Talk:Pi Kappa Alpha

Any particular reason why some chapters on the link page has (SMYTHE AWARD) after their name, while other winners from this year don't? I'm changing VaTech's link to reflect this. There should be another chapter or two, but I don't have the data for this year's winners on hand. Could someone look into that? -JHolmes

Not sure, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Jmlk17 08:12, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Symbols and Motto's

The open Motto of Pi Kappa Alpha has been changed from "Once a Pike Always a Pike" to the current "Once a True Pike Always a True Pike" to reflect the True Pike Initiative passes at the 2004 Convention. The new motto is reflected in the 2007 Edition of the Pi Kappa Alpha Garnet and Gold Pledge Manual and reads: The greatest tradition of Pi Kappa Alpha... "Once a True Pike Always a True Pike". I am not a fan, but it is indeed the current open motto, I believe that this should be reflected but users keep editing my changes.

Also noted in the New Garnet and Gold Pledge Manual is that the White Horse as an open symbol for the fraternity. There are a lot of other symbols so this could be a bit confusing but all the other symbols are listed.. Why not the white horse?

Famous Pikes

I'm currently in the process of refining, updating, and linking famous Pikes in their correct sections. If I have made any mistakes, please feel free to correct them (as per usual), and notify me if there are any glaring mistakes. I appreciate any help anyone is willing to give on this little project of mine, and welcome anyone to refine with me. Jmlk17 09:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The TB guy IS a Pike, UGA initiate, but as this is for "famous" Pikes and not "infamous" Pikes, he should be left off. I'm just hoping I never attended an alumni reception and met him! PikeBoy 2007

Format

This does not appear to be written in the proper format of an encyclopedia article. I believe it is not impartial.

I find this hillarious that me and my suitemate got listed as famous pikes. I salute any person that has that pathetic of a life that they would add that fact to wikipedia.

No, what I find hilarious and pathethic is how you would disrespect your own fraternity and don't care about the information posted here. --† Ðy§ep§ion † ^{Speak your mind} 18:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed...it is pathetic. Jmlk17 22:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Please Cite This

This could be considered derogatory so I ask that you cite your source. I did a quick Google search and couldn't find this name. "Ryan Kauffman and Andy Acs - Founders of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Alliance (GLBTA)" Iheartwiki19 01:11, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm a Pike and I have looked everywhere and cant find any source where they are mentioned. Jmlk17 03:43, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Reverted AGAIN the Karl Rove as a Famous Pike section. Vandals keep removing his name. Hey, I'm a Pike and I'm not too big of a fan of Karl Rove, but like it or not, he's a Pike...just leave it. Jmlk17 20:14, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

6 students, not 5 like the website says, are generally regarded as the Fraternity's founders. The missing student is "Frederick Southgate Taylor." Not only was he a founder, he was the initiator of the entire thing. You need to fix this website mistake.

This article seems a little partial towards the fraternity, especially the last statement.

THE OPEN MOTTO IS "ONCE A PIKE ALWAYS A PIKE" -- please correct this

Revisions

Started revising the page to meet the proper guidlines for a fraternity page; and Karl Rove is listed as an alumni on the official Pike website. Sorry :)

Well, of course he is an alumni...everyone else listed there is as well :) Jmlk17 10:33, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

How can someone be an alumni if they didn't graduate from college, regardless it is worth mentioning since many greek organization take graduation and academic achievement seriously, even social ones. I wouldn't be surprised if PIKE took academic achievement seriously, but that they are trying to grasp a little of Rove's dubious fame. Regardless it is worth noting.--M4bwav 00:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, PIKE does have a policy, especially in the chapter I am in that just because you don't graduate, does not mean that you simply give up your association with the fraternity. He joined the frat, was an active member, and will always be. One of our mottos is "Once a Pike, always a Pike", and I think that right here in this case it does matter.

