

REMOVED
Consensus to remove czar 02:45, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We don't have every MLB commissioner, why should we have all the NBA commissioners? The case for NBA commissioners except for Stern and O'Brien is weak. pbp 19:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 20:03, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. He has not done much yet that makes him vital.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:52, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support for now. Alvaldi (talk) 20:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 12:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Cyrix and 3dfx Interactive

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

They are both long-dead electronics companies that don't seem to hold much significance. Mucube (talk) 23:04, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support czar 20:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree. They are notable (why they have WP articles), but not at L5 level (ie more of a footnote in history, than a chapter). 31.187.2.209 (talk) 20:24, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Per nom, not Level 5s. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 02:10, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose, since Cyrix's legacy does exist and should not be ignored, and 3dfx once played a vital role in computer gaming. --RekishiEJ (talk) 11:46, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Liu Yuan (Han Zhao)

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

He was the founding emperor of a dynasty, sure, but a rather insignificant one. All of the other Sixteen Kingdoms rulers aren't listed, so why should he be? Mucube (talk) 05:35, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
Oppose
Discuss

Liu Yuan was the person who overthrew the Western Jin. However, Liu Yuan was not the primary reason for the Western Jin's fall: the War of the Eight Princes was. Liu Yuan just happened to be at the right place, at the right time, and with the right army. Also, the dynasty he founded, the Former Zhao, was rather small and lasted for only 25 years. Also, as LightProof1995 has pointed out, the Politicians and leaders section is over-quota. Mucube (talk) 04:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

hmmmm. Perhaps swapping Fu Jian with Liu Yuan is a good idea? This period of Chinese is quite important, after all. Mucube (talk • contribs) 05:17, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Lawrence Ferlinghetti

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We're way oversubscribed on late modern writers, especially from the US. This bio is not a high-importance topic by his field (poetry). czar 20:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  1. czar 20:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Mucube (talk) 04:07, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support per your reasoning on the quotas. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:46, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  1. Oppose A well-known poet. --Thi (talk) 11:06, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Replace Prolog with Rust or Ruby

It seems like Prolog is just another one of those old, outdated, and obscure programming languages. I suggest we replace it with either with Rust or Ruby, which are much more popular. Mucube (talk) 04:39, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Prolog's very different to just about every other language (that it hasn't directly influenced). From a million-mile-high perspective, Python/Ruby/JS/Lua all share basically the same design and programming paradigm, but Prolog definitely doesn't. I think there's diversity value in keeping it on the list, but I appreciate that that argument also goes for a whole bunch of other languages that aren't currently included (e.g., there's no representative from the Forth/stack-based school). Polyphemus Goode (talk) 21:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove Prolog with no swap. Not "highest importance" in its field or essential to its category. No assertion of its enduring importance in its article. Not vital. czar 05:29, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Shunde District

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not a particularly important place. There are hundreds of other county-level divisions in Guangdong, so why should this one be listed? Mucube (talk) 22:03, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support per your analysis. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 11:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:45, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Changshu

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not particularly significant. The most important thing about this place I can find is that there is lots of agriculture. Mucube (talk) 22:05, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support per your analysis. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:12, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 11:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:45, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Replace Hachiōji with Chiyoda, Tokyo

Hachiōji is not a particularly significant part of Tokyo. I suggest we replace it with Chiyoda, which is much more significant, being the location of the Imperial Palace, National Diet, Prime Minister's Official Residence, Supreme Court, and many other government ministries and agencies. Mucube (talk) 22:12, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Strong Support I've studied Tokyo's districts before and agree with your analysis. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:10, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 11:13, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:44, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add WeChat Pay and Alipay

WeChat Pay and Alipay are both extremely popular in China, as anyone who has spent at least an hour in China can attest. The number of people who use these services far outnumber PayPal, which is listed here. (In 2021, WeChat Pay had 900 million users. In June 2020, Alipay had over 1.3 billion users. In 2022, PayPal only had 432 million active accounts.) Mucube (talk) 21:27, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Agree. AliPay is bigger than PayPal. 31.187.2.237 (talk) 20:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose

Add Minato, Tokyo

We have many of Beijing's districts listed (Chaoyang District, Dongcheng District, Haidian District, etc.), so we should have some of Tokyo's special wards too. I think that we should add Minato, because many large companies have their headquarters in Minato (Honda, Mitsubishi Motors, NEC, Nikon, Sony, Fujitsu and the foreign headquarters of Apple and Goldman Sachs), and basically every country with an embassy in Japan has it in Minato (see Minato, Tokyo#Diplomatic missions. Also, Keio University is located in Minato. Mucube (talk) 04:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you if we keep Beijing's districts, we should have some of Tokyo's. I feel we could only have 2 or 3 for each city. Most or all of the sub-districts of Manila seem to be relevant enough to keep even if we take out a couple of Beijing's. LightProof1995 (talk) 00:15, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Shijingshan District

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not a very important part of Beijing. Mucube (talk) 05:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support --Thi (talk) 11:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Excellent proposal, thanks :) LightProof1995 (talk) 00:15, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Pudong

Since we have a lot of Beijing's districts listed, we should have some of Shanghai's districts too. We should add Pudong because it's home to the Lujiazui, which includes the Oriental Pearl Tower, Shanghai World Financial Center, and Shanghai Tower, all of which are one of Shanghai's iconic landmarks. Also in Pudong are The Bund, the Zhangjiang Hi-Tech Park (which has been called China's Silicon Valley), the Shanghai Pudong International Airport, and Disneyland. Mucube (talk) 05:36, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support --Thi (talk) 11:15, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. --RekishiEJ (talk) 16:00, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Fengtai District

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not a very important part of Beijing. Mucube (talk) 18:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support --Thi (talk) 11:16, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Makkool (talk) 12:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Excellent proposal, thanks :) LightProof1995 (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:42, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Definitely not important enough to be a vital article. Mucube (talk) 05:40, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support with apologies to the B-vital squad czar 05:29, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 11:17, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Makkool (talk) 20:05, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:42, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose This article has 48,516 view counts -- more than all other essays listed combined. The Liberal Imagination only has 407 views in the past 30 days and was added as Vital by someone who was autopatrolling, not that I'm suggesting we remove that one, just pointing it out. LightProof1995 (talk) 00:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The vital article list should be based on lasting importance, not view counts. Explain to me why a random eight-year-old girl's letter to the editor has enough lasting importance to be among the world's most important 50,000 things. Mucube (talk • contribs) 05:13, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove bisexual pornography, add lesbian erotica

Feel like one of these is self-evidently more important. LarstonMarston (talk) 04:49, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support as nom LarstonMarston (talk) 04:58, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support as aficionado Kazamzam (talk) 17:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:40, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Lesbian pornography is currently a redirect to Lesbian erotica. @LarstonMarston: would you change tthe nomination? Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

changed it. LarstonMarston (talk) 15:59, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add Fedora Linux and Arch Linux

They are both rather popular Linux distributions. We have a lot of Windows versions listed, so we need some Linux distributions listed too. Mucube (talk) 05:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
Oppose
  1. Oppose. We're already adding Debian and Ubuntu, the two largest distros by market share, and top importance in their field. czar 03:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose. Already a niche area. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:39, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Serial (podcast)

