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July 5

Readings of some Japanese Names

I was wondering how the following Japanese names are read. I'm totally lost except for the first one, which I'm guessing to be Ichiro Yamaguchi...is this correct? Anyhow, they are:

山口一郎

岩寺基晴

草刈愛美

岡崎英美

江島啓一

Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Krokke (talk) 05:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Upon Googling, I found these are names of サカナクション (Sakanaction) members. According to MySpace page, they are read as:

Ichiro Yamaguchi
Motoharu Iwadera
Ami Kusakari
Emi Okazaki
Keiichi Ejima

--Kusunose 12:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's really helpful! ありがとう！ Krokke (talk) 23:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's important to note that the answers you were given are in Western order, while your question was in Eastern order.200.42.217.61 (talk) 20:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ugh!

I have wondered this for years. How is the stereotypical Native American "Ugh!" as seen in Western comics supposed to be pronounced? My native Finnish language leans towards /ugh/, with a separately pronounced h sound, but surely this can't be the original pronunciation? JIP | Talk 12:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I mentally said /ʌɡ/ when reading such comics as a child. —An gr 12:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

or [ʌx] with velar fricative. – ishwar (speak) 16:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine /ɪɡ/. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's that sound of disgust all or nearly all English speakers make — "uh" with a guttural sound at the end. There's no hard 'g' sound, just like there's no 'g' in "argh". (I'm assuming you mean "native American", and not "Native American", i.e. American Indian.) Paul Davidson (talk) 13:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think JIP is referring to American Indians, whose two most stereotypical utterances in popular culture are "How!" and "Ugh!" As for the pronunciation, I've always heard it rendered (not usually in serious contexts, but in old Warner Brothers cartoons and such) as Angr suggests above. Deor (talk) 14:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am referring to American Indians. The "Ugh!" sound they are claimed to utter is stereotypical enough to make it across to native Finnish US Western comics (see Punaniska), not merely Finnish translations of English-language ones. But I have never heard the sound spoken, so I had no idea of its pronunciation. JIP | Talk 18:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, then I concur with Angr's /ʌɡ/. Paul Davidson (talk) 01:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese full moon

What does "full moon" translate to in Japanese? I know "new moon" is Mika, but I'd like to know what "full moon" is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.30.113.220 (talk) 15:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This would be 満月 (まんげつ in hiragana, mangetsu when romanized). Incidentally, "new moon" is 新月 (しんげつ in hiragana, shingetsu when romanized). --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 16:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And 三日月 (みかづき, mikaduki, literally "third-day moon") is "crescent moon". Originally, shingetsu ("new moon") referred to mikaduki because in the first and second days of the moon phase, the moon is hardly visible thus mikazuki is the first visible ("new") moon. --Kusunose 17:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One note: the most common romanization is "mikazuki" (which Kusunose used once). "Mikaduki" is an older romanization which isn't used as much anymore as it doesn't give an accurate representation of how to say the word. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it's commonly used in Japan as part of so-called "Word Processor Romaji" (Best translation I can think of) because it's the only unambiguous way of typing it on a computer (Since zu gives you ず) I actually can't remember any other way of typing it. tu is also common for つ, di for ぢ, as unhelpful as they may be.200.42.217.61 (talk) 20:50, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

False to fact

I gather the expression "false to fact" or "false-to-fact" is a somewhat common expression mainly used in the linguistics area. I have looked for a reasonable definition of this in some reference work but so far I have come up short. From context, I think it means an expression that makes linguistic sense but is contradicted by the factual evidence, but I am not sure. Can anyone help me with this expression? Do we know anything about its etymology?--Filll (talk | wpc) 15:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not a linguist, but I recall this phrase to be connected to the Sapir-Worf hypothesis and Alfred ~~Korzysky~~ Korzybski. He argued that the structure of language forces us to think in factoids which are structurally different to the "real" reality, i.e. they are false-to-fact.

