Talk:Eve Online

Empires

I changed five to four and removed jovian empire. There is no such race in the game. I have played eve for the last year, only four races. There are several incorrect references in this article. I am going to attempt to fix as many as I can find.

I guess you need to play for longer then. There are five races - be more observant and you might see some Jovians. Give you a clue: they often have yellow text in Local and fly scary ships. Perhaps if you'd be kind enough to discuss changes to "incorrect references" in the talk page before making them. Wiki-Ed 19:07, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

You can't play them. So what diffrence does it make? You only get to play one of the main four races. Why not stick some of the rat races up there? A note should be made that you can't play it, or it should be removed.

Race, not faction. There are only five races (which is what it says). Factions, bloodlines, corporations and individual characters are not listed. It's not about what is playable at the moment. Besides, some people play Jovians at the moment and apparently normal players will be able to at some point in the future - as well as use the large area of space that they occupy... it won't stay locked forever. Wiki-Ed 22:47, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok I will go with that. Sorry to just edit...

If we were editing on the basis of ugliness I'd remove them too :P Wiki-Ed 08:26, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

LOL, I was removing them on their irrelivence in the game. My personal opinion is Jove is where the Developers play on the live server. Thats my 2 cents.

The Jovians are a Race, Listed on the website, and a Faction, as tehre is Jovian Space. never been there, but it exists. You can also have standings with the Jovians

Suggested Changes

• The small fee to activate your account is $20
• Possibly note that although there are no shards or instances that standard market transactions are limited to your current region
• Definition of Stabs... are there T2 Stabs out ATM? If so this def could be revised(who would pay for a T2 stab)

By all means add the fee (Euros too) and fiddle with the stabiliser definition if correct (I haven't seen standard T2 stabs). With the shards thing... standard transactions are limited, but this is not a limitation of the game - it's a deliberate feature. Also escrow acts as a rare items market and streches across the whole of EVE. Presumably other MMORPG have no equivalent linking their shards? Wiki-Ed 15:30, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

No there is no other MMORPG with well linked shards. My understanding was each diffrent region was a diffrent server and that is why there was a limitation. I very well could be wrong. The escrow is definatly a way to overcome this and basically brings it to a seamless world.

Mhm, well when you put up sell/buy orders they are limited to the region you are in atm, but the actual transaction can take place wherever you are in EVE. Example: Region A has sell order, region B has buy order. Players can buy from you in region A and sell to you in region B while you are located in region C. "Each region has its own independent market system which players can put Sell Orders and Buy Orders with limited visibility to their region, although the actual transaction can take place in different region at a different time", rather than just saying standard market transactions are [simply] limited in your current region. ;P And the escrow system just doesn't care about all that ;) Oh and also, including the fee is a must imo -Gussi 18:03, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

So in other words each regions market is completley isolated from each other. Which is what I said. Yeah you can have buy and sell orders in every region, but I think it has value to mention that these dont overlap. It is probably the only seam you can see in eve, but it is there.--TonFTP 20:32, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually although the markets are intentionally kept separate (this is so that trading can be profitable between regions more than anything else) the servers that EVE runs on (i believe the SOL layer has 63 dual opteron blades, backed up by SQL servers and RAMSAN solid state storage devices) can run anything from a single solar system, to multiple regions. Larger solar systems such as Jita, will have an entire CPU dedicated to them, whereas in some quiet regions of 0.0 there may be 2 or more regions on a single CPU. The system is dynamic and can balance load as needed. As such the markets being limited to a region has nothing to do with the Cluster archetecture. Most MMOs do not run on a single server, even the WoW and MU Online private servers that have been illegally released are capeable of being run on a small cluster.

The different regions do not run on different servers. The market is sorted by region for gameplay reasons not hardware (to encourage price variation). Alex Bartho 07:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Defintion of POS: Might want to mention different sizes and raw material->simple reaction->advanced reaction->Tech2 component process.--Fenrig 14:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

• Added the two types of turrets under laser and projectile category, saw you had them for hybrids and thought you would want it balanced. Sorry I didn't consult here first. New to Wiki =x . You can take it out if you wish.

• May want to add Defender and FOF Missiles to the list of missiles, for continuity

New Background

Is it perhaps too wordy? All it is now, is quoting from a part of eve's website that can be added as a link. Bastion 04:57, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree - I think the backround section is perhaps too long and involved, and disproportionate. Maybe this could get pared down and simplified? (anon)

I have cut down this section to a summary of the background to EVE. If readers want to know more than the basics, they can use the link to the full backstory. DJMalone 12:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Eve is entirely on the same server. Shards as such do not exist. Regions denote different areas of racial control and market span.

You mean that there is 20,000 people logged onto the same server at the same time, hardware wise? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.240.136.82 (talk • contribs)

Frequently more. — pd_THOR ^{| =/\=} | 19:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Expansions

Sorry if this shouldn't be under a new section, but here goes. Should "Cold War Edition" and "Red Moon Rising" really be considered expansions? Based on my understanding, they are only major Content Patches (according to a few dev statements), but not full-scale Expansions. --Jsloan31 11:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

There is no significant distinction to be made. Alex Bartho 07:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism?

Aside from the last bullet, the criticism as of now (2222 GMT 9 November 2005) seems rather odd and is largely aimed against PvP and is highly subjective. Indeed some of the points listed as criticism are claimed by some to be the game's strongest points. There are several more effective criticism of the game that are more 'objective'.

I don't think criticisms of the game are objective at all by nature, also if they want to find out what some people perceive as "wrong" with the game they can just stop at one of the various forums or give the free trial a shot and see for themselves. --Fenrig 13:50, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

My understanding of non-objective point of view is that the information is presented in a way that allows the reader to draw their own conclusions. The criticisms that I will maintain are never stated as "good" or "bad" - although others have added a lot of other inflamed and slanted criticism which was rightly and rapidly stricken. In fact, as someone said previously, many of these game aspects have been interpreted as assets to the game (e.g. newbies being unable to enter 0.0 immediately) by many of its players. Does this mean a heading other than "criticism" is called for? In what way is the criticism subjective? I feel it would be much less NPOV to have the article present no potentially negative viewpoints on the game whatsoever. Please stop striking the first three bullets - that's what this discussion page is for.