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not particularly important. The journalism and mass media section is about 300 articles over-quota. Mucube (talk) 05:15, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support --Thi (talk) 11:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support czar 03:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support, and I'd suggest removing JRE while we're at it. No need to have individual podcasts, if Podcast itself is listed for the first time at this level. --Makkool (talk) 20:05, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:38, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose I added target counts to the Journalism and Mass media section a couple of days ago -- It is only Television that is over quota. Also this podcast looks pretty cool, even important. LightProof1995 (talk) 00:36, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Kwanyama dialect and Ndonga dialect

Not very important compared to the other languages that are listed. This will also fix the over-quota we have for the specific languages section. Mucube (talk) 05:20, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support --Thi (talk) 11:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support czar 03:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose for Kwanyama. It is a national language in two countries, Angola and Namibia. Ndonga can go, as it is mutually intelligible with Kwanyama any way, but I'd use caution removing African languages, as they are underrepresented. --Makkool (talk) 11:58, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add Sichuanese

Surprised that it hasn't been added yet. According to the article, it is spoken by about 120 million people, ahead of languages like Vietnamese and Korean. Mucube (talk) 05:26, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support --Makkool (talk) 20:05, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 14:20, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:38, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Fiji National University

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It's not an important university, and we are over-quota on education articles. Mucube (talk) 01:07, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support czar 03:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 12:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Agree. Not a globally important university; not L5. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 20:20, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Electric Daisy Carnival and Tomorrowland (festival)

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

They're not super important and we are over-quota on culture articles. Mucube (talk) 01:10, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support czar 03:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 12:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Oppose EDC rules!! I assume Tomorrowland does too. LightProof1995 (talk) 00:54, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We are over-quota on education articles and both of the articles are covered by Bachelor's degree. Mucube (talk) 01:13, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support czar 03:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support you're right LightProof1995 (talk) 00:55, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Lorax (talk) 03:13, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Mongolic languages

Support
  1. We have Tungusic, with about 75,000 native speakers, and even Altaic, which is only a proposed language family, listed, so we should have Mongolic, with more than 5.7 million speakers, listed. Mucube (talk) 02:28, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support I'd say we should add this. --Makkool (talk) 16:35, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

The language section is over because a lot of the articles are double-listed from levels 2-4 and, I think, bloating the category. We should clear out some of these and then see what the numbers are. Kazamzam (talk) 17:59, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The articles from previous levels are supposed to be listed here as well. --Makkool (talk) 18:48, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm undecided, but the Mongolian language is already listed in specific languages. Would that be enough cover it? And so far no Tungusic languages are covered in specific languages though. It's a significant language family despite a smaller number of speakers. --Makkool (talk) 18:48, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Moldovan language

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Support
  1. "Moldovan" is officially recognized by the Moldova government as a synonym for Romanian. Mucube (talk) 03:32, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support After considering, I'd say remove. --Makkool (talk) 16:35, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Removal LightProof1995 (talk) 07:45, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 18:59, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:36, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

I added Moldovan to the list one time, along with other languages with official recognition. My reasoning was that it's official status in Moldova made it vital. But I agree that's it's really just a synonym, so it doesn't justify a place on the list with other specific languages. --Makkool (talk) 11:18, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Bondage rigger, add Adolescent sexuality

Bondage rigger is just someone who applies bondage, while adolescent sexuality is a broad important topic.

  1. Support as nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support makes sense. --Onwa (talk) 22:46, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap: Remove Frederick III, German Emperor, add Frederick William IV of Prussia

SWAPPED
Swapped, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Frederick III was ruler of Germany for a few months. FW4 was ruler of Prussia for 17-21 years, depending if you count the years he was incapacitated pbp 16:58, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 16:58, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. Both arguments. 2001:BB6:24BB:D500:11CB:DD12:B5CF:589B (talk) 15:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. I'm teaching history in Germany - Frederick III is really unimportant. If a German history book mentions him at all, it is as a crown prince in his father's shadow. Frederick William IV is immensely important, not least as the king who suppressed the Revolution of 1848. Rsk6400 (talk) 13:30, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose Frederick III's premature death when he was such a celebrated leader is exactly what makes him vital. LightProof1995 (talk) 01:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add César Vallejo and Mario Benedetti

Two very important Latin American poets are missing.

As for César Vallejo, the article states «he is considered one of the great poetic innovators of the 20th century in any language», and he's been defined as «the greatest universal poet since Dante» and «the greatest twentieth-century poet in any language».

Mario Benedetti «is considered one of Latin America's most important writers of the latter half of the 20th century». 151.61.24.119 (talk) 15:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support --Thi (talk) 12:26, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support Mucube (talk • contribs) 22:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support only if I can take out some of the poets with less than 100 views in the past 30 days since we are over quota -- there seem to be a superfluous amount of obscure Brazilian and Russian ones listed. LightProof1995 (talk) 01:46, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Television section is way over-quota

The number of articles in the television section is almost twice the quota. I know basically nothing about television, so hopefully I can bring the television section to the attention of someone who knows more than me about television. Mucube (talk • contribs) 00:25, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have looked into it, not as thoroughly as it should be done with a serious assessment, but my impression is there is nothing much to trim, for example most shows listed are very influential for the history of television and for popular culture in general. Maybe it's the current quota for television being too low for a medium which had such a huge impact on human society. 151.61.27.72 (talk) 14:27, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All the other sections in the Culture sublist are over-quota as well, so I'm not sure where we would find slots for making the television quota higher. Maybe we should have a discussion across the whole Level 5 about what the quotas for each category should be, and find space for keeping all the television articles listed. Or maybe we have just been overly ambitious, and we could be more strict about what's vital in the TV section. Level 4 has 17 TV articles, and Level 5 has 461 - that's an 2700 % increase. --Makkool (talk) 10:38, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As someone who has adjusted the target counts and added target counts to sections that didn't have them yet, I can confirm we are just going to have to take out a bunch of the TV shows listed. I already just increased the target count of the Culture section overall from 1675 to 1750 by taking some counts from other sections e.g. Math. Even though I added 75 to the target count, when I added target counts to the remaining sections in "Journalism and Mass media", I ended up having to decrease the Television target counts from 315 to 260: "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/5/Society_and_social_sciences/Culture&diff=1130473791&oldid=1130469552". It seems the original target count of the Television section was 240. Also note even though the target was at 1675, the sum of the targets was 1725, so I actually only added 25 more. Still, I added them all to "Journalism and mass media", which the TV section falls under, and the TV section target count still went down. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:04, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remove BBC World News

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The television section is way over-quota and listing the BBC World News article is redundant to the main BBC article. Mucube (talk • contribs) 00:26, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Support It seems "BBC World News" is going to merge into "BBC News" anyway. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support per above Multifarious Ailurophile (talk) 12:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Thi (talk) 18:59, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Swap: Remove Japonic and Koreanic languages, add Na-Dene and Australian Aboriginal languages

I doesn't really make sense keeping Japonic and Koreanic languages in the language families sections, as we already list Japanese and Korean. Na-Dene and Pama-Nyungan would be good additions to increase North-American and Australian representation. --Makkool (talk) 11:12, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add Mircea Eliade

His contributions to historiography and philosophy of religion are highly important and influential. 151.42.197.224 (talk) 15:52, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Add Sundar Pichai

Should be listed at this level already Dawid2009 (talk) 11:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

