Talk:Bashar al-Assad: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 05:09, 8 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bashar al-Assad article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2: 12 months

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Bashar al-Assad, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions

Enforcement procedures:

Violations of any restrictions (excluding 1RR/reverting violations) and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Violations of revert restrictions should be reported to the administrators' edit warring noticeboard.
Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

With respect to any reverting restrictions:

Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism.
Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction.
Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 3 times. The weeks in which this happened:

This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Sina Zekavat (11 September 2019). "Persian Wikipedia: an independent source or a tool of the Iranian state?". openDemocracy. Retrieved 12 September 2019. Next, I decided to check the Wikipedia page of Bashar al-Assad. The English version comprehensively outlines the economic and social policies of the Assad dynasty which eventually led to the 2011 revolution.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Syria Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Arab world High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Socialism Mid‑importance

	Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

Politics High‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Index 1, 2

This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by when more than 8 sections are present.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Human rights in Syria#Detention Centres|dungeons]]

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Saleh Abdullah Bashar.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:38, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

is he a politician???

Why is this dictator even called "politician"? Was he elected? Was the election free and fair? Dear wikipedia, why don't you refer hitler, stalin or mao as a "politician"? I mean the "d-word" is so rude... 92.249.214.251 (talk) 13:03, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

his dad was made leader by a military coup and since bashar came to power if you talked ONE WORD bad about him, your children will get poisoned and you will never see their face again, and you would be killed or forced in the army. 2001:1970:55E8:7F00:60F6:D4AD:9672:10DE (talk) 19:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These are the opening sentence of the Wikipedia articles on Hitler, Stalin and Mao:

"Adolf Hitler (German: [ˈaːdɔlf ˈhɪtlɐ] ; 20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945) was an Austrian-born German politician..."

Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili; 18 December [O.S. 6 December] 1878 – 5 March 1953) was a Soviet politician..."

Mao Zedong (26 December 1893 – 9 September 1976) was a Chinese politician..."

What's your point? DeCausa (talk) 20:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Surname?

What to call this man - I had assumed that his surname would be "al-Assad", but many others seem to disagree with me.

al-Assad is used here (but mostly in the citations) - -

"Al-Assad: Enemies of Syria 'will go to hell'". CNN.
...President al-Assad gave...
Al-Assad family
"Throughout the speech, al-Assad remained faithful..."
...loyal to the al-Assad family.

Assad is frequently used throughout this article - - -

The Assad regime...
...after Assad assumed power...
...elite of the Assad family...
...the Assad government...

President Assad has a few entries (but no President al-Assad) - - -

President Assad also...
...President Assad step aside...
President Assad also told...

A few places use the whole name, Bashar al-Assad - - -

..Bashar al-Assad's core support...
Bashar al-Assad declared...
Bashar al-Assad held a meeting...

Then there is the naked Bashar contingent - - -

Bashar graduated...
Bashar later stated...
Bashar had few...
...which was Bashar's age...

So, what should this guy be called -

Bashar al-Assad;
al-Assad;
President al-Assad;
President Assad;
but surely not Bashar?

Is there a consensus?

Thank you for your time, Wordreader (talk) 20:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His father’s name is Hafez.

Bashar’s father’s name is “Hafez” and not “Hafiz” as is printed on this site 2A02:AA7:4103:8767:50EE:4E1:FC17:3FFB (talk) 10:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Responsible for 90% of deaths

this is conjecture and unverifiable. A UK based source when the UK and its allies supporters the anti assad movement. Can't be relied upon and is an unnecessary addition of information..I'm sure the number of deaths alone is sufficient rather than attributing blame(which is unverifiable) 2A04:4A43:4C3F:D0F7:0:0:29D8:CD07 (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree, but unfortunately sources considered reliable by Wikipedia parrot the SNHR's figures so we have no point but to operate within those constraints.

Their methodology is flawed:

https://snhr.org/public_html/wp-content/pdf/english/SNHR_Methodology_en.pdf

Cases of uncertainty in deciding whether an individual is classified as a civilian or a combatant: In case of the absence of conclusive evidence of the victim’s status and of resulting uncertainty over his/her classification as a civilian or a combatant, we register him/her as a civilian.

