User talk:Finnrind

Uí Ímair

I'm glad to see you've reappeared! I've done some work on the Uí Ímair I was hoping you would look over. Obviously we can't just accept a legendary pedigree for Ivar, but since the article is about who were most probably a dynasty of some fashion, I think it is harmless to give some possibilities the Scandinavian sources offer. The possibility that Sigurd Ring and his 'descendants' may have had 'Swedish' origins is at least fun to entertain. DinDraithou (talk) 14:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks DinDraithou - I'm probably just back for a brief visit a week or so (pretty occupied in RL) but it's good to see that you and others still keep up the good work :) I'll try to take a proper look at this and assosiated articles later (hopefully this evening CET) - from a brief glance it looks good, despite the possible "Swedish connection" ;) Regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 16:53, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Ivar of Waterford and Clann Somhairle

It's a shame we have lost most of the history of Ivar's Waterford dynasty. John O'Donovan thought they might be ancestral to the O'Donovans of Waterford, noting Ivar's son Donndubán and the likelihood of a daughter of the Uí Fidgenti king being the mother of him and others. The trouble is that I've never heard anywhere else of the Waterford O'Donovans and think they might be imaginary. Of course the real O'Donovans themselves might be fictitious... Ó Corráin suggested their Uí Chairpri pedigree might be fake but I haven't mentioned that in their article yet, if I should in all fairness. Too many of my cousins used to be named Ragnall, which I note was the name of two of Ivar's sons and a grandson, but who really knows why.

You'll be happy about this: the Clan Donald DNA Project have now tested their chiefs and all are Norwegian variety R1a. They don't have the MacDougalls they need yet to say 100% for sure about Somerled, and so a non-paternity event can't be ruled out, but is looking less and less likely to me, especially after looking at this paper by Alex Woolf. DinDraithou (talk) 02:26, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

I have just created Clann Somhairle. DinDraithou (talk) 18:56, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Well a Norwegian ancestry for the historical Uí Ímair is unsupported even if the chiefs of Clann Somhairle are of Norwegian descent. Godred Crovan's paternal ancestry is technically not known for sure even if Woolf tries to base an argument on it. Then he argues that he is identical with the Gofraid mac Fergusa in Somerleds pedigree, which of course can never be proven, and there are other possibilities. Finally a "Norse world internal" non-paternity event could have broken a Danish/Swedish line with Norwegian DNA. On page 14 Woolf even concedes that the descent might originally have been "through the female line", which is already well known and I have mentioned at Uí Ímair. Descent through the female line counted for little in the Gaelic world and so this might have encouraged some editing.

On the other hand, the DNA people might be wrongly assuming the MacDonald R1a must be Norwegian. I think it is though. If it is then more testing should reveal who and where their cousins in Norway are. The MacDonalds do not appear to be short on money and so we should know soon. DinDraithou (talk) 21:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Anyway but who really knows. A historian discusses some of the problems with the later Uí Ímair here in some detail.

I have now added Ivar's mostly poorly documented family to the article, including his great-grandson Echmarcach mac Ragnaill, and mentioned their role in the loss of Norse Dublin. What you said about Gilla Pátraic I have included. DinDraithou (talk) 00:55, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the whole history of Ireland, Scotland and Northern England during the Viking Age, the Uí Ímair appear to me to have been overall significantly less successful than the Norwegians. After their early successes, only a handful of their later dynasts were very notable. And it's easy to forget that their later Kings of Mann and the Isles, soon after the brilliant career of Godred Crovan, became vassals of the Norwegian kings and were never able to regain their independence. In the end they were ingloriously sold by Norway to the Scots. Finally I remember that the Kingdom of Dublin and all the Norse colonies in Ireland were pioneered by the Norwegians.

The Norwegian Clan Somhairle alone are almost as much of a success story... so what have you been complaining about?! ;) DinDraithou (talk) 18:59, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm not really complaining :D (nor do I really have an agenda of promoting Norwegian origin for those guys who were prototypes of Scandinavian tourists - getting drunk and intimidating the natives). I'm just not sure we should put too much weight in the legendary origins of Ivar the Boneless, the verifiable origins of the Ui Imair remains obscure. As I recall, both O Corrain and Downham argues that the Hebrides was also within the Ui Imair sphere of influence - it is of course possible to imagine rival Norse dynasties in Orkney/Hebrides and Ireland, but from what I've seen they were for the most part acting together. Also, even if the claim in AFM( or FA, can't remember?) that they were brothers seem isn't supported elsewhere, at least Amlaib Conung and Ivar acted in close cooperation, and Amlaib is assosiated with Lochlainn (whether now this then meant Norway or the Hebrides, it probably didn't mean Denmark...) Finn Rindahl (talk) 20:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

I think their origins are more verifiable than that. What we can support is the conquest of Northumbria by the Great Heathen Army, which was of Danish or Swedish origin, and which was led by a certain Ivar/Ingwar. Conveniently the Uí Ímair appear as the overlords of Northumbria a few years later. The problem with your argument is that it doesn't really matter whether it was the legendary Ivar "the Boneless" or not!

I agree with Kingdom of Ormond. Kennedy (Ireland) requires its creation. DinDraithou (talk) 01:00, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, if I can't convince you they were Norwegians (actually, no such thing as "Norwegians" excisted in the 9th Century...) at least I'd like to question how you make them Swedes "...of Danish or Swedish origin". I can't recall seeing the Great Heathen Army described as anything else than Danes, but then again I haven't read that much on the subject. If there are recent works indicatinf a possible Swedish origin (apart from the ancestry of Ragnar Lodbrok) than should probably be included in our article the Great Heathen Army.

The wording in Clann Somhairle re Woolfs research looks much better now than in your first version BTW. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 11:49, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I mainly say 'Danish or Swedish' because at this time it is difficult to distinguish the Danes from the Swedes. Both were speakers of East Norse and not the West Norse of the Norwegians and later Icelanders. Because the Swedes were known to the Romans at least as early as Tacitus, and the Danes were not, it is generally assumed that the Danes are more of less an offshoot of the Swedes, not unlike the historical 'Scots' of the first millennium were 'Irish'.