About some United States Supreme Court cases

There used to be more such cases in the Level 5 list, yet there are now gone (e.g. Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District and Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc.). May other editors tell why? I'm so surprised when I read the talk page of Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, discovering that it is no longer regarded vital at this level, and more cases are no longer included in the list. RekishiEJ (talk) 18:26, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@RekishiEJ: Methinks that all but the biggest SCOTUS decisions lack vitality outside the United States, and that the number of SCOTUS decisions was unbalanced relative to the number of court cases from other countries. pbp 16:11, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add "Cielito Lindo"

This is (along with "La Cucaracha") one of the most recognizable songs in all of Latino Culture. The problem is that no one knows the name of the song. It is the Ay yi yi yi song to most English speakers, but if you are serenaded by a Mariachi band, you might be disappointed if they don't play this song.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:12, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Support--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I agree that it's very popular and notable, and should be considered to be vital. I realized that "Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)" is another very recognizable song that's not listed in the Music section. We are currently at quota on specific musical works. Do you have an idea of what should be replaced when Cielito Lindo is added? --Makkool (talk) 10:15, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove "Scarborough Fair (ballad)"

(discussion split from section above and below) I am only familiar with the Simon & Garfunkel version of "Scarborough Fair" and find it hard to believe that this song has greater cultural significance than either of these two. "Que Sera, Sera" is not the focal song of a culture like "Cielito Lindo" is for the Mexican Culture. There is no situation I would find myself in where it would be important to a culture to present Que Sera, Sera, whereas Cielito Lindo is actually a song that serves as an international representation of a nation. It is as if in order for Mariachi bands to serve as ambassadors of their culture it is imperative that they present this song to any audience. It is more like "Auld Lang Syne" or a national anthem, whereas its performance is an imperative national or international presentation.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support
  1. Support--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"

Support
  1. Support--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Remove Pekalongan, Probolinggo, Cirebon, Cimahi, Kediri (city), Sukabumi, Tasikmalaya, Tegal AND Add Pangkal Pinang, Tanjung Pinang, Banjarbaru, Gorontalo (city), Sorong

Why? For one, the current list doesnt make any sense. All of the proposed removals are random Javanese cities that have little significant compared to its big industrial center/capital city. As my previous proposal was largely ignored, I will explain now my reasoning in details for each cities.

Removal

  • Pekalongan: Significantly smaller than Semarang which is the capital of the province and less significant politically. The reasoning that it is the most important port of the province is doubted as there are handful of bigger industrial ports within the province's coast such as Tanjung Emas in Semarang and Batang Port.
  • Probolinggo: Compared to capital of the province, Surabaya, the influence of the city both economically and politically for the province in general is far smaller. For one, it is not even the second largest city of the province (that goes to Malang). Compared to Surabaya which is the second largest city in the country and gateway to Madura and also Eastern Indonesia in general and Malang which is 12th largest city in the country and historically important, there's little reason to include Probolinggo in the list.
  • Cirebon: West Java has numbers of cities that are far more important such as Bandung which is the capital city, Bogor which is historically and culturally important and also part of Jakarta metropolitan area, and also Depok and Bekasi which are part of Jakarta metropolitan area and hosts significant industries. Similar reasoning with Probolinggo's removal.
  • Cimahi: Same reasoning with above, relatively small city within the province.
  • Kediri: While could be argued historically important, it has small population relative to other cities within the province (East Java) and compared to Surabaya, still far less important. Similar reasoning with Probolinggo.
  • Sukabumi: Same reasoning with Cimahi and Cirebon, relatively little importance compared to other cities in West Java
  • Tasikmalaya: Again, another one from West Java. Relatively little importance compared to likes of Bandung, Bogor, Bekasi, Depok. We have enough of important cities from West Java.
  • Tegal: Relatively less important city for East Java, similar reasoning as others. Relatively small economy by Javanese city standart.

Addition

  • Pangkal Pinang: Largest city of Bangka Belitung Province, most economically and politically important administrative division in the province.
  • Tanjung Pinang: Governance center and capital of Riau Islands hence politically important, historically important when it comes to Malay history.
  • Banjarbaru: Capital of the province hence politically important. Major government institutions of the province are located in the city.
  • Gorontalo: Largest city and capital of Gorontalo province, economic and education center of the province. Important port for northern part of Sulawesi and Minahasan peninsula.
  • Sorong: Economically important city for the Bird Head Peninsula region, major industrial center for West Papua in general. Third largest city in the island behind Jayapura and Port Moresby. Also now capital of newly-formed province of Southwest Papua.

That's all of my reasoning. Thank you Nyanardsan (talk) 08:50, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. Reasonable points, I support this swap. --Makkool (talk) 10:07, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:55, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Disagree, replace them with the more significant place you listed in the same province. I don’t know much about Indonesia though, so if you could contrast the difference between provinces, then maybe. Vital Articles Grammar (talk) 04:26, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Vital Articles Grammar
Most of those important places I listed in the same province are already in the list so there's pretty much nothing to argue there. There's underrepresentation of non-Javanese provinces here too and that should be tackled (Bangka Belitung, Gorontalo, and West Papua/Southwest Papua do not have any city listed in vital article as of now, there are other provinces too but they dont have city/having city status yet so its a misnomer to add them here). Since we are talking here city-wise, not province-wise, the importance of the provinces are not to be discussed here but the city instead. Nyanardsan (talk) 06:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In that case Support. Thanks for clarifying things. Vital Articles Grammar (talk) 06:31, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

I've added 25 to the target counts of Southeast Asian cities, taken from the Western Asia cities section which was at 161/200 articles. Now it is at 161/175 articles while Southeast Asian cities are at 153/155 articles. While the entire section on Cities is 30 over, the sections that are over-quota are the Western and African sections, not Southeast Asia. Therefore, we no longer have to necessarily reduce the number of cities listed when making proposals in the Southeast Asian cities section. Therefore, currently I Oppose removing all the cities you propose removing except for Probolinggo and Tegal, which I Support removing. I also Support the additions of all cities you propose as adding although it should be noted Sorong is already listed. Tegal I am okay with removing only because it is redundant with Pekalongan -- both were Dutch ports known for sugar and are close to each other. LightProof1995 (talk) 02:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@LightProof1995: Can you please link to the discussion about changing the target counts? Thank you. Vital Articles Grammar (talk) 04:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hey @Vital Articles Grammar, I'm not sure who set the original target counts for cities. Unlike adding or removing articles, setting target counts isn't nearly as regulated, so the discussion is here.
Since we are close to 50,000, we can assume for categories people are most passionate about, the number of articles in there quotas is somewhat close to what it will end up being. So that's why I went ahead and moved 25 from "Western Asia" to "Southeast Asia" when Western was at 161/200, while Southern was at 153/130.
However, we can go ahead and analyze all view counts with the Geography section for confirmation those are good targets. We can also compare the populations of each area to determine the targets.
For starters, Southeast Asia has close to double the population of Western Asia: 669 million people[1] compared to 363 million people[2]. So we can move more target counts from Western Asia to Southeast Asia, and they should at least be equal.
Africa's target of 200 I think covers the cities in it I'd consider vital.
I was going to say America's target of 360 may be over, but then I saw Europe's target of 435.
Asia's population is 57% of the world population[3], and currently has a target of 880, which is 45.8% of the 1920 total location-specific articles -- not a difference big enough I feel it needs to be changed.
So overall I think setting both Western Asia and Southeast Asia to 165 articles each is best for now. This also means I Oppose all proposed removals but Support all proposed additions. LightProof1995 (talk) 07:21, 6 January 2023 (UTC) LightProof1995 (talk) 07:21, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=southeast+asia+population
  2. ^ https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=western+asia+population, https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=western+asia+population+plus+iran+population
  3. ^ https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=asia+population

International Flags in Level 5 History National flags

I suggest we add International flags to the National flags part of History, renaming it flags (or something else.) Vital Articles Grammar (talk) 04:21, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Half-Life (series), add The Witcher (video game series)

We already have original Half-Life of 1998. The only other game in the series is Half-Life 2 of 2004, which has less views (27,252) in the past 30 days than both Half-Life I (38,520) and the series (29,982).