"EVE's overall design philosophy favors PVP over PVE at each opportunity." This is your point of view, positive or negative it's still just your point of view and doesn't really belong. The rest aren't really criticisms they're facts and should be included inside "billing gameplay" heading. Check out other MMOG pages (i.e. Dark Agexampe of Camelot, World of Warcraft) do you see any criticism headings? Does that mean there aren’t any? Please stop posting you POV thats what forums are for... ---Fenrig 17:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Not so. The quote is a paraphrase of something the lead developer said and so can be considered accurate Alex Bartho 04:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC) Do you play the game? Have you read any of the dev blogs? (Those are available from the main site, by the way.) You mentioned forums, do you read those either? Being even mildly conversant with the game's design (e.g. possible to be attacked in any system whatsoever, developers trying like hell to get players out of empire) should make it reasonably clear that the game is in fact designed to emphasize the PVP aspect and discourage committed PVE play. <b>This is something that people considering joining EVE should know.</b> If, as you say, everyone "can just stop at one of the various forums or give the free trial a shot and see for themselves", then what's the use of having a wiki at all? Please take the time to acquaint yourself with reality before you act like I'm projecting my POV and saying it's NPOV.

The PvP VS PvE I dont think eve favours PVP so much over PVE only people who are dumb/lazy/ignorant and do not do all the traning missions and therfore do not get 1.0 in faction standing will most liekly not do missions and only see mining and gate camping as the whole of eve BUT those who do all traning missions do get 1.0 in faction standing which gives access to all level 1 agents in that faction can see that there is a big part of pve. Also traning the connections skill to level 1 will give you access to low quality level 2 missions.

More PvE includes complexes and cosmos and just plain rat hunting. Ofcurse for the best missions you need to do missions for pirate corps which in turn do not require you to do the traning missions. They are harder and only located in 0.0 space but these does not mean you HAVE to pvp.

I myself never pvp only sometimes on test server and i am still happy, yes i might be a mission runner complex runner and rat hunter but this does not mean i do NOT play the game, as I often say in eve there is more to eve then mining and gay pvp.

Also mining which is a huge part of eve is not pvp so saying pvp is the biggest part in eve is wrong it is a part but not the only part and since there are so many more things you can do then pvp and most likely do you can not say eve favours pvp.

Tradeing is also a part of eve, I think who ever wrote that EVE favors "PVP over PVE at each opportunity" has not done the traning missions does not do missions and does not understand the game and is most likely a gay gate camper.

Next time you play eve, take a stop-watch and time your self how often you actually pvp, gay gate camping and just siting dosent count only the fighting time counts not the sitting and waiting, count the time you actually pvp and compare that time to all the other things you do like missions, complexes, cosmos,mining setting up orders and just browesing. Do all that and you will clearly say PvP does not take up most of your time. Deng 03.05 CET

Eve does not favor PvP at every opportunity plain and simple; if it did do you think the death penalty would be so high? You lose your ship, your clone, implants and mods. Does that make you want to PvP? Would people play Planetside for example if it had death penality as high as Eve? Since you brought it up I’ve been playing for about 2 years now. Numbers of times poded: 2 and that was at a 0.4 system and I was AFK both times. I now spend most of my time (90%) of it in 0.2 space, have had a couple of run ins with pirates but none the worst for wear. I’m making a profit and I am not PvPing. You want to talk Dev blogs? Explain to me how tech 2 mining Barges favor PvP or the new mining skills? I usually stay away from the official forums, you should know why.

I choose not to PvP and :gasp: I can still enjoy the game!

PvP is usually a means to an end in Eve and is usually not done just for the hell of it. --Fenrig 14:28, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The developers disagree with you. Just because you dont PvP doesn't mean you define the point of the game. They have repeatedly said that PvP is the basis of the game and PvE is there to keep people entertained/earning isk when their buddies arn't online.

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Let's talk about the Criticism

Let's try to stick to our point ;> No offence guys but it seems that you two are arguing if eve is more of a PVP or PVE game, well, I want to bring the topic back to that damn "Criticism" in the article! I've argued about this before, and somehow my discussion thread has disappeared :| The well known NPOV warning has been put up and down here so many times, and there has been way too much fuzz about this tiny segment. It's probably useless for me to remove or rewrite it, it's just gonna pop back up anyways. So this is my final statement about this matter, ofcourse I will answer if anyone responds :-)

I'm gonna explain the situation from my point of view, please read this carefully, and respond properly if you disagree with me.

First things first, who am I. I've been EVE player for two and a half year now, started at week one playing EVE, know every aspect of the game, from being a freelance solo player, mission runner, bounty hunter, mining ;] or to fight against or side to side corporations & alliance both in south, west, and north of the eve universe. Never missed a subscription, so I do know what CCP [EVE-Online developers] have been doing for the game since its birth. But don't think I favor EVE or CCP, there has been times where I hated the game soooo much, and times when I loved it ;D Knowing that, I'm not just saying some gibberish here below, it should be neutral, and I actually know how the game works and what CCP has done in the past and will in the future. Alright, that's out of the way, on to the lovely criticism.

• "EVE's overall design philosophy favors PVP over PVE at each opportunity."

Put up as a fact, and is indeed false. A user said some CCP official stated this, well I'm not finding that exact quote but please, show me where it is. Far as I know is that CCP does not favor PVP over PVE, yes they do want to create the "ultimate virtual reality" like Reynir (If I remember correctly) said at the FanFest'05, that doesn't mean the game should be all PVP. Last year expansion was a BIG boost too PVE, LVL4 missions and complexes. It's a fact that players actually made more ingame money by doing those missions than anything else in EVE, (except trading, but that's largly NPC controlled anyhow). Than that became a problem, people left the dangerous zones of EVE to solo some LVL4 missions, so CCP did some balancing, made NPC bit tougher to beat, forcing the player to make friends and do missions together, "oh teh horror!". Also they letting agents in safe zones give less ingame money, and agents in dangerous zones more. And then it happened, this balancing was somehow an eeevil conspiricy to force players moving to dangerous zones thus more PVP! In next expansions to come the number of NPC types and their ability will be increased, so in my opinion this is false ... What To Do: It's a plain negative false fact, remove!

Oveur is quoted as saying "Eve is a PvP game with PvE side elements" Alex Bartho 07:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• "The game's design forces corporations and alliances to maintain extremely aggressive border defenses. Newer players are thus barred from meaningful participation in PVP."

This one has two points, corporations and alliances do have strong border defenses, I wont argue that, it's called gameplay... The latter one about new players being barred from "meaningful participation in PVP", I know it's harsh, but.... yeah! A day old character can't jump in a fight with a character that's two years older and expect to be as good or better as he is! That applys to [almost] every other game, both MMO and SP games. EVE is no different, but don't think of that as the end of EVE, I've trained newcomers before, some it takes within a month to become a proper PVP player, all depends on the will to learn and time spent playing ;] ... What To Do: Rewrite, or remove, or have it like that and add this point [almost] to every other game on wikipedia... ;D

This is essentially bollocks and betrays your lack of understanding. I've regularly seen 1 week old noobs in gangs taking down 2 year old vets in BSs. Its ALL down to player skill, not skillpoints. Eve IS different from every other MMO. You can start a charachter with pretty much all the skills neccessary to fly a tackling frigate and jump them in at the deepend. Furthermore, "one month old charachters" ARE new players. Alex Bartho 07:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

What you wrote is essentially bollocks, put a 1 week old noob up against a 2 year old bet with a BS, and tell me "Its ALL down to player skill, not skillpoints."