Skornezy (talk) 02:48, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fear not, you two. Now that the government has been overthrown, and secret regime archives will be opened, we will be able to know the full extent of horrors the Assad regime has committed over 13 years - from their own data. --Dynamo128 (talk) 01:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word "dictator" in the lead

I noticed that the word "dictator" to characterize him is often placed in the introduction and then removed. What consensus could we have? Should we put it or is it not necessary? FaChol (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no doubt that he is a dictator, this is not the question I am asking. I am asking if a consensus can be reached on whether or not to write that in the introduction. For example, Putin is characterized as a "Russian politician and former intelligence officer". Should the word "dictator" also be included on his article? FaChol (talk) 23:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be interested to hear people's arguments for inclusion, otherwise I think it should be removed. We don't tend to use "dictator" elsewhere in wikivoice, and it seems a recent introduction (or vandalism) to this article. We don't describe Hafez al-Assad as a dictator. GhostOfNoMan 22:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And the lead already mentions the characterisation of Assad, by academics and others, as a dictator, or of his regime as authoritarian. That's preferable to "politician and dictator" as the opening sentence. GhostOfNoMan 22:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I say no because pages for multiple other dictators do not have the word "dictator" in the introduction. See Putin, Saddam, Gaddafi, Castro, etc. Setarip (talk) 18:26, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The wiki pages Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping does not use the word 'dictator' as the introductory of a person must be adhered to the official status not the description so the word 'dictator' should not be used in the Assad page. Mhaot (talk) 08:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Murderer category

Should we keep the Category of Mass murderers for him? 2600:100C:A218:9A7B:BC5E:E0AD:C8F9:553 (talk) 15:31, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

End of term ?

Haven't seen a source saying he is "officially" overthrown. There is still, somehow, a state. Saddam Hussein's wiki page lists his departure as president as April 9th, the day Baghdad was captured/liberated. Damascus hasn't been captured yet. Remikipedia (talk) 02:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone is spamming 167.142.48.84 (talk) 02:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. That December 8, 2024 end of term needs a citation or it needs to be reverted. Mosi Nuru (talk) 02:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As of half an hour ago Damascus has been captured. 128.114.255.198 (talk) 03:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great, provide a citation. Mosi Nuru (talk) 03:09, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mosi Nuru

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/syria-homs-latest-damascus-rebels-1.7404449

https://apnews.com/article/syria-assad-sweida-daraa-homs-hts-qatar-7f65823bbf0a7bd331109e8dff419430

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdd2r2191o

https://aje.io/pq3n3i?update=3371087 SatelliteOrbit (talk | contribs) 03:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/ OnHereAlot (talk) 03:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From a cursory glance at these sources, I don't see anything saying his term has ended or he's resigned. The fact that a head of state travels outside the city limits of his/her capital city does not mean he/she ceases to be head of state. Chetsford (talk) 03:39, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://x.com/Alhadath_Brk/status/1865587913817305454

both rebel and govt military leaders are declaring the end of the regime. might not be enough to edit yet, but we definitely don't need to wait for Assad himself to say something or "resign" when he's been deposed. 71.183.73.183 (talk) 03:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mosi Nuru

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/syrian-insurgents-suburbs-of-damascus/

https://abcnews.go.com/International/syrian-rebels-claimed-4-cities-24-hours-now/story?id=116562929

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/07/syria-rebels-have-reached-damascus-suburbs-insurgent-commander-says

consensus among sources that assad is out of syria, syrian govt denies assad has fled syria, and that Damascus is in rebel hands SatelliteOrbit (talk | contribs) 03:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Syrian prime minister went on a speech to announce that the regime is officially downhttps://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/syria-civil-war-damascus/card/syrian-prime-minister-ready-to-cooperate-gG7okAui3MTS7vJA6oHR RayCh716 (talk) 03:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