I've never heard nor played either game although I'm sure they are great, however Witcher 3 is one of my favorite games. It is considered among the best video games just like Half-Life 1 and Half-Life 2: "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_considered_the_best". I wasn't sure whether to propose adding Witcher 3 (93,192 views) or the series (43,728 views), but I decided on the series because The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is already GA status, with 3 great paragraphs explaining gameplay, whilst the Witcher series article currently only says this under Gameplay: "In the series, the player controls Geralt of Rivia, one of the few remaining witchers on the Continent. He is a traveling monster slayer for hire, mutated and trained from an early age to slay deadly beasts." So maybe this is the article that needs work.

Also The Witcher video games were so successful they inspired Netflix to adapt the books into what I think is a great show so far.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 03:08, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree, but I would favor The Witcher 3 instead of the series. (I'm in the opinion that individual games or movies are almost always more vital than series articles.) --Makkool (talk) 18:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What if we add The Witcher 3 on the condition we also write a great Gameplay synopsis of all Witcher games on the series' article? LightProof1995 (talk) 07:24, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support Per nominator (the article which is not good is approciate choice) and per @Piotrus: comments in the archives. I was sceptical about recent video games games some.time ago but nowdays I definietly chsaged opinion about Witcher and my view on video game section when now list is bit more stable. Also, most games ehich we cover are from USA/Japan/United Kington. The Witcher is by far one of the most promient video games which are not from English-speaking world or Japan. Is ok. Perhaps creating sections by "country production" cluld be ok. Dawid2009 (talk) 20:53, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support removal, oppose add:

  1. pbp 16:07, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Single Half-Life is fine, but "Witcher 3 is one of my favorite games" is not how this works. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral on removal, support add:

  • I certainly support adding The Witcher, it is arguably one of the most important games (game series) of the last decade+. However, I am not convinced Half-Life is less important, it's older but it was an important series a while back. Is Witcher more important than Half-Life? Honestly, I am unsure. But I concur it is at least as important and more famous now, so switching this would I guess make our list more "up-to-date" if we cannot keep both. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:32, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but I was under the impression that the question was for the removal of Half-life (series) article and not Half-Life 1998, which should definitely be kept. --Makkool (talk) 10:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@MakkoolYes this is true, the proposal is to remove the Half-Life (series) article, but keep the first Half-Life game. LightProof1995 (talk) 05:16, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap: add SimCity, remove SimCity (1989 video game)

SWAPPED
Swapped, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I prefer a wider overview over listing the individual game.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:52, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nom. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:19, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support --Thi (talk) 14:22, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support great proposal :) LightProof1995 (talk) 05:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. The first SimCity was ground-breaking as one of the first city planning sims. The rest of the games in the series don't have the same level of notability. (I'm in the opinion that individual games or movies are almost always more vital than series articles.) --Makkool (talk) 18:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)'[reply]
SimCity 1989 is listed in the Library of Congress's game canon, which further supports it's inclusion. --Makkool (talk) 10:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Return Street Fighter II that was removed without discussion

REPLACED
Replaced in January czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

SF2 is one of the most notable video games released in the 1990's, and a ground-breaking title in arcade games of that decade and fighting games of all time. --Makkool (talk) 18:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 18:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support swap for Street Fighter LightProof1995 (talk) 07:25, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support swap for Street Fighter--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:10, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  1. We already have Street Fighter. That should be IMO swapped out if SF2 is to be added.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:09, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    1. I agree - swap, if this gets enough support. --Makkool (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      1. Clarifying my vote explicitly to Oppose unless Street Fighter is removed--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:10, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss:

Everyone who was involved with the initial bold swap has now agreed Street Fighter II is a better choice if we are to only have one, so I've made the swap. LightProof1995 (talk) 07:04, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add "All I Want for Christmas Is You"

Now that we are in the digital download and streaming subscription era of music, we have very hard data on what the most demanded songs of the Christmas season are. Each of the last 4 holiday seasons, "All I Want for Christmas Is You" been number 1 on the 2019, 2020, 2021, and List of Billboard Hot 100 number ones of 2022. Since there are 10 Xmas slots, I would think about removing either "Good King Wenceslas" or "Santa Lucia".--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  1. As nom. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Yes, surprised this wasn't already on the list. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 14:52, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Makes sense --LJFIN2 (talk) 23:02, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  1. We're oversubscribed in music and doesn't reach the level of others in the overrepresented subcategory. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss

Add Synthetic media

AI field of growing importance. The article provides a wide overview from deepfakes to GANs to Stable Diffusion, the last of which has caused quite the stir in art communities.[1][2][3] I'd place it under "Artificial intelligence concepts" in Technology; even if not all synthetic media are necessarily by AI they overwhelmingly are so.

Support
  1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Feels like an emerging, and notable, term to cover many emerging, and notable, sub-terms. Not sure that it has been around long enough to be a true Level 5 (i.e. an enduring concept for all time) yet. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 00:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose per 78.18 czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss
[4][5] No consensus (or any responses) yet, but I might try again later, or if the technology removals pass (making the section below quota) boldly add it myself.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 17:30, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d37za/voice-actors-sign-away-rights-to-artificial-intelligence --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 14:10, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/05/ai-voice-scam/ --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 15:06, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap: add Nedo Nadi, remove Aldo Nadi

Nedo was notoriously the better and more successful fencer of the two.

Support
  1. As nom. 87.241.33.18 (talk) 13:38, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Add Sorani

Native language for 8 mln people. For this level it is enough. Dawid2009 (talk) 12:23, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I agree in principle with this. We already list Kurdish language though, and we are over the quota for specific languages. We would need to free a few slots first, as we would need to list Kurmanji along with Sorani under Kurdish. --Makkool (talk) 10:47, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Northern Sotho language

Another quite popular language Dawid2009 (talk) 17:53, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Oppose - articles are not added based on "popularity" and 4 million speakers isn't terribly noteworthy on its own. Maybe it should be added but you need a much better argument than this. Kazamzam (talk) 17:56, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose per above czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Rwanda-Rundi

20 milion speakers. Dawid2009 (talk) 18:02, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Oppose We already list both Rundi and Kinyarwanda, which are two standardized varieties of Rwanda-Rundi. --Makkool (talk) 16:35, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose per above czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Alemannic German

Not sos ure about it but I do nomination. Dawid2009 (talk) 18:04, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Oppose If we would include it, we would have to take in Bavarian German and possible other varieties too, and we wouldn't have the space. --Makkool (talk) 16:35, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add hardware bug

Now that software bug is included its hardware counterpart should be added as well.

