Talk:Michael Jackson

Please read and understand Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Citing sources, and Wikipedia:Reliable sources before making additions to this article, or making suggested additions on this article's talk page. Additions made without references which meet this criteria may be deleted. Audio sources & self-published sources are only allowed under certain circumstances: Untitled Allowed audio sources: WP:Identifying_reliable_sources#Overview; Allowed self-published sources: WP:SPS, WP:ABOUTSELF, WP:Identifying_reliable_sources#Statements_of_opinion Also be aware of: WP:NOTBATTLE, WP:Wikilawyering, WP:PG, WP:NPOV, WP:BIAS

business career (1984–85)

The changes requested below have been made. Aleskr (talk), 17 November 2010

{{Edit semi-protected}}

Please change: "However, McCartney later changed his mind and tried to persuade John Lennon's widow Yoko Ono to join him in a joint bid. Ono declined, and McCartney pulled out."

to: "Previously, McCartney was offered the ATV catalog for £20 million ($40 million USD) in 1981. He contacted Yoko Ono to make a joint purchase by splitting the cost equally at £10 million each, but Ono thought they could buy it for £5 million each. When they were unable to, he let the offer fall through, not wanting to pay the £20 million himself."

McCartney tried to make a joint purchase with Yoko Ono when he was OFFERED the catalog for £20 million in 1981, NOT when MJ was bidding for it in 1984. He never attempted to place a bid when the catalog was put up for sale in 1984. These two sources confirm the £20 million offer and failed attempt to make a joint purchase was prior to the 1984 open bidding:

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=michael-jackson-john-branca (see section "Jackson Invests")

http://mjjinfo.blogspot.com/2010/11/paul-mccartney-refused-to-buy-atv.html (Audio and transcript of McCartney talking being "OFFERED the songs to buy for £20 million pounds" and letting the offer fall through)

The specific year of the offer as 1981 was given here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony/ATV_Music_Publishing#Acquisition in the sentence, "McCartney had previously attempted to purchase the catalog alongside John Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono in 1981." with Taraborrelli, J. Randy (2004). The Magic and the Madness. Terra Alta, WV (2004) p335–338 as the reference

The above wikipedia (citing Taraborrelli) and pophistorydig.com articles both confirm that after Jackson was notified of the sale in September 1984, John Branca contacted McCartney's attorney who said McCartney would not bid because the catalog was too "pricey". There is no mention of McCartney changing his mind after that.

Aleskr (talk), 17 November 2010

death

Please change the lines about Michael Jackson dying after "suffering" from cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest means the heart has stopped, so 100% of people "suffer" from cardiac arrest when they die. I'm not sure if the official cause of death is known, but it could be changed to something like, "after administration of several powerful drugs such as propofol, Michael Jackson suffered a cardiac arrest and died."

Pop Singer Michael Jackson

The Name That Should Be Used In The Begining Of Michael Jackson's Wikipedia Page Is His Birth Name, Which Is Michael Joseph Jackson,That Is The Name He Has Always Gone By.Blooper2011 (talk) 20:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

This is an interesting case. The ref cites a document on the page that uses "Joe," but the main FOIA FBI page [5] says "Joseph." The SSDI also says Joseph. So therefore, I've changed it back to Joseph. hbdragon88 (talk) 06:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

What should we do here - his middle name is Joseph as indicated on all the books he has written and published like Moomwalk -- so what do we do here - should we change it back again? and remove the ref that is there - because all know that's driver's licence dont always use full valid name - i dont have my full middle name on my driver's licence...Moxy (talk) 16:55, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

File:Michael Jackson death certificate.jpg I think this is the definitive statement as to what his middle name is. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:41, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow that's nice and definitive ..shall we fix it?Moxy (talk) 05:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Good question..... SJ (talk) 22:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok i think we got it right now...Its pretty clear that "Joe" is the short form he used, but not the proper name. Looking into this in the USA looks like only 4 documents have to have proper "fully" middle names - Birth certificate - Passport - marriage certificate and death certificate. According to what i found Americans can use short form middle names on tax forums and drivers licences (this includes "Legal" stage names)....Moxy (talk) 23:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Best Selling Male Artist of the Millennium

