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I was wondering if there are any languages that are not sequential i.e start from the beginning of a sentence and ending at the end of the script. Rather, a mass of information, a bit like a map. The meaning is the same but the way the language is expressed is in its entirety rather than a start and a finish. With bits of the map added on whenever new information needs to be expressed. Is there any validity in this. Or perhaps its beyond our intelligence to communicate in this way. I just had this dream that a yet to be discovered alien civilization communicates in this way.
I was wondering if there are any languages that are not sequential i.e start from the beginning of a sentence and ending at the end of the script. Rather, a mass of information, a bit like a map. The meaning is the same but the way the language is expressed is in its entirety rather than a start and a finish. With bits of the map added on whenever new information needs to be expressed. Is there any validity in this. Or perhaps its beyond our intelligence to communicate in this way. I just had this dream that a yet to be discovered alien civilization communicates in this way.

== How are Jewish and Christian values different from each other? ==

Can someone provide a brief summary of Jewish values and Christian values? (I recently saw an episode of the "Prager University" on Youtube, in which it asked whether or not belief in God or atheism was "more rational", and concluded that belief in God was "more rational". Then, I did a Google search, which led me to Dennis Prager's wiki page, which told me that he's Jewish, with "Judeo-Christian values". If Judeo-Christian values are shared by Judaism and Christianity, then what values distinguish them?) [[Special:Contributions/140.254.45.33|140.254.45.33]] ([[User talk:140.254.45.33|talk]]) 15:24, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

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July 20

James Harden-Hickey

James Harden-Hickey had a handmade crown. Whatever happen to it after his death and what did it look like and what was it made of?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:42, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In answer to the second question: In the scanned (not wikisource) version of the Real Soldiers of Fortune book, there is a picture of a medal issued by Harden-Hickey [1] along with the statement "For himself, King James commissioned a firm of jewelers to construct a royal crown. In design it was similar to the one which surmounted the Cross of Trinidad. It is shown in the photograph of the insignia." 184.147.140.76 (talk) 13:17, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So very similar to St Edward's Crown. Alansplodge (talk) 19:46, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
According to a newspaper article; BACK IN THE DAY: Story behind Corona's name involves a baron, the town of Corona, California was named by Harden-Hickey who had bought a ranch there. Neither article mentions an actual crown, but perhaps there's a link? Alansplodge (talk) 19:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First World War medical report

I have obtained copies of my grandfather's enlistment papers from 1915. I'm fascinated by the standard form the Medical Examiner had to sign, which said:

"I have examined the above-named person and find that he does not present any of the following conditions, viz. :-
Scrofula; phthisis; impaired constitution; defective intelligence, defects of vision, voice, or hearing; hernia; haemorrhoids; varicose veins, beyond a limited extent; marked varicocele with unusually pendent testicle; inveterate cutaneous disease; chronic ulcers; traces of corporal punishment, or evidence of having been marked with the letters D. or B.C.; contracted or deformed chest; abnormal curvature of the spine; or any other disease or physical defect calculated to unfit him for the duties of a soldier."

I'm glad Grandpa passed the test, but I'd love to know why people of his generation in Australia might have "been marked with the letters D. or B.C.". Anybody? HiLo48 (talk) 05:37, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to this, D meant "Deserter". The other seems to mean "bad conduct". Even worse for business than an unusually pendent testicle, I'd figure. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:08, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
Yep, gotta watch the latter though. Never know where they'll lead. What's described in that link seems a nasty way to brand a deserter, but I guess they weren't popular. And Grandpa wasn't a deserter. Though I did find later in his record a few days AWOL in France. One can only wonder.... HiLo48 (talk) 06:48, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nasty, but effective. Can't exactly take "I promise I'll never hurt you" at face value, especially without knowing who's already dishonest. This way, they either have the mark, or a suspicious scrape where the mark should be. Gentler now with central databases, biometric ID and impaired constitutions.
Speaking of impaired, nasty and promises, your grandpa likely did the same things in France mine did in the next war to end all wars. Maybe even the same women. If I'm in the area for World War III, I'll raise a glass to both of them before finding the wisest mademoiselle left. She'll know what to do. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:27, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
I wonder if they used brands or tattoos. If tats, then that doesn't seem particularly cruel to me. It seems to imply that they couldn't otherwise keep track of who each person was, presumably meaning they would accept recruits who couldn't produce a birth or baptismal certificate, and they had nothing like a Social Security number at the time to uniquely identify people. StuRat (talk) 12:30, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Australian War Memorial: Enlistment Standards: First World War: "On enlistment recruits were examined for BC or D tattooed on their skin. These were British army tattoos. BC stood for bad character and D for deserter." 184.147.140.76 (talk) 12:58, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Which authors used the most adjectives and which ones used the least

In most writing classes they teach you overuse of adjectives and adverbs is a bad thing, and that use of nouns and verbs is the best way to get your point across. I have been reading HP Lovecraft, and while I believe is he is a very effective teller of scary stories, he uses way too many adjectives. Which other famous authors used way too many adjectives and which ones used them the most sparingly?--24.228.94.244 (talk) 07:19, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to one count [2], there isn't much of a variation. King of purple prose Edward Bulwer-Lytton and adjective-hating Mark Twain both came out to 6.8% adjectives in the samples tested. The counter concludes that "Calculating the relative percentages of adjectives and adverbs in texts tells us nothing useful about their readability, clarity, or efficiency." 184.147.140.76 (talk) 12:51, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in general, Ernest Hemingway was known for his economy of language. Herman Melville springs to mind when I think of authors who used many adjectives. ceranthor 23:46, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
When forced to schlep through Moby-Dick in English class, I strongly suspected that Melville was being paid by the word. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

'Lives of the saints'

The following passage is from Isabell Hapgood translation of Victor Hugo's Les Miserables. This passage has a reference to a book or work called 'Lives of the saints'. This is not the only place that I have found someone referencing to it. In Robert Graves 'Goodbye to All That' he alludes to it as well. The impression I got is that it is a well known work of the western canon, but on looking up in wikipedia, though there are a few works listed having the name "Lives of saints", the most prominently listed one is a novel dating from circa 1990. So what is exact work that is being refereed to as the "Lives of saints" without any qualifications in Les Miserables, and in 'Goodbye to All That'.

"The children ate in silence, under the eye of the mother whose turn it was, who, if a fly took a notion to fly or to hum against the rule, opened and shut a wooden book from time to time. This silence was seasoned with the lives of the saints, read aloud from a little pulpit with a desk, which was situated at the foot of the crucifix. The reader was one of the big girls, in weekly turn. At regular distances, on the bare tables, there were large, varnished bowls in which the pupils washed their own silver cups and knives and forks, and into which they sometimes threw some scrap of tough meat or spoiled fish; this was punished."

Gulielmus estavius (talk) 14:26, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Upon reading Hagiography, I wonder whether a specific book is meant, or whether the term is a catch-all for any book in the hagiographic tradition, of which there were many. The French wikipedia, for example, gives this list: Vies de Saints. You might also like to look at Acta Sanctorum, a 68-volume work published from 1643 to 1940. I do not, however, have a reference that this is the book intended by Hugo. 184.147.140.76 (talk) 15:25, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The most famous single work was probably the Golden Legend, but presumably there were a lot of repackagings over the centuries to satisfy various styles of Catholic piety. The Charlotte Bronte novel Villette has a classic passage expressing the reactions of an English-speaking Protestant to a French compendium of saints' lives read out for the edification of young girls (see Chapter 13 at Wikisource... -- AnonMoos (talk) 15:29, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How are former French, Spanish, Portuguese and English colonies performing economically?