Support
  1. As nom.--RekishiEJ (talk) 08:20, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Not the same importance in field as software bug. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

Add Panathenaic Stadium

The Stadiums section in the Sports, games, and recreation section is currently at 9/10 stadiums. I propose we add the Panathenaic Stadium, located in Athens, Greece. The current structure was built in 144 AD by the Athenian Senator Herodes Atticus but the site was used for the Panathenaic Games for centuries before that. The only stadium in the world built entirely of marble, it is on par in seating capacity with the other stadiums listed: it once seated 80,000 people, roughly on par with the Maracanã Stadium and the Wembley Stadium. It was largely abandoned with the rise of Christianity in the 4th century but was excavated and refurbished in 1869. The first modern Olympic games were held there in 1896.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 14:50, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Kalaripayattu

The Martial arts section in Sports, games, and recreation is currently at 57/60 articles. I propose we add Kalaripayattu -- I once made a list of 16 martial arts when designing a video game, and Kalaripayattu is the only one on that list that isn't currently listed as vital. India's most famous martial art, it is unusual from other martial arts in that weapons are trained with before bare fists, and it incorporates tantric healing practices as well. It comes up in searches as the oldest martial art in the world[1][2], although this may just be because Indian martial arts are among the oldest martial arts as Kalaripayattu itself did not come about until around the 12th century[3]. So I also propose we add the Indian martial arts article as vital.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 15:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0c7trtc/kalaripayattu-india-s-martial-art-and-the-world-s-oldest
  2. ^ https://blog.centurymartialarts.com/worlds-oldest-martial-art
  3. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts_timeline

Add Goalpost

The Sports equipment section is currently at 27/30 articles. I propose we add Goal (sports), aka Goalpost, as Vital-5. They are one of the most pieces of sports equipment across multiple sports such as football/soccer, basketball, hockey, and American football.

Support

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 15:20, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 15:16, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Agree. 31.187.2.237 (talk) 20:50, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add History of Central Africa, History of East Africa, and History of Southern Africa as well as Genetic history of Africa

Presently, the History of Africa, History of North Africa and History of West Africa are listed under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/History#History by continent and region (43 articles). I propose that the History of Central Africa, History of East Africa, and History of Southern Africa as well as the Genetic history of Africa be added. Daniel Power of God (talk) 22:54, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the articles. LightProof1995 (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Arts–Architecture–Specific Structures Proposals

We are over-quota on both the Arts section and the Specific Structures section under Architecture. There are a number of Structures here I don't think are vital compared to some that are not listed. I'm proposing removals and additions below—all proposals are independent of each other, although since I've wanted others to try to keep proposals to where they still match the target counts once they are all implemented, I'll do the same here (just know all proposals are still independent/we don't have to add/remove exactly what I suggest).

Remove TWA Flight Center

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We already have JFK Airport listed under technology along with a dozen other airports. This also reduces Western bias.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 01:06, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree --Makkool (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Per nom, just not on the same level. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 19:45, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Is really part of JFK; excessive US-focus. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Not important. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Santiago de Compostela Cathedral

We already have Camino de Santiago listed. To list them both is redundant, as the cathedral is a part of the pilgrimage routes. The Camino article also receives way more views than the cathedral article–59,079 views in the last 30 days compared to the cathedral's 7,471 views. This also reduces Western bias.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 01:06, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree --Makkool (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Thi (talk) 19:03, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap Paris meridian for Greenwich Observatory

I don't think the Paris meridian should be listed over the Greenwich one when the International Reference Meridian is based on the Greenwich meridian.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 01:06, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree, head-to-head, Greenwich is a stronger candidate than Paris. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 19:46, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Greenwich is definitely more important than Paris. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 19:03, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Definitely. Basically no one uses the Paris meridian today. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  1. Isn't Coordinated Universal Time the target this thread is actually discussing, not the observatory? UTC is the in-use successor to Greenwich Mean Time. I can support removing Paris but I'd add UTC before Greenwich Observatory. czar 15:09, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap out Mudéjar architecture of Aragon, Swap in Rock-cut architecture (under Styles)

SWAPPED
Swapped, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I was going to move the Mudéjar architecture article to under the Architecture/Styles section, but decided it would be better to remove it altogether and put Rock-cut architecture under styles instead. The Mudéjar architecture article only has 254 views in the past 30 days, and refers to architecture seen only in one city in Spain. Rock-cut architecture is much more broad and includes Indian rock-cut architecture such as stepwells, along with other locations around the world such as the Cliff Palace, the Mogao Caves, Petra, and the Lalibela churches.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 07:56, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree. On a head-to-head, makes sense. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 19:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Definitely. Broader is better. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion: Should Mudéjar architecture of Aragon be merged into Mudéjar architecture, and that be listed as vital somewhere? Note both Spanish Gothic architecture and Spanish Renaissance architecture are listed, and Mudéjar style spanned both Medieval and Renaissance eras. LightProof1995 (talk) 09:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Nazca Lines

This will reduce the Western bias by adding a South America article (Of the 32 Americas specific structures listed, only 2 are in South America). The Nazca Lines are a very unique architectural work of Pre-Columbian art. They've inspired a lot of speculation on their construction, similar to The Pyramids. Views of Nazca Lines in the past 30 days: 57,463.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 22:49, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agreed, culturally significant, deserves to be in the list Lorax (talk) 00:24, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Agree --Makkool (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Agreed, highly significant. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 19:48, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support. Another UNESCO top site. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support --Thi (talk) 19:03, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Onwa (talk) 22:41, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:55, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  9. Definitely vital. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Kensington Palace and Hampton Court Palace

This will reduce the Western bias by removing some articles I'd consider superfluous English royal residences that don't particularly deserve to be listed here over other British royal residences such as Sandringham House, Clarence House, and Balmoral Castle.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 23:04, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree --Makkool (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Thi (talk) 19:03, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Ishtar Gate

ADDED
Added, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Ishtar Gate was one of the 8 main gates of Babylon, which was also known for wonders such as the Hanging Gardens and the Tower of Babel. Many replicas of it exist although the original was so massive there is no exact replica of the entire original structure, only facades or segments of the gate. Since Tower of Babel is already listed under Philosophy, so I think Ishtar Gate is the better choice if we are to add another Babylon structure instead of Etemenanki due to the redundancy of having both Etemenanki and Tower of Babel listed (Etemenanki is suspected to have inspired the Tower of Babel legend). Views of Ishtar Gate in the past 30 days: 18,923.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 23:23, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree --Makkool (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Agree. Per nom. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 19:49, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support --Thi (talk) 19:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:58, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

What wrong with adding Etemananki? Something inspiring something else isn't really redundant. Plus, the Tower of Babel was only a myth, not a real structure. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with adding Ishtar Gate, but I don't think that Etemenanki is redundant to the Tower of Babel. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Brihadisvara Temple

ADDED
Added, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We have zero examples of Dravidian architecture on the list. While there are several great options, I’m choosing this temple because it is famous for both its engineering along with its architecture. A symbol of Tamil Nadu, adding this temple will reduce the Western bias. Views of Brihadisvara Temple in the past 30 days: 68,569.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 23:23, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree --Makkool (talk) 21:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Agree Multifarious Ailurophile (talk) 12:15, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Major UNESCO site. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

I think that adding Ranganathaswamy Temple, Srirangam might be better since it is more than three times larger in area and it is also in Tamil Nadu. It was also built by the Chola Empire, but hundreds of years earlier. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Newgrange

