Talk:Terminator (character)

Suckage

This article totally sucks- it's packed with information, granted, but it's also packed with a whole load of redundancy. It repeats itself so many times that after reading it I felt like I had been on some kind of incredibly-repetitive repeating thing. Whoever wrote this should've gone to school. =( - Khol

Yeah, there are some problems with it. BTW, the writers have said that the Sgt Candy scene was deleted mostly because of time, and because it would've seemed out of place tonewise in the rest of the movie. That certainly doesn't make it any less canon though... it was on the DVD, after all.

Cyborg or Not?

from dictionary.com

cy·borg /ˈsaɪbɔrg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahy-bawrg] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun

A person whose physiological functioning is aided by or dependent upon a mechanical or electronic device.

Well, first of all, I wouldn't consider it a person, the organic systems are meant as a disguise, and his brain isn't organic at all.

Second, he is aided and has biological systems, but he is not dependant upon them, as we've seen in the original Terminator he can function even when all his organic systems are completely destroyed. Would he be just a robot in disguise?

Unclarified sources

I agree with Christopher Thomas, below, regarding unclarified sources for this article. Specifically, I take issue with the entire "Differences between the 800 and 850 series" section, because I contend that there is no such thing as a "T-850". Stan Winston Studios, which designed the terminators for the films, confirmed this to me via e-mail when I wrote to them asking their opinion. Their response (direct quote): "I'm not sure where the T-850 came from. As far as I know, Arnold's Terminator has and always will be the T-800, model 101. Now, the robot Terminators in T3 are T1's and Kristana Loken is the TX. I hope that clears it up..." While the term "T-850" is somewhat widespread on the internet, even extending to T3-related merchandise such as action figures, its origin is, to my mind, something of a mystery. --Rich 07:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Or, maybe . . . just maybe . . . Stan Winston Studios has no connection with the people who developed the story for the movie. I do agree, though. The article needs cleanup, but the T-850 debate doesn't need to be part of it.King Zeal 13:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The designation is on the bonus DVD, if you check the Skynet files. Schrodinger82 05:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'm not a Terminator Junkie, but I know the differences between a T-800 and a T-850 when I see them. For instance, the T-850 in T3 displayed a level of intelegence far beyond what the other two did in t1 and t2 (different director maybe, but it was officially clarified when the video game T3 the Redemption was made). And one other thing I found that was interestingly different between the two is the way their eyes are built and how they focus, the Terminator in the first film showed that it could actually dialate it's eyes and the T3 terminator's eyes lit up when it focused or "Widened" it's eyesight (when he says "you are terminated" and shoves the fusion cell down the T-X's mouth). And that the Eyes of the T-800 appeared smooth, while the the one it T3 had some kind of texture in a grating formation on them like a 1950 car's headlights. One last thing too is, the T-850's damaged powercells explode after a time to exposed atmosphere, so why didn't the terminators in the earlier movies explode when atmosphere hit their power cells? a Steak was driven through one of the models, and the other one was crushed, thus proper atmosphere was able to get to both the powercells, sure they put on a light show, but not explode. Same models? Maybe, but I don't think so. Cyberdyne Systems built Skynet classified them as T800's, maybe the CRS Version classified them T-850's. I think the Article should be left alone. Victis_Omega 10:29, 11 August 2006

While all of those are really good points (the different power cells especially) alot of people are unhappy because it uses info from several fansites (eterminator and goingfaster/term2029) which, though excellently done, are still fansites and therefore of dodgy reliability.SMegatron 10:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

wounds healing?

In T2 doesn't the Terminator specifically say that his bullet wounds will heal in time?

Seconded. Most of the material in that section doesn't seem to come from the movies; its source needs to be clarified. --Christopher Thomas 18:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

He does indeed say this in Terminator 2 when Sarah is pulling the bullets out of his back, wouldn't he need to eat to get material to make new cells, which he would also need a respiratory and digestive system? Also, when he cuts all the skin off his arm in front of Dyson in Terminator 2, he'd never be able to put it back on The snare 04:45, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

T-1

Did anyone else notice the T-1 models in T3? Should they be included? Bihal 11:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

We?

Anyone else find the first person plural `we' annoying to read? I also agree with the below poster that this sounds like it was taken from an overzelous fan site. CGP 18:55, 2004 Jun 21 (UTC)

Copyvio?

