Talk:United States Air Force/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Leading cause of death in the USAF

Is it notable enough to indicate what is the single largest cause of injury and death to Air Force members?

Hint: This is the service that trains to operate the most high performance vehicles in the world... Hcobb (talk) 01:43, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

haha probably not, but if the other armed forces pages have it then I dont see why not. Although I imagine it will be a rather unuseful addition.P0PP4B34R732 (talk) 01:55, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Once again Hcobb, please be direct with what it is you want added to the article, and please back it up with a source. You've been around long enough to know how to propose article changes properly. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 02:05, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

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Hidden note about Growler?

Would it be worthwhile to direct people trying to edit in the Super Hornet to the one USAF unit that trains EWOs to fly in Growlers? Hcobb (talk) 03:07, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Assuming you are referring to this edit, no, a hidden note is not necessary. This wasn't a case of someone mistaking the Growler for a Super Hornet, but rather someone trying to add the entire Hornet family as a USAF aircraft. At this time, such a hidden note would be a solution in search of a problem. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 06:27, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Core functions vs operational functions

Do we need both lists? Could we drop the list from the lead and just use the list under operational functions? Hcobb (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

No. One is the Air Force core values, more of a moral and ethical standard. The other is what the Air Force actually does. They are not substitutable with the other, they are not about the same thing. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 21:14, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

No, that's a third (unrelated list). The current sequence is:

• Lead - The USAF articulates its core functions ... (Dozen listed are duplicate with operational functions below)
• Lead - The core values of the Air Force are ... (Sounds like it belongs down in culture)
• 1 Mission - 1.1 Operational functions - The Air Force describes its mission in terms of 17 operational functions: (The list expands from 12 to 17 by breaking some items into multiple parts.)

Hcobb (talk) 01:21, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

And Agile Combat Support is purely in support of special ops? Not according to the added ref. Hcobb (talk) 18:03, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Mission subheadings

An editor removed many mission subheadings. I feel that the article was better with the mission subheadings included. What do other editors think about this? Pine^talk 03:20, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

There were way too many subheadngs under Core Functions. A subheading per paragraph does really help the reader and fills up the table of contents. -Fnlayson (talk) 03:26, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

How about at least boldfacing the names of each function for easier reading? Pine^talk 04:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Friday Name Tags

Is this truly a recent change on the same scope and scale as the others mentioned in this section? If so, can it be linked to a larger change in Air Force traditions? This seems to be (relative to the rest of the section) a minor change that only impacts a small segment of the Air Force. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.132.164.86 (talk) 19:37, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

High Speed Strike Weapon

Where does the High Speed Strike Weapon page go?

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06/hypersonic-missiles/

Hcobb (talk) 03:09, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Date Air Force was created

On 26 July 1947, President Harry S. Truman approved the National Security Act of 1947, which created the National Military Establishment, including the Office of Secretary of Defense and the Departments of the Army, Navy, and Air Force.

Not 18 Sept.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.91.89.32 (talk) 06:27, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Read the reference for that text, U.S. Air Force fact sheet. -Fnlayson (talk) 15:27, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Trimming down the culture section

I'd like to say something short like "The USAF is the armed service of the future. It always has been, and it always will be", but that would be OR. So how do we balance the futuristic aspirations of the service vs. the all too human failings along the way? Hcobb (talk) 03:02, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Why does the culture section need to trimmed? Are you instead suggesting a rewrite and if so, why? I'm sure it isn't perfect - and seems to be poorly written with several bullets rather than in prose form - but I think I might be missing your point. Ckruschke (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke

Order of Battle link

Hi, I'd like to include a link on this page to an order of battle for the USAF: http://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/United_States_Air_Force_OOB_Current and I figured since this was my site that it wouldn't be good for me to add the link as it could be interpreted as me advertising my site. If you think this order of battle for the USAF is worth including here please add a link in an appropriate spot.