ADDED
Added, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I wanted to suggest we add an Irish structure since we have so many in the United Kingdom but zero in Ireland. The world’s largest passage tomb, Newgrange is older than both Stonehenge and The Pyramids. It’s one of Ireland's most famous archeological sites along with the Hill of Tara. Views of Newgrange in past 30 days: 25,829.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 09:01, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. Per nom. Really surprised this was not Level 5, and is probably one of the most important structures in Europe from that era. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 17:12, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Agree Makkool (talk) 18:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Absolutely. Great spot by nom, highly significant site. 31.187.2.209 (talk) 19:51, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support --Thi (talk) 19:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support Looks like a very important archeological site. Mucube (talk • contribs) 22:43, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion

Newgrange is one of only three UNESCO sites on the whole Ireland island, the other two being: Giant's Causeway (a Level 5 for physical, and in Northern Ireland), and Skellig Michael, another Level 5 possibility? Is Wikipedia Level 5 reconciled with the UNESCO List? This might be an exercise worth doing? Certainly, sites that are not on the UNESCO list may indicate they are not really Level 5 (unless there is some controversy around their non-inclusion on UNESCO). 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:20, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Cathedral of Christ the Saviour

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We already have the iconic cathedral of Moscow: St. Basil's Cathedral. The general consensus seems to be to list one cathedral per city (see proposal on removing St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, above). The Cathedral of Christ the Saviour may be the largest in Moscow, but is is also very new, being built 1995-2000. (The original was demolished on purpose to be replaced by a Soviet palace, but that was never built and they rebuilt this church when the Soviet Union collapsed.) Removing this may also reduce Western bias (unless Newgrange replaces it, but a swap for Newgrange I feel is good since we have zero Irish structures and nine Russian ones.).

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 09:01, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Agree Makkool (talk) 18:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Not even UNESCO (and not the original). 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support --Thi (talk) 19:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Kazan Cathedral, St. Petersburg

I'm not sure why this one is listed. It's not the largest cathedral in St. Petersburg, that is St. Isaac's Cathedral, which is not listed even though I'd also consider it to be St. Petersburg's most iconic cathedral. Compare their view counts: St. Isaac's has 4,590 in the past 30 days compared to this cathedral's at 1,895. We also already have three other structures in St. Petersburg listed.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 09:01, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support per nom; although the Our Lady of Kazan could be a Level 5? 78.18.228.191 (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support --Thi (talk) 19:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Tokyo Skytree

ADDED
Added, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It's now been the world's tallest observation tower for over ten years. Note CN Tower and Ostankino Tower are listed, which also have also held the record but are shorter (and in Ostankino Tower's case, held the record for less time) than Tokyo Skytree. Adding this will also reduce Western bias. Views of Tokyo Skytree in past 30 days: 47,496.

Support
  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 09:01, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per nom. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 09:05, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. --RekishiEJ (talk) 15:21, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Being the world's tallest tower for ten years is certainly enough for vitality. Mucube (talk • contribs) 23:08, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Comment on this: The only reason I haven't added some of these articles as vital (Newgrange, Ishtar Gate, Nazca Lines, etc.) is because we are over quota and there haven't been enough votes to remove some of the other articles. Specifically, we need at least 4 votes to remove an article. I would go ahead and remove Cathedral of Christ the Savior and TWA Flight Center and add others in, but it didn't feel right to remove the Cathedral of Christ the Savior but not the Kazan Cathedral in St. Petersburg, which is obviously less vital. So I was waiting for that one, at least, to receive 4 votes for removal. LightProof1995 (talk) 05:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move Lalibela to Geography/Cities section, add Rock-Hewn Churches, Lalibela here

Comparing/reading through the two articles, I believe the Rock-Hewn Churches is one meant to be here. It needs work, and the article on Lalibela itself has to be too focused on the history/demographics of the city to sufficiently cover the religious/cultural/architectural significance of the churches. I'm proposing just moving Lalibela over to the Cities section instead of swapping it out -- I went through the target counts of the Cities section before and I feel Africa's target is under quota (See my analysis in the Indonesian cities proposals above -- I initially felt Africa's target counts were okay until I saw the target counts of the other continents.).

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 09:40, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support add, Oppose move. To me, it doesn't seem to be a vital topic as a city on it's own. Besides, we are over-quota in East African cities. So I would just remove Lalibela. --Makkool (talk) 13:00, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jurists

In 2021, this edit moved jurists from the "People/Miscellaneous" to the "People/Philosophers, historians, political and social scientists" section. As far as I can tell this broke the link in the talk page infobox for every person in that category. Could someone please fix these, its been broken for 2 years.

Also, the Law enforcement section needs some work, its overwhelmingly american, and doesn't really fit into the Misc section since most are high level government officials or outright politicians (like Beria).

--jonas (talk) 11:54, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Rishi Sunak (revisiting this topic)

ADDED
Added, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

When Rishi Sunak took office, there was a discussion on whether or not to add him, as we have most other British prime ministers. The discussion was closed as no consensus. Several people wanted to see if his prime ministry made it to 2023 before adding him. It now has. pbp 16:27, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 16:27, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. --RekishiEJ (talk) 17:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support per nom. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support, yes, now it is time. Hyperbolick (talk) 10:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Yes. 31.187.2.16 (talk) 20:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support. --LJFIN2 (talk) 23:01, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Onwa (talk) 22:57, 3 February 2023 (UTC) current overquota of politicians (2457/2300) and over representation of UK politicians over other European leaders (27 of 100 from Western Europe or 160 from Europe overall). However, if this biography is still considered "important" and "vital", please swap it for other British politician. --Onwa (talk) 22:57, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. There's just not enough space for every PM. Not clear why Sunak should go in over e.g. Sanna Marin (longer tenure, also a demographic first, decision to abandon neutrality and join NATO happened on her watch) or Fumio Kishida (longer tenure). I don't think either of those make the bar, and I don't think Sunak does either. List overall is already too Anglosphere heavy and I'd support thinning out the UK PMs and thickening up rest-of-world coverage. Polyphemus Goode (talk) 10:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discuss

@Onwa: You might want to check out the removals I proposed below pbp 02:47, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Carlo Ancelotti

I was amazed to see that he was not a Level 5; he is arguably a Level 4 (greatest-ever manager)? 78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nom. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 13:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Per his blp, is regarded as the greatest football manager in history (should be a level 4 candidate). Aszx5000 (talk) 00:07, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Onwa (talk) 22:50, 3 February 2023 (UTC) subjective opinion and no actual reason given. --Onwa (talk) 22:50, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Mark Drakeford (revisiting this topic)

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

When Sunik was nominated for addition, there was concern that this should be balanced by a British removal, maybe more than one because politicians is over quota. Never was PM and I'm not seeing anything significant enough to warrant inclusion on this list. We don't typically list First Ministers of Wales and Scotland. In 2022, was nominated for removal, vote was 2-0 before going stale. pbp 03:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 03:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. --Makkool (talk) 10:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Hyperbolick (talk) 05:19, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:30, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Polyphemus Goode (talk) 10:36, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Keir Starmer (revisiting this topic)

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

When Sunik was nominated for addition, there was concern that this should be balanced by a British removal, maybe more than one because politicians is over quota. Would be notable if he became PM for longer than a lettuce head but oppo leader generally isn't notable enough. In 2022, was nominated for removal, vote was 2-0 before going stale. pbp 03:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 03:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. --Makkool (talk) 10:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Onwa (talk) 02:46, 6 February 2023 (UTC) per nom.[reply]
  4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC) per nom.[reply]
  5. Hyperbolick (talk) 05:25, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:29, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Polyphemus Goode (talk) 10:36, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Louis Antoine, Duke of Angoulême and Henri, Count of Chambord