Please take this with more than a pinch of salt and better wait until experts declare my statement to be false-to-fact. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In my few years as a linguistics major I never heard that phrase. Researchers like to come up with snappy phrases so that others will quote them in their work and that will widen the chances of someone buying their book. That's why the better portion of humanities education is learning fancy terms for obvious phenomena. -LambaJan (talk) 23:14, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or perhaps the "worser" portion ? :-) StuRat (talk) 02:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arab vocalized transliteration

Just need a vocalized Latin transliteration for افخارستيا (eucharist), as I found no appropriate web tool. Thanks in advance, --Brand спойт 19:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's either afkhaarastiyyaa or afkhaarstiyyaa, where the kh represents a velar fricative (a fricative, like th or s, where you'd normally pronounce the stops k or g). I don't know without the diacritics whether or not there's an 'a' after the 'r' but if there is it's short. You know, it seems more natural to omit it and go with the second pronunciation. Remember that the doubled 'aa's are actually pronounced long, so you'll put the stress on the 2nd and last syllables. -LambaJan (talk) 23:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you can have the cluster "rst" in Arabic...and it's probably "-rist-", since it's just an Arabization of the (modern!) Greek pronunciation of "eucharist". Adam Bishop (talk) 02:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Adam. Wrad (talk) 02:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

July 6

british loot

was the british loot better than todays indian corruption? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.52.41 (talk) 14:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What? Clarification, please? And please sign your posts by typing "~~~~". Thank you. IceUnshattered (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You rang? Presumably the OP is asking how the British Raj compares to the current state of the home-grown Indian government. This would do better posted at the Humanities desk. Clarityfiend (talk) 18:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

suffer fools gladly meaning?

what does the phrase doesn't suffer fools gladly mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.140.65.34 (talk) 17:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See the Wiktionary entry suffer fools gladly. Strad (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

July 7

Translations of book titles

I’m wondering whether titles such as Italo Calvino’s Se una notte d'inverno un viaggiatore are rendered differently into English for different markets. I’m referring to “traveler”, which in Britain, Australia and New Zealand is spelled “traveller”. Is there one print run for the US/Canadian market, spelled with one l, and a separate one for the Aus/UK/NZ market with 2 l’s? If not, what determines how the title is correctly referred to? Is it the way it’s spelled by the first English translator? Or the best-known translation? Or can it vary, so long as everyone knows what you’re talking about? -- JackofOz (talk) 04:46, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Type If on a winter's night a into amazon.com and then amazon.co.uk and you will see that both spellings are used for different editions. You can look at each edition to see where the publisher is based. Strad (talk) 05:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the Canadian standard would be "traveller", but Canadians are often forced to buy American editions of translated books. Marco polo (talk) 13:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google counts show "traveler" about 2.8 times as common as "traveller" on web sites in the .ca domain, for what that's worth. --Anonymous, 06:25 UTC, July 8, 2008.

People, please consider: the decision is most likely the pub₤i$h€rs', handed down to the translator by the publisher's editor! -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the same principle would apply to books written directly in English, such as The Road Less Travel(l)ed. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is certainly true that publishers choose the title of books differently according to different national markets, whether they are translations or not. One well-known example is Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, which became Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in the US. A substantial fraction of Agatha Christie's novels were retitled for their US editions: for example, 4.50 from Paddington became What Mrs. McGillicuddy Saw! (and later Murder, She Said). These changes amount to complete new titles, but simple spelling changes do also occur. Isaac Asimov mentioned in one of his memoirs that one of his early books had "Math" in the title, and when he saw the UK cover he said it was misspelled: the word had been changed, correctly for British usage, to "Maths".

Sometimes changes like these are made only in the title; other times they are made thoughout the text as well. A few months ago I read a book whose title was The Four-Color Theorem, but where the spelling was "colour" throughout the body: it was, of course, a US edition of a British book. On the other hand, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone does not contain the expression "Philosopher's Stone".

I can think of one book that is a translation whose title was different in the US and UK editions, but it's more of a retitling than a language-usage change. Peter Høeg's novel Frøken Smillas fornemmelse for sne became Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow in the UK, but Smilla's Sense of Snow in the US. --Anonymous, 06:37 UTC, July 8, 2008.

That's great information, so thank you. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where's Waldo books are known as Where's Wally in the UK. I actually asked the publisher about this, and they said the name "Wally" wasn't considered zany enough in the U.S., so they needed something even less common. I'm sure an American comes out with a book called Where's Randy, it will be retitled in the UK version. The Book of Negroes by Lawrence Hill was retitled in the U.S. because it was thought the word "Negroes" is too offensive for Americans. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are some more in List of works with different titles in the UK and US jnestorius^(talk) 22:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

re my surname

I would like to know how to write my surname in aramaic(Jesus christ aramaic) and/or latin. My surname is OSMOND (an english surname)