Can we say that the colonies of the one or the other are much better off than the others? It's clear that the US and Australia will skew things up for England, but there is also India to skew it down. OsmanRF34 (talk) 15:33, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No one here will stop you from reading the relevant Wikipedia articles and coming to your own conclusions. You can find the lists of the colonies at places like Spanish Empire, British Empire, French colonial empire, and Portuguese Empire. You can find measures of economic strength based on any measure you want at Wikipedia, for just one example, List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita (that's just the first I grabbed. By linking it, I am not recommending that measure over any other you want to use). Using articles like that, you can research the answer to your question. --Jayron32 15:50, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which measure of development do you wish to use? Wikipedia has articles about most of the important ones, for example the Human Development Index would work for you. Again, I (and no one else here) is going to stop you from cross-referencing that article to the articles which list the colonies of the European powers. --Jayron32 20:00, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that there's much point in comparing colonies of settlement (where the majority of the population is European-descended, and which are culturally largely overseas extensions of Europe) -- such as the U.S., Canada, Australia, Argentina etc. -- with colonies where the majority of the population remained local (not forgetting a third type of colony, such as Fiji and parts of the Caribbean, where there was a huge infusion of non-European non-locals from distant areas). Russia also had comparable colonial zones of expansion, even though geographically adjacent (not overseas). At one point, it was commonly said that former-British colonies in Africa were doing better than former-French colonies in Africa, but I'm not sure that's still true... AnonMoos (talk) 15:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A common observation is that colonies that were largely populated by the British seem to have done better than those which were largely populated by the Spanish and Portuguese. One difference is that the British colonies tended to develop renewable resources, such as tobacco and cotton, while the Spanish colonies and Portuguese colonies extracted nonrenewable resources, such as gold and silver. With renewable resources, it makes sense to invest in infrastructure and set up a stable, long-term local government. With nonrenewable resources, you want to keep all those expenses minimal, so you can extract the resources from one colony and then move on. This might also explain why those nations which possess a more recent nonrenewable resource, petroleum, and have thus undergone neocolonization as a result, haven't done particular well, either.
One colony largely populated by the French, Canada before it was taken over by the British, did OK, as they relied on a semi-renewable resource, beaver pelts (renewable only if hunting is kept at a low enough level). Their Haiti colony, on the other hand, did very poorly, despite it's reliance on a renewable resource, sugar cane. (It did well while under French rule, but their over-reliance on and mistreatment of slaves led to a successful revolution, after which nobody would trade with them. If the US had solely consisted of the South, then it might have suffered a similar fate.)
Disclaimer: No colony relied solely on one or two resources, but I tried to list some of the major exports of each. StuRat (talk) 16:48, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note also that both the US and Canada include large areas colonized or controlled first by France, by Britain, and for the US, also by Spain; and in some cases large territories passed from one colonial power to another; and each of these areas had its own resources. So although it was Britain that both countries eventually gained independence from, any analysis as Stu does above according to colonizing power becomes complicated. --50.100.189.160 (talk) 19:57, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The short answer is, it depends on which colony you're talking about, to whom you're talking about it, and when you're talking about it. Dependency theory holds that poverty in postcolonial nations is largely a result of their economic dependence on larger nations. The outside economic interest that organized their economies during the colonial era has now resulted in an economy and infrastructure that is oriented toward outside support, without the means to be self-supporting or self-sufficient. Dependency theory can probably explain poverty in many countries, but certainly not all of them. As advocates of world systems theory note, not all poor nations are former colonies, and not all former colonies are now poor nations. Evan (talk|contribs) 19:48, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And if you go back far enough, the colonial powers were themselves colonies, specifically, of the Roman Empire. StuRat (talk) 22:31, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here's one academic paper that looked at this question for Africa: [3]. The abstract says: "We investigate the impact of 20th-century European colonization on growth. We find that colonial heritage, as measured by the identity of the metropolitan ruler and by the degree of economic penetration, matters for the heterogeneity of growth performances in Africa. Colonial indicators are correlated with economic and sociopolitical variables that are commonly employed to explain growth and there are growth gains from decolonization.". If you need the article to improve wikipedia articles, you can ask for a complete copy at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request; otherwise it's probably a matter of visiting a university library or asking if your local reference library can get a copy. 184.147.140.76 (talk) 20:06, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Going back to the Sodanomics section, is there any correlation between a given country's economic strength and the amount of soda sold there? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots23:36, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
First we would have to do some linguistic work. What Americans call soda is not called soda in Australia. Soft drink would be the descriptor for a similar category of beverages, but I'm not sure if the boundaries are the same. HiLo48 (talk) 00:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Colored fizzy syrup. --Jayron32 04:06, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. Some of it isn't coloured. Or colored. HiLo48 (talk) 09:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your previous comment could have been "What some Americans call soda". Names for soft drinks in the United States. Hack (talk) 09:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To make any comparison meaningful, I would think one would have to compare former colonies that are relatively close to each other geographically, as well as similar in size and resources ... for example: comparing Guyana to French Guyana and Surinam ... or Ghana to Togo, and Benin... or Kenya to Tanzania, and Mozambique. Blueboar (talk) 10:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Although Guyana has a thriving agricultural sector which French Guiana does not. Also, you could argue that French Guiana is still a colony since it has been made a département d’outre-mer and is dependant on French subsidies and the European Space Agency. Alansplodge (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is further complicated in regions like the Caribbean where some islands (now nation states) were at various times under the colonial rule of England, France or Spain, sometimes split between two and shuffled back-and-forth during times of dispute and conflict. To which colonial power do you give credit for the positives and to which do you assign blame for the negatives? Stlwart111 07:16, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Back to the topic, and in response to one by Evan, dependencia, as per our article, “Dependency theory no longer has many proponents as an overall theory, but some writers have argued for its continuing relevance as a conceptual orientation to the global division of wealth.” The reasons are that the counter-examples – particularly Korea and Taiwan – can’t be explained by this model. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:50, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