Thank you Baloogan (talk) 21:05, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Is the Air Force Constitutional?

After WW II when the USAF was being created, some people questioned the constitutionality of an Air Force, since our glorious Constitution only provides for an Army and a Navy. You know those strict constructionists. Shouldn't there be at least a paragraph on this?209.179.51.140 (talk) 03:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I know nothing about your "glorious constitution" but the fact the Air Force was created as a legal entity by an Act of Congress really makes any such complaints by a "some people" really not relevant and of little weight in what is an overview of the USAF. MilborneOne (talk) 11:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Given that we'd already had a Coast Guard as a separate branch for more than 150 years at the time of the founding of the independent Air Force, the issue was already moot. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 12:17, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, it probably seems like a hassle to conform to a constitution (for those who don't have one), but liberals have been able to ignore it when they want or somehow find what they want when they read between the lines (hey, if you can find the right to kill your unborn child, you can find almost anything). But not everyone is so nonchalant about it.

Long ago in college I read an article on Constitutional issues. For example, Thomas Jefferson initially refused the Louisiana Purchase and wanted a Const. admen. passed first giving the government the right to do it. (He once vetoed a bill that helped pay for a bridge across the Potomac, saying that if Virginia and Maryland wanted a bridge, they should pay for it all by themselves. What a concept.) The only other point I remember from what I read was about the Air Force.

And I don't think the Coast Guard is a good example, as it was originally created under the Treasury Dept. as an enforcer of duties and tariffs. I really don't see why someone would say the Constitutional question is moot or irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.179.51.140 (talk) 03:22, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The Constitution grants the authority to Congress to raise armies. The way I see it, and I think the easiest way to silence any sort of "strict constructionalist" who is such a nay-sayer, is that the Air Force is an army, albeit an army specializing in these new-fangled artillery platforms called "airplanes" and "rockets". Hence, I'd say any questions regarding Constitutionality are moot. --KRAPENHOEFFER! TALK 21:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Mission vs budget

Is the percentage of the budget devoted to each mission area notable? (see the pie chart here for breakdown: http://www.defenseone.com/state-of-defense/?oref=search_state%20of%20the%20air%20force#air-force ) Hcobb (talk) 17:13, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View - A Christian Organization?

I think that the statement under the culture section that the United States Airforce is a Christian organization is inconsistent with a neutral point of view. An oath requiring airmen to acknowledge God may be on the books, but it is inconsistent with the Establishment Clause and the sentence in question should be rephrased accordingly. After all, all US Government bodies and organizations directed by it are supposed to be secular in nature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.112.227.81 (talk) 16:48, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

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F-35 Operation

I noticed that someone added the F-35 with a source that the USAF now operates the F-35 in an official capacity (and operational): http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/616055/first-operational-f-35as-arrive-at-hill-afb.aspx?source=GovD

But that it was removed because it hasn't achieved IOC yet. I personally feel that if its moved to a fighter or training squadron it should be added to the aircraft list. Is there any Wikipedia statement saying that IOC is required for it to be added? 24.192.250.124 (talk) 22:20, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

If you don't get an answer here, you can ask on the WikiProject: Aircraft talk page. - ^theWOLFchild 23:16, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

The F-35 can not be deployed for operational use until it is fielded. So it is not really in the inventory until then. -Fnlayson (talk) 03:23, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

can you please define fielded? These units (based on the Air Force link) are under Air Combat Command and part of an operational fighter squadron. Although it's not IOC they source says that the units are "combat coded" and the title say that they are the first "operational F-35As". That seems to suggest fielded, at least according to the USAF. 24.192.250.124 (talk) 03:57, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Since there has been no response on this talk-page in 5 days I will be re adding the F-35 to the inbox unless anyone opposes the move. If so please speak up so we can come to a consensus on the matter. 24.192.250.124 (talk) 01:55, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