Thanks in advance

Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.232.205.37 (talk) 17:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your surname does not have a standard Latin or Aramaic form. Surnames generally cannot be translated. However, Latin documents in premodern or early modern times often tacked on "-us" at the end of a surname for males or "-a" for females. Using this method, your surname in Latin would be "Osmondus" (male) or "Osmonda" (female). There is no corresponding Aramaic form of "Osmond", since there was never a practice of rendering European names in Aramaic. You could transliterate your name into the Aramaic script, however. Note that Aramaic is written from right to left, and that the symbols indicate only consonants and long vowels. Since "Osmond" lacks long vowels, there would be no symbols for vowels, but there would be an initial symbol for a glottal stop. Applying these rules would produce a transliteration something like this:

Marco polo (talk) 21:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to The Oxford Dictionary of Christian Names, "Osmundus" and "Hosmundus" are actually attested (in the Domesday Book) Latin forms of "Osmond" as a given name. You could also use a Latinization based on the name's meaning—as Gheert Cremer became known to history as Gerardus Mercator, since cremer and mercator both mean "merchant", or as Philipp Schwartzerd Hellenized his surname (="black earth") as Melanchthon. The elements of Osmond mean "god" and "protection", so something like "Deimunimentum", though unwieldy, might be appropriate. Deor (talk) 00:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sphincter Boots

A pair of pointed Italian shoes popular in the 1960s. So named by Prof Sven Sundquist of U of B.C. in mid-60s for their ability to rupture one's sphincter if kicked with said boots on. the original pair were several sizes too large (men's size 9) worn by 7 year old Lyle Manchester of North Vancouver B.C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnny7oma (talk • contribs) 22:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fascinating. Now, did you have a question? -- JackofOz (talk) 23:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect he'd like some more information. The description makes me think of winklepickers like in this picture [1] Steewi (talk) 00:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the U.S. we call severely pointed shoes 'roach-killers' because you can get a roach with them even if it's cornered. -LambaJan (talk) 04:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

July 8

Hypenation of "cell line"

Should "cell line" not be hyphenated? Why? ----Seans Potato Business 11:41, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need for a hyphen because the meaning is literally a line of cells. As a general rule (there are no hard and fast rules), the hyphen is only necessary when the literal meaning of the words is modified and to be taken to mean one thing. So picket line is a line of pickets, starting line is the line at which to start, but bee-line is not a line of bees and a bread-line is not a line of bread.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Beeline [sic], at least, appears in two standard dictionaries (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate and Encarta) in what's referred to as the "closed form": a compound word comprising two nouns without a hyphen between them. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shantavira, there's at least one other hyphenization rule I would add: when two nouns combine to function as an adjective (called, I believe, an "attributive" noun) modifying a third. Thus: cell-line variations, cell-line anomalies, etc. This serves to disambiguate, preventing the reader from wondering how to group the nouns (i.e. not cell line-variation, cell line-anomaly...). -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:48, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Myself as a non-reflexive objective pronoun

Every "proper" language source I've consulted, including two dictionaries, a grammar blog, two English writing books, and one English professor (Master's degree) says that this usage is incorrect. However, it is very common (almost too common to be an error, I'd say) and it's even used this way in the King James Version of the Bible:

"Now Haman said in his heart, Who would the king delight to honor more than myself?" --Esther 6:6

So my question is why this is prescribed as incorrect usage. 4.242.147.107 (talk) 17:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure it doesn't say "whom"?

... AnonMoos (talk) 17:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It actually says "To whom would the king delight to do honour more than to myself?". I think it's okay in cases where "myself" (etc.) is being used in an emphatic way, as in the quote from Esther, but not when it's just being used to get around the fact that the speaker can't remember whether to say "me" or "I" (as in "that was just between John and myself"). —An gr 18:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, interesting. Thanks to both of you for your answers (and to you in particular for correcting my quote.). 4.242.147.4 (talk) 18:46, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sustensis