This reads very much as though it's been ripped off from somewhere... — OwenBlacker 15:00, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)

Title

I moved this from T-800 (fictional character) to T-800, as there was no page at T-800, and wikipedia naming convention is to have the simplest possible article title. Boffy b 11:08, 2005 Jan 14 (UTC)

Edits

I took it upon myself to edit some of the content here so it makes a little more sence. specifically I removed the part about T-1000 beind discontinued due to it's succeptibility to temperatures, and being discontinued in general. Skynet could't discontinue it based on thermal trouble simply because it has no way to know how and why T-1000 failed. Also, saying it was discontinued due to that would make as much sence as discontinuing T-800 due to it being succeptible to an 80-ton hydraulic press and pipebombs. Another major edit is removal of the part about T-X being an army general figure, because aside from unintelligent fan speculation there is nothing to support that. Also I would love for someone to explain how it could control modern vehicles, specifically shfting gears and turning the wheel by using nanotech. It seems that the technological aspect of the movie haven't really gotten much thought. tani 06.07.05

The control of modern machines by the T-X isn't all that difficult to understand. Any vehicle with power steering and cruise control would lend itself rather easily to modification and manipulation by devices such as nanites. As for the actual turning of the steering wheel, and physical movement of the gear shift, that can probably be put down to making certain that the movie going audience really understood what was going on. Most of them would have gotten it anyway, but sometimes people manage to miss the obvious.24.69.167.159 03:43, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Cyberdyne article updated

Based on my understanding of the timelines of the three Terminator movies, I rewrote most of the Cyberdyne Systems Corporation article today in order to clean up its redundancies and remove irrelevant bits, and especially to take care of some inaccuracies relating to the company's role in the creation of Skynet and the creation of the Terminators. Please take a look at it and see if it you think it gets anything wrong. Thanks. — mjb 21:37, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Who designed the terminators?

Considering Reese refers to the Terminator in T1 as a "Cyberdyne Model 101" it's not hard to believe they were created before Skynet became sentient. Otherwise why would they be given a designation that make it sound as if they were a product of a human corporation?

Dunno. The "Sergeant Candy" deleted scene on the Terminator 3 DVD shows what appears to be T-800 endoskeletons under testing, indicating it is pre-Judgement Day. That said, pehaps Skynet just had an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" complex and just never bothered to change things.--SMegatron 13:48, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

On a side note, why does so much of the article appear to have been lifted from the old eterminator site?--SMegatron 13:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Anything from Terminator 3 is hardly cannon when you consider that both original films

were for the most part Cameron's concept and creation, and he had nothing to do with the 3d installment, so the whole "Sergeant Candy" thing is out. A cyberdine systems designation was likely used to make it coherent to the viewers, rather then have Reese spout a 20-digit numeric sequence. As an internal explanation, machines could simply use designations from factories that already existed at the time, to them series of words were probably just as good as numeric code. Tani unit 04:13, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

power of what now?

the same power as a miniature nuclear weapon.

that does not make any sense. You might as well say "power of a miniature supernova".

Missing Arm

At end of the second film, both new terminators and the surviving components from the first are destroyed in a vat of molten steel.

This seems to miss the fact that the arm of the reprogramed 101 T-800 (main T-800 from T2 movie) lost its arm inside the metal works in the movie (had it ripped off). The arm in questioned was never picked up and placed/dropped into the molten metal (on screen at least).

Is this worth updating on the page to reflect that? Ravend 04:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Why? Noone seems to care that in the original terminator both his legs were blown off and never made into the cyberdyne vault. The arm seems pretty irrelevant. Tani unit 00:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

if you listen to the commentary on the T2 extreme edition dvd or watch it in enhanced mode, they realize that the arm is still there, and in the official novelization, John goes back and gets the arm to throw it in. ColdFusion650 13:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Past tense and speculation

Scifi articles should be written in past tense, and personal speculation should also be avoided. 75.21.125.177 01:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Firearms

"and thus was rendered essentially immune to small arms fire (pistols, rifles, derringers, etc. although a shotgun actually had enough physical force to knock it down) " I don't know if this happened in the movies or not because it's been a while since i've seen it, but this of course isn't physically possible. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If a shotgun blasts knocks a terminator over, then an equal and opposite force would occur, knocking over the shooter. The shooter isn't knocked over, so therefore, a person (or a terminator) would not be knocked over, either.--Stevekl 04:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The article states knock "down", not "over". There are two instances where terminator was knocked down by quick sucession of shotgun blasts, mostly due to being knocked out physically and collapsing as a result. Besides, this whole physics thing is getting tired. A shot from .50 cal Barrett can pierce light armor and pullverize cinderblocks, but it doesn't mean that recoil will rip your shoulder off. Firearms are designed to absorb the impact from firing a projectile. Tani unit 00:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

people keep saying that the shooter would be knocked down to. that is not true. the momemtum (mass x velocity) exerted on the target and shooter would be the same. therefore, a difference in mass would greatly affect the velocity that each flew back at, to the point where friction makes them not move very much. and the firearm itself harnesses this momentum to kicked the slide back and eject the round, thus reducing the momentum imparted on the shooter. ColdFusion650 13:40, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Original research