I have applied a six-hour WP:BLUELOCK to this article due to several disruptive edits and the apparent occurrence of off-WP coordination in furtherance of that disruption. During this period, non-EC editors can request edits using WP:EDITREQUEST. Chetsford (talk) 03:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

what evidence do you have of this? Cannolorosa (talk) 03:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are so many edits happening because of the situation in Syria, I know someone wrote his plane had crashed which has not been reported. TheFellaVB (talk) 03:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Bashar al-Assad. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Change

... who served as the president of Syria since 2000

to:

... who has served as the president of Syria since 2000

TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 03:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should we change this to past tense

It seems that the Syrian regime has fallen, and there are reports that he has left the nation. Do you think we should change this to past tense. IdahoanLover (talk) 03:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/

By all accounts the regime has ended. This would be most appropriate. 2806:290:881F:A7AC:E9FA:B5D:B0DD:3810 (talk) 03:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He died

Plane shot down by Israelis 67.85.200.219 (talk) 03:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No evidence to suggest this OnHereAlot (talk) 03:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

theres a few, although its light. Not sure about isreali forces its more likely opposition forces as it was in their air space. A plane from damascus was shot down, it is government owned. 2600:1700:F0:3DF0:3A3E:F11A:C85B:B70 (talk) 03:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even though it could be possible that he was on that plane, there is no evidence that the Israelis shot him down. LycheeDragonLoverBACKUP (talk) 03:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the source of this information? FaChol (talk) 04:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assad's Possible Death

A plane from damascus was shot down near lebanon, its said to be assad. Look into this

https://x.com/aja_syria/status/1865593628544155774 2600:1700:F0:3DF0:3A3E:F11A:C85B:B70 (talk) 03:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Until reliable sources report on this, we can't add it to the article. Gelasin (talk) 03:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this could maybe work as a source for now: https://slguardian.org/breaking-plane-allegedly-carrying-syrian-president-assad-crashes/

Sri Lanka Guardian seems decently reliable. Just phrase as "there were unconfirmed reports of a plane carrying Assad being shot down in Syrian airspace" or something? Diogenes Redivivus (talk) 05:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Intro update

At the very least the intro should describe the collapse of his rule over the last two weeks more than just saying rebels launched an offensive. john k (talk) 03:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Agreed, but a lot of stuff has been developing very quickly in this situation. I don’t think it will be long until we have proper sources. LycheeDragonLoverBACKUP (talk) 03:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

I have added a WP:SILVERLOCK to the Talk page for this article for six hours due to a fast-moving series of violations of our WP:BLP policy by IP editors. The BLP policy applies equally to Talk pages as mainspace. Any other Administrator should feel free to lift this protection at any time if they feel it's no longer necessary, or was never necessary in the first place. Chetsford (talk) 03:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Should we make an article on the remnants of the Ba'ath Syria, and the remaining army in Latakia? PopularGames (talk) 04:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lede should be changed

He's been deposed. He has vanished. So, can he really be called Field Marshall still?Dogru144 (talk) 04:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He left syria probably by fleeing

https://apnews.com/article/syria-assad-sweida-daraa-homs-hts-qatar-7f65823bbf0a7bd331109e8dff419430 Wikiwaki6969 (talk) 05:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add new section

add section of bashar al assad regime ending. He has fleed from syria facing rebels today. Rebels was for 11 days. After 11 days. Al assad has fleed to Iraq today. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/ Wikiwaki6969 (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. The PM declared ready to hand reins of government. This page currently is totally obsolete. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/syrian-troops-withdraw-south-country-rush-defend-homs-116552588 Dogru144 (talk) 05:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 212: / Line 212: @@
 add section of bashar al assad regime ending. He has fleed from syria facing rebels today. Rebels was for 11 days. After 11 days. Al assad has fleed to Iraq today.
 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/ [[User:Wikiwaki6969|Wikiwaki6969]] ([[User talk:Wikiwaki6969|talk]]) 05:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
+:Ditto. The PM declared ready to hand reins of government. This page currently is totally obsolete. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/syrian-troops-withdraw-south-country-rush-defend-homs-116552588 [[User:Dogru144|Dogru144]] ([[User talk:Dogru144|talk]]) 05:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)