Yeah right, dont insult others when you're point is so ludicrous. --86.14.132.122 20:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Put 20 week old noobs in t1 frigs w/ corp bought gear, and they can take down almost any pvp setup. An EVE university noob class in destroyers took down a fully T2 fitted Apoc at least once that I know of. 1 v 1? Of course the 2 year player will win, in almost every situation. But eve isn't a game of 1 v 1 pvping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.131.39 (talk • contribs)

• "Defeat always carries these penalties: the cost of one clone contract, loss of all cargo and equipment, loss of ship. Ship insurance is somewhat limited. Module insurance does not even exist. Some people consider this one of the highlights of the game. It gives the player something tangible to protect and care for rather than throwing it away on a whim because they get all their money back. In this respect, EVE-Online is the most brutal MMORPG when it comes to losing something. This gives some players increased adrenaline rushes when it comes to combat. However for other players, it can cause them to quit the game out of frustration at losing everything they worked for."

This is the only point I'm quite happy with, this one does explains both sides, the writer actually spent some time thinking of this one. There was a time when my heartbeat would actually raise to a level I've never felt before, can't explain it but it's a thrilling experience. What To Do: Nothing, I like this one ;]

Criticism shouldn't be written down as three notes, it should be properly written! That's all I have to say! Oh and p.s, sawry for my bad English ;] --Gussi 21:49, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok i changed nummber 1 and nummber 2 and made them more correct as i see it and i do believe that i am correct but ofcurse i could be wrong

Deng 2005-12-10 02.07 CET

Actually you are wrong. Oveur has repeatedly said that Eve is a PvP game, and if you went to the fanfest you would know that even the PvE development team accept that PvE is somewhat "tacked on". - Alex bartho 21:20, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

• Not everyone can go to a "fan fest", perhaps you could produce a news reported article with the quote? Also, you come off rather strong armed, which some people might take offense at. -Moocats 17:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

"we’re always adding agent missions, new complexes and other PvE activity, but EVE is a PvP world – so even by selling your items on the market, you are engaging in PvP. You’re putting up market orders which are better than the next guy’s so yours get bought and not his. PvP is everywhere in EVE, it’s just an oft-overlooked fact that combat isn’t the beginning and end of it. Research, Manufacturing and Trading can be PvP activities every bit as vicious as combat"[1] Richard Slater 21:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

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PVP

• "EVE's overall design philosophy favors PVP over PVE at each opportunity."

And its true. been playing EVE for 2 years and what you guys have said is... something short of wrong. If you post a topic on the forums under the name 'PVE greater than PVP?' you will instantly get dozens of posts explaining how PVP is a larger aspect of EVE. Now, lets break it down: Selling items on the market is PVP, you are competing with other sellers who want to get their products sold for an efficient price as possible. There for, if you get all your items sold and make a lot of profit from it, you just won over the other guys who tried to sell their items. Trading is PVP, its PVP because you are trying to buy items off the market for a low price, travelling 20 jumps with those items secured in your cargo hold and then selling them at another market for a higher price. Someone else would have beat you to it if you didn't do it and you just made someone else miss out on a good offer when you made 200 million ISK in profits. Mining is PVP, you are competing with other miners in that system for the best ore. Ore never runs out in EVE? Sure it does. Low security systems close to Empire hubs e.g. Jita are loaded with miners (and priates) who compete with each other for the ore and best belts. If you just secured the best ore belt and made everyone else leave, the you just PVP'ed. You actively went against other players to get that ore. Building and researching is PVP. You want to get it done in the shortest time and at the smallest price, so you can be better than your competitors who build the same ships and items you. Doing complexes is PVP, you wait for hours for the spawn to respawn and then you hit it, before those other dudes who are waiting. You just prevented someone from making potential hundreds of millions of ISK and that is PVP. Then there is standard PVP where ship vs ship or fleet vs fleet engagements happen. Virtually everything in EVE is PVP related. It may not seem like it, but you are actually competing with other players, no matter what you do. The only real thing I can think of that isn't PVP is Agent Running. And its been stated time and time again by CCP that EVE is a hardcore PVP game and thats why it got the 2005 PVP award on MMORPG

Excuse any typos :) If you don't believe me, then all you need to do is post a topic on the EVE-Online General Discussion forum asking about it.

That's crap, all the things you listed are PVE, purely because they have been categorised as being PVE since the inception of mmo's. The fact that you are competing with other players does not matter, nor does it stop it being PVE.

PS, eve being a hardcore PVP game(or not) had little to do with it winning the award on MMORPG.com, the editors lack of intelligence, and the militantism/fanboyism of your average eve forumite, had a lot more to do with it.

PPS, can you name any PVE MMOG that doesnt feature players competing in trading/npc hunting/etc? Or are you now saying that there's no such thing as PVE content, in any MMOG? --86.2.153.77 23:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

As with any activity there are PvE and PvP elements to it (Ratting [PvE] vs Defending your space [PvP], Trading comodities [PvE] vs Trading minerals [PvP - in general], Buying of the NPC market [PvE] vs buying off another player [PvP]). The devs have stated that they want EVE to be come more PvP oriented that means reducing the number of NPCs selling on the market in favor of player built items, reducing the NPC trade routes, making combat in 0.0 less risky and more rewarding. Just because one game classes a particular profession as PvE does not mean it has to take that form forever more. -- Richard Slater 06:56, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I call bullshit. Reclassifying traditionally PVE activities as PVP, is purely an attempt to re-work/improve eve's image. Eve's devs cant suddenly reclassify PVE activities as PVP by playing on semantics, just so it will suit the image they are trying to build of eve. --86.2.153.77 19:54, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

That might be, but please grow up and keep it civil. Using words like that only tells me your mental age.

Keep it civil? I think your comment is far more insulting than saying "dev's reclassifying what has always been classified as PVE, to PVP purely to suit their game image is bullshit". --86.2.153.77 18:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

"PPS, can you name any PVE MMOG that doesnt feature players competing in trading/npc hunting/etc?" Thanks for making my point and contradicting yourself lol. You just announced above that my points were 'crap' and now you say that they really were PVP? EVE has more PVP options than any other MMO as far as I am aware and it is mostly about PVP. There is no way you can avoid it. Even the safest system in EVE you can get killed. This is unique because most other MMO's have some sort of safezone. And about finding an MMO aspect that has pure PVE without any PVP involved; there are MMO's like Planetside where equipment is infinite, therefor it isn't PVP, because whoever is waiting behind you to get the same equipment can still get it. WoW, when doing dungeons, its in another instance so players don't actively compete for the complex, because a gang just enters the same complex a few minutes after another group and they end up in another world until they exit it again, never meeting the first group, thats pure PVE. In EVE, its you and your gang ONLY and by going in first, you are preventing someone else from doing it.