What is the meaning and derivation of the word Sustensis —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.55.105 (talk) 17:35, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not certain, but it appears to be the Latin for sustainable (or at least some people believe it to be so). Algebraist 17:47, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be a company name neologism, without any other definite meaning in either English or Latin, unless it's an error for sustentis (the Latin ablative plural past participle form of the verb sustineo "to support"), or has the Latin "-ensis" adjective suffix added to a placename (like Arizonensis for "of Arizona"). AnonMoos (talk) 17:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was going by this Google scholar hit. Is that an error? Algebraist 19:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No word "sustensis" is in the Oxford Latin Dictionary, so it's safe to say at least that it isn't a word of Classical Latin. —An gr 20:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English words with a "-tens-" element are derived from the Latin verb tendo "to stretch", while English "sustain" is derived from the Latin verb sustineo "to support", which is a compound of the verb teneo "to hold". If someone wrote a word beginning with sustens- in Latin, then it's safe to bet that they were probably somewhat confused over whether tendo or teneo was the basis of sustineo... AnonMoos (talk) 01:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Help with Russian language article concerning overstrung pianos

I would like to replace the bad Wikipedia article Cross-stringing. I have collected a bunch of stuff already, but it would benefit from a reference to this article to provide more positive comments concerning piano maker Herman Lichtenthal, who is discussed starting after footnote 42, and who is well know for having exhibited overstrung grand pianos at the 1851 Great Exhibition. The chapter is linked from МУЗЫКА В СТОЛИЧНОМ САНКТ-ПЕТЕРБУРГЕ here, and from what I can tell it was first published in 1925, and I think the author died in 1935 so if I understand Russian copyright it should be public domain by now. I was able to get a relatively good grasp of the article with online automatic translations, but I need to figure out how to cite it as well as its references, and would like to quote one of the quoted descriptions, particularly about the sound, and the square, which don't remember having seen mentioned anywhere else. - Mireut (talk) 17:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest waiting for (or contacting) user:JackofOz, who is both a speaker of the language and a player of the instrument. As it is 5 AM Down Under, he may be currently in the process of snoring his favourite oevre of Brahms and Liszt and get up when darkness settles on Fichtburg, MA. Of course, there may be other experts with the required knowledge. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm flattered, Cookatoo, but I'm no expert in anything. Regular readers of my user page know that I'm the original Jack of all trades and master of none.

Mireut, I'll have a look and do what I can; it may take some time for it to get to the top of my priority list. In the meantime, real experts are welcome to take the running. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:19, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, guys, and I'd appreciate it if you get a chance, JackofOz. Do you think this is the same thing? I just didn't want to submit it to the translation project without knowing more about it. - Mireut (talk) 17:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Upon this"

I just wrote the following in the Pac-Man World 2 article:

Spooky: Back in Pac-Village, Spooky creates an uproar, and Pac-Man has to defeat him. Upon this, Spooky will be re-imprisoned, peace will return to Pac-Land, and the ending sequence with the credits is played.

Can I use "upon this"? The way I understood it, it means: "...Pac-Man has to defeat him. Upon Pac-Man defeating him, Spooky will be re-imprisoned...". But "upon" is one of the prepositions in English I have never heard anyone use, only seen it in writing very seldom, and thus I am unsure about how to use it. Is this sentence grammatically correct, or can it be written in a more grammatical way? JIP | Talk 18:34, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it sounds better to join the two sentences into one and write "upon which" instead of "upon this". —An gr 19:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I might rephrase the beginning of the second sentence and write "Once Spooky is defeated, he will be re-imprisoned, peace will return, etc", which would circumvent the problem. "Upon his defeat" might also work, but doesn't sound quite right to me. 69.106.4.120 (talk) 00:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese Translation Help

I can't find a translation for "prepaid shipping label" (as in FedEx prepaid shipping label). 元払いのレーベル doesn't return any Google hits so that can't be it. Please help. If I just write the whole thing it out in katakana (プリペイド・シッピング・レーベル) will it be understood? 71.174.16.91 (talk) 22:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)Tasukete[reply]

There are several possibilities:

料金前払い済みラベル (Ryōkin maebaraizumi raberu)
元払いラベル (Motobarai raberu)
料金プリペイドラベル(Ryōkin puripeido raberu)
プリペイドラベル(Puripeido raberu)

Hope that helps. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 01:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, but... So I can't use 運賃込みラベル? That's what I swear you had written here just a few moments ago but now it's been edited away. >_< I just wrote it down. Should I scratch it out and insert a different translation? What is most commonly used? This letter has to be done by tomorrow. I feel so stressed... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.16.91 (talk) 22:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)Tasukete[reply]

Yes, scratch it out. I recommend using the first (料金前払い済みラベル) or last (プリペイドラベル). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 02:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I scratched it and wrote 料金前払い済みラベル instead. Thanks so much! You're a life saver! 71.174.16.91 (talk) 02:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)Tasukete[reply]