This article reads like a bunch of original research. I may be wrong, and there may be canon sources for all of the information in the article, but if that's the case then they need to be cited. Wikipedia cannot contain speculation, however logical; it needs to have happened or been directly stated in the movies, books, etc or it needs to be removed. TomTheHand 21:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed all of the information not appearing in the movies or not cited as coming from a canon source. That is with the exception on the name T-800, which does not appear in any movie. Removing that would be a job that spanned multiple articles. ColdFusion650 22:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I made a few more removals of stuff that seemed to be original research or speculation. I think the article looks much better now. TomTheHand 22:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I also cleaned up the T-1000 and T-X articles. ColdFusion650 23:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

t-850

ok, where did the t-850 designation come from? i haven't seen the original movie in a long time, but i do know that in t2, he identifies himself as a cyberdyne systems model 101, and in t3 as a t-101. now, if the original says that he is a t-800, i can accept the fact that t3 just goofed on the designation (i saw t2 before the original, so i thought he was a t-101 myself for a while). but it never says in any movie that he is a t-850. now, it may seem that he has some differences with the power cell. we really can't tell from the movie, because we never see his power cell in the first two. if there is a difference, it could be because the first two were cyberdyne systems models, and the third one was a cyber research systems model. i'm just not understanding where t850 came from. can someone clarify? ColdFusion650 128.186.126.81 16:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

ok, i just saw the first one. reese does make mention of the 600 series. however, he identifies the terminator at as a cyberdyne systems model 101. no mention of a t-800 here either. so, let's recap. the terminator says that the arnold model is a cyberdyne systems model 101. so does judgment day. rise of the machines calls him a t-101. so where does the t-800 or t-850 name come from? did somebody just make this up? cause its not in the movies. ColdFusion650 68.1.89.194 17:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

can someone please explain where the name t-800 and the entire t-850 section came from? if not, it should be labeled as OR. ColdFusion650 21:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

The scripts and novelizations. 24.14.120.92 01:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

article name change

since no one has come up with a reference for the t-800 name, and i've already modified the article to eliminate it, i think it's time to rename it. perhaps it can be renamed to Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, although that seems long. maybe it can just be Terminator (character). i don't know. it just needs to be done. then t-800 should redirect and all occurrences of "t-800" in all articles should be changed accordingly. ColdFusion650 21:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, let's go for Cyberdyne Systems Model 101. I'll make the change in a couple of hours if nobody has objections. TomTheHand 19:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Fine with me. ColdFusion650 20:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Jeez, I started working on removing references, but there's just too much stuff. I removed some, and I fixed all the double redirects, which are the big problem. I found one thing that could be a problem with this rename. On the James Cameron page there's a quote: "I wanted someone who was extremely fast and agile. If the T-800 is a human Panzer tank, then the T-1000 is a Porsche." I guess it's non-canon since it's an interview and never found in a movie, though. TomTheHand 21:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's been over 3 weeks since my first request for a T-800 reference. If someone had something, they probably would have come forward by now. ColdFusion650 21:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Backup power cell

I've put the little thing about backup power back into the article. Toward the end of T2, the T-1000 drives a piece of rebar or something through the Model 101's power cell(s), and the 101's eyes go dark. A couple of minutes later there's a scene from the 101's eyes showing it boot up and access backup power. TomTheHand 17:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't say backup generator. It says alternate power source. The DVD commentary says that it's using heat sinks to harness the thermal energy from the very hot surroundings. So, still OR. If you want, you can say that it can find alternate sources of power. But the backup generator just isn't there. ColdFusion650 19:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, how about "If the powercell is depleted or damaged, the unit can access an alternate source of power that allows it to continue functioning for some time."? TomTheHand 19:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Fine with me. ColdFusion650 20:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Go back to T-800

The name T-800/T-850 came from the scripts and novelization. Model 101 is the SKIN type. T-800/850 is the endoskeleton model. Model 101 looks like Arnold, Model 108 looks like a different person. Change it back. Thanks. 24.14.120.92 02:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. What's the point of comparing the "Model 101" with the 600 series? Who says that there isn't a 101 Model T-600, T-1000, or T-X? I think that some of the editors of this page are taking the movie canon far too seriously. The toy lines, the novels, the comics, the scripts, and just about every other connection to the Terminator universe all call it the T-800. It needs to be changed back post haste. King Zeal 08:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, the Terminator in Kyle's flashback in the first movie was identified was Model 108 in the novelization, because it doesn't use the Arnold Schwarzenegger skin. 24.14.120.92 10:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Where were you people for the last three plus weeks? It would have been helpful if you had spoken up when I first requested a reference for the name. But no one answered. It's not like I posted four messages asking for it. You try to find out ahead of time, but nobody cares. You then act, and everyone gets upset. What is yall's problem? ColdFusion650 14:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't check the article 3 weeks ago. I can't predict events you know. That aside, the model of the endoskeleton is T-800 (T1, T2) and T-850 (T3) the skin tissue/appearance over the endoskeleton that looks like Arnold is Model 101. 24.14.120.92 22:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

