User talk:DarrenRay

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Welcome!

Hello, DarrenRay, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Deiaemeth 08:48, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Darren, if you want to contribute to wikipedia, you must write from a neutral point of view. Otherwise, your edits will be reverted. Xtra 02:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Darren, you are not going to get acceptance for these edits, some of which are obviously silly, and you are not helping Andrew by trying to do so. My suggestion is that you go to the article's Talk page and provide a list of factual statements which you think the article ought to include, and of statements which you think ought to be removed, which can then be discussed, and the article edited in a manner that interested editors can agree on. Adam 03:53, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

If you make frivolous edits, you can't be surprised when unsympathetic editors revert your edits in toto. You are already labouring under the handicap of being a known participant in the matters under discussion. That doesn't prevent you editing, but it does mean your edits will be subject to greater scrunity, and rightly so. You therefore need to be very careful that all your edits are as NPOV as possible. I can't judge whether the current version of the article is defamatory. If you think it is, you should raise this on the Talk page and state your case. Adam 04:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

If you believe content about you is libelous add a {{Libel}} tag. Xtra 06:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC) Darren. I think you have me misunderstood. I voted for you in the MUSU elections and supported your general agenda (mostly the food voucher idea). My problem is that you are just changing the entire context of the article without even discussion anything first. Why don't you suggest what changes you would like to be made on its talk page and we can work through what is appropriate and what is not. Xtra 06:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I could tell you, but then i'd have to kill you. Xtra 12:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The idea is that all my edits can be traced back to me (being a cyber account) and i (as that account) am responsible to the wikipedia society and am suposed to obide by the rules and am subject to disciplinary sanctions. At least i do all my edits under a pseudonim, rather than from random IP's which cannot be traced. Xtra 12:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

HAhaha! fat chance! look at my edit history. One of my main objectives here is to keep things not too left wing, but I also try to keep everything accurate. I think you will find that Adam Carr is one of the relatively few wikipedia users who gives their real identity. Xtra 12:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Not keep things too left wing? So overly right wing is the solution? I guess you think extreme left edited by extreme right = NPOV. That doens't add up. Lefty on campus 12:39, 28 February 2006 (UTC) --.

I think that proves that I am not a lefty. I am not a fan of McVeigh's, I am just interested in neutrality. Xtra 12:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I have been having a "discussion" with him/her about the recognition of homosexuality by australian law. Xtra 12:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Try to use preview

I would like to thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. However, it is recommended that you use the preview button before you save; this helps you find any errors you have made, and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history. Thanks again. Where ^(talk) 02:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Melbourne University Student Union

Darren, regarding your question about external links, there's nothing wrong with having external links in articles which express a point of view, indeed it's almost always beneficial to include links to criticism of the subject. However, in accordance with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy (NPOV), external links should reflect a balanced selection of a range of viewpoints. Given that you authored the site in question, and given your vested interest in this subject, it is hardly NPOV to present your link as the only one. I suggest that you consider collecting several links representing multiple points of view about the union before reinserting your link. --bainer (talk) 07:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, added in a different perspective as you suggested and disclosed my interest in the edit summary. DarrenRay 09:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Darren, I've left some comments on Talk:Melbourne University Student Union. It may also be useful to add a description of each link, since plain links are inherently ambiguous. --bainer (talk) 09:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Me

I won't tell you who I am but I will tell you that I am related to one former Labor federal minister, one current state Liberal member and one possibly future federal Labor member who is challanging a former leader of your party. Xtra 10:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

On a technical point Darren. It is the liquidator is is responsible for the liquidation of the Union. Xtra 11:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind you thinking lowly of me. Xtra 11:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Dean McVeigh

Hi Darren, I thought I'd reply instead of the AFD page. I appreciate that you are looking for people to debate the notability issue, but I just don't think you should be taking people's comments as personal attacks. I've since read your website and I think I now understand why you were offended, but I honestly don't think Ambi or Cursive were directing that comment at anyone specifically. Also, I wouldn't be too worried about the AFD as it looks like it is going in the direction of being no consensus/keep. And yes, this is my real name. I'm not keen on anon editing. People seem to think they can avoid responsibility for what they write when they have a pseudonym to hide behind. If you're writing under your real name, you tend to give more thought to what you write. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 14:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Anon edits

Hi - you have just joined a very large community which is reasonably well established and has recognised terminology - using the same words slightly differently is confusing. Anon edits are those that are from users who have not signed in - ie are using an IP address only. Some people prefer to contribute that way, that is fine. There are some things they cannot do, for example move pages, edit semi-protected pages, have their voice heard in community debate (It will generally be disregarded). There are others who edit under a user name. That is they are signed in. They may or may not use their real name. I don't. It does not make me anonymous - it makes me pseudonymous - quite different. I could claim to be Darren Ray - a real person - and still not be him. I am the sum of my edits on the wikipedia - no more no less. For privacy reasons, I do not wish to reveal my identity. Even if I did, who could say I was telling the truth? To judge me, or any other editor, you look at my edits.