PVP means Player versus Player. It simply means conflict between players in ANY KIND OF WAY. It can happen in any aspect whether its killing, trading or stealing someones loot. As far as I am aware, EVE is the first MMOG to incorperate the most PVP aspects therefore making it a hardcore PVP game. But if you do know another game that has more PVP aspects, then go ahead. Also please explain why.

Crap, PVP has always meant player vs player combat, never has it meant player vs player interaction, or player vs player competition.

Using your examples, Planetside isnt a PVP game because it has infinite equipment? What the hell? It's not PVE either because you arent doing ANYTHING to get that equipment, so I dont know what exactly your point is.

WoW dungeons not being competitive? I'm competing with the next player for a certain item that drops, according to you thats PVP.

Let me ask you two questions - do you play eve-online & do you consider yourself a fan? I think those answers will be VERY enlightening. --86.2.153.77 18:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

What the person ment by favoring PVP is that PVP is a major part of the economy in eve, and is treated differently that other MMO's In Eve, you can get killed at any time. Empire space is ment to be safer, not safe. there are sucide gankers in empire. in low sec, you can get killed even more often. the GM's and Dev's wont hold your hand and give you your stuff back. how much you lose is directly related to how well youre prepared. the GM's arent going to give you battleship escort or whatever. if there were no PVP in eve, the in-game economy would collapse.

I can not speak to what any of the posters "meant" I can only speak to what they said and how I interpreted it. The original "criticism" section had one line stating that "EVE's overall design philosophy favors PVP over PVE at each opportunity." which is wrong. I'm not saying that PvP isn't a great part of Eve, I'm not saying that PvE "is favored at every opertunity" I'm saying that PvE is of equal importance as PvP in Eve. The above poster gives several interesting examples.

"In Eve, you can get killed at any time. Empire space is ment to be safer, not safe. there are sucide gankers in empire." True, but with the recent defensive boost given to all the ships (not to mention the response time decrease for Concord) it's become far more difficult to pull it off. So unless you're a macro miner the chances of you actually getting killed in a suicide attack in empire space are slim to none (by killed I mean poded, not just losing your ship)

"in low sec, you can get killed even more often." I have lost more ships in empire to PVE mission due to changes than I ever had in low security. And while low security definitely has the potential of being far more dangerous than empire, more often than not once you get by the gate campers (or avoid them totally) it's pretty empty and hence without danger from PvP combat.

"the GM's aren’t going to give you battleship escort or whatever." Funny I thought that was what Concord is....

"if there were no PVP in eve, the in-game economy would collapse." Would PvP survive without PVE elements in the game? Especially since the main benefit in PvP is the PvE content in low security (i.e. the minerals, high level complexes, Faction rats and loot)--Fenrig 14:42, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe "Criticism" is the wrong heading. But the article as it is doesn't really give players any realistic idea of what playing the game is like. Isn't it important for players to know that if they sign up, they'll spend somewhere between two weeks and two years in the game BEFORE they're able to take part in pvp? This is why that old bulleted point about CCP's design philosophy (namely: PVP > PVE as far as content focus is concerned) was so important.

I think it comes down to what Wikipedia is and is not, I don't think Wikipedia should be an advert for eve-online it should be a neutral text that describes the notable elements of the subject. i.e. what is EVE? why is it notable? this article shoule be an unbiased representation of the facts; arguments over PvP being better than PvE are irelevant surely? Wikipedia should also be verifiable thus weather our oppinions and views are the oppinons and views of the community or the developers, it should only be presented if it is published elsewhere. --Richard Slater 21:51, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Correct. That is why it's kind of funny that the statements once claimed as "criticism" could be described, as someone said much earlier, thus - ...some of the points listed as criticism are claimed by some to be the game's strongest points. That's true. A different section header really is called for, but I think it's a notable element of EVE that so much of the game is non-consensual PVP. I think the heavy death penalty is a notable element. People have all kinds of conflicting points of view about these things, which is why we should find some way to mention them while maintaining NPOV.. right?

I suppose so, but fans tend to edit these lists of "notable features"(even that sounds positive) to make them into good things about the game, while people who dislike the game do the opposite. --86.2.153.77 18:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

And Wikipedia's structure doesn't really give us any way of preventing that. Many people seem to make changes to the article without even checking the discussion first. Sigh. Furthermore, even if some well-meaning person added controversial elements to the article in the most NPOV way possible, someone else would take them back out claiming biased POV. Even that completely value neutral assertion, "EVE's overall design philosophy favors PVP over PVE at each opportunity." was repeatedly juggled by others who read it to be good or bad. Changing the section header would help this problem but by no means eliminate it.

Gameplay and Billing

• From Gameplay and Billing section:

"One drawback is that new players cannot catch up with older players; another is that the system is not entirely balanced between career paths."

-I'll agree that a new player does not have any hope in catching up to a 1 year old player, but the 1 year old player doesn't necessarily have that great of an advantage. This is one of those cases where more isn't necessarily better. A Veteran player will be able to fly more types of ships, use different weapons, and mine, produce research etc... i.e. have more options but it won't give him an overwhelming advantage in any single aspect.

-I'm not sure what "the system is not entirely balanced between career paths" means. Is it in reference to the initial character creation "career paths"?

"Early choices may have significant implications months or years later when a patch introduces new content that may (or may not) benefit players equally."

-Huh? Usually the skill requirements are giving before new ships/modules are introduced and nothing surprising about them (i.e. level 5 industrial for transport ships) and unless you're a total idiot it's very hard to "gimp" your character and even if you manage to do that it can be easily rectified. Unlike games that make you do quest to respec your character.

"Therefore, unpredictably large numbers of players in one system tend to cause lag, and large-scale events (such as fleet battles) can be made impossible."

-I've read on several patch notes that they have been trying to reduce lag as much as possible via patches and server upgrades. Are they making any progress? I haven't been in large scale fleet battles...--Fenrig 15:07, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Older players have more skills and, if they've generalised, will be able to enjoy more aspects of the game than younger players. More options are advantageous and make the game more enjoyable. Not really debatable.

Up until recently most skillsets/implant favoured gun-using PvP players. With some recent changes there have been increases in the number of other skills in other areas (and components/implants to match), but there are still inequalities.