Jmlk17 05:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, as long as there is a mention of that fact.--M4bwav 13:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that your entry refuses to acknowledge the associated problems that your fraternity has. It's all well and good saying you stand for peace, justice and love of the world, but you cannot ignore the banning, the rape charges and all that alcohol abuse. It's like reading an article on Ted Bundy that says he was someone's son and he graduated from high school - and was in Gainesville for a period of time. 71.43.157.76 02:43, 22 December 2006 (UTC)Def Jam Joe

That makes NO sense...what banning for one? One guy rapes one girl and suddenly my fraternity is BAD? I am sorry for that, but Pike as a whole doesnt condone that whatsoever. And alcohol abuse is rampant in college...it's called college.Jmlk17 09:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Because EVERY month this fraternity has some bullsh*t in the news. This month it's the house they destroyed at UCF. Last month Florida suspended Pike. This fraternity routinely exercises racism,and sexual aggravation of women...and it's ALWAYS just one or two ba guys giving all of us a bad reputation. Do a news search on google for Pi Kappa Alpha and then Dela Sigma Phi and report the difference. Even if you look at news for Sigma Pi - you'll find issues, but the fraternity is taking action t ocut them off. So it makes LOTS of sense. This is not an advertisment for Pi Kappa Alphs - it's supposed to be an unbiased encyclopedic entry. If the Kim jong il page was represented to the world as it likely represented to North Koreans, you'd be outraged. It's on a lesser scale, but same principle.

-- Yours GI Joe

Yeah, because as a Jewish Pike I was definitely banned or something right? Give me a break.Jmlk17 03:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Pikes are an organization that support racists and rapist losers. Thank god everyone knows wikipedia is full of self aggrandizing horse-sh*t. You totally miss the point mr Jmlk17. I'm off to say what a great guy Kim jong il is now...

First off, sign in to start an argument; second, your claims are based on what, personal opinion? What basis are they on? What Pikes have you dealt with? What, if any, fraternal organization are you in? Jmlk17 06:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If you have reliable and consistent information that you would like to add to the article in accordance with WP:NPOV, please do so and cite your sources. Thanks. --Rodzilla (talk) 23:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Colonel Sanders

Was he really a Pike? If so, he would have had to be honorary...anyone?Jmlk17 20:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Colonel Sanders was a 1965 initiate of Alpha Eta chapter at the University of Florida. In 1991 he was recognized posthumously with the "Order of West Range."

Because he was born in 1890 and age 75 at the time of initiation, I'll assume it was a special initiation.

Perfect. Let's keep him on the list then. Jmlk17 09:49, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Somebody removed him again. Just verified him on the "pike finder" on MHQ's website. Truett Cathy was a special initiate too. PikeBoy

—Preceding unsigned comment added by PikeBoy (talk • contribs) 19:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC) 

Scale Rating

I was on the verge of giving the article a rating of B but decided to use a Start because while it is somewhat extensive most of it consists of the alumni list. If anyone really disagrees with this rating at the current moment please let me know and we can discuss it, but the article does need more extensive information as well as more references. Acidskater 08:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Jon Stewart

Until you can add a citation that confirms that Jon Stewart was not initiated, do not remove him or mention that he is not a Pike. He's on national's website and that overrides any one editor's personal opinion unless a citation is provided. --Rodzilla (talk) 15:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

He's on national's site, he's in the G&G (I believe; it's been a couple years since I went through), and many of his biographies online have his membership included. Hence, he is a Pike. Someone just seems to not like the idea! Jmlk17 22:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

To whomever keeps reverting the Jon Stewart entry; We are NOT claiming him as a die-hard, super-extreme member. He gained membership, and a motto of Pike is "Once a Pike, Always a Pike". I believe that statement alone says it. Jmlk17 00:21, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I found a reference and this stupid little revert war can end. The person reverting seems to be someone not familiar with wikipolicy and has had a brief history of vandalism with other articles. Acidskater 04:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright; I'm still personally not so sure of the source (I do see it, and I have read it), but I suppose it should stand. Thanks for the research. Jmlk17 04:41, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm using a public computer, and have no personal history of vandalizing any wiki articles. I'm sorry I didn't know correct policy, and I'm sorry another brother added the Piven shot. But I'm glad you finally got around to realizing you were wrong. Oh, and here's even more proof -- "Was briefly a member of a fraternity. Quit after six months, in part because he did not agree with the hazing. [San Francisco Chronicle, 4/23/02, "Comic Release 'Daily Show' Host Jon Stewart is King of Irony," by Jane Ganahl]" http://www.jonstewart.net/bio/index.html#ed 09.20, 14 May 2007.