Please refer to editors who are signed in, not as anon edits (it confuses the mug punter), but pseudonymous edits or the equivalent if you must. Thanks--A Y Arktos 19:57, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• I draw your attention to the guidleine at Wikipedia:Etiquette, which among other useful bits of advice, states: Argue facts, not personalities. Your current stance is in breach of that guideline.--A Y Arktos 20:52, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• As you will see from this diff - I did not delete your talk page!!!A Y Arktos 20:58, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The history certainly indicates that but I wonder why it was coming up blank. Perhaps a glitch? DarrenRay 21:02, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I think there is a glitch as the same thing happened to me last night. Anyway Darren, I was reading the Make McVeigh Pay website last night. My dad used to work in the Property & Buildings Dept! But he left and went to Melb Uni Private just before all that crap happened. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 21:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Response to comments about your blank user page

Did you reload or refresh before throwing accusations about? Your computer problems or glitches have nothing to do with me. Your problems derivefrom a server problem, either your ISP's server or perhaps a problem from the servers of the Wikimedia Foundation. As above, I refer you again to Wikipedia:Etiquette - in this case "assume good faith". --A Y Arktos 03:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Bill Landeryou

You and Andrew if he is still around might like to have a look at this, which I have not yet installed as an article. There is a gap in the story which after 23 years I can't recall. Adam 04:05, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

You know as well as I that it was not a racial slur, but rather a slur making fun of Simon Crean and the Labor Party as a whole. Xtra 06:00, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Meetup in March

I see that you recently listed as a participant in the WikiProject Melbourne. If you are a Melbourne resident I would appreciate your views on the suggested Meetup in March . Please give some indication of your interest, or otherwise, in the idea. Even a simple "No thanks" with your user name would be welcome and assist in assessing the level of support for a meetup. Thank you. Cuddy Wifter 06:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Megan

Tell her I'll meet up with her tonight. Xtra 06:32, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

3RR

FYI, please keep in mind the Three Revert Rule, which disallows no more than three article reverts within one 24 hour period. Administrators have the ability to block accounts ignoring this policy. -- Longhair 07:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The totally disputed tag serves the purpose you require. It's far better than landing yourself a block from reverting content you disagree with. If you disagree with the article contents entirely, I can't think of any notice more suitable. You can also mark individual content with the {{fact}} tag, indicating a source is required for that specific wording of the article. There's other editors who aren't online at the moment who I think would prefer to discuss the article contents also. Discussions like this one don't take a few minutes. Sometimes they can last for weeks. Keeping civil, seeing article progression to an agreeable consensus is what we're all here for in the end. Any questions, feel free to ask. -- Longhair 08:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Julian Barendse

There's discussion on the article's talk page regarding content, however I see you've already located that. Cheers. -- Longhair 08:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Landeryou

You write: "For a start, he is not a businessman. Do a Google search and you will see he is a full-time journalist and publisher." If he is a fulltime journalist, where does his journalism appear? If he is a publisher, what has he published? Running a blog is neither journalism nor publishing, it is blogging. If he makes his living through revenue from the blog, that is a business and makes him a businessman, not a journalist. I am not privy to his personal affairs but as far as I know he has made his living in recent years solely as some kind of businessman. At present he may be an unemployed or self-employed businessman, but businessman still seems to be the best description. Adam 08:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

A "fulltime journalist" is a person who makes their living from fulltime journalism - being paid to write for a media organisation of some kind. Landeryou does not get paid to write for his own blog, or anywhere else so far as I know. Even if his blog was pure news (which of course it isn't, it's 80% opinion and satire), that wouldn't make him a journalist, and certainly not a fulltime one. As a self-supporting blogger he is in a different category to someone like Margo Kingston, who is paid by the SMH to write her webdiary. Adam 08:58, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

A self-employed (or freelance) journalist is one who makes their living selling articles to media outlets. That is not what Landeryou does. I presume he makes a bit of money selling advertising space on his blog, but he does not sell his writing to anyone, which is what journalists do. He is no more a journalist because he owns a blog than Kerry Packer was a journalist because he owned the Bulletin. I have no idea what AL's current income source is, so "businessman" is the politest term to use.

We are arguing in the dark here because I don't know what AL's current source of income is, and I don't expect you to disclose it here. I suspect at the moment he is not anything in an occupational sense. Of course it is not necessary to be currently employed as something to be described as being that thing in a general sense. A doctor who is not currently working as a doctor is still a doctor. But AL so far I know has never worked as a journalist (correct me if I'm wrong). He has made a living as a businessman in the past. As I recall he was in Costa Rica looking for investment opportunities, yes? That is what businessmen do. The only public activity he currently undertakes is his blog, which is a business of sorts. Therefore I think he should be described as a businessman until he acquires a new occupation. Any other description will be seen as a euphemism, and to some extent that would be true. Adam 11:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Barendse

I fought about that last year and kept getting reverted so I gave up. Xtra 09:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

John Cain

i see what you are saying - there's probably a better way of saying it in the article though.

i can understand the ignorant masses blaming the government for Not Doing Something to prevent them losing their money - but what could Cain and co. do - stricter government regulation/intervention was not possible in the political climate of the late '80s and business and others would scream blue murder if they had tried. (It's funny how so many people say they want the government off their backs - until it affects them directly - then it becomes "Save us! Save us!", even if the problem was 'caused by telling the government to fsck off in the first place.) PMA 09:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

UMSU

Find me two other organisations which Wikipedia lists the executive salaries (other than ones you have added) and I will not remove it. Otherwise, I will. Xtra 02:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC) P.S. wasn't your salary about double that of the current president? Xtra 02:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

If you continue to make POV edits to articles concerning things to do with you, I will report you to administrators. Xtra 02:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

University of Melbourne Student Union

You are in danger of violating the three-revert rule. Please cease further reverts or you may be blocked from further editing. Xtra 08:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)