July 9

"Postcritical"

I've heard the term "postcritical" in relation to both Bible study and literary criticism, but I'm not certain what it's supposed to mean. (Google shows that it's apparently used in other philosophical contexts, like epistemology.) Does it have a definition, or different meanings in different contexts, or is it one of those vague buzzwords like "postmodern"? 69.106.4.120 (talk) 23:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can infer that it refers to a style similar to 'postmodern', but instead aiming at moving past the concept of reading in a 'critical' fashion, but rather to a less literal and more abstract and thematic approach to reading. Steewi (talk) 04:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Riat

My mother recently pulled a piece of money out of our archives, and we have no idea what it is. There is a piece of writing next to it that says it's a 5 riat bill, and that it's worth approximately $15 US. Can anyone give any information on it: The scans are here: [2] [3].

I realize this is not, strictly speaking, a language question, but it is close enough, as it is. The Evil Spartan (talk) 23:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably one of the Rials. Need an arabic speaker to tell which one. Fribbler (talk) 00:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After a bit of external link searching from the various Rials, I found a link to this, which shows it to be an Iranian/Persian 5 Rial note from 1938. Fribbler (talk) 00:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a very ugly typo. Any idea of the worth? Not ripped, but poor quality, obviously. The Evil Spartan (talk) 00:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The best I can find, without access to a catalogue, is this old ebay auction (starting bid nine dollars): [4]. Fribbler (talk) 00:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, it's not Arabic, but Persian - one side also says "Bank of Iran" ("bank" in Persian apparently also being "bank"). Adam Bishop (talk) 01:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops! Should have said "Arabic Script". Fribbler (talk) 01:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

July 10

Gameplay

Is "Gameplay" a proper compound word? --AeronPrometheus (talk) 03:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. See compound word.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. --AeronPrometheus (talk) 09:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Translation bitte

I'd like to get a better translation of "Immer wenn der Steiner kam". It's "Always When the Steiner Came" in List of war films. Also, does "lachende" mean "laughing"? Clarityfiend (talk) 06:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess a more idiomatic translation would be "Whenever Steiner Came", but if it's a movie it may already have an "official" English name. Yes, "lachende" means "laughing". —An gr 06:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In a German database here (containing some stuff in English) the title is given as "Every time Steiner came". It was a documentary in B/W and was produced in 1976 in the then GDR. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 10:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greek for "someone who gets work or energy from the stars"?

So astrology comes from the Greek roots "star" + "word/speech," right? Thus, an astrologer is someone who extracts words or meaning from the stars. My question is, who would be someone who extracts work or energy from the stars? My best guess at the moment is Astroergosist (Greek "star" + "work/labor"). Thanks. --Brasswatchman (talk) 15:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

-(o)logia as a Greek suffix does not really mean "speech" (though it's etymologically related to the word logos). An "Astrourgos" would mean a worker of or in the stars (by analogy with demiourgos), but I'm not too sure about "Ergosis" -- the root ERG was actually replaced by the root ERD in ancient Greek present stem verbal use. I doubt whether the concept can be expressed unambiguously in a single word validly formed from ancient Greek elements according to the rules of ancient Greek grammar... AnonMoos (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If the above suggestion is correct, then the natural English form would be "astrourge". --Anonymous, 22:43 UTC, July 10, 2008.

Very interesting. Thank you both very much. That helps a lot. --Brasswatchman (talk) 03:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

American dialect according to the other side of the Big Pond

So, after reading a good many novels, I haven't come across a British or Australian attempt at describing American dialogue. We Americans often do it (and Brits do it to the Scots): "can't" => "cawn't", British "world" => Scottish "warrld." How do other dialects catch cultural speech oddities? --^La Pianista! 18:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you looking for American dialect in print - or would bad American accents of actors work[5]. Rmhermen (talk) 21:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're looking for the eye dialect of American English as written by other people. --Kjoonlee 01:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scots are British.

Secondly, here's some rather badly observed eye dialect for you: "C'n ah git a glayass ahv wodderr?" Patronising, isn't it?