And each series has a "T" name to them. T-1(T3) -----> T-600 (T1) ---> T-800 -> T-850 --> T-1000 -> T-X 24.14.120.92 22:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh and I forgot to mention, the T-850 is just an upgrade of T-800, not a completely new series model. It was upgraded to be more resistent to plasma attacks and to be able to fight stronger Terminators because the human resistance gained plasma rifles from fallen Terminators and they also have reprogrammed Terminators fighting for them. 24.14.120.92 23:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I have heard all of that information before. But where did it come from? No one has been able to answer that question. ColdFusion650 23:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Did you not read? Scripts and novelization of the movies that provide more detail because of its format. 24.14.120.92 01:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I vote to go back to T-800. This is like that episode of Heroes, when Nathan Petrelli's sons were shown. Their names weren't mentioned on the show, but the scripts and the credits clearly stated they were Simon and Monty. Just because it wasn't mentioned on the show, doesn't mean they're unnamed. Same with the T-800 name, the scripts, the novelization, the official merchandise all say that the endoskeleton model is T-800 and the human skin is Model 101. So this should go back to T-800. WyrmKing 21:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I didn't know that, and my request to find out went unanswered. But I didn't change it, and I'm not changing it back. TomTheHand is an administrator, and he did it. It's up to him. ColdFusion650 22:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, hey ;-) I don't like the sound of that. It's not up to me.

Now, the script to The Terminator doesn't mention T-800s. It does mention "600 series" Terminators which have rubber skin. In the script to Terminator 2 Arnold's just called "Terminator" and the T-1000 is called "T-1000." If you want this page to be called "T-800" you're going to need to adequately cite sources per WP:CITE. Just shouting "It's in the scripts and books!" isn't going to cut it. TomTheHand 04:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is the best I could do with limited sources. Here are the exact words fromt the official Terminator 2: Judgement Day movie script:

We realize now that the cop is a terminator too. We don't know the details yet, but let's call him the T-1000 (since that's what he is). A newer model than the one we've come to know so well (the 800 Series "Arnold"). This guy's a prototype... and he's got quite a few surprises.

Here is the link where I found the script: [[1]]

As I said, I understand that Wikipedia requires sources and all, but I still find this to be going a bit too far". King Zeal 06:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

That's the part I was talking about. They didn't mention it in the movies but behind the scenes they came up with "800" and it's what was used in the merchandise and the novelizations of the movie. 24.14.120.92 07:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Then why does the novelizations say he's a T-800? And why does the OFFICIAL merchandise calls him T-800? Then why does the novelization identify the other Terminator in Kyle Reese's dream as Model 108? If you wanna be techincal, then this article should be named "Terminator" since that's what Arnold was credited as in the the first three movies. Point is, the official merchandise calls the T1 and T2 models as T-800 with the skin type 101. While the T3 model is T-850 with the same skin type. And I agree with King Zeal, this is taking it too far. Official publication and merchandise already calls him a T-800/850 but still not good enough for you? Talk about crazy. WyrmKing 07:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm from Missouri. Show me. TomTheHand 13:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you just look at the various official merchandise? 24.14.120.92 13:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Where? Show me! You want this information in the article. That's ok. Prove it should be here. This is not a competition and I do not have a personal interest in naming this article "Cyberdyne Systems Model 101," but if we're going to call it T-800 you must show me sources for it. TomTheHand 13:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

My local public library appears to have the T2 and T3 novelizations. Because I am an awesome guy, I will do your research for you and go get the information from the novelizations so I can provide proper citations for the article. It may be later this week; feel free to do your own research like WP:V says you're supposed to do if you're impatient. TomTheHand 13:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you TomTheHand, for the link to the scripts because you HAVE to change it back to T-800 now. Because I skimmed the script and found this:

TILT UP, revealing a humanoid machine holding a massive battle rifle. It looks like a CHROME SKELETON... a high-tech Death figure. It is the endoskeleton of a Series 800 terminator. Its glowing red eyes compassionlessly sweep the dead terrain, hunting.

T-800 series, right there. Booyah! Go back to T-800 please. Thanks. WyrmKing 07:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

You mean "800 series." TomTheHand 13:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

800 series means T-800! T = Terminator, 800 = series model T-600 = 600 series, T-1000 = 1000 series, T-X = X series, T-1 = 1 series! 24.14.120.92 13:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Do not make personal attacks here. If it doesn't say T-800, assuming it means T-800 is original research. TomTheHand 13:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

T-800 IS 800 series! Where did you think 800 came from? I gave you the source and it's still not good enough for you? The entire canon says it's T-800. It's far from original research. 800 series endoskeleton. T-800, they're the same! 24.14.120.92 13:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The script does not say T-800. It says 800 series. It is not a source for changing this article's name to T-800. Calm down and watch your language. I understand that you're new here, but please read over Wikipedia's core policies of verifiability, neutral point of view, and no original research, plus the related guidelines on reliable sources, and you'll understand why the above example is not sufficient because it does not literally say "T-800". TomTheHand 13:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