Add to that the statements of Saxo on the origins of Ragnar's family, then add to that the fact that quite a number of famous kings belong to both 'Denmark' and 'Sweden', and add to that the apparent fact that the early 'Swedes' and 'Danes' appear not to have cared greatly who was who, and add to that the fact that part of modern Sweden used to be in Denmark.

Finally there are not a small number of Swedish runestones telling of British adventures![1] I have more to say but have worn myself out for the moment.

Oh and I don't think the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle specifically says Danes where it mentions the Great Heathen Army. DinDraithou (talk) 23:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Genealogies and Ostmen

Hi Finnrind. Good to find such a good medieval Irish scholar! I need your input on a few matters. 1 - Irish genealogy - are the reference sections too long? 2 - I can't find much genealogical data, even in Leabhar na nGenealach, on the Ostmen. I'm especially interested in ones outside of Dublin such as Waterford and Limerick. Any ideas? 3 - i really would appreciate any thoughts on some of my more recent articles - Leabhar Ua Maine, Nehemiah Donnellan, Maelsechlainn mac Tadhg Ó Cellaigh, Cian d'Fhearaibh Bolg. And what I consider to be my best, Dubhaltach Mac Fhirbhisigh. There's not that many of us working these eras, and I want to get them right. Fergananim (talk) 06:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

SOMEONE IS READING MY ARTICLES??? Bloody brilliant!!! Look, I'm delighted to get any thoughts and input, no matter how 'unqualified' you think you are. This is all a learning process, and the 'teacher SHOULD learn as much from the 'student'.

Good point on references. Some were added really as resources, so I best recatorgise (see, you've helped already!). The bulk of those listed are however extremly pertinent to the subject, and all the more valuable because, incredibly, this seems to be an area utterly overlooked till now.

What's the info in IKHK? There u go again!

I'll try to take a look at those other artcles of yours later, but don't expect to qualified input. Look, if its only correcting grammer and spelling, that will be a help. Nothing on Wikipedia can be considered definitive unless it recieves multiple input. And you are as good as the rest of us, so fire away!

Cheers, you've made my day! Fergananim (talk) 11:45, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I can't fault a word Angus says. The man is outstanding. All your books sound like essential reading for me, especially Maud's. She wrote an excellent book back aroudn '97, Ireland, England and Wales in the 11th Century, packed with Welsh genealogies, though I remember it been brutally reviewed. vols i and ii of NHI are essential. As for others? Early Christian Ireland by Charles-Edwards; Medieval Ireland:An Encyclopedia, though its very expensive; The Celebrated Antiquary by Nollaig Ó Muraíle is ESSENTIAL (as is everything he writes. Seriously make an effort to get his articles); Irish Leaders and Learning Through the Ages, by Paul Walsh (priest); The Island of St Patrick: Church and ruling dynasties in Fingal and Meath, 400-1148, (ed.) Ailbhe Mac Shamhráin; War, Politics and the Irish of Leinster by Emmett O'Byrne I found supriseing detailed on the era 1166-1399, even though its main subject was in the 15th-16th century; Government, War and Society in Medieval Ireland: Essays by Edmund Curtis, A.J. Otway-Ruthven and James Lydon, ISBN 978 1 84682 105 9 I found engrossing; The Kingship and Landscape of Tara, (ed. Edel Bhreathnach), is expensive but fantastic for the late prehistoric-early historic era, c. 200-600. I'll refrain from mentioning any others. Just check out the bio links and see if you can get the articles and books in the nearest university library (saunter in like ya own the place - works for me!). And don't be afraid of giving them a go on wiki. Remember, there is no such thing as stupid questions or stupid efforts; only stupid answers and stupid results. Fergananim (talk) 12:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

You've probably noticed but...

...I've opened a discussion on reorganisation articles dealing with Irish history at Talk:History of Ireland#RFC: Irish history series. --RA (talk) 23:12, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed yes, but thanks for the notice anyway :) I'll wait a bit and see what the other good folks have to say, but maybe I'll add a cent or two tomorrow. Finn Rindahl (talk) 23:14, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Finnrind. You have new messages at Rannpháirtí anaithnid's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Christian Malone

Somehow, while meaning to do that article on Malone, I ended up creating Conchobhar Ua Flaithbheartaigh, King of Iar Connacht 1117-1132 and Muireadhach Ua Dubhthaigh, Archbishop of Connacht, 1075-1150. Typical! Fergananim (talk) 02:19, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Cenél Conaill

I've seen a reference or two to them before, possibly in Byrne, but don't think it is an error. There are several cases like this so you have to rely on the context if not provided with a more "formal definition" of the Irish sept. For example Síl Lugdach can refer to to the Corcu Loígde but also to at least one supposedly unrelated northern sept, I think of the Uí Néill. So some say Síl Lugdach mac Ítha to be specific. But often such multiple occurrences may come out of daughters ("marriages", as the Irish understood them) and other shared ancestry and associations such as fosterage. Further back, if you look deeply enough both the Éoganachta and Uí Néill become more difficult and eventually impossible to distinguish from the Érainn/Dáirine. Intermarriage across the island, and probably across the Irish Sea, was always extensive. Despite arguments for the very ancient and isolated ancestry of the population, the vast majority of Irish genetic lineages are closely related to each other and also closely related to British and Pictish and a great many Continental, including Germanic, lineages and these are all of fairly recent origin in Western Europe, < 4000 yrs BP, with most much younger.

Anyway I've run out of time for the Irish and their pedigrees. As of this morning CERN have protons flying around the Large Hadron Collider at incredible record energies and so I need to finally learn my partial differential equations! Quantum mechanics! Once I've finished helping out the Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project people here at Wikipedia I will probably quit. Before that I can email you a few resources, one of which Fergananim has mentioned, if you would like. Others involve the Vikings. DinDraithou (talk) 01:37, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Just sent you 5. DinDraithou (talk) 15:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I didn't notice your message of 01:37 (just checked "last change" - I'm not used to getting many messages on my talk...) I've received those files: Thanks a trillon!! Pure gold, you really made my day! I had Downham in print, but the others seem like very valuable additions to my "library". The only drawback for Wikipedia is that now I'll most probably spend more time reading than editing...