REMOVED
Removed, per 55% czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We're over quota on politicians and we applied the head of lettuce test to Liz Truss. I suggest we do that to these two French noblemen as well. Their claim to being monarch is tenuous (hence why they aren't called Louis XIX or whatever in their article titles) and the time they held claim to the monarchy is comically short, in one case, a mere twenty minutes. pbp 03:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 03:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. These two are hardly even relevant in French history, let alone world history. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:50, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Only reigning for twenty minutes is obviously not enough to be listed. Mucube (talk • contribs) 22:50, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:29, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Felipe VI

Is the current king of Spain. 77.27.88.152 (talk) 11:52, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

support
oppose
  1. Oppose. Too soon (and nothing yet that would make him Level 5). Aszx5000 (talk) 19:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
discuss
  1. Coment For example, in Netherlands is the current king Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands and he has 1 year (of reign) more than Felipe VI, @User:Aszx5000 @User:Czar 77.27.89.221 (talk) 06:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd support removing that one as well czar 13:17, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    So would I. Aszx5000 (talk) 15:13, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Religious Figures to add

@RekishiEJ wanted me to propose some additions to the Religious figures section. They are as follows:

Alexandre de Rhodes

Drogön Chögyal Phagpa

Francisco de Pina

Machig Labdrön

Vajradhara

However, the Target count of Religious Figures currently is at 500/500. Should we increase the target count to 505 and add these articles as vital? (Or maybe a different target count, like 525?)

Support:

Oppose:

  1. Oppose They don't seem to be notable enough to be listed on this level. De Rhodes and de Pina seem to be more vital as linguists than religious figures, so should they be listed with social scientists rather? (along with Mesrop Mashtots, the creator of the Armenian alphabet for example). Also Vajradhara is a mythical/disputed figure, so he should be listed in the Religion section along with Moses and other Old Testament characters. --Makkool (talk) 13:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose. No strong rationale given; moving stale nomination along. czar 13:21, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

  • I'm currently unsure of where we can get the target counts from, but as I go down the list and continue updating the counts, maybe something will make sense, and if so I'll support these additions at that point. I feel this vote should be focused more on whether the articles mentioned should be vital or not, and not whether they'll mess up the target counts. LightProof1995 (talk) 11:05, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looking at Drogön Chögyal Phagpa, he arguably has as much case in politics as he does in religion. pbp 03:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap Mount Asu and Mount Usu with Khangai Mountains and Yablonoi Mountains

Japan is already well-represented in Physical geography / Land relief. Khangai and Yablonoi are major mountain ranges in Mongolia and Siberia respectively (I have a wall world map where both are marked). I'm not an expert in geography, I just chose something to remove. I'm open for suggestions for some other articles to replace. --Makkool (talk) 13:07, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. --Makkool (talk) 13:07, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Makkool (talk) 13:07, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

January 6 attack formatted incorrectly

Under the United States section of the 21st century history section, it appears that the January 6 United States Capitol attack and Aftermath of the January 6 United States Capitol attack articles are listed as subsections to the 2017 Las Vegas shooting article. Could someone fix this? TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 20:18, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like this was fixed czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting politicians and leaders down to quota

Politicians and leaders is at least 100 over quota. We need to figure out how to get it down to size. One exercise I think we need to do is look at which offices...

  1. ...get the full set
  2. ...get the full set except for people who fail the lettuce test
  3. ...get some but not all
  4. ...only get the most exceptional or transformational

pbp 16:41, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Swap: remove Abd al-Rahman ibn Abd Allah al-Ghafiqi, add Sayf al-Dawla

Al-Ghafiqi is notable only because the Battle of Tours is notable. Otherwise he is not an exceptional military figure, and was one of many Muslim commanders involved in the conquest of al-Andalus and the invasions into France. Sayf al-Dawla on the other hand is to this day one of the best known medieval Arab leaders, played an important role in several processes, from the collapse of the Abbasid empire to the Byzantine Reconquist and the rise of Bedouin and Shi'ism in Syria, was renowned for his military prowess, and assembled a brilliant court with such culturally significant figures as al-Mutanabbi. Constantine ✍ 15:31, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

American football coaching/business adds and deletes

Add Nick Saban

ADDED
Added czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Support

Oppose

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Remove Roger Goodell

REMOVED
Removed czar 01:15, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Support

Oppose

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add Hyaenodonta, Amphicyonidae, and Amphicyon

Hyaenodonta is a highly notable order of carnivorous mammals that were at their prime at the Eocene and Oligocene, establishing themselves as some of the top mammalian predators to have ever existed, most notably with Hyaenodon but also with Miocene genera such as Hyainailouros, Megistotherium, and the late surviving Dissopsalis. Although the order had seen an early extinction in the Oligocene along with Nimravidae in North America and were past their prime as a result of global cooling events, they still existed in Eurasia as evident by the middle and late Miocene hyainailourine Hyainailouros and Dissopsalis. They also continued to thrive in Africa as some of the sole apex predators of Africa that could grow to exceptional sizes as evident by the Miocene Megistotherium and Simbakubwa. While Hyaenodon is the "mascot" genus of Hyaenodonta due to its success from the Eocene up to the early Miocene, it alone does not completely represent all hyaenodonts, especially those that lived by the middle-late Miocene before all went extinct (it should not be removed as a vital article however). They are also relatively popular fossil taxons to research in recent decades.

Amphicyonidae is also a highly notable extinct carnivoran family because it represents the longest-spanning and most diverse extinct carnivoran family to have existed, ranging from early "New World" amphicyonids like Daphoenus and Gustafsonia plus the "Old World" Cynodictis of the Eocene when Hyaenodonta and Oxyaenodonta used to rule as the top apex predators of the Old World continents and North America to highly diverse "Old World" genera (Amphicyoninae and Thaumastocyoninae) of the Miocene that dominated top predatory niches along with hemicyonine ursids, barbourofeline nimravids, hyaenids, felids, and hyainailourines and spread from Eurasia to Africa and North America, filling predatory niches have today have no identical modern equivalents. The family for this reason also became highly popular for Eurasian paleontologists studying the Neogene, especially since the family collapsed largely as a result of events of or relating to the Vallesian Crisis of Europe, which drove many mammalian genera to extinction in Eurasia. By extension, Amphicyon, the type genus, should also be a vital article because not only is it the type genus of its own subfamily and family but it is one of the most successful amphicyonids in the already successful family in the early-middle Miocene, managing to survive up to the late Miocene as some of the last amphicyonids to exist.