July 21

$23.6 billion jury award in tobacco lawsuit

A Jury awarded $23.6B to a widow of a smoker who died from lung cancer years ago. This is surreal. If this goes through the plaintiff's attorney stands to get a third of this money, almost eight billion dollars. I wonder if the jurors had their marbles in place. It seem some people have no concept of large numbers. Perhaps many cannot count beyond a hundred. What are the internals of such a trial? Who suggested such a crazy figure? I wonder what did this man do in real life that made him worth so much money? Thanks --AboutFace 22 (talk) 00:36, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I read about that case, very quickly. Presumably, the attorney for the plaintiff is the one who suggested the amount of damages (money) that should be awarded. I read that such an enormous amount is illegal and unconstitutional. (I will try to find a link to that article.) What I suspect happened is probably something like this. The plaintiff's lawyer said to the jury: "Let's look at the profits that the tobacco company made during the period of my client's lifetime. That comes to $ XXX billion dollars. I think a fair amount is to award my client a mere 1 percent of that tobacco company's profits. That amounts to $ XXX billion dollars. After all, this tobacco company made these profits by killing all of these smokers, my client included." Or some such. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, by the way, you have to take account that this award consisted of two types of monetary damages: compensatory damages and punitive damages. The first award, compensatory damages, is money that is supposed to make the client "whole" and compensate him for all of his injuries, medical treatments, lost earnings, etc. (This relates to your question: I wonder what did this man do in real life that made him worth so much money?) In this case, that amount was rather small. I think it was around a million dollars or two or so? The second award, punitive damages, is money that is supposed to punish the wrong-doer (defendant) appropriately so that the company won't repeat this wrong again. It is based on a "punishment" that will appropriately hit the defendant in the pocketbook to such an amount that will deter him from wrongdoing in the future. This award amount has nothing to do with the value of the plaintiff's life or his lifetime earnings. And, in this case, the punitive damages award was the bulk of the overall award. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Source: [4] As to what motivated the jury to make such a large award, this isn't a forum, and we shouldn't engage in speculation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
AndyTheGrump, the original poster asked a legitimate question. Namely: what are the internal legal machinations that could account for such a bizarre award? (In other words: how and by whom and why did such a bizarre dollar amount get placed in their heads, such that they thought it was appropriate?) That is not asking for speculation. That's a legitimate question for this Reference Desk page. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Asking if "the jurors had their marbles in place" doesn't look like a legitimate question to me. Or at least, not one that can possibly be answered without speculation. Of course, if you can prove the contrary by citing reliable sources on the subject, feel free to do so... AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:07, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of this Reference Desk Help Page is to help people with their questions. Asking if "the jurors had their marbles in place" is simply another way of asking exactly what I stated above ("how and by whom and why did such a bizarre dollar amount get placed in their heads, such that they thought it was appropriate?"). I am sure that you knew that. Also, the original poster did not simply ask: "did the jury have their marbles in place?". Rather, he (or she) used that wording in the context of the rest of the wording in the post. Which – at the end of the day – amounts to a legitimate question. I think we should be encouraging, not discouraging, people from coming here and asking legitimate questions. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:15, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the original poster never asked "did the jurors have their marbles in place?" The original poster merely commented (not asked): "I wonder if the jurors had their marbles in place." And that statement was couched in amongst all the other legitimate questions: (1) What are the internals of such a trial? (2) Who suggested such a crazy figure? (3) I wonder what did this man do in real life that made him worth so much money? All three very legitimate questions. The "marbles" comment was not a question; it simply placed the actual questions in context (i.e., that the original poster was quite surprised at such a verdict). Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Back to your original question: The compensatory damages were a mere $16 million dollars. Thus, the punitive damages were $23.584 billion dollars. Clearly, the "punishment" award was the great bulk of the total award. In this case, the jury felt that the plaintiff's life (medical expenses, lost earnings, etc.) was valued at $16 million dollars. He was a rather young guy (age 36) and presumably had 50+ more years to live, had he not died ("at the hands of the tobacco company", according to the plaintiff). Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:26, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't the first time a jury has awarded incredibly high punitive damages. These awards get overturned or drastically reduced on appeal. The N.Y. Times article mentions a previous award of $28 billion that was reduced to $28 million on appeal.
It is very tempting to speculate that the jury simply misspelled "million". -- BenRG (talk) 01:38, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Very unlikely about the misspelling. After all, they spelt it correctly in the compensation award (16 million). Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:06, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Sparado clarified the issue a bit but only partially and I am very grateful. I am a psychiatrist and psychological aspect is what I am after. Is it possible that the jurors were intimidated? Perhaps they were specially selected based on their background? Perhaps the defendant lawyers did not realize that the deck of cards was stacked against them? What else can one suppose? --AboutFace 22 (talk) 01:41, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting that you ask about their being "intimidated". Why do you suppose that? And intimidated by whom? Intimidated of what? I would not suppose intimidation. My best guesses are as follows. (1) I would think they were acting on emotion, sympathy, and compassion, far more than on intimidation. And that factor (i.e., a decision arrived at through emotion, sympathy, compassion, etc.) is exactly why this award is illegal and will not stand. I am sure that the jurors "felt sorry" that a young guy of age 36 lost his life, a young woman lost her husband, and a few young kids lost their dad. And I am sure that the lawyer "played upon" their sympathies and emotions. (2) I also suspect that juries are more inclined to "side with" the small, helpless underdog as opposed to the big, bad, greedy (and faceless) multi-billion dollar corporation. Akin to siding with David in the "David and Goliath" dispute. (3) I also suspect – as you theorized – that most jurors do not really understand large numbers. They can't fathom what that "billion" really means (much less, 24 billion!). For example, let's say that you asked the average person this question: What is the length of time represented by 24 billion seconds?" And you gave possible multiple-choice answers: "100 years; 1,000 years; a million years", etc. I suspect most average people would have no idea whatsoever what the "billion" really means. And, in answering that question, would simply be taking stabs in the dark and simply guessing. I also expect that the lawyers capitalized on this quantitative weakness of the jury. Those are my best three guesses at the moment. I don't see intimidation as a part of the equation, as I understand it. Which is why I asked you to clarify about the intimidation aspect. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Needless to say you gave a brilliant analysis. Thank you. I should have phrased the intimidation hypothesis differently. The court atmosphere with a barrage of unfamiliar words may be too much for an average person: a lot to memorize and put together. Thus people may be intimidated by the milieu. I've never been on a jury that is why I am ignorant. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 02:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Glad to help. No, I sincerely don't think that the intimidation aspect (as you describe it) is a significant factor at all. Definitely not. Also, some quick answers to your other questions. (1) Perhaps they were specially selected based on their background? The answer is absolutely "yes". The lawyer for the plaintiff picks jurors that (demographically) he feels will be helpful to him and will serve to his advantage. However, the lawyer for the defendant does the same exact thing. This is called voir dire. Basically, both lawyers look at demographics (age, race, income, gender, occupation, marital status, education, etc., etc., etc.) and try to pick the jurors that they think will "side" with them. (2) Perhaps the defendant lawyers did not realize that the deck of cards was stacked against them? A lawyer always knows the strengths and weaknesses of his case. That is Lawyering 101. At the end of the day, if the tobacco lawyer truly felt the deck of cards was stacked against them, then he would have likely pushed for a settlement of the case, rather than taking the case to trial. Now, of course, for that to be successful: (A) the plaintiff would also have to agree to the settlement; and (B) the client – the company – would also have to agree. Actually, I don't think it is necessarily the case that the deck was stacked against them. When I was reading about that case, many readers (ordinary, average citizens) posted comments such as this: "That guy was smoking for 25 years; he obviously knew it was dangerous to his health; he's an idiot; there is no way he should get a penny, let alone $24 billion dollars". So, a lot of people out there feel like that. Those people would side with the defendant (the tobacco company). So, I don't think it's necessarily true that the defendant had the cards stacked against him at all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 02:24, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you take the punitive damages to be enough so "they won't do the same thing again", and here "the same thing" means to sell a product known to cause cancer, then you would indeed need to award multi-billion dollar fines to have any hope of getting the tobacco companies to stop selling tobacco. Also, as I understand it, the citizens of the state were prohibited from forming a class-action lawsuit, which would be the obvious way to go, and the jury may feel that the tobacco companies "bought" the judge who decided on that issue, and wanted to punish them for that action, as well. StuRat (talk) 03:01, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
StuRat, I generally agree with your comment. However, I want to delineate an important distinction. You (essentially) said that the crux of the case is: "the tobacco company sold a product known to cause cancer". I think that is oversimplifying the "real" issue in this case. In the link provided above (by AndyTheGrump), it says: "Cynthia Robinson claimed that smoking killed her husband, Michael Johnson, in 1996. She argued R.J. Reynolds was negligent in not informing him that nicotine is addictive and smoking can cause lung cancer." So, the real issue that was being litigated here is not that the tobacco company was selling a product known to cause cancer. The "real" issue in this case was that the company knew it was dangerous, but they did not pass that knowledge on to its customers (the public). The widow would be claiming that the company should have made these risks known (and they were negligent in not doing so). Her (winning) argument is: "my husband should have had all that information at his disposal, so that he could make an informed decision about whether or not he would choose to smoke". So, the tobacco company did not violate the law by selling cigarettes; they violated the law by not disclosing known dangers. An important distinction, I think. Back to the punitive award: the award is designed to punish the company, not to dismantle the company. Again, an important distinction. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There have been warnings on cigarette packs since the late 1960s. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots05:53, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Baseball Bugs, do those warnings really go back that far? I thought they were much more recent? I was guessing maybe the 80's? Also, didn't they used to allow cigarette commercials on TV, but then they disallowed them? (I am referring to the USA.) In any event, what do the cigarette package warnings have to do with this jury award? You lost me. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:08, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
1966, as noted in Tobacco packaging warning messages#Cigarettes. By 1985 they were saying cigarettes cause cancer. These warnings are typically used as a defense by the tobacco companies against these kinds of suits. Surprisingly, that fact seems not to have been made in this case.[5]Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots06:53, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. But, that is where you are losing me. Where in that article does it mention anything at all about the cigarette package label warnings? It does not mention them at all. (Or did I miss it?) Since it does not mention it, that does not necessarily mean that the arguments were not presented in this trial. It simply means that the article is silent about this detail of the trial. Therefore, the argument may well have been made at trial; the article simply did not discuss that specific detail. No? Also, do you know anything about the TV commercials question that I had asked? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:46, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am likewise mystified. I think more research is needed, to discover how the plaintiff successfully argued that the warnings on the packaging were somehow inadequate. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Reading between the lines, I think their argument was that the warnings don't go far enough, as they don't talk about the addictive nature of the product, and that Reynolds engaged in some kind of conspiracy to hide the fact of that addictiveness. Never mind that Surgeon General Koop, at around the time the deceased took up smoking, was declaring nicotine to be as addictive as illegal narcotics. Another hint is that the Reynolds appeal will be based on precedent, i.e. that the award is extremely excessive, rather than on denying the issues of addiction and conspiracy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:08, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would suspect that the plaintiff's argument concedes that the label warnings do in fact exist, but that they are insufficient. I can't imagine that the defendant did not bring this issue to light. The defendant's argument is likely: "The federal government specifies very clearly what warnings we are required to offer our consumers, and we fully complied with all of these requirements." And the plaintiff's retort was: "Yes, but even so, that was insufficient and negligent." Also, do you know anything about the TV commercials question that I had asked? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:15, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cigarette ads were banned from TV in the USA starting in 1971. There's a lengthy article on this general subject, Tobacco advertising. Over the course of time, other forms of tobacco were banished from the airwaves, one by one. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. That is what I was looking for. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I had overlooked that part of the question. :) It's worth pointing out that there were many clever and creative TV ads for these noxious products. You can find a lot of them on youtube if you want to take a somewhat dark (tobacco-stained) nostalgia trip. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
My reasoning was:
1) The jury had to be aware that, based on the age of the deceased, he would have had adequate warning of both the cancer risk and addictive nature of cigarettes.
2) Therefore, they did not believe the company guilty based on that, but, in a form of jury nullification, they found them guilty anyway, and added a huge punitive award, since they believe that selling an addictive product known to cause cancer should be stopped, despite the law permitting it. StuRat (talk) 15:38, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it might be jury nullification, but it might also be that they decided the company had actively engaged in a conspiracy to hide the additional dangers of the product, i.e. its addictive nature. It's also possible that they made that ginormous award on the assumption that the appeals process will whittle it down to something that's still significant but less likely to bankrupt the company. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with most of what you say. And that is exactly why the award will not survive on appeal. "They" (the jury) gave the award for "all the wrong reasons" (legally speaking, that is). And, believe me, these facts are not lost on the defense lawyer and/or the defendant company. Thanks. I will check out some YouTube videos. They must be something to look at, in hindsight and in retrospect. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:54, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is kind of a rambling, sorry, but I sympathize with the company. They have been thrashed and thrashed again in the past. So many lawyers have made fortunes suing them. What is their guilt? I am not a smoker but looking objectively, tobacco is a cultural phenomenon in this county. They inherited a product that sold well and a business and it all goes back hundreds of years. Are they guilty of not warning people? The warnings are regulated by the law and I am sure they complied. Many risks of tobacco had not become known until about 25 year ago. Even in the early 90th doctors smoked openly in the hospital halls. The life expectancy in 1900 was 50 years so the tobacco related death drowned in all other causes. The cases of lung cancer and emphysema were not that prominent statistically. It all became apparent late in the century after Surgeon General began to stir emotions. Smoking declined rapidly partially through awareness but more through taxes. A pack of Marlboro, I was shocked, costs $10.00 now. And what about a personal responsibility? Shall Lauren Bacall sue RJ. Reynolds for Humphrey Bogart's lung cancer and death? To a significant degree it is all in the genes. Not everyone gets addicted to tobacco. Not everyone even dies or gets sick after years of smoking. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I hear what you are saying. The problem, in this particular case (from the defendant's point of view), is that the time frame does not go as far back as you cite. Yes, back in the 1940's and 50's and 60's, far less was known about smoking and its dangers. I believe that I even read that some doctors actually used to suggest or recommend smoking to some patients. But – as you state – in the more recent past, more of the risks of smoking became known. The smoker in this case was smoking from age 13 to his death at age 36; this was from 1973 to 1996. During that time frame, the risks were well known. In a post above, another editor even mentioned that it was the early 1970's (1971) when cigarette commercials on TV were banned. So, all of these facts (essentially) work to the advantage of the plaintiff and to the disadvantage of the defendant. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, in this case, the deceased smoker started smoking when he was just 13 years old. That's quite young. And, presumably, he became addicted at such a young age. It's quite possible, in this case, that the plaintiff made a big deal of the smoker's youth. And they probably alleged that the tobacco company appealed to impressionable youths, who did not/could not know any better. I imagine that his age came up as an issue in the trial. A 13-year-old cannot be expected to make decisions in the same way that an adult would. The plaintiff likely argued that once the smoker reached adulthood – and had the ability to make better decisions – it was too late; he had already been addicted for some 7+ years. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There was a period of decades after which the cigarette companies knew it was addictive and caused cancer, and lied about it. Also, they did things like manipulate the nicotine level to cause addiction (you get a stronger than usual batch, then after smoking the normal amount of those, you are more addicted and have to smoke more after it drops back to the normal level). Then there is their attempt to cause addiction in kids, by fighting to keep cigarette machines legal, so kids can buy them, and using advertising themes like Joe Camel which appeal to kids. Finally, saying they "complied with the laws" isn't the whole story, as their lobbyists controlled what was legal and what wasn't. For example, they didn't have to disclose all the additives to the cigarettes, because they lobbied to prevent it. (One of the additives forms ammonia when burned, and I am allergic to ammonia, so that one really bothers me in cigarettes, but it's not in pipe tobacco, which therefore doesn't bother me at all.) StuRat (talk) 23:07, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That reminds me of this story from decades ago. A cigarette company learns that this one particular guy has smoked more of their brand through the years than anyone else. They decide to give him an award of some kind. They call the guy's house and tell the wife about it. They want to come out the next morning. The wife says, "Better make it later in the day. He doesn't stop coughing until noon!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:18, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Needless to say, tobacco is evil. It causes all sorts of problems, it creates physiological dependence that dominates your life even before you got cancer or emphysema. Sure the tobacco companies CEOs and other executives were torn apart in those days. You must preserve a business, but on the other hand... I remember a congressional hearing whereas a senator asked an executive of a major company if he believed the cigarettes were not addictive. He said, yes, under oath. It was a horrible moment. He then had legal troubles for months because their own research clearly showed and documented that he was lying.