I once started studying partial differential equations and Quantum mechanics! at a Norwegian University, but after a few years I realised that I just felt more stupid the more I learned, and started studying metaphysics instead... I certainly hope you will not quit - even if you're cutting down on article-production just having you around is a great asset for this projects generally, and those few of us interested in Medieval Ireland spesifically. All the best and thanks again, Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:37, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Happy to help! But I think I have to quit if I'm to move forward in life.

I was attending one of America's best public universities and made the mistake of going into linguistics and philology when I could have gone into their excellent physics program. From there I was all set to move to Uppsala University in Sweden to study philology and do some other prehistory stuff but got screwed by visa-passport timing and a nasty Swedish government office. But I realized later that linguistics and philology, despite being as challenging as the true sciences, move at a glacial pace and are unsatisfying. So I've spent two and a half years in a remote (and cheap) location trying to figure out what to do. Currently the choices are physics and neuroscience. Physics would require me to spend a much longer time studying before entry but I love what they want to find out with the LHC. Dark matter! Mass! The second (quicker) is filled with creepy people who brain damage monkeys but they (not the same people) are getting farther and farther with brain-machine interfaces and artificial brain technologies, for example Blue Brain. In either case the math will be mostly self study for me because I have an inability to suffer through tediousness associated with the classroom.

I'm not imaginative enough for metaphysics. I can generate theory but need to have a lot to work with to avoid being incoherent, i.e. I can't just "write". But it always sounds rewarding to me. DinDraithou (talk) 17:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Just be careful you don't create antimatter or a black hole by mistake, that's not easy to revert (or so I seem to remember having been told). It's been a pleasure getting to (wiki)know you, hope to see you around sooner or later. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 17:58, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Fuzzballs! It's been a pleasure wikiknowing you too. Take care, Finn. DinDraithou (talk) 21:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Ta dah!

Gilla Críst Ua Máel Eóin Fergananim (talk) 03:04, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

:D Finn Rindahl (talk) 09:31, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

re: Ireland 800–1169

Whoops, sorry about that. I'll use edit summaries for things like that in the future.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 07:41, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Amhlaeibh Mac Innaighneorach

At present, I cannot find anything on him, and reckon that's all there is to be found. Supriseingly, Amhlaeibh isn't a Norse forename, its old Irish. Amalgaid and Amhalghaidh were forms that got utterly mixed up with the Norse Auliffe. See Aulay for more info.

I'm still unsure about how to use the sandbox, but guess I better give it a go! Fergananim (talk) 15:27, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

And wow! GREAT work on the Ireland 800-1169 article. Very impressive! I applaud the Sean Duffy quote, because he's right, the era is always told from a viking or english viewpoint, instead of from that of Ireland and the Irish. The Historiography and Nature of the written sources are especially good. BUT! Can the story of those years be told from a point that does not relie on the rise and fall of Viking power? Irish history does not begin and end with foreign intervention. Great, great work. Fergananim (talk) 15:35, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words, still a work in progress but I hope I'm moving in the right direction. The Nature_of_the_written_sources I stole, with references and all, from our ollamhs work on Áed Oirdnide. The Historiography needs to be expanded with the main issue with Irish historiography, which I believe is that of the search for/the denial of a distinct natio in medieval Ireland. I've read a few comments on it but it's a complex issue and also (still) a bit controversial - but it certainly is the core of historiographical problems like the mythification of Clontarf and Brian. And yes, you are more than right: Irish history does not begin and end with foreign intervention, but up until recently that has been the approach of historians... The main reason why I started expanding that article was that it was a "Viking only" article, I've tried to include more of other stuff but see that I'm still too Viking-centered. I'll expand more on the article talk page. Thanks again&best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 23:05, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I think that Amhlaeibh more than likely [possibly] refers to the 'Norse name'. I think that it's just an evolution of Amlaíb. Compare these lists on instances in the annals: Amlaíb / Amhlaoibh, and Amalgaid / Amhalgaidh. What has confused me is that certain historians, and etymologists have stated that the family of the Earls of Lennox used the names which equated to the 'Irish name' (Amhalgaidh, etc.), but in some of the actual Gaelic records of their name it seems to be the 'Norse name' (Amhlaoibh/Amhlaíbh); for example the poet Muireadhach Albanach wrote the name this way, and I think that's how it appears in the MS 1467 as well [2]. Confusing. These names are interesting to me because I wonder if my own (Hebridean) name originates from the 'Irish' or 'Norse' form. What of Innaighneorach? Is that a name, or a position? Google just turns up Amhlaeibh Mac Innaighneorach.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:31, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting & confusing at the same time I would say :) Trying to look into this I noticed Amlaíb of Scotland, Alex Woolf seem to make quite a lot out of (what he clearly identifies as) the Norse origins of his name. Curious about the possible origins of MacAmhlaidh I even looked up Amlaith, but that wasn't helpful at all ;) Finn Rindahl (talk) 12:12, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Haha. I've always had a liking for Aulë, I never knew of Amlaith until now.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 07:14, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Orpen

What I've read of that book is magnificant, well worth the re-print. I'll see if I can add some. Good start, though.

I made a start with Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair. Does it help any? Fergananim (talk) 18:26, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Blockquote

Sorry! I was about to put the quotation in blockquote tags, but I realized that it was not necessary—WP:MOS asks for blockquote tags only for quotations of four or more lines (and in some other circumstances) and your quotation was only three lines at my screen resolution (1280x1024). I guess I forgot to remove the closing tag. Again, sorry for the mixup. G.W. (Talk) 18:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Dublin bishops and diocese

When I added the citations on the Archbishop of Dublin page I should have edited the history section and bishop table. Both sources say "c. 1028" (on the abbreviation pages of each book state "c." = circa). I've now edited the Archbishop of Dublin page to state "in about the same year" in the history section, and "circa" in the bishop table.