Early choices in character selection fundamentally influence your career path. Eg. Civere naturally tend towards high perception so they are good at learning ship-flying skills; Intaki have great intelligence/memory, but they can't fly ships easily. The signficance of these attributes is not clear in character selection. It is not easy to rectify a max (non implant) skill of 13 and swap to another profession. You'll always be "gimped".

Lag has completely crashed nodes twice in the last week. Wiki-Ed 10:59, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Ofcurse a new player can catch up if the older player has not trained learning skills or even if he has and does not use implants then a new player can catch up. I will change the sentance from cant to something like hard or very hard, just need to put the music to it. But the word cant is an absolut and that is just plain wrong ofcurse you can catch up. Also you might not be able to catch up in everything but some parts you can atleast become equal or even better it all depends on where you and the other guy put your skill points.

You cant catch up easily, but being at a high level doesnt instantly let you win. a swarm of frigates can take out a battleship with relative ease, espcially if the battleship pilot isnt being intelligent

Deng 2005-12-10 02.15 CET

Added source to the information about a Chinese shard, although I couldn't find a very good reliable external link. This section was originally called Gameplay and billing but is now simply called Gameplay (a separate Cost section was created) so I have struck through this part of the talk section heading. DJMalone 12:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Have removed the section added recently regarding skill training that was duplicated from two paragraphs up and information about ship bulding which was POV and inacurate, the maximum length for a manafacturing job is 30 days, capital ships and their components do take a long time however not as long as the author indicated, --Richard Slater 13:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Update box shot?

The box shot is very outdated now, and I think it gives people the wrong impression about the game. I tried replacing it with Image:Eve rmr logo.jpg but it didn't work out...has anyone got an opinion? --Tom Edwards 13:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

They released a boxed version for sale via the EVE store which uses a silver box with embosed black writing saying EVE Online. maybe a high-res screenshot is in order? --Malard

This one [2]? It's not exactly descriptive. ;-) --Tom Edwards 09:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Gameplay Jargon

This section is far too large. I can see several entries that are generic MMO jargon, a few more that mean the same thing, and quite a few that aren't all that useful, or could be moved to a different location like the ship nicknames. Does anyone have any opinions on what to do with the section? --Tom Edwards 09:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Remove it, like a lot of the article it's bloated/pointless. I'm going to have a go at updating and streaminlining it, but it might be controversial. --Bastion 15:04, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I ran through it two days ago, some horrid errors in there, fixed 'em and added some content. Now when it's gone, well, the article looks alot better, I wont miss it. --Gussi 09:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Be more careful, you removed most of the article! --Tom Edwards 10:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I removed the a)useless, b)extraneous and c)incorrect/out of date parts. It's massively bloated and needs to be trimmed down, for example copying the backstory verbatim from the eve site when it can just be linked. --Bastion 19:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you removed all the jargon from the main page and might have relocated it. However, someone seems to have deleted the page it was referencing. I have recreated it at the link that magically disappeared. EVE Online terms and acronyms will be the new home, and hopefully it will stick around this time. I found it very helpful when I was a newbie. If anyone else has to surf the history to find it, it's here[3].--GoNINzo 20:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Big changes

Here you go.

Removed the quoted backstory and replaced it with link to eve's webpage(and to the best of my knowledge, it's frowned upon to copy images/text directly).

Reworded gameplay to a)remove generalties, b)remove incorrect information c)remove or reword information that was only partially correct(like daily downtime for maintenance, which is also used for hotfixes, re-seending roids/market and many other things)

Removed criticism as critique has no place on this article(and can also be seen as biased)

Renamed expansion to content patches, as expansion has no specific definition and the term is often mis-used by fans(To the best of my knowledge, devs also steer away from calling them expansions for the most part)

Reworded/Removed some of the RMR sentences as they talked in future tense and/or were out of date.

Removed server infrastructure/single world as it contained no meaningful information, and the upgrade to 64bit is mentioned elsewhere.

Removed that the cluster was straining from it's architecture, as the RMR update was supposed to cut down on the strain and has done the opposite - it's pretty nonsensical.

Removed eve-db as its content hasnt been updated in years(i miss you ganja <3)

Removed evegate as it hasnt been updated in 6months, and the only information found there is around 60,000 bot posts sending users to sites that install sypware

Moved evenews to the top as it's basically the replacement for eve-i

Fixed eve-alliance wiki url and name.

Moved WDA to third party fansites

PS, isnt the great scam known to be a hoax? --Bastion 20:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

From what I've seen, there are some players who have briefly mentioned the great scam to be a hoax. I personally think this is true, but I haven't seen anything to back this up. It does have some events occur in it which are not possible presently (missiles hitting objects which aren't targetted), but may have been in the past. --Jsloan31 10:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

It is known to be a hoax - the players named in it, in most cases, do not exist. One player who does exist has a line in his bio saying it is a hoax and the writer was born well after the article was written. I'm afraid i didnt get very far into it before getting annoyed with the poor writing style and blatant lies, so i cant refute it in more detail.

Userbox

{{User plays EVE}}

Template:User plays EVE

I created an EVE players userbox. I hope it is satisfactory with everyone. --ShakataGaNai 05:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I luv it ;> But wouldn't be cool to have the eve logo? :] --Gussi 02:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Images are, as a rule, to be avoided. The text does the job and looks pretty similar to the actual logo anyway. --Tom Edwards 08:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

re: changing 'player' to 'avatar'

I'm pretty sure the same account can't be logged in to twice... --Tom Edwards 18:11, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

You can't use the term 'player' because a single player can have multiple accounts, so you don't know exactly how many players are logged in at any time. Feel free to change it to an alternative wording if you wish though. --Davril2020 18:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I dont think it matters. "Players" which could be wrong because of multiple accounts - is what the eve website says itself. You can't have more than one avatar per account on at the same time, so "avatar" also works. And of course "accounts" work too (and I think makes the most sense. Just my .02USD. --ShakataGaNai 17:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Top 500

Because it's PR nonsense and has as much relevance as "after the upgrades are complete eve will probably be the best lager in the world" - Bastion

"PR nonesense" is POV, so I'll skip over that. You claim that claiming that hardware upgrades will place a computer cluster in a ranked list is irrelevant as saying that something the best in the world. I think that is completely illogical. Being 'best' is relative, but having enough processing power to enter a ranked list is not. It is a fact, and it is as relavant to the article as the jump to 64-bit and Kali. --Tom Edwards 20:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd have to say that if the EVE cluster makes it into the Top500 list, it is indeed useful info. But it hasn't yet - I dont see how "speculation" on behalf of the developers helps - it basically demonstrate that the cluster is "fast", which is already a concept that the reader can grasp (I hope). Also - a link to the google cache of the dev blog. --ShakataGaNai 00:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, it's a claim unsubstantiated by any fact, which is designed as a PR piece to appease pissed off fans.