You must recall a wave of tobacco related lawsuits when the settlements were in billions. It was a decade back or so. The punitive damages went to the states ostensibly for anti tobacco education. To begin with education never worked. Nobody bothered to prove with a test run. So, the states misused the money, most likely hired hundreds of new bureaucrats and that was it. This is what I am talking about. People should leave the tobacco makers alone. This business is too old to tinker with. Fighting smoking should be done on individual level. And now we have the e-cigarets in the picture. What could be more confusing?

There are things we cannot change. You cannot undo tobacco damage. There is another issue I want to mention. It has been a belief for years that vitamins are antioxidants and they prolong life. Paradoxically it is just the opposite. They shorten your life by 2-3 years. I know why but this is not a place to go into it. If this is the case who will you sue? The plaintiff attorneys can sue only themselves over it. Thanks --AboutFace 22 (talk) 00:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This clip shows seven tobacco CEOs declaring under oath that they believe that nicotine is not addictive. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 07:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's an attempt at plausible deniability. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:23, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Imagine what would have happened if American troups in WWI or WWII in the trenches were told that Ron Wyden would take away their smokes? Tobacco companies probably felt they were making major contribution to the victory. Life is full of such dualities. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 13:45, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What has Wyden got to do with anything? Whatever, if it was known in 1917 or 1941 what cigarettes can do to you, it's not unlikely that the Army would have banned them. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots14:23, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BMW of North America, Inc. v. Gore would be the case you're interested in, as would remittitur. Strangely, in all the rambling above I don't see any reference to these two obvious responses to the OPs actual question. Shadowjams (talk) 04:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

American civil war ten years before

I'm sorry, "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." This is a request for a prediction and is already attracting opinions. Taknaran (talk) 16:10, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Could the North have won the civil war, had it begun ten years earlier? Let's assume President Taylor had not died and vetoed the compromise of 1850? As far as I know, the north won because it was much more industrailzed and had a more intact infrastructure. But ten years before? --89.14.95.24 (talk) 12:56, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As it says at the top of the page: "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." AlexTiefling (talk) 13:16, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The possibly answerable question in there is what was the degree of northern industrialization in 1850 vs. 1860. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots13:38, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There are a lot of possible interesting questions about the United States in 1850, but that's not one of them. In any case, the book The Impending Crisis by Hinton Rowan Helper was a politically notorious work largely based on comparing the results of the 1850 census for North vs. South... AnonMoos (talk) 14:40, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
One possibility is a two-part war, with the first ending in a draw, and the 2nd, some decades later, resulting in a northern victory. This would be similar to the Revolutionary War, and the War of 1812, where it had taken two wars to effective defeat the British. Note that the South would be expected to decline after the first draw, as many nations would refuse to trade with them. It was one thing to continue to trade with a nation which had slavery in one portion (the US), but recognizing and starting trade with a new nation (The Confederacy) that was entirely engaged in slavery, would be quite a bit more unpopular. StuRat (talk) 15:47, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hence the brilliant political stroke called the Emancipation Proclamation. Initially it didn't do anything, but it effectively nullified any possibility that the UK would come to the aid of the south militarily, despite their trade partnerships in the textile industry. Getting to the OP's core premise, how likely is it that Taylor would have vetoed the 1850 bill? He didn't seem like a guy who was keen on rocking the boat. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:58, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Taylor may not have liked to rock the boat, but Tyler and Harrison didn't mind, resulting in a "tippy canoe". StuRat (talk) 16:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC) [reply]

A request for an original research prediction by Wikipedia editors would indeed be inappropriate. But I wonder if the timing of various major wars and the effects on the outcome has been a topic of "official war games" or scholarly books or papers? Like "If Leader X had waited 5 years to launch a certain war, historical events or trends A, B and C would have greatly aided or impaired his goals." If such research has been published by reliable sources, then it can be the basis for appropriate answers to "what-if" questions. It would be the analyses and conclusions of experts, not of us Wikipedia editors.That said, if such scholarly and authoritative American Civil War war games exist, they are hard to find, buried under mounds of hobby or recreational board games and online games about that war. But I know that it happens that on occasion famous battles and decisions of generals and leaders and fortuitous events are analyzed to see what effect alternatives would likely have had, with our 20/20 hindsight. Edison (talk) 02:19, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The American Civil War was one of the first industrial wars, and the outcome was pretty well predicted by the comparative economic strengths of the North and South. A Civil War starting in 1850 would probably be similarly industrialized, in which case looking at historical numbers would give an answer. Wikipedia doesn't have much in the way of regional historical statistics ("early history" tends to stop before 1850, while "later history" starts after the war), but the ones I have found indicate that the South might have been even worse off: for example, between 1850 and 1860, railroad construction in the South took place faster than in the North. --Carnildo (talk) 02:30, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Outback Steakhouse