The Moody&al source is available via Google books on page 309, but as you'll see it gives basic information about. The Fryde&al source is also available via Google books on page 350. Those two books at Google have limited previews, so you'll find there pages purposely left out.

Also in the history section I've added a reference about when the diocese was established in 1028.

There is another source about Irish bishops, archbishops and other higher clergy "Fasti Ecclesiae Hibernicae: The Succession of the Prelates and Members of the Cathedral Bodies of Ireland" by Henry Cotton. It has six volumes and are available online:

• Vol. 1, The Province of Munster (i.e. The Ecclesiastical province of Cashel)
• Vol. 2, The Province of Leinster (i.e. The Ecclesiastical province of Dublin)
• Vol. 3, The Province of Ulster (i.e. The Ecclesiastical province of Armagh)
• Vol. 4, The Province of Connaught (i.e. The Ecclesiastical province of Tuam) - (NOTE: That website states "The history of the popes, from the close of the Middle Ages. Drawn from the secret archives of the Vatican and other original sources (1898)", but when you download or read online you'll find it is volume 4)
• Vol. 5, Illustrations, Corrections, and Additions
• Vol. 6, Supplement (Appointments up until 1870)

The earlier information about the bishops and archbishops I find is not very reliable, but the later post-Reformation information is more reliable. In volume 2, Diocese of Dublin, pages 7–8, mentions the first seven early bishops, although the diocese didn't exist back then. How much credence to that information is correct I cound'nt say. Also on page 8 mention Donat, the so-called first diocesan bishop. It doesn't mention when he was consecrated, just that he "distinguished himself by building the Cathedral of the Holy Trinity, or Christ Church, about the year 1038".

I'm no expert but I hope this information will be helpful. Regards Scrivener-uki (talk) 14:00, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Early Irish literature

Some of the above may be of use. Fergananim (talk) 13:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, thanks for drawing my attention to that article. I sort of got stuck within the details of the Church reform, but I hope to be able to make some more progress soon. A separate section on Literature is indeed needed for Ireland 800–1169 (even if it will most probably be History of Ireland 800–1169 eventually), and that would be the place to resurface our friend Gilla Críst Ua Máel Eóin - currently in hidden text as I did not know where to put him ;)

I notice you are putting some of the links provided by Scrivener-uki in the above section to good use, keep up the good work. Finn Rindahl (talk) 14:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

provincialate

Apparently it is, though one I've never heard of before. Found it in the source material. Are you thinking of what our freind said, and perhaps dating the section 800-1200? I thought it seemed a good idea. Fergananim (talk) 23:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I've given it some thought, and my conclusion is that we probably shouldn't. I'll elaborate on the article talk page. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 08:55, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Caithréim Chellacháin Chaisil

Great to finally have it. I don't have Eiru 1974 either but will look. Fergananim (talk) 14:07, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Grand, saves me the trouble! Ha! Fergananim (talk) 14:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Four Masters

You may find this site useful as they publish a great many books on Irish studies of our era. I'll give you links to a few of the books concerned:

• http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/contents.php?intProductID=978
• http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/product.php?intProductID=836
• http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/contents.php?intProductID=343
• http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/contents.php?intProductID=702
• http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/product.php?intProductID=852

You may already know of it. Don't be too hasty buying, as they are pricy! Fergananim (talk) 00:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing my attention to these, they look very interesting - especially "Ireland and Europe in the Twelfth Century". But alas, as you point out, they're pricy indeed... I've just recently got a pile of books, including Duffy's encyclopaedia and Byrnes IKHK, so I will not be buying more fore a while. For Wikipedia purposes, it almost feels like I have to many sources know - I spend much more time reading than writing. Back when I created most of the current articles in Norwegian Wikipedia on Irish medieval history all I had was a couple of pdf files by Ó Corráin, and then I created 3-4 articles per day... (Nor very good articles I admit :P ). Finn Rindahl (talk) 11:06, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I can really appreciate that. The only thing I can suggest, is what I do. Go to your local uni, find and make photocopies! How do you feel about the present state of Ireland 800-1169? Fergananim (talk) 21:06, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Hehe, my local uni doesn't have much on Irish history I'm afraid. The present state of Ireland 800-1169 is unfinished, I get to easily distracted and there's tons of stuff to read. The church reform seem to be heading in the direction of a separate article, the chronological history otherwise ends rather abruptly in 1050. What I'd really like to do is fins out some more about the historiography of Ireland, that seem very interesting. Do you know any good sources for an overview of that? Finn Rindahl (talk) 21:33, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, though I have tended to keep away from historography. Perhaps I should amend that. Okay with you if, over coming weeks, I take off where you left the article? Fergananim (talk) 00:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I would feel quite relieved if you would want to take over actually, I've got less time and more distractions now than when I started out. I have some notes for Cashel 1172 and the "with opposition"-section until Muichertagh Ua Briain, so I should add some more there, but for the remaining sections my head is just as blank as the article in its current state. Finn Rindahl (talk) 06:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Give me a while to get started, come back in a few weeks, and promptly have a heart attack of envy at the great job I'll have done. Fergananim (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I've got a strong heart (or so my doctor assures me), so this sound promising indeed. I'll try to get the sections I've started "finished" (nothing is ever finished at Wikipedia) during the weekend. Best, Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK

I saw your note about Gaelic Journal but it is only 1168 characters of prose in my estimation so will not quality until it is at least 1500+. A DYK might be: ... that the Gaelic Journal, first published in 1882, was described as being the first journal devoted to the living Irish language. Good luck. ww2censor (talk) 18:37, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, missed that requirement... Maybe I'll add some then. Finn Rindahl (talk) 18:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Prose is prose, not quotes, not captions, not templates, not references, etc. If I remove every quotation, etc., I estimate it is between 1500 and 1600 now, so you should be good. It's not kb but characters that count; copy and paste the text into a word processor that does a character count, but remove all the non-permitted stuff before counting. Good luck. ww2censor (talk) 00:34, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Gaelic Journal