If you had sources all along why didn't you just say so instead of creating that stupid little revert war? Its not that people were wrong, the fact was there wasn't a source thus it didn't fit wikipedia policy. If you want to quickly learn how to constructively add to wikipedia go here. Acidskater 16:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It was almost entertaining to watch you guys freak out over it. Plus, I couldn't find the sources until a brother emailed them to me. I have, however discussed the matter with Jon personally, and seen him publically remove himself from the Pika shadow, so I was just waiting for someone to back me up on it. Turns out I didn't need it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.8.1.2 (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Stewart "left after 6 months"

The highlighted segment below has been removed from the article. Pi Kappa Alpha confirms that Stewart is currently an alumnus member of the fraternity in good standing. Therefore, I would characterize the highlighted segment as misleading and, moreover, not encyclopedic and irrelevant. I have removed it and included it here for discussion per content deletion guidelines in accordence with the policies Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons.

• Jon Stewart - actor, Daily Show Host (left after 6 months, purportedly due to hazing-related events)

67.100.185.234 05:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - It is a sourced statement showing that he disassociates himself with the fraternity even though they still recognize him as a brother. I am putting it back up because it is encyclopedic as well as sourced. If this edit is reverted I will be contacting an administrator to set semi-protection for the page because there have been way too many revert wars on this little section. Acidskater 05:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

This is not intended to be a straw poll so there is no reason to vote to keep or not. The fact of the matter is that it is not encyclopedic because the section is a list of members. The specific circumstances of Stewart's relationship with the fraternity is not relevant to his being a member. The place for such information is the article Jon Stewart. The purpose of this discussion is to determine whether there is an overriding reason to include the information despite its non-encyclopedic nature. Furthermore, there is no revert war in progress. Rather, you simply disagree with my reasoning per your argument above. I would caution you about seeking administrative involvement, however, as you have violated 3RR on this article (I have no intention of seeking anyone's involvement on the matter). Hopefully, we will have comments from other interested parties shortly. 67.100.185.234 06:36, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The cited source is questionable since a primary source directly contradicts it. It also makes no mention of Stewart disassociating as you have suggested, nor does any other source I am able to find. 67.100.185.234 06:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)|

There has been a revert war and you said it yourself (3RR means 3 Revert Rule, even though I had 2 reverts in this particular matter). This statement is needed because while he may be considered a brother still he does not associate himself with the Pi Kappa Alpha. To me this statement follows WP:NOT and WP:LIVING, so in order for it to be deleted you need to prove why it doesn't fit them. Acidskater 06:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

By your reasoning, the information should be included in the article on Stewart and not on this article. I agree with that assessment. Aside from the fact that the sources are contradictory and make no mention of disassociation at all, I do not find how Stewart's personal feelings about the fraternity and his individually determined relationship with it has encyclopedic relevance in a list of its members. It is comparable in such relevance to stating that one member was a very active brother while another joined it just for the social scene benefits. What specific language in the policies you've cited do you contend the inclusion follows? 67.100.185.234 06:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm just gonna weigh in and say that AcidSkater's reasoning seems perfectly valid to me and I don't understand how you can't comprehend it. Despite what Pika may want to claim, Jon Stewart deactivated from the brotherhood and distanced himself from the fraternity. He did not stay active, he did not graduate as a Pika, he does not consider himself a brother. Thus, Pika is only hanging on to him for the publicity. What's the problem in the logic that the list should note the fact that there is a dispute in his status? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.8.1.2 (talk) 12:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Since you were previously involved in edit warring with the intent to remove Stewart from the list completely several times, it's not a surprise to find this is your position on the matter. That said, I have no problem at all comprehending AcidSkater's argument. My contention is that the information should be properly included in the biographical article on Stewart and not in a list of the fraternity's members since he is considered, without challenge, a member in good standing. There is no source that confirms either an actual disassociation or a want to do so by Stewart. The source cited (and the many like it that appear in a Google search) are tertiary sources, which are themselves thrown into question by contradiction from a primary source (Pi Kappa Alpha Fraternity), none of which make any mention of a disassociation at all. I have no doubt that some statement or acts gave rise to the notion that Stewart "left after 6 months," but no verifiable information has been cited to that end. Again, more importantly, such information would have its place in the Jon Stewart article, not the Pi Kappa Alpha article's list of prominent members; no more here than, as I wrote, noting that a particular member was either very active or active only in the fraternity's social scene. 67.100.185.234 16:33, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you fail to comprehend the simple fact that Pika has nothing to lose by claiming this man as a brother? If I had a transcript of the part of his speech at William and Mary where he told a Pika brother, "Fuck off, you're no brother of mine," I would gladly cite it right now. However, there is no said transcript. I realize that the Stewart article could discuss his disassociation, but by claiming him an out right brother on the list, you are providing false information to the circumstances of his status in the fraternity. As this site serves to perform an encyclopedic function, blatant falsehoods in articles should not be permitted. Or do you advocate lying in the Wikipedia pages? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StrandedKSig (talk • contribs) 15:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC).