LMAO I laugh at TomTheHand's overzealousness, they proof is right there because he won't accept it. How sad. I encourage everyone to vandalize this page, the worst wikipedia page that doesn't follow canon. Since TomTheHand doesn't care about it. It should be vandalized. WyrmKing 13:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Hoo-kay... welcome to Non-sequitursville. TomTheHand 13:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Look, if the 1000 series is T-1000? Then guess what's the 800 series is? And as stated here, in one of the discussion in this page:

I agree with Christopher Thomas, below, regarding unclarified sources for this article. Specifically, I take issue with the entire "Differences between the 800 and 850 series" section, because I contend that there is no such thing as a "T-850". Stan Winston Studios, which designed the terminators for the films, confirmed this to me via e-mail when I wrote to them asking their opinion. Their response (direct quote): "I'm not sure where the T-850 came from. As far as I know, Arnold's Terminator has and always will be the T-800, model 101. Now, the robot Terminators in T3 are T1's and Kristana Loken is the TX. I hope that clears it up..." While the term "T-850" is somewhat widespread on the internet, even extending to T3-related merchandise such as action figures, its origin is, to my mind, something of a mystery. --Rich 07:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Stan Winston DESIGNED the Terminator, and he says it's T-800! 24.14.120.92 13:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Relax, relax. I know he's being unreasonable about this but no need to get mad. I just find it funny that Wikipedia is the only place that thinks T-800 is unacceptable when the movie studios and official merchandise like this [2] says it's T-800. I mean, people always make fun of Wikipedia for being an unreliable source of info and you're proving them right Tom, by going against official canon. WyrmKing 13:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

FINALLY. It's like pulling teeth. Honestly, was it so hard for you to find some proof of what you're trying to tell me? Alright, so where do we go from here? T-800 is never mentioned in the movies. I'm not sure if it's the best name for the article if only people who have contact with the expanded material would be familiar with it. Articles should be named to be most accessible to the average person who knows almost nothing about the topic. ColdFusion650 suggested "Terminator (character)" earlier, which might work well. We should discuss the Model 101 vs. T-800 issue in the body of the article. I'm going to open up an RFC to get more input. TomTheHand 14:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

He's just trying to get to the truth. What's wrong with that? Without a rock solid reference, we're just trying to do the best we can, until we can find one. Now, as I said before, I've only seen the movies. I didn't buy the action figures or the books, or anything else. So, my stuff was based on what is and is not in the movies, and then I requested a reference from others for the stuff outside of the movies. But nobody came. So Tom agreed and changed the name. And then everyone started coming out of the wood work. With still no rock solid source. There is a source for "800 series". Got that, although does something in the script, but not mentioned in the film actually count? Regardless, saying "Check the books and merchandise" doesn't help. No one wants to find all Terminator books and merchandise just so that prove someone else right. Do the research yourself. ColdFusion650 13:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it does count. Just because it's not mentioned on the screen does not mean it's canon. Like WyrmKing said earlier, Nathan Petrelli's sons' names weren't mentioned on the script but the credits showed their names. Does that mean, they didn't have names? 800 series is T-800. Merchandise says it's T-800. The writers says it's T-800. The creature desginer, Stan Winston says it's T-800. It's T-800. T-800. 24.14.120.92 13:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Next thing you will say that those robotic planes in the movie are not called "Hunter Killers" because the movie didn't mention their names even though it's in the script too. This article is stupid, and just like all the Wikipedia jokes, unreliable source for going against official sources. 24.14.120.92 13:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh and do the research myself? I don't need research, I already know the name. You're the only one (or two) in denial here. YOU DO the research. YOU go read every available source about the Terminator universe. I don't need to because I have and I know. 24.14.120.92 13:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, according to policy, the burden of proof, I guess you could call it, is on you. And "just knowing" doesn't cut it. Please read the policies. ColdFusion650 14:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

It's on the script, I also posted links to merchandise, so did WyrmKing. ColdFusion, thank you for making this the crappiest article in the whole of wikipedia. You must be proud for the only one of two people in the entire world that thinks that Arnold was a T-800 Model 101. 24.14.120.92 14:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I have blocked 24.14.120.92 for 24 hours for personal attacks. I've gone back and removed his personal attacks and foul language from this page. TomTheHand 14:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I googled something and hopefully, if any of you read it, will end this nonsense. This site mentions where you can find T-800 in the Director's Cut of Terminator 2 and which passages in the official novelization has those. To End it All WyrmKing 14:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Good find. One last thing. The site you just linked to explains the "Model 101" thing as referring to the external appearance of the Terminator - the "Arnold type." You said something similar above. Do you have any similar source on that, or should we leave it out of the article for now? TomTheHand 15:22, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