On April 13, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Gaelic Journal, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 05:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

re: Dubgaill and Findgaill

Thanks for the link, I'll save that. Actually maybe you ought to take a crack at it the article first. You've got a better grasp at this stuff than I.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 05:37, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Was afraid you would say something like that... OK, I've made a start in a sandbox [3], comments most welcome. Finn Rindahl (talk) 07:44, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Nice job on the new article. You chould put it for a DYK. On GoogleBooks there's Divided Gaels: Gaelic cultural identities in Scotland and Ireland, c.1200-c.1650, on pages 128-129 you can see a part which mentions how both terms were used after the Viking Age too. Just click the book and search for "Dubhghoill", it should pop up those two pages.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 07:05, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Hm... "...did you know that when the black foreigners arrived in Dublin they made a slaughter of the white?" ;) Maybe I should save that one fore next April 1st. McLeaods book looks interresting, certainly worth mentioning. I should also mention later "contemporary" usage in Ireland, when fionn-goill is used to denote the "old normans" as opposed to the "new English", and then there's also Gaill Glasa (green foreigners). Finn Rindahl (talk) 07:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Around Christmas-time I suggested a possible Halloween hook, but the DYKers weren't impressed. So there are Black, White, Green, and Grey foreigners. Have you come across any other colours?--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 06:03, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, Jón Steffenson seem to argue that the dubgaill was named so because they carried red shields... ;) I've nominated the article for DYK (and a couple of days before that Cellach of Armagh) - no response whatsoever so far. The hook may be a bit too weird, suggestions for ALT hook most appreciated.

Medieval on my brain

I was much impressed with History of Gwynedd during the High Middle Ages and Culture of Gwynedd during the High Middle Ages. I will probably use them as a guide for our Ireland 800-1169/1198?/1200? article. Kingdom of Gwynedd I may yet use in them for the likes of Thomond and other Irish kingdoms. Kinda sad that it takes so long to bring our own rich history to this wiki leval. Fergananim (talk) 07:54, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Another very ipmressive article is Scotland in the High Middle Ages (before you despair utterly, note that it has a broader scope than ours - not being limited to history of...). It doesn't have to take that long to bring the presentation of Irish history to a decent level (though FA seem quite a stretch away) - if Irish editors spent half the time they until now have spent arguing about British POV instead on adding content to Ireland-related articles, the number and quality of the articles would have doubled within a year ;) Finn Rindahl (talk) 10:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

All too true, and there are so few of us medievalists to begin with. Fergananim (talk) 04:29, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Gaelic revival

In case it's not on your watchlist, I have edited Gaelic revival back down to its pre-2008 state. If you want to expand it a little based on your reading for the Gaelic Journal article, now would be a good time. As I say on the talk page, what's there at the moment is based on a fairly crappy Brittanica article. If we could find something a bit more authoritative on Thomas Davis and Thomas Moore it could be completely replaced. It's not really what the revival was about anyway - more like background. Scolaire (talk) 11:52, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, your edit has been noted and is appreciated ;). I've got a couple of other things to sort out just now (the coloured foreigners and poor old Cellach), but if you want to have a go at it the sources for Gaelic Journal should have some useful info, in particular the introduction to O'Learys book which gives an overview (avvailable at Google books). I wouldn't spend too much time on the Thomases just now, as you say that's more like background, and presently background for something that's not yet described... Best regards&happy editing, Finn Rindahl (talk) 12:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I've actually done the Thomases now. Just wanted to get that out of the way before getting down to the important stuff. I have to get back to RL now. I'll see when I have a chance to expand. Scolaire (talk) 12:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Cellach of Armagh

On April 23, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cellach of Armagh, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Dubgaill and Finngaill

On April 24, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dubgaill and Finngaill, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Synod of Cashel

I'm much happier with the article now. Thanks for expunging the weasel words. There is a great balance around Giraldus' views now that point to his probable PR. Altogether, very scholarly, readable and balanced. Good work. Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:27, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, happy to hear that. Hope others will be satisfied as well... Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 23:24, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Thx!

Thx for the info about the unified login, Finnrind! I appreciate your help, and especially the fast response. Great! Gray62 (talk) 09:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Ciannachta

Have started article on Ciannachta. Can you add anything to it? Fergananim (talk) 06:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

That would have to be from JFByrnes IKHK if so I guess, maybe I'll get around to take a look later. I have quite a lot of different stuff on my plate right now (RL&other projects), so don't sit up waiting for my additions though :) Keep up the good work! Finn Rindahl (talk) 10:56, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Hope you are keeping well. Fergananim (talk) 03:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

wikibreak

I will most probably be a lot less active until August, in periods I will be completely absent.

Deleting a Link

I have a little question: I have added a link to the article "Conversions of Units" in the section "Free conversion software" and you have deleted it. The link was http://www.sttmedia.com/unitconverter and I think it is a correct link in this section: The tool is free, the tool is portable, you can use pre-defined or custom units and it includes even more units (4500) than the other mentioned tools which are still in this list. So why is this a spam link? Can you explain it to me?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.139.57.42 (talk) 09:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Aplogies for late answer. The site may or may not be useful - that's for editors of wikipedia to consider. 24 links to this site has been added by ip 80.139.65.80 , the remaining linkadditions also from unregistred users: 80.139.43.192 (5), 80.139.95.9 (3), 80.139.59.122 (2), 80.139.39.200 (1). All of this adresses rather close to yours... This clearly suggests a conflict of interest, and linkadditions made in order to promote teh website, not improve wikipedia. Finn Rindahl (talk) 18:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey there, Finn Rindahl

Just saying hello, and letting you know I'm "still" sort of here, or retured a little, or reborn. Also thank you for watching my pages when I wasn't active. How has your giant Norwegian language project been going? Is it in Bokmål or Nynorsk, or did I already ask that?