Best Selling Male Artist of the Millennium Award (Millennium Awards at 2000 World Music Award) must be mentionned in the intro. World Music Award stated officially Michael Jackson as the world's best-selling recording-artist of all timevideo. That is BIG information especially coming from an official organisation as the World Music Award and not by a music company or official website. Waiting for changes. (Readerweb (talk) 18:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

We can't use Youtube, it isn't a reliable source. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:27, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

We can use it in some case see Wikipedia:External links/Perennial websites and in the case if its the official World Music Award page (meaning its not a copyrighted upload) it could be used. That said this has come up many times before and it was decided that the lead is not the proper place to list all his achievements - the main ones are mentioned at Michael Jackson#Honors and awards and the rest at List of awards received by Michael Jackson. This does not mean we cant change it just would need others to agree to as per WP:CCC. Moxy (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

For such a significant record, it should be straightforward to find a genuine reliable source. But yes, consensus needs to form for this factoid to be included in the lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:39, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, here is a reliable source : World Music Awards Millenium Awards. Reminder, this is big and huge information and needs to be shown on the intro. It's one of the most important and significant award. (Readerweb (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

Why is it "big and huge" and one of his most significant awards?Beach drifter (talk) 19:05, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually yes, being the world's best-selling recording-artist of all time is big information for a singer, it must be mentionned on the lead part of this wikipedia article. All references are available (from wikipedia, websites and youtube videos) then now we should proceed. (Readerweb (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

Its an award by non independant body. Nothing more. --LiamE (talk) 06:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I disagree, World Music Awards is an independant organisation that counts sales upon IFPI statistics. Anyway, the point is the Best Selling Male Artist of the Millennium Award is a very important achievement for any singer, i'm asking for this award to appear on the lead part (Readerweb (talk) 15:27, 29 January 2011 (UTC))

WMAs says that counts sales upon IFPI statistics, but in the end, the results are different. An example is 2010 WMAs, Michael Jackson would have win in many categories (like best selling artist, best selling US artist, etc...), but he wasn't nominated in no one categorie, except best selling album. WMAs is not anymore a real award cerimony, now it's only a cerimony for to promote the artists. (SJ (talk) 23:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC))

Michael Jackson's involvement in Video Games

Michael Jackson asked Sega Games in 1989 in Japan to create a video game about him and his music. The game Michael Jackson's Moonwalker was released for the Sega Genesis and Arcade in 1990. In the following years he also worked with Sega on the games Space Channel 5 part 1 and 2. He is also reported to have contributed to the music on Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog Game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aetas4500 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Additional Information regarding Jacksons' skin disease

The time of Jacksons’ diagnoses of Vitiligo and Lupus,> his skin became blotchy. Once his skin was going through pigment differentiation,> Jackson wanted to make it all one colour. Therefore, from confirmation from the> autopsy, skin bleaching creams were used but solely for the purpose of covering> his blotchy skin due to his skin disease, rather than for outrageous rumors> about him having the desire to be Caucasian. Jackson has told the truth from his> interview with Oprah Winfrey in1993, where he openly admitted his skin diagnoses.> Sadly, people refused to believe him even having him publicly admit his disease> and still continued to not believe him until his death and his autopsy results — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guirguc14 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Instrumentalist?

I'd simply like to know where there is anything whatsoever to verify MJ playing musical instruments like the guitar, drums, piano. Any video? Pictures? The liner notes on his albums don't cut it for me, as Jackson was clearly prone to embellishments regarding a number of things. I've never in my life even seen a picture of him playing any of those, much less actual live proof of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.249.70 (talk) 21:59, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Guitar Picture 1 - http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/300/music11lq.jpg

Guitar Picture 2 - http://www.juliensauctions.com/auctions/2009/music-icons/michael-jackson-35.html

Guitar Picture 3 - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/3935738970_be5f9cc5c1.jpg

Guitar Picture 4 - http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac59/Mjfan1_MJ/kytara.gif

Guitar Picture 5 - http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165496_175151345851838_100000709217068_432318_6064155_n.jpg

Guitar Picture 6 - http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/165790_175151519185154_100000709217068_432334_7109151_n.jpg

Piano Picture 1 - http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6671/photo61ag.jpg

Piano Picture 2 - http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Photo-Early-Years-4-Micheal-Jackson.jpg

Piano Picture 3 - http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o36/EchelonAngel/Michael%20Jackson/003-2.jpg

Piano Picture 4 - http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx257/aboriginalgardenia/MJ%2090s/01_michael_jackson.jpg