No, do not re-add unless you can provide a reliable source that specifically states the F-35 is IOC, per Fnlayson's comment above. - ^theWOLFchild 02:45, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

The source cites that the F-35 is operational, and part of an operational squadron. Where is the policy or requirement that it must be IOC to be added to the infobox, even if it is operated in an official capacity, as the citation says, by the USAF? Also he did not provide a definition of fielded. The operational status given to the aircraft would seem to indicate fielded, even if it is not currently IOC. These are also combat coded aircraft, and not part of a test or evaluation unit, but rather the first part of an operational squadron under Air Combat Command. My citation is an official Air Force press release, stating that these are operational aircraft. 24.192.250.124 (talk) 04:12, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

• Fielded means awarded initial operating capacity (IOC) and can be deployed for combat. There has some rare cases where aircraft where deemed critical and deployed for combat while in testing, e.g. RQ-4 Global Hawk and E-8 Joint STARS. -Fnlayson (talk) 05:09, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Do you have an official citation for an Air Forcd Instruction saying that? My understanding is that IOC for the F-35 isn't being based on combat capability, but rather when the first squadron reaches half strength. So combat coded imply a that they could, if they really needed to, deployed them.24.192.250.124 (talk) 11:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

My understanding is that IOC for the F-35 isn't being based on combat capability, but rather when the first squadron reaches half strength. So combat coded imply a that they could, if they really needed to, deployed them. Do you have a source that supports that? - ^theWOLFchild 21:07, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

http://breakingdefense.com/documents/services-set-ioc-dates-for-f-35s-confidence-is-the-watchword/ “Air Force F-35A initial operational capability (IOC) shall be declared when the first operational squadron is equipped with 12-24 aircraft, and Airmen are trained, manned, and equipped to conduct basic Close Air Support (CAS), Interdiction, and limited Suppression and Destruction of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD/DEAD) operations in a contested environment. Based on the current F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) schedule, the F-35A will reach the IOC milestone between August 2016 (Objective) and December 2016 (Threshold). Should capability delivery experience changes or delays, this estimate will be revised appropriately I should also amend me previous statement, that IOC is only partially based on the planes capability, but the "combat coded" aspect states that it is combat ready, at least on a basic level.24.192.250.124 (talk) 22:18, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

According to your source; "The Air Force F-35A will reach the IOC milestone by December 2016.". So I guess we can put this issue to rest for now. - ^theWOLFchild 22:35, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Only if we're using IOC as the bench mark. We still haven't really talked about that yet. If we do use IOC I'm fine with that, however think that there should be a unified Wikipedia policy so we don't have this discussion evertime an aircraft becomes operational in the Air Force but not yet IOC. Thanks for sticking with this, I appreciate it. 24.192.250.124 (talk) 22:44, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

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Moved MQ-1 and MQ-9 from recon to attack

Now that these two aircraft have been moved by the USAF to attack squadrons to reflect their attack role can we do the same hereGaruda28 (talk) 22:23, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree, that move should be made. 2600:100E:B00C:4A5E:68DF:8C5B:C778:7D72 (talk) 14:25, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Ill get on itGaruda28 (talk) 19:04, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Pre-Air Force conflicts

Since the Air Force has the linage of its predecessor organizations and has the campaign streamers of WWI and WWII I propose adding those conflicts to the main infobox. Garuda28 (talk) 19:20, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I'd agree with that. It makes sense since they've got The lineage directly carried over from their predecessors. 65.152.162.3 (talk) 21:33, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Billy Mitchell

The opening sentence in Billy Mitchell describes him as the "father of the US Air Force". There was some discussion on this four years ago at that article's talk page, in which numerous citations were provided for this epithet. Nonetheless, I still see no mention of him on this page at all, and while he does have a section in the History of the United States Air Force article, it doesn't seem to acknowledge the apparent influence he's now attributed. Surely he should be covered in more depth on both of these articles per the opinions of him cited on his article's talk page? Walkersam (talk) 20:48, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

He really should. If I get some time Ill start working on adding him into the history section. Thanks for bringing this up. Garuda28 (talk) 20:01, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Change role from Air force to Aerospace force?