Myself I am lazy and do not yet have differential equations. But I have become interested in the interpretations of quantum mechanics, which I only poorly understand so far. Niels Bohr looks like the one to start with and I am preparing to order a volume. And what is nice is that some of those articles need work so I will be able to learn as I improve them. I love Wikipedia. DinDraithou (talk) 20:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see you're "sort of here" - I'm sort of not here right now, mainly staying at locations with very limited internet access for the summer. But I will be around on a more regular basis from August again, hope to see you around then. Finn Rindahl (talk) 18:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Happy Finnrind's Day!

User:Finnrind has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Finnrind's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Finnrind! Peace, Rlevse 00:09, 17 June 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:09, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thank you :) Finn Rindahl (talk) 13:41, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Norwegians?

Hi again. I'll leave these marvelously interesting thoughts here for you. Looking at my wonderful pedigree I've discovered yet one more Óláf, now bringing the total to three or four. Thus I grow increasingly haughty. Add to that about 60 Rognvalds/Raghnalls, if you count my cousins too. Now we know that the dialect of Norse spoken in Limerick and Ireland and elsewhere was Norwegian predominantly, but don't these names also have more Norwegian associations than Danish? And then you see I also had the insight that the later Waterford dynasty had more Raghnalls than historians know what to do with. It seems the name Ivar has more Dano-Swedish associations, but by his time in the late 10th century it was common in the west. Then again the grandfather of Rognvald Eysteinsson was an Ivar. Am I doing this thing again where I've somehow got it all wrong? I wonder from time to time if I don't know what I'm talking about. Anyway I have now given Amlaíb Ua Donnabáin an article, for he seems to have been the one who moved the family south into what would later become the famous Carbery, where we would become filthy rich magnates (and pirates) under the frighteningly rich MacCarthy Reaghs. Nobody has any big money now though thanks to the stupid and worthless Stuarts (Charles II of England), who gave away most of our estates to little English soldiers three feet tall (rant). Oh and I gave our necromancing navigator Ímar Ua Donnabáin an article too. He and his splendid ship live in a lake. And I have added a touching paragraph to O'Donovan#Norse period. DinDraithou (talk) 23:54, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Óttar the Black

Ottir Iarla. DinDraithou (talk) 05:54, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I have just sent you what I think is the core part. It's only a little more than two pages, but may possibly lead in other directions from the look of it. No hurry though. We have a good start and the Cotters don't look like they'll be going extinct anytime soon. I'm sure the family know who they are, more or less, but too few others do. A little exposure at Wikipedia could generate interest in the right places some day, leading to proper research on the family itself. DinDraithou (talk) 00:41, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Steenstrup

I feel so embarrassed for sending you a worthless source! Sorry about that. I found it in Bugge's note, which said something like "For more on this famous viking, see Steenstrup." Anyway. Thank you for taking the trouble. I know you're busy and I very much appreciate it. DinDraithou (talk) 16:05, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Lidwiccians and Jarnkne

Thanks for adding that about the possible identification. I discovered it too but got a little confused, and then got sidetracked. The Lidwiccians are a great find with a silly sounding name and they should absolutely be included. I think it is fairly established that this person was everywhere and of as much consequence as an Uí Ímair dynast. Do you think the article should be renamed? Personally I like the sound of it more than the English. DinDraithou (talk) 17:09, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

No, I think the name is good - as far as I can tell we can't establish a really reliable patronym so sticking to the title is sound. I haven't read Radners discussion as referred by Downham, it's references to p. 207 of FAI and that's not part of any of the electronic versions I've consulted - presumably some sort of commentary or appendix only in the printed edition. Still I personally find it hard to believe that the Ottar mentioned in 883 could be the same as our Ottar active 30 years later.

Interesting person indeed, and the "French connection" is well worth exploring further. But damn those Scandinavians for their lack of imagination when it came to names, and damn the chroniclers for not including the patronyms of all these Ottars, Olafs and Ivars... I'm only online for ten minutes now and five minutes then - but keep me posted about what you people come up with and I'll try to chime in whenever I'm around. All the best, Finn Rindahl (talk) 20:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I just found this! Howorth, Henry H., "Ragnall Ivarson and Jarl Otir", in The English Historical Review, Vol. 26, No. 101 (Jan., 1911): 1–19. also JSTOR DinDraithou (talk) 14:40, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Óttar of Dublin

User:Urselius has now given us a fine new article on his probable ancestor, but there are some questions about his successors. I have done a lot of the research already, which you can find in Talk:Óttar of Dublin if you have the time. DinDraithou (talk) 16:05, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Donnubán mac Cathail

You might enjoy. DinDraithou (talk) 23:32, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

WoS

Just in case Urselius is unavailable, I have sent you the volume (original credit User:Brianann_MacAmhlaidh). Cheers! DinDraithou (talk) 15:31, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank, got it :) Finn Rindahl (talk) 09:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Lords of the Isles

Talk:John_of_Islay,_Earl_of_Ross#Titles. DinDraithou (talk) 22:14, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