Generally speaking, it may be the case that you haven't come across a "British or Australian attempt at describing American dialogue" because American writers have a greater tendency towards cultural insensitivity than writers of other nationalities. Or maybe you just need to read more widely. 64.236.80.62 (talk) 15:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, there's plenty of American eye-dialect intended for British readers. Americans certainly have no monopoly on cultural insensitivity; who do you think we learned it from? One frequently occurring form intended to express American pronunciation is "lurve" for "love", which requires a non-rhotic accent to work. Another one I've seen British writers use is "Yurrup" for "Europe". —An gr 16:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

sas elamonthos tu emon

Hi. I heard this in an episode of Relic Hunter. It is used as a spell to control anyone wearing the Ancient Greek necklace, and it's supposed to be in Greek. This probably isn't the correct transliteration spelling, but is it actually Greek and does it mean anything, and if so, what does it mean? Thanks. ~A H 1^(TCU) 23:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can't find "Elamonthos" or anything like it in my smaller Liddell and Scott. The other words seem to be pronominal forms, but not connected to anything in any way that I can understand. AnonMoos (talk) 13:23, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

July 11

How Often Do Linguists Study the World Languages Again?

I want to know how often do linguists research and re-classify the world languages in different language families. Do they research languages again every year, every five years and what? There are some languages which were popular a half century ago but now they are endangered. Some ethnic groups had spoken earlier languages but now they have creolized their languages or adopted new spoken languages, therefore their languages would be under a different language family. Sonic99 (talk) 02:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's an ongoing study - research is always going on. There are some languages which change classification unexpectedly because of new research, especially smaller, less studied languages, such as Australian languages, Amazonian languages, and so on. More and more languages are becoming endangered languages, or worse, moribund languages. There isn't an overrunning society or group that handles or monitors the research, so it's mostly everyone does it as their interested, or as they have data for different languages, rather than being assigned projects. Steewi (talk) 03:12, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Considering that we" or "considering we"?

Which of the following phrases is more grammatically correct?

1) We should marry, considering we have been in love for a long time.
2) We should marry, considering that we have been in love for a long time.

Thanks in advance. --XxCutexXxGirlxX (talk) 04:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1 is better, although I prefer "We should marry, since we ..." Clarityfiend (talk) 06:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They're both correct. Version 1 implies "considering that", but it's possible to drop "that" without doing any damage. However, "considering we" is not a felicitous juxtaposition, so the best options are to go to Version 2, or do what Clarityfiend said. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question on Entertainment desk

Would anyone like to answer this question? --Bowlhover (talk) 06:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was directed to ask here

Is 大戲, or Cantonese opera, in A flat Major?68.148.164.166 (talk) 06:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You might have better luck if you try asking in a Cantonese discussion forum like this one. FWIW my understanding is that Cantonese music doesn't employ just the major and minor keys like we have in the West (which is more or less the answer you were given previously). In any case, what makes you think it is (all?) in A flat major? Perhaps you should follow up the source of that information.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I particularly asked a yesorno question to elicit more response, and to get responses that would provide as much information as possible. Yes, thank you, I didnt' think Cantonese music employed Major and minor keys like in the West, which exactly brings up another question, what exactly do they employ then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.164.166 (talk) 08:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I answered here, the sound clip in the wikipedia article is in C# Pentatonic Major. I'm sure of this. It's possible that the instruments used are tuned to make A Major a popular key. I'm not sure if the Erhu is used but that's tuned to D on one string and A on the other which means D and A, G and E and their relatives would be comfortable keys to play in on this instrument. A minor and C major are related to eachother, they could be in either one depending on how they construct their melodies (In that sound file they were clearly in major). They could also have happened to tune their instruments a half step flat and end up playing in the key they were playing in in that song. Traditional East Asian music nearly always sounds primarily pentatonic, that's part of the characteristic sound. -LambaJan (talk) 14:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What is the reference desk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2008_July_4#Means

To Julia, I thought that the desks were a place to ask questions, not to a dicussion board.68.148.164.166 (talk) 07:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

User:Julia Rossi was asking if you thought it would be a good idea to copy the answer for that question from your talk page to the reference desk so that other people using the page could see it, if they happened to have the same question. That isn't at all idle discussion, it directly addresses your question, so I don't understand your point. --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 08:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because if they had the same question, then they can ask it themselves. Otherwise, it is discrimination if I can't ask a completely original question such as User_talk:68.148.164.166#Bumping_at_the_Refdesk second run response68.148.164.166 (talk) 08:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better to copy-and-paste it for them to read, it's just a courtesy. I don't know why you're talking about discrimination, the discussion you link there seems to be about thread bumping? If you want to refer back to an old thread, just link back to the old discussion at the top of your new thread, and then add only the new detail, like you did in this thread. Reference desk archives are sorted neatly by the date of the question, so it's pretty easy to find things compared to some other archive setups. --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 08:44, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another reason to copy the answer here (or at least a link to it) is to prevent someone from unnecessarily going to great lengths to give you the answer when you already have one on your talk page. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Semantics