What exactly are you looking for? My references are mainly novelizations, comic books, and official (and very expensive) figurines/action figures). I don't have a scanner so I can't do anything about it. I suggest we just go with the endoskeleton model for now, which is T-800, rather than the physical appearance. WyrmKing 15:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and if you want, I can link you to an archive of webpages from the now defunct eterminator.com. This fansite took all its info from official merchandise and most of their tech specs they got from the novelizations. You can double check the novelizations at your library if you want. But they didn't make anything up as far as I know. WyrmKing 16:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Just to finish the "T-800" discussion: along with the already mentioned T2 script, AFI, while doing the 100 Villains and Heroes, while in the final list uses only "Terminator", in the 400 nominated mentions "T-800". I changed the introduction to at least mention the most common designations (Terminator and T-800). igordebraga ≠ 00:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I sort of think that Terminator (character) might be the best name, with discussion of the various different names in the body of the article. I wish I had felt this way earlier, when ColdFusion650 suggested it as another possibility. TomTheHand 01:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for Comment

Hi all, Just popping by from the Request for Comment page. As what I'd consider an "average" Wikipedia user on the subject, by North American standards -- I've seen the movies but don't have any vested interest in the character, haven't read the books, etc. To me, the character is "The Terminator," and were I looking for information on the character, "Terminator" would be the search word. Specific model numbers are useful, for sure, if you're working on the second or third tier of fandom, but I think "Terminator (character)" would be a much more useful and intuitive article name than T-800, T-101, etc. Obviously you are all fans of the series and the character and want to strive for the greatest possible level of accuracy, which is fantastic, but I think a concession to the non-fans who are casually looking for information wouldn't be out of place. --MattShepherd 19:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

You know, the disambiguation page IS a bit too complicated. I think that if it were simplified, that would be sufficient to address the issue you're bringing up. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. King Zeal 19:26, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

How do you get to this Request for Comment page? ColdFusion650 20:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Head over to WP:RFC. In this case, I listed our dispute under the Media, art and literature section. I tried to describe it neutrally so that people could come and bring an outside view. TomTheHand 20:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

My ideas are either "T-800" (though this will be confusing due to the "T-850" from T3), "Terminator (character)" or (this could suit, like Predator (alien)) or "Terminator (robot)". igordebraga ≠ 23:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The correct name should be "Terminator (character)". EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The RFC consensus seems to be that this article should be titled "Terminator (character)"; however, someone moved the article to Cyberdyne Systems T-800 yesterday. There are a ton of double redirects that they didn't attempt to clean up. Could someone with AWB or something move this to Terminator (character) and fix the redirects? I won't have AWB access for a bit. TomTheHand 05:00, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what happens when someone completely ignores the discussion and decides to do what they want. Someone needs to slap him upside the head for all of the changes he made. ColdFusion650 16:49, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I undid everything he did. ColdFusion650 16:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Moved as you asked. And also re-did my edits before ColdFusion's reversal. igordebraga ≠ 12:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Article should be updated, as the model number "t-800" is referenced by the terminator in the third movie. I may be mistaken but I recall it. 68.116.244.252 02:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)Anathema1917

We are not stupid. If it were said in T3, someone would have said that by now. And if you actually read the discussion, you would realize that we already went over what he is actually called in the movies. He is never called a T-800. You are mistaken. Please read the discussion before commenting, per SOP. ColdFusion650 02:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

"Android" is NOT the correct name for the Arnold Terminators

The Article's leading Paragraph listed Terminators as "Androids."

With the combination of Living Tissue and Robotic Technology, ANY such creature that fits this definiton is a "Cyborg."

An "Android" is a (100%)ROBOT that looks like a human being, and furthermore looks like a MALE Human Being -"Gynoid" refers to a 'femme' Robot(BTW, I wonder if the term "Android" has been applied in Science Fiction to any Robot that resembles a biological male/female member of ANY species: I mean, can there be such a thing as an "android" Dog or "android" Centaur??)

On the other hand, the T-1000 and the T-X are "Androids."

Examples of Robots

• T-101 Endoskeletons without Skin Covering
• Non-Model Number Cylons in new BSG Series
• Star Wars Universe Droids
• Ed-209

Examples of Androids/Gynoids

• Data/Lore/Lal/B-4/Julianna O'Donnell ("Mrs. Soong")
• FemBots
• Number Six
• The Twelve Model Cylons in the new BSG
• T-1000 and T-X
• T-101 with artificial (non-living) Skin/Flesh Covering

Examples of Cyborgs

• R. Daneel from the I, Robot Series
• T-101 Endoskeletons with real (living) Skin/Flesh Covering
• Bicentennial Man
• Robocop
• The Bionic Men/Women

My apologies in advance to all who may be offended by my Edit to the Main Article, but I feel that exactitude is a necessary thing in this regard (plus I love the Terminators so damned much). 'til next time, Thanos777 03:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see a serious source for your claim that anything that combines living tissue with robotic technology is a cyborg. That definition is not supported by, say, dictionary.com. A cyborg is generally acknowledged to be a living creature with mechanical parts. Moreover, an android is a robot in human form, not necessarily a robot that is physically indistinguishable from a human. Terminator endoskeletons are androids, while the flying Hunter Killers are robots. I'm reverting your edits. TomTheHand 04:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

And I'd like to see your serious source that says that any mechanical creature with a head, torso, two arms and two legs is an android. BTW, the T-800 series Terminators DO

combine living tissue with a robotic endoskeleton. Non-rhetorical question: are we allowed to debate this issue with sources or is futher debate closed by your status as Admimistrator (again, non-rhetorical question)?? Thanos777 04:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, you could start at our article for android, and after that, move on to the link at the bottom of the page, [3], which is full of links to different androids. You'll see that they use the terms "android" and "humanoid robot" interchangeably. Also look up the definition at [4].