your comment

Re: your comment on User talk:Scolaire[4].
Finn, with respect I disagree with you. I know you are trying to help Scolaire but I have to point out that the tone of my comments while terse and direct (if a little 'curt' - which I will address), contains no superfluous language (other than perhaps "I'm afraid I have to warn" - which could have been "I am warning", but the former is less aggressive) and is not 'pompous' (or 'condescending' for that matter). Unless you can support that accusation of pomposity I'll ask you to please rephrase that remark.
Forgive me if I misunderstand you but it seems you infer that I have belittled Scolaire - I don't see how. These warnings[5][6] are very short and to-the-point. They address remarks made by Scolaire nothing else. As Scolaire is an experienced user a lengthy post on 'why avoiding insulting remarks is a good idea' was inappropriate (and would have been patronizing, as much as a template would have been), hence the shortness of the warnings.
Also by way of context the area in which Scolaire was warned is under probation (British isles naming dispute) that means policies will be strictly enforced and is under heavy scrutiny by sysops. Failure of users involved in the area under dispute "to get it" about policy is even more frowned upon than outside of it. Again I realize you have Scolaire's best interest at heart in defending them but they escalated this matter by making an incivil and unnecessary response to a to-the-point warning. I recognize the good faith of their redacting the remark to LevenBoy (hence my hesitancy to issue a level 3 warning) but the manner of their response to me was not advisable after a warning. The fact is incivility between users in this topic area is at an untenable level, and further incivility breeds worst incivility & more disruption. Strict interventions will be made until the users involved in incivil discourse stop using it.
Sorry for the length of my post but I thought your response was thoughtful and needed a proper reply; and I will try to be a little less curt to users like Scolaire in future--Cailil ^talk 18:18, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment Cailil. Let me first say that I appreciate the work you and others do as admins here - I am/ have been admin myself at various other Wikimediaprojects and I know that it can feel like an ungrateful job at times.

• "...do come across as "pompous"..." That was certainly not intended on my part as ad hominem(!) - which is to say I'm not trying to say anything about you as a person or a wikipedian but about how those warnings "come across", i.e. could be perceived and was perceived by me. To me the way these warnings was phrased, especially in linking to various wp:acronyms, was a bit like templating an experienced user. I'm sure this was not your intention. Not sure how to explain that further (also please bear in mind that English is not my first language), but less formality and more "friendliness" might have helped achieve what you wanted by issuing that warning.
• belittling. Maybe it was I who read you wrong, you seemed to say that by describing the warnings as pompous Scolaire was belittling you ("...your comments attempt to belittle my warnings by belittling me..."). As I see it Scolaire was on the ball (the warnings) and not the man (you) - if anything you could perhaps feel that it was an attempt to belittle you by belittling your warnings...

I'm distantly aware of the turmoil concerning the name of those islands surrounding Isle of Man, but have tried to stay far away from that topic despite my interest in mediaeval history of Ireland and Great Britain. I will certainly try to stay clear in the future as well ;) All the best and happy editing, Finn Rindahl (talk) 19:07, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem Finn, I take your points and understand. Scolaire has decided to escalate this further again. That's their choice, I'm not worried by that at all--Cailil ^talk 21:40, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Eoin MacNeill

Spotted your com. to Scolaire. I just picked up a 1920 copy of Phases of Irish Historylast week. Haven't had much time to go through it at any length, but, from the intro, his views on 'Race' as cultural constructs rather than biologically fixed seem to me far ahead of his time. If you need any refs. from this publication on your expansion of the article, let me know. Best. RashersTierney (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Multiple scans are available at Internet Archive. Here are two.[7][8] Unfortunately his excellent Celtic Ireland is not, but Donnchadh Ó Corráin released an edition in 1981 with 15 new pages of his own excellent notes to update MacNeill, as well as a new introduction and a select bibliography of MacNeill's works. This I own. A must have. Exactly what is everyone working on? DinDraithou (talk) 20:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Feel just a tad deflated to find 'Phases' on Internet Archive (impulse purchase in Dublin). There was just a mention at Scolaire's TP that this article needs work. Nothing particularly planned. Will help out there if I can should things get started. RashersTierney (talk) 21:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I felt bad mentioning it. But if I had come across an old physical copy I would probably have bought it too even knowing I could read a scan for free. That's still a very nice thing to have. Since I have the select bibliography by Ó Corráin I can contribute that, but according to him the essential source, complete with an exhaustive bibliography (27 pp.), is F. X. Martin and F. J. Byrne (eds.), The scholar revolutionary, Eoin Mac Neill, 1867-1945 (Shannon 1973). DinDraithou (talk) 21:48, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm a great fan of Int. Arc., and am actually pleased that I 'discovered' the book (in a 'charity shop'). Haven't read any of his work before, except some archival correspondence when researching the proposed Irish Free State seal design. Looking forward to learning more about his academic writings. RashersTierney (talk) 22:03, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for input to you both. I would have bought the "real" book as well had I come across it. I've been thinking about expanding that article for quite some time, but never gotten around to do it. I planned to use The Writings of Eoin MacNeill by F. X. Martin, Eoin Mac Neill by his successor John Ryan and the ODNB biography by Patrick Maume - I got these three from a fellow wikipedian and if anyone wants to have a go before I get around to it (some time late in 2012 or so) I'd be happy to send copies. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 22:06, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Alexander Bugge

I have finally begun with Magnus III of Norway. What has happened with Alexander Bugge? DinDraithou (talk) 22:23, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Precisely nothing so far, which is simply because I keep getting distracted by other stuff (both off- and onwiki). There are plenty of sources easily available online, so there's really no excuse. Adding Magnus to my watchlist to keep track of what your up to ;) Finn Rindahl (talk) 22:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Alexander Bugge. DinDraithou (talk) 04:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Article collaboration

Just wanted to express my appreciation for all the time and effort you devoted in improving that article I started, especially on such short notice. Good ideas and fresh eyes definitely made it a better article. Best Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 23:55, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind words - it was a pleasure. I notice from my watchlist that you've made some additional updates to the article, when I get around to it I'll read it again. PLease feel free to drop me a note if you make other articles where you'd like some unqualifie feeedback - I'm generally very interested in the medieval history of these islands, but have to admit that the history of Wales (and indeed most of GB south of Northumbria) is something I haven't looked much into (yet). I've mainly been reading/writing on Ireland, and spent quite some time this spring trying to sort out History of Ireland (800–1169) - that's still unfinished I'm afraid. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 12:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I've been tweaking the article with small changes, nothing major. But have a look and make changes and comments whenever the ideas occur. I'll keep you in mind on other articles. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 15:23, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Article

I have emailed you something! DinDraithou (talk) 05:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, got it! Will read later, but looks interesting. Finn Rindahl (talk) 11:35, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