If eve gets into top500, re-add it, until then it's nonsense. --Bastion 19:31, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Players Online

I've been watching the number of "players online" bit of the article, with some intrest. It seems to change every week (At least) with nothing to back it up. As a suggestion I'd say stick to the news releases from CCP. (I changed the article to match the last news post jan 2, 2006). --ShakataGaNai 18:07, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The assertion that 100,000 players is more than SWG has is highly suspicious, since as far as I know, no one has recent reliable numbers for SWG. Powers 18:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The assertion that EVE Online has more subscribers than Star Wars Galaxies should be removed unless it can be cited. DJMalone 09:05, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Weapons

New page about it please?(Not that I believe it deserves to exist mind, but if it has to at least get it off the main page)

I agree. To the Wikipedia user seeking a general overview of EVE, I feel there is too much information about weapons. The first paragraph on its own does an adequate job. DJMalone 12:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Support this. It's pretty fancrufty. Twinxor t 07:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe move it to a new page and make the following changes? 1. Remove the how Hybrid railguns and blasters "work"(i.e. "Hybrid ammunition consists of a metal round that contains an ionized plasma...") it isn't relevant enough to include and all the other weapons don't have that information (not that they need it) 2. Add defender missiles under "Missiles" section. Also indicate the effect of target size on missiles damage. 3. Mention that projectile weapons have ammo for all the damage types. 4. Better missile descriptions, perhaps? Overall the whole weapons section can use some work. Maybe only show info on ranges, damage types, and weapon characterization--Fenrig 15:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Why are webers and stabs in the "Weapons" section? Wouldnt it be better put in a "Combat" section? (If at all)--Fenrig 15:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Motherships replaced with Dreadnoughts

The word motherships was replaced with the word dreadnoughts in the Red Moon Rising section recenlty, according to this [4] page Dreadnoughts were introduced in Cold War Edition, and motherships were introduced in Red Moon Rising [5], this is also supported by the patch notes for RMR [6] (you will need to be logged in to eve-online.com to view the patch notes) they are duplicated here [7]. I will revert the article to say Motherships rater than Dreadnoughts. Richard Slater 18:01, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

External Links

Removed evecast link as per Spam policy. Please do not add external links as a means of promoting your own web site. Existing external links are useful, major contributors to the EVE community such that most appear on the front of the [official EVE site]. DJMalone 14:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to log in when making this change, but I have removed evecast link again as per Spam policy. Please do not add external links as a means of promoting your own web site. You're reverting things without even discussing them on this talk page. If every single EVE fan site had a link on this entry, the page would be very large indeed. Existing external links are useful, major contributors to the EVE community such that most appear on the front of the [official EVE site]. DJMalone 05:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we can add the link to [EVE section of OGRank] since it is the only resource I know of that mirrors, dev blogs and patch notes making them available also to non subscribers. --Mantees de Tara 12:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yet Another NPOV...

So I quote a wikipedian user who "NPOVd" the EVE Online article, "I know that EVE players are stupid drooling fanboys, but this is an encyclopedia, not your stupid sandbox". In my opinion, and with all due respect, that NPOV should be removed with no debate. NPOV should not be used even if the article is edited and updated by EVE players, and in such details. Giving that knowladge to the public is not fanboism... Also, I want to correct that user, for his statement that all EVE players are stupid drooling fanboys is not correct... Any comments? --Gussi 18:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Strongly Agree with this, I beleive the article needs some work and does contain some items that could be considered biased, however being an EVE Player myself it is difficult to judge. I asked the wikipedian to make further comment on his talk page, however as yet he has not replied. -- Richard Slater 19:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Please be careful not to confuse "NPOV" (the concept of neutral point of view) and "NPOV dispute." In my opinion, certain aspects of this article (mainly in the gameplay section) used weasel words that could have been construed as an attempt to promote EVE and therefore violate the NPOV policy. The other possible gripe is that to me, the article reads as though it is written by a passionate EVE player rather than from someone with a neutral standpoint. Several citations were missing (the concurrent user record, for example). If you are stating something disputable as fact, it should be cited. Having said all that, it looks to me as though the person who raised the NPOV dispute did so for no good reason. From this person's talk page, it appears that he/she deliberately adds inflammatory remarks in order to annoy or frustrate. The correct thing to do is to add an explanation for creating an NPOV dispute to the talk page so that we can all at least discuss the best way forward. At least we're now doing that. DJMalone 14:14, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to really credit such a comment when the original complainant fails to back up his comments and also violated WP:NOP in the process. --Davril2020 17:14, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why the NPOV tag is still on there. I've played EVE, and the article is a fairly straightforward description of the game without trying to sell it.

NPOV doesn't mean you can't say something good without also saying something bad. If there's no real problems with EVE, we don't have to struggle to find something wrong with it. Justin Johnson 04:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Blood

I have modified the section on the new Blood patch, so that it matches the stile of the paragraphs above and below it, I have also left a message on the authors talk page asking him/her to provide a verifiable source for his/her assertion that the changes are in anticipation of the creation of a Chinease server; I agree however I can't find a link. -- Richard Slater 19:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

NPOV?

Seriously, so talking about something wwith a positive aspect makes it NPOV, i don't think so. I am assured that the EVE Online Wikipedia Page is just as clearly neutral as other game pages. Yes it points out more good things than flaws and goes into details of game mechanics... but isn't that kind of info what makes Wikipedia thrive. The main reason the article points out more positive things than negative things is because there ARE more positives than negatives to the game.. even from a complete bystander viewpoint. I mean seriously, if i have to list as many negatives as positives as there are for something, then let me edit every page for every game. Certainly i think even the Mah-Jong page would seem more biased(especially toward the us version of the game) than this, and i don't see that page getting an NPOV anytime soon. It wouldn't deserve it.

Agreed. the only problems i find are ones that players caused. along with the occational explosion of bad code, like right after blood was released, except unlike other MMO's they fixed it within a few days.