Since the Air Force is also the lead service for space in addition to air (per http://spacenews.com/secretary-wilson-air-force-to-step-up-advocacy-of-space/)

Propose changing type from "air force" to "aerospace force" based on the offical citations listed bellow: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronautics-and-astronautics/16-891j-space-policy-seminar-spring-2003/readings/taf.pdf https://www.afrotc.com/college-life/courses http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a338559.pdf https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/2007/MR1075.pdf

In essence the USAF has moved beyond just being a pure air force to also being responsible as a space force, something that many USAF units and publications have adopted in recognition of this new role.

Alternatively I feel that we could re-title it air and space force as supported by the name Air and Space Operations Center. http://www.northcom.mil/Newsroom/Fact-Sheets/Article-View/Article/564002/air-forces-northern/

If it is preferable to keep air force as a standalone in the title we could add space force below it, but I feel that it is important to ensure that it is recognized that both air and space are the responsibility of the USAF. Garuda28 (talk) 19:56, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I don't like it -- but, that has little to do with whether it should be on Wikipedia. That being said, there seems to be no official sources calling the Air Force an aerospace force. Yes, there is the whitepaper you linked to, but that's just a white paper, which is just what a previous CSAF of the Air Force envisioned... and current leadership doesn't seem to be using that term at all. There is also no major mention of aerospace force on [1] based on a quick google search (unless I'm missing something major). I just don't think there's enough official backing to change this right now. --Bassmadrigal (talk) 16:57, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Understand what your saying. The white paper is an official source, since it was written while they were both (CSAF and SECAF) in office, thus making it an official policy statement, but I'm going to try to find some more up to date sources on that as well. Do you have a good way to reflect its significant space responsibilities in the type infobox? Update on that: here's an article on global security describing it as "The Air Force is moving into the 21st century as an expeditionary aerospace force"

(https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/aef-intro.htm), from Vison 2020 "We’ll provide an

environment that encourages all our people to achieve personal and professional excellence, taking pride in being part of the aerospace force that’s respected the world over." (http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/virtual_disk_library/index.cgi/4240529/FID521/pdfdocs/2020/afvision.pdf) (also used on the current AFROTC website https://www.afrotc.com/about/mission which indicates current official usage of the term) Garuda28 (talk) 19:14, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

It's an official source of the vision of a previous administration. As far as I know, aerospace has not been adopted in any pertinent AFIs or documents. Also, in that second pdf you linked, it provides a link on the first page to [2] which is now a 404. A google search of "air force vision" leads you to [3], which does not mention aerospace anywhere. Searching for "goldfein aerospace" doesn't bring up any articles with him discussing it as well as searching for "goldfein vision 2020". So it seems this is no longer something the current Air Force administration is pursuing (at least, not at this time).

Finally, it is almost always covered that the Air Force does "Air, Space, and Cyberspace". I feel like if we change the wiki to aerospace, it should also have something to cover the cyber aspect of it. So should we have aerospace/cyberspace force? That looks even worse (although, I do admit, the look of it is strictly a subjective opinion).

All this being said, I'm not sure it even needs to be documented there. Right underneath, it states that the USAF role is "control of air, space, and cyberspace". Do we really need to have that information duplicated? In my opinion, unless the name of the US Air Force changes to US Aerospace Force, it should remain as Air force for the type. --Bassmadrigal (talk) 20:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

You make some really good points. I'm on a phone right now, so the 404 could be a typo on my part. After looking around it seems that the proper term used by the USAF is "Air and space force", but since I'm on a phone right now I'll wait till tonight to list sources and make my argument (but your right about Aerospace Force being outdated. I reverted my edit pending the conclusion of this conversation and will ping you when I get an updated argument up. Thanks! Garuda28 (talk) 21:09, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