If you're still looking for inspiration, I would like to make Ivar of Limerick into a featured-quality article. He is undoubtedly one of the most exciting characters from the Norse period of Irish history and was to Limerick and Munster like Dublin's Olaf Cuaran and Northumbria's Erik Bloodaxe. I've been piling up sources, and though I don't have everything I want yet I do have quite a lot, enough to at least double the size. It could be quadrupled or more with a thorough discussion of Norse Limerick, the reliability of CGG, the political background in Munster, and so on. Also at least one more king of Limerick will need an article, namely Tomrair mac Ailchi. Amlaíb Cenncairech looks more respectable now if you have not looked recently. I'm not so sure about Aralt mac Sitric because he is only mentioned once in the annals and in scholarship almost only as the likely father of Maccus and Gofraid. Then there is Barith/Barid, whom I need to learn more about. Care to help me with Limerick? DinDraithou (talk) 23:09, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll certainly keep an eye on it, but I think my contributions will probably be only talk page advice - at least for the time being. I don't want to discourage you, but I doubt that it is possible to bring Ivar to FA standard - there's simply too much we don't (can't) know about him. Anyway, keep up the good work and I'll join in occasionally from the sideline - I'm afraid that's all I can promise right now. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 06:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course it's not possible, but look at the size of Eric Bloodaxe, whom we know much less reliable about. My goal is an article that looks and feels like a featured article. You know he is personally important to me and to a certain family.

"OR" is a major problem and you could help me by pointing it out where species of it could potentially be found unacceptable, that is where it is not a product of what the modern scholars themselves say. For example, I would love to say it is absolutely obvious, from CGG and AFM and AI and the later accounts, that Donnubán, probably his deputy, ended up in command of the remainder of Ivar's forces, possibly for a number of years... but are we unsure for Wikipedia, even when the sources scream it? Do the sources require modern scholars/commentators for Wikipedia, when what they have said is not contradictory? Tricky. Really I should contact someone like Ó Corráin. There is a lengthy paper waiting to be written on this regionally famous relationship. DinDraithou (talk) 08:11, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

For the hacker Chris Goggans, see Erik Bloodaxe (hacker).

- seriously!!! Anyway, i get what you mean, and I think a lot improvement could be made to that article. As always when we're digging deeep into something, OR is a danger - but you seem to have dug up a lot of sources, stick to them and you'll be fine. I'll be watching, and helping if I can. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 08:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Ivar of Limerick#King of Munster. DinDraithou (talk) 22:59, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Old Shetlandic

Hi,

I just remembered something that might amuse you. It is a piece of rhyme from Shetland in the local extinct variety of Norse, I found it in an old book some time ago. The spelling is approximate!

Barn vill ikka teea, barn vill ikka teea, takkan leggan slog an veggan, barn vill ikka teea!

Regards, Urselius (talk) 13:20, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, interesting indeed. I'm having a hard time trying to dechiffer the meaning of this - the main part is probably something like "Children will not be quiet" , current Norwegian "Barn vil ikke tie", while the rest is more mysterious: "Takkan" could be "thanks" but more likely some form of "take", "leggan" could relate to "legs" or "lay down" while "slog an veggan" I presume is "hit the wall" ("slo i veggen" in current Norwegian). If there was a translation given in that old book I'd be most interested. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 13:43, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

The translation given was something along the lines of: "The child will not be quiet, the child will not be quiet, so take it by the legs and hit it against the wall, the child will not be quiet!" Quite in keeping with some of the more brutal aspects of the Viking Age! I imagine that it went through a couple of generations when it was a nonsense rhyme, the meaning being unknown, before it was recorded. A remarkable little survival. Urselius (talk) 14:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Laughing out loud! Thanks again, Finn Rindahl (talk) 14:30, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

If you think that's brutal, see what happened to the last MacWilliam claimant to the Scottish throne : Meic_Uilleim#Gille_Escoib (quote). Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 15:30, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I remember reading about that one a while ago - rather brutal politics in those days... Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:56, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I'm not going to spam a lot of talk pages, nor am I going to be online at wikipedia during Christmas. So I'm wishing all my fellow editors at Wikipedia "Merry Christmas" on my own talkpage, if I know you well enough that you'd appreciate such a greeting you should be wathcing my talk :) Finn Rindahl (talk) 21:16, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Merry Christmas, Finn! DinDraithou (talk) 06:18, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Takk

Corrected your addition at Inner Hebrides, which I trust you don't mind per your User page! "The Inner Hebrides" is a singular archipelago, but "I can see 12 Inner Hebrides from my bedroom window" is also OK as a plural. After I foolishly made some edits to Kings of Mann and the Isles, DinDraithou has recently sent me a small library of stuff by email which apparently is partly thanks to you (see my talk page), so my thanks also. Ben MacDui 09:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks MacDui, I didn't realise that. Mighyt be worth mentioning somewhere in the article, as it is two slightly different meanings of "Inner Hebrides". Is it ok as a singular too - as in "Canna is an Inner Hebride"? Or other archipelagos as well, "I can see 3 Phillipines?" DD has sent me far more than I have sent him, so most of the thanks should be directed to him, but if there's anything you can make use of that is good indeed. To the best of my knowledge, the early mediaeval history of the Hebrides as well as Northern Scotland and Orkney/Shetland is extremely obscure - I would treat any source that attempts to make precise statements about this period with caution. All the best. Finn Rindahl (talk) 12:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

It's definitely not used in the singular! You'd usually say something like "Canna and Muck are two of the Inner Hebrides". I know nothing about Filipino usage I'm afraid. I will do my best to be vague - or at least less than definitive about early island history. Ben MacDui 17:00, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Artur Balder, Spanish Benevolent Society, Little Spain

I think you should check the above listed articles -included international references- and make some conclusions about "personal" attacks from norwegian librarians against internationally wellknown writers. Thanks --Lolox76 (talk) 17:08, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

My advice to you to refrain from making personal attacks still stands, and you would do well to pay attention to it. Finn Rindahl (talk) 17:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Then we are in the same track, Finn. --Lolox76 (talk) 20:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)