I know the T-800 series Terminators combine living tissue with a robotic endoskeleton. My point is that that's not a cyborg, and I'm asking you for a non-Terminator-fan-site source to the contrary. I know that the Terminators are referred to as "cybernetic organisms" in the movie but that's not a generally accepted definition of cyborg. A cyborg is a living creature with mechanical parts, not a robot with living stuff stuck to it. The Terminators, with living tissue or without, are what are generally considered to be androids outside the Terminator universe.

And no, this debate is not closed by my status as an Administrator. TomTheHand 13:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Quote from User:TomTheHand: "Ok, you could start at our article for android...."

I did; and EVERY Android listed on that very page featured Robots that PRECISELY mimic human form; in short, "Androids" refer to Robots that LOOK like humans, not just Humanoid (head, two arms, two legs) Robots. By the way, the [5] Website does the same.

Untrue on both counts; for example, our article for android has Kryten, C3PO, and Maria from Metropolis (film) as example androids, and the web site has ASIMO, the Honda P series, and HUBO listed as among the world's greatest androids. TomTheHand 05:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you're JUST looking at a limited set of creatures that bear the moniker "androids," and applying that generic label; however, we are as Wiki writers required to go to Androids EVERYWHERE that they are found, and while a few selct sites and definitions are so broad as to classify even IG-88, Optimus Prime, and C-3PO as "androids," the fact of the matter is that THE VAST MAJORITY of Androids throughout all of literature don't just have a head, arms and legs, but ALSO pass for human (and sci-fi literature, of course, is where nearly all androids "originate"). By the way, the top of the Androidworld.com page defines an android as: (Quote) "...An android is an anthropomorphic robot - i.e. a robot that looks like a human..."

A Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 looks no more "like a human being" than my own endoskeleton does. That is, of course, unless said endoskeleton is fitted with either rubber skin or flesh and blood, of course.

In similar fashion, while the real-world definition of a "cyborg" MAY be "an organism that has cybernetics installed," we are once again dealing with a fictional charcater in literature, and in literature, THE VAST MAJORITY of creatures called "cyborgs" are creatures that combine living flesh and cybernetic technology in virtually any amount; and please note that the term "cyborg" has no definition anywhere that mandates exactly how the flesh and blood/cybernetics must interface with one another. And to repeat what was said previously, a fictional character in literature must needs be defined by contemporary literary terms as well as real-world ones, wherever possible.

(One might even argue that sometimes, perhaps, the literary definitons of a given person place or thing should supersede the real-world defintion of same.)

Really? Dump the weasel words and show me. TomTheHand 05:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

To recap and restate my original argument:

• Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, type 600/800/850, without cosmetic infiltration enhancements: humanoid robots.
• Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, type 600/800/850, with rubber skin, as well as the type 1000 and type T-X: Androids.
• Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, type 600/800/850, with fully functional, flesh and blood cosmetic infiltration enhancements: Cyborgs.

Thanos777 04:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: TomTheHand, why don't you look at the very soruces that you cited: namely, the Android Article, the Androids.com Wewbsite that you cited, and the various defintions (and pictorial examples) of "cyborgs" given at any number of Dictionary Sites across the Web?? Not to mention the cyborg article right here in Wiki??

Seriously, what more do you want?? Thanos777 05:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Once again, as I said, what you've said about the android article and web site is untrue: our article for android has Kryten, C3PO, and Maria from Metropolis (film) as example androids, and the web site has ASIMO, the Honda P series, and HUBO listed as among the world's greatest androids. The cyborg article says exactly what I said: a cyborg is a cybernetic organism, and an organism is a living creature, which a Terminator is not. "Android" is an entirely correct term to use in the article, and I've shown evidence that it is widely used to mean a humanoid robot. Using "cyborg" in the article is highly debateable and you've yet to say anything beyond "just look for the information and I'm sure you'll agree with me!" TomTheHand 13:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

And so, the "Game" of Deconstruction begins.

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing): "Kryten is an android."

Response:Presumably you've watched at least a few episodes of "Red Dwarf;" note Kryten's approximation of humanoid features. Of course Kryten's an android! Please note that no one here, nor any definition that you could find of "android," ever said that an android must exactly match a human in appearance; the determining factor seems to be, in all such instances of androids, that the robotic frame have at least some (usually otherwise useless) cosmetic enhancements to bring the robots appearance closer to human. Again, humanoid robots like C3PO and the CSM-101 'base model' don't fit the definition of "android" because their forms don't look human, nor are intended to be, which seems to be the case with the vast majority of 'androids' in fictional literature (where the vast majority of androids exist in the first place).