Outback Steakhouse is a US-based chain of restaurants that bills itself as an Australian-themed restaurant; its frequent advertising on TV and through venues such as the Outback Bowl (a US football game) make plenty of Americans aware of it, and probably most of us assume that it's based in Oz. Are there restaurants that fill a reciprocal position? I'm thinking an Australian-based chain, prominent in Australia, that bills itself as a US-themed restaurant. Places like McDonald's don't count, since they really are US-based. Nyttend (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow I doubt it, because there are so many actual American restaurants there, the locals probably want less American food, not more. Also note that Outback doesn't really serve Australian food. Try ordering some Vegemite or roo/croc meat there and you'll just get a dirty look. StuRat (talk) 20:32, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is vegemite sold anywhere in the US? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots20:52, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that the Vegemite brand is currently owned by an American company. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:00, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It is available from 17 outlets in New York City alone, according to Yelp - vegemite New York, NY. Alansplodge (talk) 21:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Have you ever tried it? Is it tasty? It's got me curious. I don't know if they have it in the American midwest. But I'll follow that lead you posted. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots21:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Is it tasty?" is not a question that has any truth value. I've been eating it all my life, and I love the stuff (in fact, I think I'll go and have some on toast after I post this). But most Americans I know of who've ever tried it think it's ghastly. So, it very much depends whom you ask. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 21:44, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure. I'm just curious. I'll try most any food item once. I even like lutefisk, which many Norwegian-Americans (and many others) pretty much hate. Looks like the nearest Vegemite source in my neighborhood is Chicago. Rather than drive there, maybe I can order it online. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots22:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Baseball Bugs: American here, also love the stuff. I do have a bit of xenophilia with respect to food though. Any high brow grocery in the midwest will have either vegemite or marmite in stock (think Trader Joe's, World Market and the ilk) the difference between the two is subtle to the inexperienced (the slogan for marmite is "love it or hate it", and I think that applies to both products). Very salty stuff, the newbie mistake is to use too much. Salty, yeasty, beery type flavor, chock full of vitamins and minerals, made from beermaking waste products, popularized in the Great War, what's not to like? After realizing my local grocer sells marmite for nearly $7/125g, I've decided to order on Amazon. SemanticMantis (talk) 22:08, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like eating that literally means scraping the bottom of the (beer) barrel. StuRat (talk) 22:12, 21 July 2014 (UTC) [reply]
According to my country, that stuff should be driven into the sea (though they acknowledge it's not exactly unhealthy). That just makes it seem tastier, though, like cigarettes and beer. Still haven't found it, myself. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:16, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
Marmite was banned due to added vitamins and minerals ? That seems odd. I wonder what Canada has against those. (I suppose you can overdose on some, and they can be used as a way to market junk food as if it was healthy, like Hi-C.) StuRat (talk) 23:15, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
More a bureaucratic thing than a safety one. Something to do with this rule or that. I heard it all neatly explained on CBC Radio, but it didn't stick with me. The basic idea is that the products themselves are not banned. Only variations of them meant for other markets. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:28, July 22, 2014 (UTC)
Try it in the following ways: toast with butter, toast without butter, sandwich with butter, sandwich with butter and cheese, dissolved in a cup of boiling water, on a spoon by itself, as a flavouring and salt agent in soups / stews / pies. Fifelfoo (talk) 22:24, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
List of restaurant chains in Australia could be a good place to start research.Taknaran (talk) 20:58, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly here in London there are plenty of home-grown "American diners" and "rib shacks" - we also used to have The Chicago Pizza Pie Factory chain, which had little to do with Chicago. Alansplodge (talk) 21:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Did they serve Chicago-style pizza? The deep-dish images in that article are what you expect to find at a pizza place with "Chicago" in the name in the US. Katie R (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not an answer, but if you're interested in how American culture gets adapted/interpreted/appropriated/mocked around the world, you might like this blurb about American-themed parties in non-USA countries [6] SemanticMantis (talk) 22:11, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Are there restaurants that fill a reciprocal position?" Australia doesn't produce domestic restaurant chains outside of the US restaurant chain business model, importing the cultural elements wholesale. Amusingly Sizzler in the US and Internationally, which imported its business model wholesale to Australia, was for a period owned by Australian capital and is currently internationally owned by Australian capital. "I'm thinking an Australian-based chain, prominent in Australia, that bills itself as a US-themed restaurant." Australians receive American culture from American capital, the market is full and there's no reason or need to reinvent the wheel. Burger King was for a long time marketed as Hungry Jack's in Australia, due to local intellectual property and local franchisee decisions. "Americana" is celebrated in Australia as fast food, or tacky US chains. We get enough US culture shoved down our throats by invidious free trade agreements in media that the US is not "exotic" to us outside of US regional identities.
Moreover the Australian restaurant scene operates differently to the US. Australia has a sociologically "flatter" consumption of restaurant meals, with most people consuming a mixture of fast food including delivery, cafe type eating with significant elements of migrant cuisine (Australia has independently received Greek, Italian, Turkish, Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai food; without reference to international food trends). On top of this there's the Returned and Services League of Australia's / football club bainmarie or bistro. In capital cities there tends to be "fine dining". So there's a hole in the market for chains that bill themselves as restaurants. People who know expensive food access fine dining. For everyone else, the market has already filled the space that US chains would fit into. I've only seen the chains in car dependent Australian suburbs btw. Fifelfoo (talk) 22:23, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to try Vegemite or marmite (or yarmite, i've heard of too), i too recommend you spread it sparingly on toast or cracker, as the intense salty-yeasty taste can be surprising. but it can quickly become a favorite. i'd also recommend a thin layer of margarine under ut. Good factoid about the beer waste. El duderino (abides) 08:51, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm curious because I haven't been to Australia, haven't ever seen an authentic "Australian restaurant," and in fact haven't even set foot in Outback. What is there to Australian cuisine other than steak and vegemite? I understand that kangaroo and crocodile are served, but do most Australians eat those meats very often? How is Australian food distinct from mainstream American food? Does Australia carry on British traditions such as Yorkshire pudding and savory pies? Thanks. Marco polo (talk) 14:26, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We do have an article Australian_cuisine. My experience as an American staying there for ~6 weeks with an academic family, eating at home, take out, and clubs: vaguely similar to food in USA, more curries and Indonesian food available. They do a bit of the meet pie which I associate with UK. Ordering coffee was a bit confusing. I'm sure our resident Ozzies can add more, but thought you might like a foreigner's perspective. Also might be worth starting a new thread if you want more info? SemanticMantis (talk) 15:03, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking as someone born, raised and living in Australia. "Australian national identity" is hotly contested. Mostly Australian cuisines are modified cuisines from elsewhere (Irish/British, Chinese, Italian, Greek, Turkish, Vietnamese). Chicken parmies are not Italian from Italy, but are actually pretty damn anglo. Individual serve meat pies are a snack food eaten in unusual quantities, but this isn't cuisine. Most people living in Australia do not regularly or even yearly eat roo, emu or crocodile. "Damper" is an advertising campaign for nationalism. Australian coffee culture is different, as it developed independently. In fact, generally, Australian food culture has developed since the 1980s, and is marked by the fact. "Steak" and "vegemite" aren't part of a cuisine, they're stuff you do at home. Australian food tends to be less processed than US food, less heavily marketed, the sugar tends to be hidden, agricultural capital tends to be state based (or retain state based marketing). Few Australians eat Yorkshire pudding. Many Australians have a meat and three veg mentality, or spag bol, or stir fry, or fuck it, lets get take out nothing's washed in the kitchen. Fifelfoo (talk) 01:38, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Some of us still call it "take away". I suppose it's a generational thing. Yet I can't recall ever seeing an Aussie food place billing itself as of the "take out" variety; it's always "take away". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Some of us still call it "take away," and I should too. Thanks for spotting the americanism and calling me on it. Fifelfoo (talk) 07:52, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You will wish to read this article on early 20th century Greek or "Fish" cafes. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:41, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Another related non-answer: Texas Roadhouse has nothing to do with TX (not started there, owned there, etc), but is marketed as "Texan" steak in the midwest and other areas of the USA. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:05, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Texas Roadhouse does it least have "Texas-sized" steaks. They offer a 23 oz steak, more than twice the size of Outback's largest 11 oz steak. Besides size, I'm not sure there's all that much different about Texas cuisine than other states. A bit more Tex-Mex, of course, but that's just a matter of degree, as you can get that type of food anywhere in the US. StuRat (talk) 19:40, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Even less related, but I find endlessly hilarious the massive campaign of advertisements/commercials on UK television (are they still going?), advertising something like "proper pizza just like at a real Italian pizzeria" (there's something wrong with that wikilink, can you spot it?). Complete with mouth-watering footage of said pizza, and backgrounds of said pizzeria. Then at the end, a huge caption saying MADE IN GERMANY. (I assume frozen.)
This would be like Canadian television having a colossal advertising campaign for "proper American hamburgers just like at a real USA roadhouse", ending with a huge caption saying MADE IN CHINA.
Then of course there's Werther's Original... --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:10, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder it it's really authentic Italian-style pizza, which is to say, boring. The Americans came up with the idea of allowing you to specify from an endless list of toppings and then pick it up or get it delivered. If they really don't allow pickups or delivery, and only have 1 or 2 basic pizzas, with no customization allowed, then they are "authentic Italian". StuRat (talk) 19:33, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Pizza says otherwise! It also has more references than you do, although perhaps that's only for now. Maybe we could improve the pizza article with any references you have for this type of pizza? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:08, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some examples of chains claiming an ethnicity without actually having a direct link to said culture: Taco Bell, Wienerschnitzel, Arctic Circle, Chipotle Mexican Grill, Au Bon Pain, Quiznos and of course that Kiwi favourite, Hell Pizza.DOR (HK) (talk) 04:08, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess this is turning the question on its head but Outback Jacks is an Australian version of the American interpretation of "Australian food". Back on topic, I've seen a couple of versions of Australian-themed restaurants - Ayers Rock Butcher and Grill in Malaysia; and Didge Steakhouse and Pub in Brazil. Realistically, there is no way of getting a complete list because countries with a diverse community are going to have endless versions of foreign cuisine. Hack (talk) 03:39, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ISIS Fines for Christianity

Both CNN and BBC news report that the ISIS self-proclaimed Caliphate issued an ultimatum to Iraqi Christians living in Mosul that they must convert to Islam, pay a fine or face "death by the sword." CNN also expresses the words in italics as pay extra "jizya" tax and quotes an ISIS governor's declaration that any family not converting to Islam would be required to pay 550,000 Iraqi dinar (about $470). Earlier The Telegraph reported ISIS promising that Christians in Syria who pay Jizya tax will not be harmed and will be allowed to worship privately, maintain their own clergy without interference and keep their own cemeteries. Is there any material evidence of such a "christian permit" tax actually being administered in ISIS controlled areas, such as documents from an office for receiving payments on behalf of christian residents? 84.209.89.214 (talk) 22:23, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If I can add a question, is this tax annual, monthly, one-time or what? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:30, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
I see people can pay in two installments per year. Sounds annual. One thing to clarify, it's not that any Christian needs to pay four gold dinars. Middle-class pay two and the poor just one (about $117). At least in Syria. Shouldn't be a difference though, if it's all one caliphate now. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:36, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
See Jizya. This is not a new idea; it's been around since the Pact of Umar, a very early Islamic document pseudepigraphically attributed to the Caliph Umar, who died in AD 644. Those with the status of "dhimmi" (non-Muslims who aren't polytheists, e.g. Christians and Jews) are permitted to live in Muslim lands, but among other things they're not allowed to bear arms and are required to pay a tax, known as jizya, to pay for (among other things) extra Muslim soldiers needed to take the place of the unarmed dhimmis in the army. Nyttend (talk) 23:49, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Same half-half-half scale all the way through, too, it seems. I wish "Western" tax codes were that simple and consistent. Thanks for the link. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:04, July 22, 2014 (UTC)

pig's skin which covers a Muslim, avoids arriving to heaven?

Is there a credible origin / reference for the believing that a dead Muslim who is covered with a pig's skin, he will not enter to heaven? 185.32.179.37 (talk) 22:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Like most superstitions, the root source will likely seem incredible to many. Unclean animal may be a good place to start digging. Or Islam and animals#Views regarding particular animals. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:58, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
A common myth, see Snopes.com. (I find it odd that many Orthodox Jews—my own schoolmates, for example—believe this myth about Muslims, when Judaism's views of "unclean animals" are extremely similar to Muslims'.) הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 23:04, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Plus, the logical conclusion of that belief would righteous indignation against whoever desecrated the body of a co-religionist, whether or not they believed it somehow affected how God judges their lifelong faith and/or good acts. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:07, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As for the "myth" (Snopes calls it undetermined), Wikipedia's own Moro Rebellion mentions it, and it's one of the few claims in that article with a citation. Depends if you can trust a guy named D.P. Mannix, I guess. Doesn't say Pershing did it, just "Americans". InedibleHulk (talk) 01:41, July 22, 2014 (UTC)
It doesn't say that the porcine contact prevented the dead from entering heaven, though, and there are other explanations besides that (like "the Muslims couldn't bury their dead," or "the Muslims felt that their co-religionists' bodies had been defiled"). Ian.thomson (talk) 01:53, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True enough. I agree with "undetermined" more than "false" in this case. Doesn't help that "defilement" itself has various meanings. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:55, July 22, 2014 (UTC)
I was referring to the generalization about Muslim belief (which Snopes does debunk, indirectly) not to the particular incident discussed there. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 02:13, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
All good. Thanks for clarifying. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:25, July 22, 2014 (UTC)
Worth considering the Koran: "And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision." Open for interpretation, of course, but many take it to mean something like absolution. Touching pig guts doesn't affect jihadis who believe this. Neither does anything. But only Allah can know who truly died in his cause, and not just for war's sake. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:55, July 22, 2014 (UTC)

July 22

Family businesses

Is it common in family businesses for family members to be given special treatment such as automatic entry, higher pay and being given more responsibility quicker? If so, is this a good idea?

