Talk:CANZUK

Proposed merge with CANZUK International

Articles cover same content, CI International exists to promote the CANZUK idea. There is little distinction between the two, that does not merit the content fork. TheMagikCow (T) (C) 15:58, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Surely it is more relevant to have a page talking about the concept rather than advocate groups? The concept of Canzuk is something that has been discussed by a range of writers, philosophers, lawyers (in academic journals), columnists, politicians and historians. I would be open to a merger, but the heading and substance of the page should be concept-based and not advocate-group based. People searching for the term would be misinformed if taken to a specific group when they are trying to find out what the concept of 'Canzuk' is. Pixisu1 (T) (C) 13:50, 25 June 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.56.108 (talk)

Agreed, although there is much overlap, the two pages are separate. "CANZUK" is an idea, while "CANZUK International" is the main organisation advocating the idea - similarly to Conservatism and the Conservative Party (United Kingdom). Both should remain as separate pages to reflect the difference between idea and organisation.--Graham kent (talk) 01:13, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

I would support this merge. There is considerable overlap and duplication between these pages; commentaries on 'CANZUK' don't necessarily distinguish between the concept and the organisation. Perhaps the other page should be merged into this one? Robofish (talk) 15:51, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

I am against such a merge. CANZUK is an idea, CANZUK International is a political organisation attempting to lobby the idea into existence. Here's an exmaple: Would you merge Stonewall & LGBT Rights in the UK? I wouldn't as they're separate entities, one is an idea (that we should have LGBT rights) and the other is a political organisation attempting to lobby for that idea. What if another political organisation comes into existence that supports the idea of CANZUK? By merging CANZUK & CANZUK international we are suggesting that one political organisation has claim over an idea. Friendly Engineer (talk) 18:33, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

This is a 5-year-old thread, and the proposed merge seems to have failed. Meters (talk) 23:24, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

This proposal was a mess. It was proposed on this page in June 2017 by user:TheMagikCow [1], but it was never proposed on CANZUK International. The proposal notice was removed in October 2017 by user:ErdbärMitSahne [2] without noting the removal in this thread or in the edit summary. If someone wants to pursue this merger a proper merge proposal should be opened, but I don't think they should be merged. Meters (talk) 23:40, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Statistics table

Perhaps in the statistics table you could have statistics of other countries or entities for comparison, for example, the US, the EU without the UK, China, etc. Any thoughts? It would put it into greater perspective. Chocoholic2017 (talk) 00:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Meaning of Term

In current usage the term CANZUK is being used universally to refer to a proposed free movement zone based on the Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement. As such the first paragraph of the page seems to be out of date. Later on, the page uses the term correctly. Rather than simply change the opening paragraph I'm raising it here. Robert Brockway (talk) 13:16, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Pan-nationalism category

Should this be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:6E00:1FC7:B801:DD2C:EA81:B524:EAF6 (talk) 10:32, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

I would leave it out for the time-being because there is nothing in this article or the pan-nationalism that connects CANZUK with pan-nationalism. TFD (talk) 15:09, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

It's clearly a pan-nationalist movement from a demographic that merely refuses to consider themselves an ethnolinguistic group (English-speaking white people, or just more generally English-speaking people regardless of race), even though practically everyone else around the world groups them this way.

The fact they have regional subgroups is irrelevant, every single ethnic group on the planet has subgroups and regional variances in accents and dialects and cultural norms. 2.99.70.19 (talk) 12:20, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Opposing views

Albeit that there are criticisms of CANZUK, these surely require some qualification. CANZUK nations are indeed "majority white", but all are amongst the most culturally and ethnically diverse in the developed world - and vastly more so than the majority of EU nations, which many CANZUK critics seem to prefer. It is, of course, true that the CANZUK offer has not been extended to the rest of the British Commonwealth, but this is for the obvious reason that the CANZUK nations have similar living standards, and would therefore be spared massive demographic shifts in the event of free movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.108.92.22 (talk) 14:30, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

English-speaking rates are also vastly different in these other Commonwealth countries. The actual rates of fluent English-speaking in places like Sub-Saharan Africa and India are actually shockingly low compared to the common perception.

Sure, large numbers of people in some of these countries might be able to communicate with a very rudimentary and broken grasp of English, but they are simply nowhere close to being like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States where English is the native language of the vast majority of the population.