PiKA has nothing to lose by claiming him as a brother (except perhaps some dignity, depending on your perspective) and, no, I don't fail to comprehend anything. While I suggest you review Wikipedia's civility program, the fact of the matter is that Stewart did become a brother of the fraternity. He did become an alumnus member of the fraternity by graduation and never disassociating from the fraternity. As no such transcript, nor apparently any record whatsoever, of any conversation like the one you have described exists, there's no reason to even think that Stewart actually said such a thing. Any discussion of his dissatisfaction with the fraternity should be discussed in his article and not here. 67.100.185.234 02:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Has this issue finally resolved itself? I haven't seen anything here in over a week, and am still curious. Jmlk17 09:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it has, but it seems 70.61.253.50 has taken it out as well as other information. I will be putting that information back into the list. I think a mediation may be helpful as well. Acidskater 06:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I appreciate the help Acid. Jmlk17 09:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Mediation re; Jon Stewart?

Does anyone think we should perhaps bring in a mediation on this? I'm probably going to somewhat distance myself from this argument for the one key fact: I'm a Pike. I must admit that I have researched this entire issue, and I keep finding more and more information that is contrary to each side. I can only find "facts" about certain key parts, and I no longer am convinced of either side. I would appreciate it if someone could comment on a possible mediation on this whole issue. Thanks. Jmlk17 18:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd be fine with mediation. I was trying to let the issue just dissipate but I have no idea why the rules of fact-based information need to be superceded simply because it's a Greek Rush page. I'm not trying to point fingers because the vast majority of the Pikes have been pretty fair about it, but I don't think it's fair that Jon Stewart be listed without some sort of asterisk or disclaimer. Jimmy Buffet, for example, was listed as a Sigma Pi pledge at Auburn, but it's noted that he later went on to pledge and initiate into Kappa Sigma at Southern Mississippi. Couldn't the same thing be done for Jon? StrandedKSig 14:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

After going over everything it seems a mediation really isn't required. This fact is cited and as it pertains to Pi Kappa Alpha it should stay. The editors disputing the fact being kept in the page were unregistered users and they have seemed to let it go. If they were to come back and complain more then a mediation would need to take place, but it seems that all registered users that have contributed to this dispute have all taken the same side of keeping the fact as long as it is cited, which has been now for sometime. Acidskater 14:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you guys are so desperate to include him among your ranks that you're going against documented fact that he left the fraternity. I thought we were supposed to treat the Greek pages as if they WEREN'T rush pages and use facts and not opinions in these pages. It's really sad that corners are cut and special treatment is doled out as long as it makes a long-term contributor look better. Really sad, indeed. StrandedKSig 16:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

As per WP:NPOV, WP:NOT, and WP:CITE this statement will stay. As Jon Stewart is a notable living person and is included among notable alumni for Pi Kappa Alpha through it's listings he will stay in the list. Also as Stewart disassociating himself from Pi Kappa Alpha is a cited claim it shall stay as well. This is not a rush brochure or a page to bash Pi Kappa Alpha, this is an encyclopedic page which states facts. The fact is Stewart is considered a brother of Pi Kappa Alpha but dissassociates himself from it. Acidskater 20:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any kind of notation on the article that Stewart's standing with the fraternity has been called into question or that his disappointment in the fraternity has been cited. You said that would stay, but all the article shows is that Jon Stewart continues to be a brother in good standing. Screw it, Pika's a waste of time - always has been, always will be. StrandedKSig 15:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Why would anyone waste time wanting to be a Pike? I was simply pointing out the legacy of Pika - lying and then trying to cover it up. Pathetic...StrandedKSig 19:18, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

This conversation full of incivility and trash-talking needs to stop...now. If you guys want/wish to actually TALK as the section conveys, then feel more than free to do so. If you want to trash-talk and serve no purpose, than go to another website. Jmlk17 19:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)