Wikipedia talk:Featured article criteria

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2017

Remove cross-wiki links at the bottom, already listed in the Wikidata. 219.79.180.60 (talk) 04:49, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

 Not done The link at the bottom links to the specific part of the page that is relevant; that doesn't appear to be possible via Wikidata. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:46, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

location

When citing books, is adding the location necessary? It seems tedious and adds nothing of value to the article. I've got an article where one citation includes location and about 40 other sources to manually look up and add location as a result. Seems easier to just remove the one location that to add the other approx. 40. SpartaN (talk) 17:37, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Presumably, you mean the location of the publisher; the FA criteria neither require nor forbid this location. What is demanded by the FA criteria is consistency: so either all of the refs should have the publisher's location, or none should. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:02, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

what Redrose said...I won't demand locations unless there are problems with inconsistency. I will say that as someone who checks sources, locations do help, as anything out of the ordinary will often help flag up an unreliable/self-published source...but they are not required Ealdgyth - Talk 22:13, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more strongly. Style should never be allowed to triumph over verifiability. The "consistent" requirement is intended to avoid a mix of citation styles (e.g. parenthetic vs <ref></ref> tags). It is not to ensure that bibliographic information is minimized. Since not every source cited in an article will have the same set of bibliographic information available to relate @Redrose64:'s interpretation would imply citing to the least common denominator: a very poor policy. In the particular, a location is sometimes necessary to distinguishing similarly named publishers or publications. If a different unique identifier is provided then the location may not be useful to a reader, but it never hurts to provide the location when it is available. In the spirit of wp:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT, it's certainly possible for different printings to vary even if they bear the same year and publisher. LeadSongDog come howl! 14:04, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any policy or guideline that requires locations for references, however. The problem of which edition/printing a work is can be solved by using ISBN/OCLCs to distinguish. I always use locations, but absent a requirement for them somewhere, we can't require them at FAC. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:27, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Images

Can an article not contain images? Some topics simply dont have free images available yet satisfy all other criteria. So, are images a reason for an article to fail?.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 00:04, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

It's not specifically mandatory. The criteria say to include media "where appropriate". But I expect reviewers would question it, since most FAs do have images. --RL0919 (talk) 00:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

If I were reviewing a FAC with no images, I'd be likely to ask if there were possible images for inclusion, but I wouldn't oppose if there were good reasons for not including any. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:43, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Roger Norreis is a FA without images. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:49, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 07:03, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Can an article with self-published source pass Featured article criteria?

I am developing an article about a Vietnamese movie and considering to use at least 5 sources from its Facebook page for Marketing section because none of VNese publication mentioned the information that I need (I used to concern about the use of Facebook a few weeks ago). Although I've not finished yet but I estimate this article will have about 50 sources. Base on WP:SELFPUB, self-published sources such as Facebook can be used as sources of information about themselves. However, after reading this candidate, a reviewer said that Facebook is not a high-quality source while WP:FACR require this criteria (1c-well-researched). Can anyone give me advice? Phamthuathienvan (talk) 11:32, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

If the information you want to include can only be sourced to Facebook, consider carefully whether that information really warrants inclusion. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:04, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Nikkimaria makes a good point; there a many kinds of details that might seem somewhat interesting, but are not essential. Rather than bring down the sourcing quality of an otherwise well-sourced article, such details could be omitted. That said, if a piece of information does seem important to include and the only source is the subject's Facebook page, then it could be used, assuming all the SELFPUB criteria are met. (For one thing, be sure that this is actually an official page for the subject, not a fan page.) But an article that relies heavily on such sources is not a good FA candidate. --RL0919 (talk) 22:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I can't imagine any circumstances in which a social media site would be a reliable source other than specifically for the contents of a social media post ("on November 3, Donald Trump tweeted that…") and even then we'd really need third-party sources discussing the post to demonstrate that it was notable, and the link to the original post would just be for verification purposes. To answer the broader question, yes there are occasional circumstances when self-published sources can be deemed reliable. One that comes up reasonably often is when an undisputed expert in a field and author of a major work on a subject self-publishes a supplementary work for those interested in a particular aspect of the field which doesn't have the broad interest necessary to sustain a mainstream publication. (To take an example from a real-life FA, Metropolitan Railway includes quite a few citations from Chesham Shuttle, self-published by Clive Foxell; because Foxell was—among his many other achievements—an undoubted expert on the Metropolitan Railway, that source is vanishingly unlikely to be challenged.) ‑ Iridescent 18:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Criterion 1c

Criterion 1c requires featured articles to be based on "a thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature". But can a survey be both "thorough" and "representative" at the same time? The two terms seem to be mutually exclusive; "thorough" means complete in every detail, "representative" means a sample. The point has arisen from a current FAC review, but to my mind the wording presents a general problem, and perhaps requires reconsideration. Does anyone agree? Brianboulton (talk) 17:44, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Brian, I understand "representative" to refer to the sources a subject-matter expert would expect to see, so "thorough and representative" means "don't leave anything out that an expert would expect to see used as a source in an article of this length." SarahSV ^(talk) 18:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree (with Brian), and if you have long memories you may remember my complaining about the "thorough" at the time. For any broad topic, a "thorough survey of the relevant literature" is impossible (do you really think the authors of Sea or Jesus conducted a thorough review of every relevant book on the topic?). Consequently, by having a criterion that's literally impossible to satisfy, WP:FA has developed an unhealthy culture of turning a blind eye and of "the criteria mean whatever I want them to mean", which in turn feeds into its at least partly deserved reputation as a clique of insiders slapping each other on the backs. ‑ Iridescent 18:55, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

"Thorough" does seem impractical for some subjects. But before changing the criterion, I would ask: are there problematic cases that "thorough" weeds out that would not be stopped by "representative" in conjunction with the remaining criteria? If there are articles that should not be considered FA that are only stopped by the "thorough" part of the criterion, then before changing it we should at least think of some alternative wording to cover those cases. --RL0919 (talk) 19:50, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Featured Article

I wish to help with. RCNesland (talk) 17:19, 13 November 2017 (UTC)