The 404 error was not the link you provided, but rather a link in that document to an Air Force webpage that is no longer active. It just doesn't seem like the Air Force is actively pursuing Vision 2020 anymore. --Bassmadrigal (talk) 01:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

• (E/C) I am in agreement with Bassmadrigal's post above. In addition, I believe mentioning space in the first sentence is giving undue weight. "Space Superiority" is mentioned later as the USAF's core function among other functions. --Finlayson (talk) 21:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

On the topic of space in the first sentence I dont believe it is undue weight, as the Air Force is considered (and as stated in citations) to be the primary space force for the US, so it's merely stating what both primary domains are. Space is also reviving a much higher emphasis from Air Force leadership. By the same logic Air shouldn't be mentioned since Air superiority is one of the core functions. Garuda28 (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

• My point is about the difference between main and secondary missions; the various missions don't have equal importance or equal priority in the budget. The sentence excludes other missions like nuclear deterrent that are not directly covered by air and space warfare as well. --Finlayson (talk) 00:50, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

• Understand what your saying. My response to that the main article is not for missions, but rather the primary domains that the Air Force is responsible for. Aerial warfare references in the intro paragraph more to the domain than any specific mission, which are focused more in on the core functions. Space rather is a domain, which just as many core functions (or missions) are executed through. Having it in the main paragraph acknowledges that the Air Force is both the primary aerial warfare and space warfare force in the U.S. Armed Forces, and provides context to those who do not know it has those responsibilities. To quote from AFDD 1-1 "Just as airpower grew from its initial use as an adjunct to surface operations, space and cyberspace have likewise grown from their original manifestations as supporting capabilities into war fighting arenas in their own right." (https://doctrine.af.mil/download.jsp?filename=V1-D21-Airpower.pdf). This is an acknowledgment by the Air Force that space is not a mission (however both space and air superiority are missions, and missions such as ISR are done from space), but rather a domain. To address a question that may come up on why not to mention cyber, it is because the Air Force (nor any other branch has been designated the primary cyber force, and thus none has the joint claim to the domain that the Air Force does to space.)Garuda28 (talk) 02:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

To address the original question at hand "Air and space force" is used by a number official documents and by high level defense officials, including:

• Doctrine/Official DOD sources: in AFDD 1 (1997) "To provide the nation’s air and space force with a common, integrated vision, Air Force doctrine..." (http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/virtual_disk_library/index.cgi/4240529/FID1556/pdfdocs/jel/service/afd1.pdf); and in AFDD 2 (2016 two quotes used "...symbolizes space as the high ground of our nation’s air and space force..." and " serve as a force unmatched in our air and space." (https://doctrine.af.mil/download.jsp?filename=Volume-2-Leadership.pdf); From DOD's APAN (which is for unclassified DOD information sharing) "The US Air Force is an integrated air and space force" (https://wss.apan.org/s/JSOFUN/Shared%20Documents/JSO%20101/T3_Sheets/MOD2_Activity2_T3_ServiceCapabilities_FactSheet.pdf); from Chapter 23 Joint Operations (2014) ", in building what is now the world's only truly global air and space force.” (http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/OLH_2015_Ch23.pdf); From Air and Space Basic Course School (2011) "to become the world's most respected air and space force" (http://usafunithistory.com/PDF/A-E/AIR%20AND%20SPACE%20BASIC%20COURSE%20SCHOOL.pdf); "airmen the most advanced of any air and space force on the planet." (http://science.dodlive.mil/2013/03/29/air-force-pilots-going-paperless/); In 2009 report to 109th Congress "The United States Air Force is the premier air and space force with the ability to reach across the spectrum of..." (http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA494620); from 2017 portraits in courage "The world’s greatest air and space force also relies on heroes on the ground." (http://static.dma.mil/usaf/70/pic17.pdf); from AFMC's mission statement " From cradle-to-grave, AFMC provides the work force and infrastructure necessary to ensure the United States remains the world's most respected air and space force." (http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104481/air-force-materiel-command/); "air and space force Preferred term vs. aerospace force." (http://www.af.mil/portals/1/documents/homepage/afjournalisticstyleguidedecember2013.pdf)

