Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jhala dynasty

Jhala dynasty

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Jhala dynasty (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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This article is another installment of a WP:WALLEDGARDEN on the Jhala family created by a now-blocked sockmaster. (See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harpal Dev Makwana for an example of a deleted article in this set and Jhala (clan) for an appropriately sourced version not created by a sockmaster. The core sources for these articles are books of purported genealogy published by Jhala family descendants. This article takes a legendary genealogy and launders the sources to present it as history:

The first set of sources are the unreliable ones:

• Genealogy, Archive, Image: Interpreting Dynastic History in Western India is edited by two Jhala family members, including one who presents himself as heir and descendent of Harpal Dev and the current head of the so-called "dynasty." It includes fantastic stories from the vahi (legendary geneaologies of high-caste Indian families), for example one figure defeating a ghost in battle and marrying a goddess who supernaturally rescues their children from an elephant.
• Ulian's Rajput is a self-published book that repeats and embellishes the same rather fantastic legends.
• Kumarapala-prabandha appears to be mostly a repetition of legends
• This book is self-published through vanity press Notion Press.

Meanwhile, the independent sources do not present any of this legendary genealogy.

• Ramusack's The Indian Princes and Their States has a single WP:TRIVIALMENTION of the Jhalas (page 73)
• Naravane's The Rajputs of Rajputana has a single paragraph describing the Jhalas as a "minor clan."
• Singhji's The Rajputs of Saurashtra discusses the Jhala Rajputs but says of the earlier stories, "Bardic tales about their migrations from the Himalayan region to Sindh seem to contain little truth."

Additional sources include WP:RAJ-era surveys of questionable reliability and WP:TRIVIALMENTIONS in a gazetteer.

In short, what WP:SIGCOV we have on the Jhala dynasty includes legend repeated by WP:SPS and WP:COI sources. The independent coverage, such as it is, does not establish facts about this dynasty as presented in the article. With an adequately sourced article on the Jhala (clan) I think the best approach to this compromised article is WP:TNT. Bottom line: Fails WP:V and WP:GNG for lack of SIGCOV in independent, reliable, secondary sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 05:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History and India. Dclemens1971 (talk) 05:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Keep. Looking at the article page, it does not seem to contain any far-fetched claims except the Origin section which should be renamed to 'Origin legend' or clarified that it is a traditional legend.

Also, the argument for unreliabity of the source Genealogy, Archive, Image: Interpreting Dynastic History in Western India being that the co-author is a Jhala doesn't seem valid considering that there are probably a million of Jhala people and shouldn't make them ineligible to write on the subject. Both the authors are also scholars in anthropolgy with Jhala having served as the Professor of Anthropology at Temple University as per the linked press release.

I do believe more context can be added regarding the tradtional sources the authors have used. But deleting the article would be an extreme step. The subject is very much notable. Many later kingdoms, states and principalities claimed descent from the members of this dynasty. Thank you. Krayon95 (talk) 09:16, 29 September 2024 (UTC)