User:Art LaPella/Long hook

Thank you for your "Did You Know" hook, but please make it shorter. Template talk:Did you know#Instructions states: "Suggested facts (the 'hook') should be:...short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces)". Wikipedia:Did you know#Selection criteria states: "The hook itself should be short and concise (fewer than about 200 characters, including spaces)." (Quotes as of January 2008.)

Frequently asked questions:

Q: Did you write this page just for me?

A: No. Hook length is a routine, oft-recurring problem.

Q: If I shortened the hook, would it be accepted?

A: That would be a good start. There may (or may not) be other problems with your hook or article, but they will be listed separately, later as described by Additional Rule G1.

Q: Do I shorten the hook where it is, or do I add a shortened version after the long hook warning?

A: Either way. If you shorten the hook where it is, add a comment after the long hook warning, such as "Shortened".

Q: My article is 1500 characters. Isn't that long enough? Why should it be shorter?

A: The hook is not the same as the article. Template:Did you know lists several hooks, typically beginning with "... that". Generally speaking, hooks should be short and articles should be long. Hooks are so called because they are intended to hook readers into reading the article.

Q: What is a character?

A: A character is a letter, or a space between letters, or a punctuation mark, or anything else made with one keystroke (or one shifted keystroke). The next sentence is an example of how to count characters. This sentence has 32 characters. Count 4 for the four letters in "This", 1 for the space between "This" and "sentence", 8 for the 8 letters in "sentence", 1 for the space after "sentence", 3 for "has", 1 for the next space, 2 for the "3" and the "2" in "32", 1 for the space, 10 for "characters", and 1 for the period. 4 + 1 + 8 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 10 + 1 = 32.

Q: Did you give any consideration to the quality of my hook, or are you simply a beancounter?

A: I'm simply a beancounter. The selecting administrator is free to ignore my count. In practice, that seldom happens, but it isn't my choice. All Wikipedia rules can be changed or waived if the consensus changes.

Q: I count about 40 fewer characters than you do.

A: Then you aren't including the spaces, as specified at Template talk:Did you know#Instructions. For what it's worth, I don't count the "..." but I do count the "?".

Q: So just how do you count characters?

A: See the Template talk:Did you know#Instructions paragraph that begins with "To count the number of characters...". But don't use User:Dr pda/prosesize.js; that's intended for counting an entire page. And don't count the edit page – characters that don't show at Template talk:Did you know, such as [[ '' and link piping don't count.

Q: It's the selecting administrator's job to make hooks concise, regardless of the character count.

A: Yes it is. It's also his job to select, and a hook that doesn't need reworking is probably more likely to be selected.

Q: So what is the rule about who should shorten a hook?

A: There isn't any. Often the author does it. Often a Did You Know regular (or anybody) suggests a shortened version. Often it goes unshortened. Maybe a selecting administrator will shorten it, and maybe it just won't be used. Hooks significantly over 200 characters on the Main Page are rare.

Q: Why is there a length limit at all? Wouldn't it be better to describe my article in full detail?

A: Wouldn't it be better to have room for more hooks, leading to more articles? Or would it be better to eliminate your hook to make more room for other hooks? Once again, all Wikipedia rules can be changed or waived if the consensus changes, but I prefer beancounting to politics.

Q: If you have time to count characters and write objections, why don't you just shorten it?

A: I do various kinds of copyediting, but I don't write or rewrite much text (unless it was obviously written by someone whose first language isn't English) as my text tends to get rewritten or removed. I don't consider myself much of an author – either that or the rest of you are more concerned with appearances than with educating, and in any case there's no point writing stuff that won't be kept. Besides, if you shorten your own hook, you get to choose what stays and what goes.

Q: That hook is only half that long. Didn't you notice where the question mark goes?

A: Hooks usually end with a question mark, but sometimes there are succeeding sentences beyond the question mark. If succeeding sentences appear to be intended as part of a hook, the characters should be counted. If they aren't intended as part of the hook, they shouldn't be there – unless they are a comment, in which case they should be more clearly distinguished from the hook. The rule limits the length of a hook, without mentioning how many sentences, and the purpose of the rule is to limit the entire hook. Usually, a second sentence will make the hook too long, so extra sentences appear most often in hooks that need to be shortened. When this objection comes up, I often wonder if they really meant that the extra sentences should be removed from the hook. Some believe there should be no extra sentences, but that issue should be addressed directly, not by interfering with counting characters.

User:Art LaPella