Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 5: Difference between revisions

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June 5

NEW NOMINATIONS

Nominator's rationale: West Asia and the Middle East largely overlap, so we do not need both categories. We already have categories for South Asia, Central Asia, East Asia, and Southeast Asia. Therefore, it makes more sense to keep the West Asia category and eliminate the "Middle East" category. This would align better with the existing geographic categorization. Aldij (talk) 08:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American promotions teams and stables

Propose renaming Category:American promotions teams and stables to Category:American professional wrestling teams and stables by promotion

Nominator's rationale: Current title looks a little odd in my opinion. ★Trekker (talk) 07:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ancient culture of Pakistan

Propose deleting Category:Ancient culture of Pakistan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete, no other modern countries have a category like this, and the two articles are also quite unconnected. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unlike such categories as Category:Prehistoric Pakistan, this is anachronistic on principle. We categorize ancient culture by culture or region, not by modern-day countries. Neither article even belongs — one article is a historical era, and the other is a site dated to the early modern period. They are already in other subcategories of the applicable parents. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 06:49, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete, given that we've also got Category:Ancient Indian culture but no Ancient Indian culture or Ancient culture of India, even if there is an WP:UNSOURCED Outline of ancient India#Culture in ancient India and a Music in ancient India. If we were to broaden the scope to Indian subcontinent, as Ancient scripts of the Indian subcontinent does, for example, this could reasonably included "ancient Pakistan" without too narrowly referring to "India", suggesting we only mean the territory of the modern Republic of India, but "sneakily" including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh etc. in that definition. Science and technology in ancient India redirects to History of science and technology on the Indian subcontinent, so I'm not the first to suggest such a broadening. Then again, that has to be discussed largely within the article space before the category space can follow suit. NLeeuw (talk) 13:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
[insert joke about space suits here]. NLeeuw (talk) 13:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Violence in Palestine (region)

Propose deleting Category:Violence in Palestine (region) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: There's another category created before. See Category:Violence in the Palestinian territories. -- Mhhossein ^talk 06:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Palestine (region) is not the same as the Palestinian territories. The Palestinian territories consist of only two parts of the Palestine region: the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. --Aldij (talk) 06:55, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Hinglaj Mata

Propose merging Category:Hinglaj Mata to Category:Spiritual and religious images

Nominator's rationale: merge, the category only contains a single image. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge The Hinglaj Mata Temple doesn't have any scope for a topic category. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 06:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Added relevant article pages to the category-the main temple and another a fort. Krayon95 (talk) 06:49, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Hinglajgarh related to Hinglaj Mata Temple? –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 09:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the article itself, the fort is either named or developed after a temple of the said goddess. Krayon95 (talk) 19:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Romans from Africa

Propose renaming Category:Romans from Africa to Category:Roman-era African people
Propose renaming Category:Ancient Romans by province to Category:Roman-era people by province

Nominator's rationale: rename, many of these people were not Romans. Aligning this with e.g. Category:Roman-era people by ethnicity. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question By "(Ancient) Romans", do we mean "Roman citizens", or is it just anyone who is culturally / ethnolinguistically Roman or Romanised? As far as I can tell, Category:Ancient Romans is not in the Category:People by nationality tree, but through Category:Italic peoples it is in the Category:People by ethnicity tree. Main article Roman Africans defines them as the ancient populations of Roman North Africa that had a Romanized culture, some of whom spoke their own variety of Latin as a result. If there are non-Romans in this category, that means they should either be Purged, or we should Split this category into Roman Africans and Roman-era non-Roman Africans or something. NLeeuw (talk) 13:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: By analogy to Category:Arabs in the Roman Empire, we could have Category:Africans in the Roman Empire, and Roman Africans and non-Roman Africans would be the two subsets of that. Basically, everyone who was an African but not a Roman could be put directly into that category, and everyone who was a "Roman African" could be put in the "Roman Africans" subcategory. NLeeuw (talk) 13:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ondrej Nepela Memorial templates

Propose deleting Category:Ondrej Nepela Memorial templates (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This is exactly the same as a recently deleted category from Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_May_27#Category:Nepela_Memorial, except that category was created in April 2024 and this one was created in 2008, and this category also includes only one template instead of four. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 04:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Bgsu98 (talk · contribs) removed the only member, Template:Nepela Memorial, without explanation. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 16:03, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Yes, this category is empty now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Amateur sport in Kazakhstan

