Talk:Berdan rifle

Cross-reference

I don't see why it would be necessery to cross-reference Berdan rifle and Berdan Sharps rifle. They are related only through Hiram Berdan, and both accessable from that page. I might be wrong, but IMHO this calls for something more than "see also", at least something like "Berdan rifle is built upon Berdan Sharps rifle" (of course, if it's true). So far it looks like Hiram Berdan invented a whole bunch of staff.

Shouldn't the place of origin should be the United States? It was invented there but it served with the Russian Army. It was NOT invented in Russia.

Inaccuracies in the article

There are many inaccuracies in the article that should be corrected. Let me point at several of them so that someone could fix it.

The Berdan rifle (Vintovka Berdana in Russian) is a Russian rifle created by famous American firearms expert and inventor Hiram Berdan in 1868.

It was invented in 1867. But a few rifles wee made for the Russians using the trap door principle of Berdan. This was close to the Allin trap door, and soon abandoned. The Russians mentioned below were at that time had reduced the Berdan .58 to .45, and they would reduce it further. They eventually settled on the .42, but also some were made in .41. Berdan in March 1867 decided to put the bolt in, as mentioned below, and the Russians Gorloff and Hennius worked with him to improve it.

Actually there were *two* *absolutely* *separate* Russian Berdan rifles - Berdan #1 and Berdan #2 (note - NOT "I" of "II"), only the cartridge was the same. I think that should be mentioned in the very first lines of the article.

The #1 rifle was heavily modified by Russian military engeniers Gorloff and Goonius who worked at Colt factory before production started, for example AFAIK original design employed rotating hammer, while serial model had straight-pull hammer, so essentially it was a Berdan-Gorloff-Goonius rifle.

I don't know who Goonius is, but Hennius was the fellow working with Gorloff. The actually preferred the Peabody, but were convinced to go with Berdan. Berdan had the idea to put a bot in his rifle (not make a bolt rifle) in March 1867 after competion of the trials in NY.

Widely used in Russia as a hunting weapon, sporting variants, including shotguns, were produced until the mid-1930s.

That is not correct, or at least inaccurate. Hunting and sporting variations were being CONVERTED from worn out military rifles NOT produced in common sence of this word.

The first version, manufactured by Colt in the USA, is known as the model of 1868, or Berdan I. It is a hammerless "trapdoor" breechblock design, and was manufactured in limited numbers (the contract stipulated 30,000) as a full length infantry rifle. This 30,000 orde was not for the trap door, but the Russian I.

Berdan #1 was NEVER adopted as an infantry rifle. It was adopted as SHARPSHOOTER's rifle ("strelkovaya vintovka obr. 1868")

These firearms can be found as ornately engraved, well fit and finished custom sporting rifles, intended for the Russian ruling class

That is very very unlikely and strongly needs a source. AFAIK "Russian rooling class" had enough money to purchase something more then a converted worn out military rifle with a fancy finish.

- 95.79.213.197 (talk) 13:04, 26 November 2010 (UTC)