The bottom line is that this is a commonly used term within the Air Force to describe itself, and even if you do not feel that it validates changing the type, it does indeed justify keeping aerial warfare and space warfare separate, since the Air Force acknowledges these differences in its own doctrine, documents, and mission statements. Garuda28 (talk) 03:30, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Propose under Active tab in infobox adding antecedent organization

Propose that under the current 18 September 1947 we add 1 August 1907 (first antecedent), with it hyperlinked to United States Air Force#Antecedents, the source being that the USAF derives a direct tradition and linage from these organizations, and though it considers its birthday to be on 18 September 1947, it also traces its direct heritage back to the Aeronautical Division, U.S. Signal Corps. The direct quote from the USAF website is "For over a century, the U.S. Air Force has defended this country in the air, space and cyberspace through the skill and the bravery of American Airmen." (https://www.airforce.com/mission/history), which is ample evidence that the USAF tradition as a single cohesive organization extends back to the Aeronautical Division.Garuda28 (talk) 03:26, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Concur, with enthusiasm, for the proposed hyperlink. CobraDragoon (talk) 13:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Propose changing the main image from DAF Seal to Air Force Symbol

After seeing that the United States Navy page changed its main image from the DON seal to the emblem of the U.S. Navy I thought it might be a good idea to do that here as well. My reasoning is a) the DAF Seal belongs to the Department of the Air Force, not the United States Air Force, and while they are similar they are still different. and b) that the USAF Symbol is more representative of the USAF and often used instead of the DAF Seal on official Air Force pages and is more recognizable. For further reading: http://www.airman.af.mil/Portals/17/002%20All%20Products/003%20PACEsetters/Meaning_Air_Force_Symbol.pdf?ver=2016-03-30-001043-347 Garuda28 (talk) 18:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Just to clarify the Department of the Air Force Seal is not the emblem of the United States Air Force, but rather its parent organization, the Department of the Air Force. For similar conversations on this topic please see: Talk:United States Army#Propose changing the main image from DA Seal to Army Symbol for more rational.Garuda28 (talk) 06:26, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Disagree - I think as the Seal should prevail over the logo. The Dept. of the Air Force / USAF is one in the same. FOX 52 (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

If it were the Seal of just the United States Air Force I would agree with you - but it is not. The Department of the Air Force and USAF are not one and the same, but rather distinct entity. Just as the Department of the Navy is distinct from the Marine Corps (and Navy), so too is the Department of the Air Force different from the USAF. If you look at 10 U.S. Code Part I they are two distinct sections as the are not the same organization. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/subtitle-D/part-I). Moreover in JP 01 a military department is defined as "One of the departments within the Department of Defense created by the National Security Act of 1947, which are the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, and the Department of the Air Force." This is distinctly different from a service branch. Garuda28 (talk) 01:00, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Agree here. There is another article for DAF at United States Department of the Air Force where the seal is the main image. -Finlayson (talk) 23:23, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

So do I. They are two distinct organizations. Given the consensus here I will revert back to the image of the USAF Symbol. Since this is the current precedence lets keep this discussion open, but for now the status quo should stand given this discussion here and the same discussion at Talk:United States Army#Propose changing the main image from DA Seal to Army Symbol. Moreover "The Air Force Symbol is the official symbol of the United States Air Force."(http://www.trademark.af.mil/About-Us/The-Air-Force-Symbol/).Garuda28 (talk) 01:00, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

President vs. Commander-in-Chief

Talk:United States Armed Forces#Infobox: President vs. Commander-in-ChiefGaruda28 (talk) 18:15, 29 November 2017 (UTC)