Propose deleting Category:Amateur sport in Kazakhstan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:Football in the regions of Kazakhstan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:Football in Kazakhstan by region (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose merging Category:Football clubs in Kazakhstan by region to Category:Football clubs in Kazakhstan

Nominator's rationale: Numerous redundant category layers for a single region Mason (talk) 02:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, but honestly I would go two steps further and also nominate Category:Football clubs in Akmola Region and Category:Football clubs in Kokshetau for deletion (no need to merge, the two articles are already in the parents trees anyway). Marcocapelle (talk) 04:26, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Mosques in Libya by city

Propose merging Category:Mosques in Libya by city to Category:Mosques by city and Category:Mosques in Libya

Nominator's rationale: Dual Upmerge for now. There's no need to have a redundant category like this. Mason (talk) 02:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Upmerge for now without prejudice per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Welsh-speaking writers

Propose merging Category:Welsh-speaking writers to Category:Welsh-language writers

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories. I didn't speedy this because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. Mason (talk) 01:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just delete, assuming the header is right about these are English-language writers. Being able to speak Welsh but not write in Welsh is a non-defining characteristic of a writer. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete What langauge one speaks is almost always a trivial characteristic. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 06:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. What language one speaks is not always a trivial characteristic, and certainly not when it's a minority language; that is a monoglot's view. However, I accept that there are few writers who speak but don't write in Welsh. What would make sense is to ensure that any entry that is in both categories is present in [[Category:Anglo-Welsh writers]], which is the normal way of describing Welsh writers who do not speak/write in Welsh. The latter are, in a sense, the odd ones out. Please make sure this is listed at the relevant Wikiprojects. Deb (talk) 07:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Geography by former colony

Propose merging Category:Geography by former colony to Category:Geography by former country

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. It's not necessary to distinguish this level of granularity of what kind of former entity it is (colony versus former country) Mason (talk) 00:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge, or possibly delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. One could argue that a former colony is not a former country, it still exists but became meanwhile independent. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Marcocapelle. The Dutch East Indies were never a "country" in the sense of an autonomous (let alone sovereign) state, unlike Suriname (Kingdom of the Netherlands) and the Netherlands Antilles from 1954 to 1975/2010. (These might be compared to the status of the United States of Indonesia / Republik Indonesia within the 1949–1956 Netherlands-Indonesia Union, which, other than a shared monarch, granted essentially full sovereignty to both countries; but that's after the DEI were already dissolved in 1949). Merging would place the DEI in a category where it doesn't belong. Current parents Category:Dutch East Indies and Category:Geography of Indonesia suffice. NLeeuw (talk) 13:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Nederlandse Leeuw. --Aldij (talk) 15:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Imperial Roman admirals

Propose merging Category:Imperial Roman admirals to Category:Ancient Roman admirals
Propose merging Category:Imperial Roman generals to Category:Ancient Roman generals
Propose merging Category:Imperial Roman soldiers to Category:Ancient Roman soldiers
Propose deleting Category:Imperial Roman military personnel (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Merge/Purge (the bzyatine category). There's no need to create this parent category of Imperial Roman Foo. It just serves to isolate Byzantine and Ancient Roman child categories from other former nations. See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_September_27#Category:Romans_who_received_the_grass_crown for a recent conversation about naming of Roman categories. Mason (talk) 00:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not strongly against this. Just as Category:Roman consuls is split into Category:Imperial Roman consuls and Category:Roman Republican consuls, so are the categories for military figures. If those categories need to be merged, the categories for consuls should be merged as well. If you feel the need to merge the consul categories as well, I won't argue with you any further. Kirschtaria (talk) 02:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not against it as a matter of principle, just noting that the problem (if it is a problem) is far more widespread, e.g. Category:People from the Roman Empire and Category:Military of the Roman Empire. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. The "Ancient" part clarifies that the scope is until 476 CE, and that anything "Imperial Roman" after that is better understood as "Byzantine". NLeeuw (talk) 13:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 ::'''Keep''' Added relevant article pages to the category-the main temple and another a fort.  [[User:Krayon95|Krayon95]] ([[User talk:Krayon95|talk]]) 06:49, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 :::Why is [[Hinglajgarh]] related to [[Hinglaj Mata Temple]]? –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 09:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
+::::From the article itself, the fort is either named or developed after a temple of the said goddess. [[User:Krayon95|Krayon95]] ([[User talk:Krayon95|talk]]) 19:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 ==== Category:Romans from Africa ====
 :* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Romans from Africa]] to [[:Category:Roman-era African people]]