Yeah, I'm no sycophantic supporter of Eve Online. It isn't my thing at all and, consequently, I don't currently play it, simply for lack of interest in the setting. But I don't see that this article is substantially biased, so as to justify the tag and I've played AC1, DAOC, AC2, SWG, Eve, CoH and WoW so I'm not speaking from lack of familiarity with the genre. There's just not that much that can be said about this game from an outright negative point of view that occurs to me. If lack of outright negativity makes for an absence of neutrality in MMORPG articles, I suppose we're led to conclude that MMORPGs must simply have their own brand of neutrality, entirely unique to them and distinct from Wikipedia's, which necessitates 1) Neutral Statements and 2) Cynical Muckraking as crucial components to a balanced treatment --Yst 02:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

There are plenty of bad points/negative things about Eve, I personally just dont think a wikipedia article should be a critique(good or bad). This article used to be a mouthpiece for fans on eve, the current iteration is far far superior to what it used to be. --86.2.153.77 16:38, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

If you list good and bad things, is it a violation of NPOV because you listed them at all? Or is it a violation because you claimed that such and such was good or was bad? These are some deep epistemological waters - especially with a game like EVE where, as it was mentioned earlier, the strong points of the game seem to be really controversial and polarizing. But I think that the wikipedia article does its readers a disservice by completely failing to mention any of them.

Who mentioned POV? It's not meant as a review, it's meant as a encyclopedic article - as such things that differentiate eve should be listed, they just shouldnt be spun as to being a "good" or "bad" feature as they were in the criticism(and response to criticism) section. Look at the latest update I reverted for what I mean, someone posed two parts of eve as perhaps being negative - purely so they could spin them as a positive feature after all. --86.2.153.77 18:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

It's actually a good point that the article should mention the strong ponints and controversial and polarizing issues. It just doesn't need to group them into good or bad. A list of things that differentiate EVE from other games or make it unique would be good. --Sindri 16:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Split off Major Content Patches and Weapons?

A while back I split off the Ships section to Eve Online/Ships, since moved to Spaceships of EVE Online. It proved to be a very successful move that kept the page size down to reasonable levels without compromising depth. The Major Content Patches and Weapons headings are now starting to turn into elongated lists of their own: does anyone have an opinion on splitting them off too? --Tom Edwards 21:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with this, perhaps split them off into Weapons of EVE Online and Patches and Expansions of EVE Online Richard Slater 22:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Those sections should be split off into separate entries. DJMalone 13:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

CONCORDOKEN

The text 'This is known to the player base as a "CONCORDOKEN"' has been added and removed more than once. I've been playing EVE for more than 2 years and had never heard of this term until I saw its use here. Should this text be included or not? DJMalone 18:38, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Having also played for over two years I must admit I wouldn't consider it in the normal list of EVE phrases, however google [8] comes up with a reasonable list of sources. I personaly would say if it must be included include it in a glossary of EVE terms - something I don't think is partucarly required in this article. Richard Slater 21:28, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

There used to be a list of EVE slang on the page. It has been removed and I think most of us are fine without it. --Sindri 11:00, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Been playing for over 2 years... and 10 months ;] And yes, I've heard this term used before, only on few occasions though. --Gussi 23:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

You've never heard "CONCORDOKEN!"? Have you ever been in a 0.0 alliance? David Corbett 02:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Ships

The ships section drastically needs an overhaul. There are numerous gramatical errors, as well as copied information from a specific Wiki page dealing with ships. Titans have been seen in-game, therefore, that part of the article is outdated. The added information about Band of Brothers winning a Mothership is irrelevant. Zugor 04:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing the second paragraph that has the references to not seeing Titans in game and Band of Brothers winning a Mothership. If you see any reason to keep it let me know.....--Fenrig 15:25, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed Neutrality Tag

Given the general consensus that the page is now much less POV than it used to be, and since there are no POV problems currently being argued, I've removed the neutrality tag. Please comment here if you feel this is in error. Justin Johnson 17:06, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Muthsera's additions

Are a huge step back in overall quality/neutrality of the article. Am I the only one that thinks this? --86.2.153.77 02:50, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

No, I agree with you. As complimentary as his changes are, they're not NPOV and they're not really encyclopedic. Justin Johnson 21:41, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Cost

EVE currently costs €14.95 / $14.95 a month (the European cost is higher as VAT is included). However, like other MMOGs, the cost can be reduced by paying for larger subscription intervals.*

Ok, to what does the asterisk at the end refer? Also, the website says the monthly cost is $19.95.

What you see on the EVE account website is the cost for creating the account, that includes one month, after that the month is at $/€14.95. And about the asterisk... I have no idea :/ --Gussi 22:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

"Serenity" Patch

I've removed this section, as I cannot find any information on the EVE Forums or Dev Blogs to show of such a patch existing. It has been stated that Kali itself hasn't even begun production (yet), so I doubt that a new patch is in "early alpha stages." I do know that the Chinese server is said to be called Serenity (referenced in Dev Blog, unaccessible without logging in), but I can't find anything to back up a Serenity patch. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though. --Jsloan31 01:01, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I've now added a section on Serenity based off of a recent dev blog Cabadrin

Tyrell Corporation

Is the Eve Online corporation discussed in the second paragraph of Tyrell Corporation notable, or is it just someone spamming his game clan? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:50, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I have certainly heard of Tyrell Corp. within EvE. I don't think it is particuarly notable you could probably go through the majority of articles on Wikipedia and note some relation to EVE, some of which could be notable and some may not be. Simple answer: perhaps notable to those who play EVE, to everyone else not notable. -- Richard Slater 20:25, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Addition of Windows Vista and edits to expansion

I added the recent developer blog about Windows Vista to the bottom of the oage. In addition, I included some features left out of the Castor and Exodus expansion blurbs. Cabadrin

Addition of Serenity Information

I also added on some information about Serenity from LeKjart's dev blog. Cabadrin

Third party links

Removed EVE-News.com link, this site does not work, bounces you to a hosting page. Placed EVEnews.com at the top as it seems to be the major fansite and most relevant fansite for new users.

Where did that story go?

There was this link to a story about some guy scamming a lot of other people...where can I find it now?

you mean the Guiding Hand Social Club scam. I'll see if I can find it. Cabadrin

Just google Guiding Hand Social Club scam and you'll get lots of hits, including scans of the original article in PC Gamer. Justin Johnson 02:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Affiliate Link

I have changed tha affliate link from AffiliateID 100661 to AffiliateID 100001 which is CCP's own link (thus money won't be paid by CCP to other people for traffic generated from Wikipedia). --Richard Slater 21:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Have reverted yet another change to the free trials section, this partuclar free trial was veiled by a fowarding domain. However the domain eve-online-trial.com is not registered to CCP hf. --Richard Slater 17:33, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The "Buddy Spam" edits have been comming from three different IP addresses all with the netname NEOSTRADA-ADSL (A polish ISP). I would assume that this is the same user with a DHCP ADSL connection. Shall we continue to revert to a neutral affiliate link? or would it be more helpful to remove the official link in its entirity? --Richard Slater 18:07, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed the official link too, hoped it would stop giving people ideas. Up to you --86.2.153.77 05:34, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Serenity question

Considering the Chinese influence in the Serenity EVE expantion, I wonder if there is any relation (influence...) between this EVE Online project and the Firefly (TV series) (where Serenity is an important ship and name of pilot epiosde and movie, and where the universe is much influenced by Chinese)?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 21:11, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

While EVE has been compared to Firefly/Serenity countless times, I think that Serenity follows a natural progression for live server names:

- Tranquility: 2) the absence of disturbance, 3) the absence of stress.