If successful, I will likely suggest more notable mammalian paleontological genera/subfamilies/families/orders to vital article nominations. I know that the biology, animals category of level-5 articles is at its exact capacity, but fossil mammals are relatively underrepresented, especially ironically those of the Cenezoic era, so having these three pages I nominated as vital articles would be a good start. More to possibly come soon. PrimalMustelid (talk) 12:48, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nom (I suppose I should've said this earlier). --PrimalMustelid 20:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discuss

Remove Philosopher

This has been redirected to a section of Philosophy. ForeverStamp (talk) 23:01, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Went ahead and removed it. If it's an article that was changed into a redirect, I think you can take it out without discussion. --Makkool (talk) 18:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I wasn't sure what the rules on that are. --ForeverStamp (talk) 01:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move Saint Marinus from Politicians to Religious figures

The article doesn't really seem to be about holding any political title or office pbp 14:13, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 14:14, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:49, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Swap Egyptian mongoose for Indian grey mongoose

Mongoose is Vital-4. We currently list two types of mongooses at Vital-5: The Meerkat and the Egyptian mongoose. I only noticed this because I looked up meerkats; I didn't realize they were a type of mongoose. When I think of "mongoose", I think of the mongoose of Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, the cobra-fighting mongoose of Rudyard Kipling's short story. He is an Indian grey mongoose. So, to me that is the most well-known type of mongoose besides the meerkat, and deserves to be vital. This swap will be beneficial for several other reasons. For one, the Egyptian mongoose article is currently in better shape than the Indian grey mongoose article, so the Indian grey mongoose article needs work in comparison. Also, since meerkats and Egyptian mongooses are both from Africa, replacing one of them with an Asian mongoose will make our list broader (at least, mongoose-wise). Lastly, Indian grey mongoose receives around twice the views of Egyptian mongoose: 6,484 views of Indian grey mongoose compared to 3,221 views of Egyptian mongoose in the past 30 days.

Support:

  1. As nom LightProof1995 (talk) 05:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral:

  1. The Egyptian mongoose's range covers most of sub-Saharan Africa and also northeastern Africa and a little bit of Turkey and Spain, which is larger than the Indian grey mongoose's range, which is only the Indian subcontinent. Adding the Indian grey mongoose is better for geographical diversity, but either way, they are both pretty equal. And a single children's story, even if it's written by Rudyard Kipling, shouldn't be the deciding argument. Mucube (talk • contribs) 21:46, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

American military removals

We have 71 American military figures, including Native Americans but excluding people like George Washington, Andrew Jackson and Dwight Eisenhower who are listed elsewhere. That's too many, especially since the section is over quota. pbp 02:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Patrick Cleburne

We have too many American Civil War figures, over a dozen, and he's not really that significant. I doubt he's in anybody's list of the 10 most significant Confederate generals. pbp 02:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 19:28, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Lorax (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Robert A. McClure

We have too many American World War II figures, over a dozen, and he's not really that significant. pbp 02:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 19:28, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Frank Merrill

We have too many American World War II figures, over a dozen, and he's not really that significant. pbp 02:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 19:28, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aszx5000 (talk) 19:23, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support. Lorax (talk) 00:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove Jim Mattis, Pat Tillman, Janis Karpinski and Tommy Franks

How many figures from Afghanistan/Iraq/War on Terror do we need, exactly? David Petraeus is sufficient enough to represent the War on Terror. pbp 02:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. pbp 02:53, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

High School Musical in level-5

Good morning! I have an important question - why is an article about High School Musical removed from the list of 50 thousand must-haves in all sections of Wikipedia? The film has a high profile among the Disney projects of the 2000s - for example, it was included in the Guinness Book of Records as the first television film, whose nine songs from the soundtrack hit the Billboard Hot 100 chart. In addition, this trilogy is unique in that the wild popularity of the first two parts led to the release of High School Musical 3: Senior Year in theaters. --MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 06:18, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Films are currently slightly overquota, and anti-recentism is also a factor to some extent. I undid its addition to re-add Steamboat Willie, which I consider more important for its copyright drama alone. But if you can identify less important films that it should replace, then, sure.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:39, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@LaukkuTheGreit In your opinion, does the idea of introduction require careful discussion? Moreover, this project has grown into a large media franchise with foreign television adaptations, a concert tour, ice shows and school productions. MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

About Sergei Makarov

Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/5/People/Sports_figures includes this internal link, however it is a now disambiguation page. I want to fix it but am unsure whether it refers to a right winger or a defenceman. I guess it refers to the former, but still want to hear what other editors think.--RekishiEJ (talk) 15:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is the right winger (the VA template was added to their TP in 2018). Aszx5000 (talk) 23:45, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Basshunter

Basshunter is one of the greatest Swedish musicians. He was the first Swedish artist who achieved commercial success in the United Kingdom since ABBA (level-4 vital article) and his work influenced Avicii music (level-5 vital article). Eurohunter (talk) 12:37, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
Oppose
  1. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:42, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Discussion

Add Tunguska event and maybe replace

I don't know where to put this but it has high importance on WikiProject Russia and mid importance on most of the other WikiProjects listed. In 74 languages and currently rated B-Class. 115.188.131.12 (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support
  1. As nom 115.188.131.12 (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Largest impact event in Earth's recorded history czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:41, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support Lorax (talk) 00:46, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. support LJFIN2 (talk) LJFIN2 (talk) 03:14, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Discussion

Add Thanos (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Thanos is part of the biggest movie franchise ever and has had extensive coverage over the last 5+ years with critical acclaim. I know there's a chance of recency bias, but things have been pretty consistently positive towards the character since 2018. The article has also recently become a GA. -- ZooBlazertalk 07:21, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:41, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove 8 of the sorting algorithms from the mathematics section

Quicksort and bubble sort are the only sorting algorithms that are widely used. Bucket sort, Gnome sort, Heapsort, Insertion sort, Merge sort, Radix sort, Selection sort, and Shellsort don't belong here nor is there any need for this list to have ten sorting algorithms. I have some ideas of other algorithms that are more vital but that should be a separate thread LJFIN2 (talk) 08:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  1. Support as stated. If we want to get into bikeshedding, I'd actually drop bubble sort as well (it's primarily didactic and not actually seriously used except in specific situations where it's known that it won't hit its (very frequent) bad cases, much like insertion sort), and keep merge sort (I had the impression it was the go-to stable sorting algorithm and so was actually quite widely used) and maybe one of radix or bucket sort (because they're non-comparison sorts). But ten articles on specific algorithms, plus sorting algorithm to make eleven, is quite clearly excessive coverage for this topic and which could be better spent elsewhere. Polyphemus Goode (talk) 10:47, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    in my mind bubble was the go-to algroithum if people just needed to sort a small list that I said it should stay maybe I was wrong. ~~~ LJFIN2 (talk) 15:55, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support per above czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:40, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Discussion — Preceding unsigned comment added by LJFIN2 (talk • contribs) 03:50, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Add Punctuated equilibrium

Punctuated equilibrium belongs under biology>basics because it's a very important theory in evolutionary biology. It provides a more fleshed-out explanation of evolution then other theories and it's taught in nearly every university level course on evolution. --LJFIN2 (talk) 03:49, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Oppose

  1. Oppose. Would want to see a swap, given the size of the evolutionary biology category. This topic, while important within its field, seems less vital than the topics already included. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add Pomegranate juice

Pomegranate juice it has been viewed over 8,715 times in 60 days. Catfurball (talk) 19:11, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Oppose

  1. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:39, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add Cherry juice

Cherry juice it has been view over 6,168 times in 60 days. Catfurball (talk) 19:12, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Oppose

  1. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:38, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Oppose. Lorax (talk) 00:48, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Midlife crisis

Everyday Life/Stages of Life has 14 out of 15 alloted articles. I think Midlife crisis would be a good fit for the 15th article. According to it's topic page 23% of people self report having had one so that would make it a vital topic.LJFIN2 (talk) 02:48, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Support

Oppose

  1. Oppose. Not "highest importance" in its field. No assertion of its enduring importance or essentialness in its category. Not vital. czar 02:47, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Aszx5000 (talk) 23:39, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5&oldid=1149968786"