I don't know how common, or if that's even empirically measurable, but our article on Nepotism is a good place to start, particularly the business [7] section and its references. El duderino (abides) 08:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Have you read family business yet? InedibleHulk (talk) 09:02, July 22, 2014 (UTC)
It must depend very much upon which country, as laws and cultures differ. Also on the size of the business and how long it has been established. In the case of a small shop it is often more the case that the children are pressurised to work in the business, rather than being given any privileges. A larger business might have equal opportunities policies relating to recruitment and family members would be treated the same as any other employees. As for whether it is a good idea, you would have to look at some how-to-run-your-business guides. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:05, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. In a small business, all the employees may be family members, so that simplifies things. Once they start to hire outside workers, though, then they need to consider how lack of advancement, etc., for non-family members may lower morale, increase turnover, etc. StuRat (talk) 12:57, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone loves Lepidus

Having done my best recently to improve the article on Marcus Aemilius Lepidus (triumvir), the forgotten one of the Second Triumvirate, I had a look at the article traffic statistics. Normally Marcus gets a solid by unexciting 150-200 views a day. Suddenly, on the 11th-12th of this month he leaped up to rock star-like levels, getting 25000 hits [8]. Anyone know why? Was some politician somewhere compared to him? Was there news that some big actor will be playing him? I can't find an answer and the mystery is disturbing me. Paul B (talk) 15:13, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose it might have to do with the current production of Julius Caesar, in which Lepidus is a significant character, by Shakespeare & Company and coincidentally by several other Shakespeare production companies across the United States this summer. Marco polo (talk) 15:46, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a likely answer: Info about Augustus was posted [9] to a popular subReddit on July 10, linking to Vedius_Pollio (note his even more dramatic spike [10]). Somewhere in the thread, Lepidus was mentioned, and redditors went nuts on their Roman history over the next few days. We have an article on the Slashdot_effect, and the Reddit "Hug of death" is the analogous term. If you doubt the numbers, that subreddit currently has 6,100,724 subscribers, and when I checked the page there were ~10k viewing at that moment -- Reddit is massively popular, and whenever something gets and odd surge of traffic, they are likely an impetus, if not the sole cause. (Post EC with Marco Polo, I don't think the world of live theater fans has anywhere near the acute impact on internet traffic that reddit does these days.) SemanticMantis (talk) 15:55, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect you are right, SemanticMantis. My thinking was skewed by the fact that I am a live theater fan and had never navigated to Reddit before I clicked your link. But I know that I am far from typical. Marco polo (talk) 18:06, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. To anyone who is reading who is unfamiliar with Reddit and been online for a while, it's a bit like a modern version of the old Usenet, with a far larger userbase, and all the great and horrible things that implies ;) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:04, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

American Curl meme

I'm trying to figure out another internet feline meme. I've seen it on YouTube. That cat is an American Curl. It's also a munchkin, like Grumpy Cat and Lil Bub. Does that American Curl have a name and her own webpage? Anyone know?158.222.166.199 (talk) 20:12, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is the concept of race really a social construct?

Most scientists agree that the concept of race is a social construct with little to no biological and genetic basis. So, is it a contradiction to say that race is a social construct, but use DNA testing to determine where one’s ancestors came from hundreds to thousands of years ago, what race or races they were, what kinds of illnesses and diseases would I be susceptible to, etc? How can one reconcile this apparent contradiction? Willminator (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just call them gene pools instead of races. StuRat (talk) 02:06, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there's a contradiction. As long as you look at races as having fuzzy dividers. There's no distinct line between races the way we often view it socially, but there are biological differences between races in the same way that there are biological differences between individuals. It's just that certain types of genes are more likely to be located in certain geographic areas than others leaving people in one area to be more similar genetically than people separated for thousands of years. Bali88 (talk) 04:04, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Coming out of self-imposed retirement to deal with this question again. Your premise is flawed. I don't know who you've been listening to, but race is most definitely not a social construct. There are extensive genetic differences between different populations, which have significant effect on things like drug metabolism and disease susceptibility. Now, these populations may not always overlap with the 'traditional' boundaries of races, but to say race has no biological meaning is a large pile of bovine excrement. Basically, as the above says! Fgf10 (talk) 06:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The differences are real, the social constructs are the divisions according to the differences. We're all pretty different, in different ways. We (general we) could have chosen to focus more on tall vs short, but we picked skin colour as the "big one". InedibleHulk (talk) 07:24, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
It's not just skin color or other physical features, it's the social construct "us" vs. "them". Note how often someone who puts down the Irish, for example, would be accused of "racism", despite the fact there's no such thing as an Irish "race". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots11:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The accuser would be wrong. Like you say, there's no race there. Sectarianism, elitism or xenophobia would be better accusations. Racism's a sort of "us vs them", but a specific kind. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:32, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
  • There is obviously a contradiction between saying that race is a social construct and using DNA to determine what race your ancestors were. But there is no necessary conflict between saying that race is a social construct and using DNA to determine what part of the world your ancestors come from. It is 100% possible to study the genetics of human geographic variation without ever using the word "race". Looie496 (talk) 15:18, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with Looie on the specific question. For the other comments: at risk of supplying the obvious references, we have an article on Race_(human_classification). A key quote:
(emphasis mine) See also the section Race_(human_classification)#Social_constructions, which says
(emphasis still mine). So, the WP perspective (supported by many WP:RS citations) is that race is indeed largely a cultural construct, but there are indeed differences between different human populations. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:43, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most importantly, the things we call "races" do not bear direct connection to genetics in the way that most cultures have defined races. For example, in America, most people would consider the three people below to be of the same race, after all they have similar skin tone, facial features, hair type, etc.:
  • However, the first is an Australian Aborigine, the second is native Filipino, and the third is South African. Yet, if you polled 100 people in the U.S., all 100 would say they were all the same race; despite the fact that these three people come from isolated populations that have no more genetic relationship to each other than they would to any other randomly selected people groups. THAT is why race is not a biological concept. Almost every culture in the world defines race differently, and they all define race in superficial ways where the definitions do not match genetics. We can group people based on genetic relationships. However, the connection between those groupings and "race" doesn't bear out in any meaningful way. --Jayron32 16:40, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, there have been cases of twins who come out from interracial couples appear of different races, one looks black while the other looks white for example, like this example. The narrator of the video gives a genetic explanation of why it happens from 1:00-1:30 and he says that skin color is determined by several genes working together. I was confused because I thought most scientists believe that race has more social, cultural basis than a biological, genetic one. I thought race did not bear any connections with genetics as you said, so how is a genetic explanation even possible in cases like this? Willminator (talk) 18:41, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, skin color is genetic. And it is genetic in complicated ways; the genes that give someone from Africa dark skin are different than the genes that give someone from Australia dark skin. Furthermore, race is a STILL a social construct. And here is why. It appears that your culture bases its definition of race upon skin color. But as shown above, two people with similar physical appearances can be as genetically unrelated as anyone else. The issue is not "African-American people cannot be genetically identified as different than White Americans". They absolutely can. The issue is that the American (and broader Eurocentric or Western) definitions of race, based on a few cherry-picked physical characteristics such as skin tone, hair, and facial features are NOT universal. If an American met the lady in the picture above, assuming she was either African or had recent African ancestors, they'd be VERY VERY wrong. And yet, most Americans would do just that. Because the American concept of human variation is VERY LIMITED, to those people groups which populated the U.S. historically. The U.S. paradigm is that people fit into four main groups (if I may be so crude): Black, White, Red, and Yellow. That's because, by and large, America was initially settled primarily by four people groups: Northeastern Europeans (Britain, Ireland, Germany, and to a lesser extend Scandinavia and France), Coastal West Africans, East Asians (Primarily Han Chinese and Japanese), and Native Americans. People who came to America later got shoehorned into those four categories, because American culture sees the term in those four races, for example Italians and Russians and Spaniards get thought of as "White people" even though they look markedly different than the Irish or Germans, because they look somewhat more like Irish and Germans than they do look like the Japanese or West Africans. But when you look at the world, variation between people groups is far more subtle and continuous. There are not sharp divides among people groups into a small set of distinct races, and any physical characteristic you use changes subtly as you move across the globe. That's why race is a social category and not a scientific one. There are not a smallish subset of groups which have a clear genetic makeup you can cram people in. There ARE meaningful genetic groups you can put people in, but there are not 4 or 5. It's probably closer to 4000 or 5000. --Jayron32 21:12, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are overestimating how different Italians and Irish look. In fact, there are people from North Africa, the Levant, Central Asia and Pakistan who look like Germans and Irish. It's exactly like the Philipino, South African and Aborigine pictured above looking similar.--95.83.253.85 (talk) 22:06, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, race refers only to skin color, not to language, culture, genetics, or anything else that it normally associates with. Obviously skin color is not social or cultural--you can't change your skin color just by changing your beliefs. --Bowlhover (talk) 19:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And it's a really poor definer of race. HiLo48 (talk) 20:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're still confused. My links and quotes above describe that most scientists now understand that most concepts of "races" are just social constructs, and do not match up with more scientific ways of grouping people. Jayron points out that defining "race" in terms of skin color does not match up with our understanding of how closely related people are via their genetics. However, skin color absolutely does have a genetic component (there is also an environmental component, e.g. sun tan.) The example you give is very interesting and perhaps even counterintuitive. But it is also rather uncommon for two very light-skinned people to have a very dark-skinned child. If you want to read up on how skin tone is influenced by genetics, see Skin_tone#Genetics_of_skin_color_variation. The key here is that skin tones are not a valid way of dividing up people in a way that aligns with genetic groupings. But that doesn't mean that skin tone can't be genetically controlled. Make sense now? SemanticMantis (talk) 21:16, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would say I have a better understanding now than before I asked the question. I used to think that race was mostly about skin shades and that was it, but I guess there's a bit more to that than I thought. There are cases where a black couple have a Caucasian-looking child and a white couple have a black-looking child, but as you said, they are very, very rare. Willminator (talk) 02:12, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Skin color is a quick reference, but there are other facial features that figure into the traditional racial divisions. The three pics Jayron posted are good stereotypes of those features. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:19, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

July 23

Is there a philosophical notion for the inability of a corpse to have faith?

An old discussion I had on death was recently dug up on another Desk. Not revived, mind you. What's done is done and what's gone is "deceased". All good. But something I said there (and someone's recent question here) got me to thinking of something I can't seem to put into Google terms.