- Serenity: 2) a lack of agitation or disturbance.

Also an apt oposite for the test servers:

- Entropy: 2) The tendency of a system that is left to itself to descend into chaos.

- Chaos: 1) A state of disorder.

- Singularity: 5) (physics) a point or region in spacetime in which gravitational forces cause matter to have an infinite density; associated with black holes.

However I don't recall reading anything about the choice of names for the new server, it is doubtful that you would be able to get any official source to say that it was related to Firefly (TV series) due to the legal implications --Richard Slater 07:59, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope no influense from a tv series. CCP always names everything after something In human history or when it comes to the servers names of mental conditions (Deng 05:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC))

The Chinese server's name actually is 晨曦（Chinese pinyin: Chenxi) means the first sun rays in the morning,then CCP give it a English name which is as known as Serenity. I think there might be some slightly different, like there will be 60 newbie sysytem to counteract the huge amount of player pool which already made a 10k breakthrough in the closebeta and Translation maybe alter the original flavor in someway to pleasure the authorities.Toby 09:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Bit off topic, about Singularity being defined with physics, I've always looked at the technologically definition of Singularity: A theoretical point in the development of a scientific civilization at which technological progress accelerates into infinity or beyond prediction.. But on topic, I think it's just coincidence that CCP names their servers that resembles to names in any TV shows, movies or even other games, it's all about the exact definition --Gussi 21:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Kali Pushed Back?

To the best of my knowlage, Kali is still slated for a Q2 release (wither or not this happens is a different story). Granted I wouldn't be to surprised if it was to be released at a later date than this spring, could someone Give a refrence? According to the Eve-Online homepage, under the features section, Kali is still a Q2/2006 Release.

Current information from CCP says 'September 06'. You'll need to look on the latest dev blog to confirm it.

Current information says they split Kali in 3 parts with Kali 1 being September (lots of stuff), Kali 2 December (Factional Warfare) and Kali 3 April 2007 (Graphic upgrade) - Official Blog about Kali, gotta register -Shinhan 14:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Races

When I first started playing EVE, I had a lot of difficulty finding the differences between races in terms of combat and play style anywhere on the official EVE online forums or fan pages. The only available online text to my knowledge would be the background chronicles, but those only give extremely vague descriptions of each races' game play style.

I recommended adding a short section on the strengths, weaknesses, and abilities of each races' ships and weapons. While I know one could argue that abilities are heavily based on the player (and his/her skills) in specific, I'm simply suggesting we add at least some basic information on the key differences between the races. At least enough to help out starting players.

Paul Hooper 18:40, May 09 2006 (UTC)

The only difference between the races are their starting stats, I know these were listed in the retail manual, and presume they're listed someone on the eve site. --86.2.153.77 20:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The thing is that what you fly and how you play is not dictated by your race. There are 4 playable races (Gallente, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar) and 4 different ships types (Gallente, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar). It is by no means set in stone that Gallente players can fly only Gallente ships. Some special (faction) ships even require skills from 2 different races. So, styles of play are determined by what you fly, not who you are. Those are: Gallente are armor tankers and fight with drones and hybrid weapons. Caldari are shield tankers and fight with missiles (hybrids too, but very rarely). Amarr are armor tankers and fight with lasers. Minmatar I have no idea about. Find out about Minmatars and put this. But be sure to note that none of this is set in stone. Shinhan 15:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Limitations on free trial?

Last I checked free trials are now restricted in more ways than just transfer of ISK. For instance, I believe they can't fly Mining Barges - possibly other ship types either, in order to disencourage ISK farmers.

Not so sure on what exactly else is limited or I'd modify the Cost section accordingly.

159.51.236.194 11:39, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know/recall, Mining Barges, Industrial Ships, Assault Ships, Battleships, and Heavy Assault Ships cannot be flown on Trial accounts (the skills can't be trained by them, as said in their descriptions.) I'm not sure if these are all that are restricted, or even if they are (having a bit of doubt about Assault Ships/Battleships), but I do know that Mining Barges and Heavy Assault Ships can't be trained on trial. --Jsloan31 00:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Last time I checked Destroyers we're also restricted, bad move in my opinion, Destroyers is usually what players buy after getting bored of the frigates. --Gussi 21:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

30k players in Serenity beta

I've added a paragraph in Serenity section about the new world record. Just hours after launch Serenity got over 30.000 concurent users. I've included main news source, and here is Google News search for more sources: Google News search for Serenity Beta launch -Shinhan 14:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Doesnt anyone else find the PCU stuff stupid? It's a record/stat CCP made up because it gives them good press. I dont see Blizzard going on about PRO(Peak Realms Online), PIA(Peak Instances Active) and other meaningless stats that would make them look better. --86.14.132.122 17:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Seems relevant to me. EVE has one world everyone gets to play in. That significantly changes gameplay, makes it more convenient to meet up with friends, and is a major differentiator from most other MMOs. When most other MMOs are doing a couple thousand people in the same world, EVE doing 30,000 is, at the very least, notable, and possibly quite significant. --Battlehamster 00:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I dont really get the difference. As long as theres no limit to how many people can play on a single server in multi server games, how does it really affect individual players or grossly change gameplay? It used to be 3-5k playing eve, would it have made a huge difference at that time if it was 3-5k on each server with several servers? I dont really think so but I can see a point where a game has a large world, but it's underpopulated due to multiple servers. Yes having a single game world(woops, two now) is noteworthy, but I think the huge brouhaha over PCU/single realm is more a marketing tool(or a way for FANS to market the game to a genre where it doesnt account for even 1% of total players and is pretty much under the radar) than anything else.

But that's beside the point, my point was that the PCU "award" seemed to be made up by CCP for press opportunies more than anything else - and comes across as a pretty crass and almost childish way to try get headlines/attention. --86.14.132.122 20:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

It makes a difference. A lot of bits have been expended whining over WoW's restrictive character transfer policy, and the fact that their multiple shards allow for different types of game worlds also affects things. You're more interested in PvE, but your friends all want PvP, so you go on a server you're not crazy about to be with your guild, end up hating it and quitting early.

It's not a huge factor, but it makes a difference in the overall perception of the game, especially when you're faced with wait times to play on your chosen server, but see other low-pop servers available.Justin Johnson 23:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)