Most people in the other countries speak indigenous tribal languages as their first language, and often other local languages as a second or third language before English.

Not to mention huge percentages of all these countries have absolutely no fluency in English whatsoever. They are not comparable to the core English-speaking countries whatsoever, and that's not even getting into often vast cultural differences. 2.99.70.19 (talk) 12:27, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Brexit

After brexit has happened, will we see significant info and details as to when CANZUK would appear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiActic (talk • contribs) 05:47, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I very much doubt it, though some have proposed a “Coalition of the Sane” consisting of Canada, New Zealand and an independent Scotland. Mr Larrington (talk) 13:40, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

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Economic Comparison

The "Total land area (mi)" column is redundant and clutters up the table. No other table in this article gives area in square miles. It is good practice to stick to SI units. I suggest that it be removed. Mark63424 (talk) 14:02, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

@Mark63424: Agreed. In fact, why do we list the areas at all in a table on economics? We compare the sizes in the "Country comparison" table, so why repeat the information? I think both columns should go.

New talk page posts go at the bottom of the page, which may be why no-one noticed this and responded before now. I have moved it to where it should have been chronologically. Meters (talk) 16:48, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I'll give this a few days, and if there are no objections I'll remove both columns. Meters (talk) 16:52, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

done Meters (talk) 20:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Official names

I've removed the "official names" row from the country comparison table. This was a relatively recent addition and it seems to serve no useful purpose. We don't use them in this article, and one of them has been obsolete for 70 years. Meters (talk) 03:31, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Excellent idea. That should stop any unnecessary edit disputes in that area. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 06:37, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

British heritage

I'm concerned about these edits which says the movement is tied to British heritage. The source, makes no reference to that. The editor also goes out of the their way to say :

• NPOV. should be made clear how polarised this is. CANZUK is generally favored by white conservatives from the four countries, and opposed by both white and nonwhite progressives. A brief summary of why is given, backed up by ample quotes and a study co-authored by a scholar from the university of Cambridge

However they don't say what the NPOV issue is. The study from Cambridge is never cited. I'm probably going to edit this, but thought it was worth raising here to err on the side of caution. This page might need protections. Zaurus (talk) 15:03, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Just clean it up as you see fit. No need for protection because of one IP's edits 10 weeks ago. Meters (talk) 19:38, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Opposing views

I just deleted a link to an FT article which criticized a Canada-UK trade proposal and discussed possible ramifications to NAFTA. Although trade is a component of CANZUK, it's a stretch to say this is a criticism of the CANZUK proposal. Particularly considering that EU-style-freedom of movement between similar economies is one of the key ideas in CANZUK, the quote "distance and the size of trading partners matter more than historical links in determining trading relationships between countries" is quite irrelevant as in Vancouver, I can fly to London or Sydney in less time than many parts of my own country. If we're talking milk, I get it, but we're not. Let's not conflate the two issues. Actually, I believe that possibly all of the citations in this section are similarly related to the greater topic of post-Brexit trade. I think it might be worth going through them and deleting any that don't concern themselves with CANZUK. Zaurus (talk) 19:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Anglo-Saxon Citizenship

This is interesting trivia, but seems like a stretch to say it's related to CANZUK. Zaurus (talk) 15:30, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Agree. The source is "Anglo-Saxon Citizenship" (1897). A. V. Dicey proposed that British subjects be recognized as American citizens in the U.S., while Americans would be recognized as British subjects throughout the British Empire. The term Anglo-Saxon refers to the unity of the British Empire and the U.S. in language, not ethnicity.

The paragraph is faulty OR and I will remove it. While reciprocal nationality between the U.S. and British Empire could be seen as a precursor to CANZUK, we would need a reliable source that says that.

TFD (talk) 20:45, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Liberal Party of Canada endorses CANZUK free movement

At the May 2023 National Liberal Convention in Ottawa, the Liberal Party of Canada voted to adopt CANZUK free movement as official party policy.[3] [4]. As this is a key policy in the CANZUK proposal, this endorsement is relevant to mention in this article. Hihellowhatsup (talk) 14:02, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

The Liberal Party endorsement should be included in this article. It seems unclear to me why the edits mentioning that were reverted. Freedom of movement is necessary to any CANZUK proposal. Something focused on foreign policy or military cooperation would already be covered by AUKUS or the Five Eyes. UAmtoj (talk) 14:50, 16 May 2023 (UTC)