Is there a school of thought (or even a lesson) about how those who believe faith itself is what promises eternity are doomed, since dead people can't believe anything, thus automatically lose their faith and all the perks?

Don't confuse this with a question about whether this is how the world works. Things like that are best left unknown. Just things like who discussed it, where, when, why and how it went. What new words (if any) were invented? InedibleHulk (talk) 07:19, July 23, 2014 (UTC)

I can't imagine there's much discussion of it, because the premises are self-contradictory. Most beliefs about eternal life assume a soul-body dichotomy, with the implicit assumption that it is the soul that has faith, and thus can live forever. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:07, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hadn't even considered that. Are you sure it's common? Took a quick look around for that idea, I see theosophy believes this. First I've heard of that, though. (Had heard of it after all, just not the name.) I'll look around some more. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:29, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
The notion that the body and the soul are separate would be common among pretty much all religions that believes in an afterlife. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots11:54, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, I mean the distinction between the soul and the brain part of the body. Is it common for the soul to do the thinking? InedibleHulk (talk) 12:27, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
The belief is that the soul remains intact regardless of what happens to the brain. Consider the case of someone suffering from dementia. Obvously, their personality and thought processes are significantly impaired. The soul is not likewise impaired. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots12:36, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so the soul's intact. I get that part. But if the person's brain is demented and they can't even remember their religion, can they use their soul to believe in it instead? If so, citation needed. Fate of the unlearned shows a lot of disagreement about what happens to those who don't know before they die, but they all seem to agree there's a difference between them and those who know, even though they all have souls. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:49, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
The belief would be that once they're "saved", then they stay saved. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots12:52, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't seem true for those that believe in mortal sin. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:21, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
Neither is it true for those who believe in the veracity of Romans 11:19-24. Plasmic Physics (talk) 22:04, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here it is for those who like clicking. Or for something almost completely different, the "God's Word" version. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:58, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
Not all denominations within Christianity believe in a ethereal soul, at least one believes that a soul is simply another term for a living being, composed of body instilled with the breath of God. Meaning that consequentially, there is no consciousness between death and the advent resurrection. Plasmic Physics (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
True. As if the soul goes into cold storage or something. But either way, separate from the physical body, yes? (Where's Jayron when we need him?) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots13:15, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, all the "soul"s in the Old Testament were intended in that "complete living being" way. Nephesh, they say. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:21, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
I've usually seen Nephesh used more in the context of a life force, and Ruach for the person's collected consciousness (not merely their consciousness in that moment, but their true self).
Part of the problem, I think, is that most people no longer distinguish between the life force, collected total identity (what one's Heavenly Wikipedia article would look like when all is said and done), and one's current identity. Older philosophy, religion, mysticism, and magic does. You have the Greek Psyche and Pneuma, the Indian Prana and Atman, the Egyptian Ka and Ba, and the Chinese Qi and Shen. While there are differences in finer details (sometimes splitting one aspect into different facets like "rational" and "emotional" or "hungry" and "horny," or treating the two as a spectrum, with different shades of grey being distinct spiritual elements), and major differences in what happens after you die, the idea is that one is the (now scientifically disproven) life force (like the Odic force or Orgone), while the other is a hypothetical reconciled collection of every stage of your consciousness (of which your current identity is only a portion of). The life force (so say the mystics) may receive impressions of the consciousness, akin to jello being left in a mold long enough. Distinguishing between the two is also why I really don't get why everyone thinks the Christian afterlife and reincarnation are irreconcilable: most of the religions that teach reincarnation hold that the consciousness is impermanent and focus more on a peaceful transition of the life force, while the Christian afterlife (at least in some of the religion's mysticism) assumes that the life force is mortal and needs to be replaced by Jesus and the Holy Spirit if the identity is to survive. Lurianic Kabbalah gets it.
Anyway, to answer the original question: most such religions hold that when the body dies, the brain only hosts the current "page" of the book of the person's overall identity, and it's the whole book that gets put on the top shelf. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:59, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Another important consequence, is that thought/personality/identity are completely organic in nature, in that it is an attribute of only the 'nephesh'. Plasmic Physics (talk) 21:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, those organic souls are the ones I was concerned with in the original question. When their brain stops, their identity stops and their god doesn't recognize them anymore. There must be a term for that condition somewhere, even if it's not English. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:00, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
Then again, if the soul departs immediately before we die, ultimately causing death, I guess there'd be no problem. Only if it leaves after, without remembering where it was supposed to go. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:03, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
According to the view that I spoke of, the Ruach departs the nephesh concurrently with death. The Ruach is an inanimate object, and does not need to remember where to go, any more than a stone needs to know to fall when it is thrown. Plasmic Physics (talk) 06:22, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
But what's left to throw it (at least aim it), if the faith is dead? Or does the Angel of Death take it? According to the view you spoke of, I mean. The older ones seem different from the Michael I know. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:34, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
Nevermind, I think I found them. Something like Michael. Apparently, Joshua ben Levi knew his pretty well. That article is copied verbatim from the Jewish Encyclopedia, but Wikipedia has its own Entering Heaven alive article. Probably useful. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:26, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
The stone metaphor does not extend in that way nothing throws it. It just returns to God of its own accord. Ecclesiastes 12:7. The psychopomp candidates that you've give only seem to cause death instead of transferring Ruach. Another key element to answering the question, would be your definition of faith. Hebrews 11:1. It is reasonable to think of faith as an investment with a guaranteed future return. It is an investment which must be secured while one is still living. Plasmic Physics (talk) 10:33, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you're saying Ecclesiastes says it works like a boomerang, I'll say it doesn't. Only that it returns to God. Something can return without moving itself. Mail does it all the time. Some of those angels are more the Slayer type, but Michael row the boat ashore. Like a taxi driver, he doesn't judge, but gets where you got to go. Whether his "you" contains the mind and spirit, not sure.
Thanks for that psychopomp word. I'd have never have guessed it. I'll add it to the See Also for the angels. Another, newer word for those that just kill and let God sort them out is "Psychotron".
As for faith, I guess I think like Hebrews 11:1. Need a working brain to envision and hope for those unseen things. Per Hebrews 11:6, if you go to God without believing in him, he won't be pleased. Belief is a cognitive function, as is diligently seeking. So is disappointment, though, so it's all good, even if we're not saved in time. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:29, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't base my understanding of death on 19th century gospel, but that is your prerogative. I don't know the relevant passage, but it is says that everyone is offered salvation in one form or another, at least once in their lives. Plasmic Physics (talk) 21:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This seems to be based on 2 principle points:
  • 1 - salvation by faith alone, which is SFAIK pretty much an exclusively Protestant Christian belief;
  • 2 - other groups which don't believe in the Christian concept of the soul or their own approximation of it;
and, basically, what a member of group 2 would think of the fate of a member of group 1.
I very seriously doubt there are consistent basically dogmatic views from non-Christian groups regarding one group within the broad field of Christianity, because it is only the belief of a percetage of Christian groups and many or most of them don't have anyone in a position to make dogmatic statements. Of course, inconsistent nonauthoritative views are likely.
There are some Christian groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses who don't accept the conception of the soul other Christians have, but again SFAIK they do have their own conception of the continued life of the individual, and the continuation of individual existence is based on how well the individual does according to those standards, more or less without regard to whaever that person themselves believed.
If there were a group that denied the Christian soul and believed the individual is judged primarily or exclusively on their own personal beliefs, they may have addressed this, but I personally know of no such group. John Carter (talk) 22:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What is does the term "Christian soul" refer to? Plasmic Physics (talk) 22:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

architecture

what is the source of le corbusiere's statement that a home should be a treasure-chest? 2.96.172.113 (talk) 10:50, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where did you see that? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots11:55, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It appears on BrainyQuote as: "The home should be the treasure chest of living.". Alansplodge (talk) 12:55, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
At this point I'm not sure what the OP is asking: The specific source of the quote? Or the meaning of the quote? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots13:13, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you can provide a reference that answers either question, don't feel inhibited. I was only able to find it only popular quotation sites, which don't help much. Alansplodge (talk) 18:01, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect Vers une architecture, but I can't find a definitive link, either. ceranthor 19:21, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Searching in Google Books for "maison doit" together with "Corbusier", I found several sources giving Le Corbusier's wording as "La maison doit être l'écrin de la vie". Google Translate renders "écrin" as "jewel" in this context, but my French-English dictionary translates the word as "jewel case, case, casket", which fits better with the translation as "treasure chest", particularly when the metaphor is presumably that home is where you store your memories.