What does “summer home” mean: Swami_Vishnu-devananda#Ashrams

In what context does this appear? -- JackofOz (talk) 08:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Literally, a home used only in the summer. Context is always useful in this kind of question, as the term may be used metaphorically.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the context is given in the link:

The first Yoga camp, in 1961, was at the summer home of some students, who opted to surrender material comforts, to sleep on the floor and take cold showers.

Summer home redirects to Summer colony but I don't think that's it. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:46, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Summer house might be the correct article. Fribbler (talk) 09:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non-linear logarithmic

What does “non linear logarithmic” mean: Psychoacoustic_model?68.148.164.166 (talk) 08:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is best asked at the Mathematics desk. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It would appear to be a tautology. There are linear functions and logarithmic functions (and many others). Logarithmic functions are not linear.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you meant oxymoron, Shantavira? -- JackofOz (talk) 09:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It should have been "non-linear logarithmic" to avoid the possible contradiction. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think Shantavira meant pleonasm, Jack. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 12:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some context would help - sometimes a logarthymic plot is used for exponential functions - to give a straight line - so if a function/set of data gives a non linear logarithmic plot then the function/data does not follow an exponential relationship? But really need more context here.87.102.86.73 (talk) 13:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Logarithmic" in the context refers to the relationship between response and stimulus. The phrase in the article should be punctuated as "non-linear, logarithmic response". "Logarithmic" implies "non-linear". I suppose whoever wrote that wanted to emphasize the non-linearity aspect of the response function. --71.175.20.73 (talk) 18:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

proverb

what do you have to say about the proverb- Time and tide waits for no one in 100 words.122.167.53.212 (talk) 10:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In four words, I say, "Do your own homework." —An gr 11:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't understand the proverb, it's explained at the top of Time and Tide (disambiguation). Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And the usual form is 'Time and tide waits for no man'. Algebraist 11:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How about:

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

167 words, but what can you do? --Sean 13:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What base are you counting in, Sean? --LarryMac | Talk 14:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Count each lowercase letter (112) as 1, uppercase (11) as 5 => 167. What, you've never used "Seanwords" before? Clarityfiend (talk) 17:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I used to use "TotoBagginsWords", but I thought they were obsolete. --LarryMac | Talk 17:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

word Innuuendo

Its meaning could be found,117.195.5.127 (talk) 11:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC) but how to use it practically in translatios?[reply]

Do you mean how to translate an innuendo from one language into another? I think that is a very hard thing to do, it may not be possible without an extended explanation of the original context. The same would apply to most forms of wordplay, they do not survive translation very well. --_{tiny plastic} Grey Knight ⊖ 12:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

if you are looking for translations of the word "innuendo", try wiktionary: wikt:innuendo#Translations jnestorius^(talk) 12:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe replace with another innuendo - that has the same meaning - may not work when the innuendo is a play upon words in the context of the book/play.87.102.86.73 (talk) 13:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

mounteback

What is it?89.243.155.109 (talk) 12:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An Elizabethan term for sexual intercourse. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 12:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or a misspelling of mountebank. jnestorius^(talk) 12:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that seems to have happened here. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 12:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes,thanx,that's exactly where the confusion came from.(such an august institution,being so adventurously misleading!)89.243.155.109 (talk) 12:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 214: / Line 214: @@
 :Some context would help - sometimes a logarthymic plot is used for exponential functions - to give a straight line - so if a function/set of data gives a ''non linear logarithmic'' plot then the function/data does not follow an exponential relationship? But really need more context here.[[Special:Contributions/87.102.86.73|87.102.86.73]] ([[User talk:87.102.86.73|talk]]) 13:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
+:"Logarithmic" in the context refers to the relationship between response and stimulus. The phrase in the article should be punctuated as "non-linear, logarithmic response". "Logarithmic" implies "non-linear". I suppose whoever wrote that wanted to emphasize the non-linearity aspect of the response function. --[[Special:Contributions/71.175.20.73|71.175.20.73]] ([[User talk:71.175.20.73|talk]]) 18:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 == proverb ==