Piano Picture 5 - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/goranx/09.jpg

Piano Picture 6 - http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3024/jetjuly311980usa1ts.jpg

Piano Picture 7 - http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9751/jetmarch311977usa0bz.jpg

Piano Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To-6wIC5Q7g

Drums Picture 1 - http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad28/Brittanypwns/Young%20Micheal/mjdrums.jpg

Drums Picture 2 - http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4057/gallery13182409744nm.jpg --88.112.157.18 (talk) 12:58, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

That's all well and good. Pictures of him holding a guitar, sitting at the piano and drums. I can hold a guitar or sit at the piano and make like I'm making a couple of chords too, but I can't play a lick. He actually isn't even listed as playing any instruments on his album credits here, and since so much of this guy was self-promotion and self-hype, I will ask, is there any live footage of him actually playing these instruments? He did a lot of concerts. There should be plenty of him doing something besides dancing if in fact he actually could. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.13.86 (talk) 12:55, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

- Percussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_the_Wall_%28album%29

- Percussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_%28The_Jacksons_album%29

- Drums - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_%28album%29

- Drums - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_%28album%29

- Guitar - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_%28album%29

- Keyboards and synthesizers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory:_Past,_Present_and_Future,_Book_I

- Guitars - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory:_Past,_Present_and_Future,_Book_I

- Drums and percussion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIStory:_Past,_Present_and_Future,_Book_I

- Percussion, Drums, Guitar - Morphine (Blood on the Dance Floor: HIStory in the Mix) --BadMuroZ (talk) 18:58, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi BadMuroZ.

The links you gave it's Wikipedia. The problem is that it's just your article. It's not a reliable source. For example, when i see you wrote <Percussion> for album "off the wall", i think it's not precise: people could believe that Michael Jackson played <percussion> on all the songs. But in reality he played <percussion> on just 2 songs. Musicians or instrumentalists love so much their instrument that they play with it during all their gigs and for all their studio sessions.

Michael Jackson wasn't an authentic instrumentalist. It's not because he had played 3 notes of guitar on 1 song during his career that he was a guitarist. On youtube we can see Ringo Starr played piano. Must we write on Wikipedia that Ringo Starr was a pianist?

Instrumental participation of Michael Jackson

1 - ALBUM TRIUMPH: For this album, you wrote that Michael Jackson played percussion. Can you give me the title of the song who he played percussion?

2 - ALBUM OFF THE WALL

- Don't stop 'til you get enough : (Percussion)

- Working day and night : (Percussion)

3 - ALBUM THRILLER

- Beat it : (Drum case beater) (???)

4 - ALBUM BAD

- Bad : (Percussion-How Now Brown Cow)

- Speed Demon and Leave Me Alone : (Vocal synthesizer) (???)

5 - ALBUM DANGEROUS : He played nothing

6 - ALBUM HISTORY : here on Wikipedia, i can read that Jackson was credited for playing instruments such as keyboard, synthesizer, guitar, drums and percussion on the single and album. Is it possible to obtain sources?

7 - ALBUM BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOOR

- Morphine : (Percussion, Drums, Guitar)

8 - ALBUM INVINCIBLE

- Cry : (Keyboard Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer) (Drum Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer)

- You Rock My World : ( All Musical Instruments Performed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins) (but he played what?)

For instant, i'm sure he played with musical instruments on 7 songs. And you? --Roujan (talk) 19:25, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's position at Birth

Michael Jackson, technically is the seventh of nine children born the Joe and Katherine Jackson. Because Marlon's lost his twin at birth that would make Michael the seventh not the eighth. Strickland55 (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

As you said "technically". Tbhotch* ^{۩ ۞} 21:00, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 71.131.185.237

{{edit semi-protected}} The young Michael Jackson owed his vocal technique in large part to Diana Ross. In October 1969, it was decided

[why?] due to extensive physical abuse at the hands of his father about which his mother could do little at the time

[by whom?] Producer Berry Gordy's daughter Hazel who saw Michael come to cut a record one day with a black eye and a busted lip.

that Jackson would live with Ross. Not only a mother figure to him, she was often observed in rehearsal as an accomplished performer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.131.185.237 (talk) 20:17, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. You need a reliable source that supports that reason (physical abuse). Qwyrxian (talk) 00:50, 25 February 2011 (UTC)