Now searching for the full phrase, I find this page which says he used it in response to an order from a Bordeaux businessman named Henry Frugès; so I presume it comes from a letter. According to the page, Le Corbusier summarized his own attitude as: "Une maison est une machine à habiter. La maison doit être l'écrin de la vie, la machine à bonheur. J'ai travaillé pour ce dont l'homme d'aujourd'hui a le plus besoin, le silence et la paix." Which I would translate idiomatically as: "A home is a machine for living in. A home should be a treasure chest of life, a happiness machine. I have worked at what today's man needs most: peace and quiet." (Note: French does not have distinct words for "house" and "home"; I've chosen to translate "maison" as "home", the same as in the passage quoted by the OP.) --50.100.189.160 (talk) 23:36, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Aha! That's why my search for caisse au trésor dew a blank. Well done! Alansplodge (talk) 12:43, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The usual phrase in French is malle au trésor or coffre au trésor. Sometimes we can translate "home" by foyer. Le Corbusier wrote "une maison est..." in the first sentence but "la maison doit...". I wonder if we can say "house" for the first one (because it is the concrete place where we live) and "home" for the second one (because je vais à la maison = I go home). Just an idea: I am not fluent in English — AldoSyrt (talk) 17:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC) [reply]
Unfortunately, if you did that, the reader would likely think Le Corbusier was making a contrast between what a "house" is and what a "home" is. --50.100.189.160 (talk) 07:48, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. There is no such contrast in French, just a very slight difference. — AldoSyrt (talk) 09:29, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What's so special about "Alex" in Russian culture? 140.254.45.33 (talk) 15:07, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just a guess, but Russians like to think of themselves as European empire builders (they consider themselves European, if their empire extends well into Asia), so perhaps Alexander the Great serves as a model. Also note that the word Tsar is based on Ceasar. Neither communism nor the current post-communist period seems to have dampened their dreams of empire. StuRat (talk) 16:08, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Russia had three emperors named Alexander: "The Blessed", "The Liberator" and "The Peacemaker". Not so familiar with any, but those are rather "great" nicknames themselves. Seems reasonable they may have inspired some parents. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:22, July 23, 2014 (UTC)
Historically, Russia also saw itself as the Third Rome and made many self-conscious cultural connections to Classical Antiquity, both Greek and Roman culture. --Jayron32 16:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Alexei is not Alexander. The latter is shortened colloquially as Sasha. Peter the Great had the son Alexei who was tortured for joining a conspiracy against him. He died in prison. There have been no Russian rulers named Alexei. In Slavic lands the names for children are fixed by tradition and the church. People cannot deviate much. I think Alexei was a saint sometime in history. The pool of acceptable names is not that great. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 16:54, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, don't get Aleksandr I/II/III confused with Pyotr Alexeyevich's father or son, both of whom were Alexei. Bizarrely, we anglicise his father's name but not his son's. Nyttend (talk) 17:18, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe Saint Alexius, Metropolitan of Moscow has a bearing on it. He "has been revered as one of the patron saints of Moscow" according to our article. Alansplodge (talk) 17:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My apology. I just did a bit of a search and it turned out the second Romanov was Alexey. So I stand corrected. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 20:12, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? You weren't wrong. My "don't get Aleksandr and Alexey confused" was building off what you said, not attempting to correct it. Nyttend (talk) 01:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It ain't just the Russians. My Scottish grandfather was called Alec (short for Alexander), as were several other male ancestors from that line. Are the Scots empire builders? I teach Greek kids. Many are called Alex (for Alexander, et al). HiLo48 (talk) 20:55, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Since no one has linked it, see Alexey and Alexander. The two names share a similar etymology, but arrived in Russia via different paths, and thus in Russian are considered distinct names. The closest parallel I can think of in English are the names Jacob and James, which like Alexei and Alexander are distinct names with a common root. --Jayron32 20:58, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The assertion above that the Russians are in awe with Alexander the Great is incorrect and Russian Alexanders are named after a different person. Until recently (perhaps until 1917) the Russian church made decisions. You have to baptize a child, you take him to a priest and the priest looks at the calendar if he already did not memorize it by heart. Every day had a few saints (their birthdays or days of canonization, whatnot). So, the priest says: the boy is Alexander, it is his day today. He most likely meant Alexander Nevsky, a ruler of Russia or a part thereof who in medieval times confronted the Teutonic knights and defeated them, That stopped the German Eastward expansion. The church canonized him. He is a saint now. Alexander, of a Norwegian (viking) line, was a direct descendant of Vladimir, another Russian ruler, a Norwegian gangster, who grabbed the power in Kiev after a series of murders and in the end he baptized the whole Russian populace by ordering them to jump into the Dnieper river. For that the church declared him a saint. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 01:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It is worthwhile to note that all of those Alexanders still likely derive (either directly or a more circuitous route) from Alexander the Great. --Jayron32 03:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And that Alexander was named after earlier Alexanders in his family (Alexander I and Alexander II). Maybe they were ultimately named after Alexander, otherwise known as Paris of Troy. 09:47, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
See name day for what AboutFace describes above. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:08, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
There is a strange almost mysterious power attached to some personal/proper names. I don't know if everyone feels it. For me Alexander sounds much stronger than Alexei. Ticonderoga is another example. Perhaps people here can bring out more examples. Why is it so? --AboutFace 22 (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Who owns it: the Queen or the Crown? In other words, could Mrs Mountbatten-Windsor sell it like any other personal property, or would selling it require vaguely the same kind of procedures as selling a chunk of Crown land? The answer may be at this website, but my computer refuses to load it (but won't give a 404 or any other error message) for whatever reason. Nyttend (talk) 17:14, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And that site says
"After the death of King George V, Edward VIII became King. He is said to have considered selling the Royal Philatelic Collection but did not do so. Although the Collection is the personal asset of the Sovereign, it was, and is, regarded as an heirloom to pass down."
Rojomoke (talk) 17:29, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Which means that it's her personal property to do with as she pleases, but we can just about guarantee that it will please her to hand it down. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:00, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, Liz might succumb to an as-yet-unknown gambling addiction and squander her fortune at Monte Carlo, in which case she might want to sell those dusty old stamps to have another go at roulette, but that would be the sort of speculation we don't do here. Marco polo (talk) 15:20, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Walter L. Shaw

Of all the individuals listed on wiki I am most surprised that Walter L. Shaw, the American inventor, had no entry. How come? AT&T? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.235.7.242 (talk) 23:30, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting (and definitely notable) fellow. Why no article? Because you (or more likely I now) haven't gotten around to writing it yet. Stay tuned to this bat channel ... Clarityfiend (talk) 23:40, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Voila: Walter L. Shaw (inventor). Clarityfiend (talk) 01:41, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, considering a conspiracy involving AT&T and Wikipedia to hide the existence of a man is a much more reasonable assumption than "not done yet." --Golbez (talk) 16:25, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Shhhh!  —I haven't received my payola from AT&T yet. 71.20.250.51 (talk) 16:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really understand the nature of his grievance from what's in the newly-created Wikipedia article, because assigning one's patents over to one's employer was and is a standard and very-well-known condition of employment for researchers and scientists at technology companies... AnonMoos (talk) 01:30, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

July 24

Washington Street, Boston

I have a photograph said to be taken "on Washington Street, Boston" maybe 1860 to 1863 (the date of the subjects death) or around the time of the Civil War. Were there any photographers or photography companies active during this time with their businesses located on Washington Street, Boston?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:04, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Washington Street was at that time the main commercial street of Boston. Marco polo (talk) 19:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Was Carte de visite the most popular form of photography at this period?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:58, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A contemporary Russian author?

Just a bit of a background. I recommended someone to read Leo Tolstoy's "War and Peace" to sharpen his writing skills. The man is an amateur writer. He liked the novel of course. Now he is asking me if I know of a contemporary Russian novel of the same magnitude set in the background of Perestroika (1989), pretty much like the Tolstoy's work, translated in English of course. I don't know if such a work exists, so am posting here. Solzhenitsyn does not qualify, though. Thanks, --AboutFace 22 (talk) 16:50, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You might try a "search inside" this book for suggestions:  Encyclopedia of contemporary Russian culture (1. publ. ed.). London [u.a.]: Routledge. 2007. ISBN 0415320941. {{cite book}}: |first1= has generic name (help); |first1= missing |last1= (help)  —Valentin Rasputin seems to come up often as novelist from this period, (perhaps not in the same category as Tolstoy; but who is?). Sources seem to recommend Rasputin's 1979 novel Farewell to Matyora which has been translated into English (ISBN 0810113295); however, this predates perestroika.
See also: Russian Literature after Perestroika (authors are interviewed) here: (http://www.jstor.org/stable/i359852) although JSTOR access required to read full interviews (or $44); it does list several authors:
  • et al...

...I hope this helps, ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 20:52, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your knowledge base is very impressive! Thank you very much. It helps. --AboutFace 22 (talk) 22:11, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Eleventh Annual Report of the Hawaiian Mission Children's Society

Can anybody help me find an online version of the Eleventh Annual Report of the Hawaiian Mission Children's Society or volume 11 of Annual Report of the Hawaiian Mission Children's Society?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:41, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know the the year? Since the 61st was in 1913 (archived here), presumably the 11th would have been 50 years earlier (1863). Archive.org might be your best bet: https://archive.org/details/texts ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:08, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Strangely, this one is dated 1853, yet it references the "Eleventh Annual Report"[11] on page 42 [further research required] ... ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:17, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's the first. Yes the Eleventh was published in 1863. I need to use page 15 of that book. It doesn't seem to be on google book or archive.org. I wonder if there is any other sites that have these in more complete forms since the Eleventh Annual Report isn't the only one that is hard to find.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:40, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Here it is → [12]   — (p. 15)  ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:46, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No -- actually, page 15 of the 11th is here: [13] —There seems to be some sort of computer compilation error.   ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 22:52, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Here is a better link to that page. It seems to be a compilation of many volumes. I hate it when it does that on google book. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:58, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Who is this Corresponding Secretary of the Hawaiian Mission Children's Society Martha or Mattie A. Chamberlain mentioned in these reports? Was she a daughter of sister of Levi Chamberlain and what did the A stand for In her name?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:19, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

July 25

Anime and manga with pregnancy as a major theme?

Did/does this type of language exist?

I was wondering if there are any languages that are not sequential i.e start from the beginning of a sentence and ending at the end of the script. Rather, a mass of information, a bit like a map. The meaning is the same but the way the language is expressed is in its entirety rather than a start and a finish. With bits of the map added on whenever new information needs to be expressed. Is there any validity in this. Or perhaps its beyond our intelligence to communicate in this way. I just had this dream that a yet to be discovered alien civilization communicates in this way.

How are Jewish and Christian values different from each other?

Can someone provide a brief summary of Jewish values and Christian values? (I recently saw an episode of the "Prager University" on Youtube, in which it asked whether or not belief in God or atheism was "more rational", and concluded that belief in God was "more rational". Then, I did a Google search, which led me to Dennis Prager's wiki page, which told me that he's Jewish, with "Judeo-Christian values". If Judeo-Christian values are shared by Judaism and Christianity, then what values distinguish them?) 140.254.45.33 (talk) 15:24, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]