The difference between "androids" and "humanoid robots" is the attempt to make the robot in question resemble a human being. Once again, by your very loose, self-assigned definition of what consitutes an "android," virtually ANY robot with two arms, two legs, and one head would be termed an "android...." everything from the Transformers to Giant Robot. You may keep saying the same things, over and over again as many times as you want to, but at the end of the day the fact remains that the VAST MAJORITY of all Androids ever 'created' refers to robots that are not only humanoid in structure, but which also makes at least a partial, cosmetic attempt to appear either identical or close to human. Kryten is one such example; a Terminator Model 101, which looks AT BEST like the human skeletal system, does not.

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing): "C3PO is an android, and the 'android' Article in Wiki says so."

Response: No, it doesn't, not per se; the Article says that by the most technical definition, C3PO may be considered an Android because he mimics human behaviors, NOT because of its humanoid frame. I'll point out something else: where else in all of literature does it say that an Android is an Android in part because it mimics human behaviour?? This Wiki Article is the very first place I've ever seen that uses this requirement as a definition, and by that arguably loose logic, Number Five, K.I.T.T., the Andromeda Ascendant, and the machine people of the "Batteries Not Included" movie would technically be considered androids, but of course they are not.

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing): "Maria, from the 'Metropolis' Movie, is an android."

Response: Of course; for the same reasons as Kryten, above, even if the only thing that looks human is her face; the terminology of the "android" monikerlies in the attempt to give the robot cosmetic human features in whole or in part. Just having a head, two arms and two legs doesn't cut it, and a creaure that looks like a human skeleton certainly doesn't even go that far. (Maria even had breasts -and I'm pretty sure that they weren't for nursing future 'botlings.')

By the way, Maria is/was a gynoid.

Hopefully, you've watched the movie "Metropolis" by now (as well as the released-in-recent-years Anime that paid homage to same, but which name I forget right now).

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing): "The Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 is an android; and the androidworld.com website says so, in so many words."

Response: You're probably better off sticking with the definition at the top of the page. Please notice that the various paragraphs, apparently written by a whole slew of different 'authors,' interchange 'humanoid robot' and 'cyborg' for any number of the robots on the site....some of which don't resemble humans in the slightest degree -one such so-called "android" is only about a foot tall and looks for all the world like the old 'bot' that you could get for the NES to use with gun shooting games(whose name escapes me right now) -nor do those bipedal 'bots even attempt to duplicate human behavior, apparently. Those paragraphs which describe the bipedal, non-human resembling robots featured as anthropomorhic robots, are probably the most accurately described robots on the page.

All androids are anthromorphic robots. Not all anthropomorphic robots, however, are androids...unless, again, you want to call everything from Red Ronin to Gigantor to Unicron "androids."

Taken in context, the differing authors of the differing Articles on the website don't even seem to have their own terminology right; again, were I you, I'd stick to the definition at the top of the page (which if I'm not mistaken they got from Webster's).

• And here: [6].
• And here: [7]
• And Here: [8]

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing): "The Honda 'P' Series and the ASIMO are examples of androids, and the Website points this out."

Response: You'll need to try again. Honda owns both the 'P' Series and ASIMO anthromorphic robots; and even within the same site, they mix up the terms "humanoid robot" and "android," too. And when you go to Honda's Website, they NEVER use the term "android," neither for the ASIMO nor for the 'P' Series which it was developed from. Which means to me that at the very least, that it was not Honda which wrote the articles in the website, but the term-mixing owners of the site themselves.

I'll let you in one more tidbit of information: all over that Website, they refer to every human-like robot on the site as "androids."

This should help disabuse you of the notion that the site owners know which terms are the right ones: Robots that look like human females are called Gynoids, NOT Androids.

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing): "The 'cyborg' Article in Wiki agrees with me in the definition of what a 'cyborg' is, and the Terminator simply doesn't fit this definition. Also, a cyborg is a living thing, and a Terminator is not."

Response: Once again, you seem to be reading only part of the article. The Wiki Article, in its entirety, describes real-life and fictional Cyborgs of all sorts, and of all different levels of mechanical/biological ineraction, from the real life examples of people with artifical hearts and prosthetic limbs, to the literary examples of Robocop (biological brain and face only), Motoko Kusanagi (Biological brain and spinal cord only), and even the Bicentennial Man, who started out as a humanoid robot (in the movie; I don't remember if he was an android in the book, as I read that literally decades ago), but added more parts to his body as time went on; by the end of the Novel (and it went pretty much the same way in the movie), he is almost completely human.

To "seal the deal," as it were, the Wiki "Cyborg" Article links to a subcategory called Cyborgs in fiction. You get two guesses as to the cyborgs listed there -as long as your two guesses are Cyberdyne Systems models "T-800" and "T-850."

And by the way, the flesh and blood attached to the endoskeleton is indeed composed of living tissue..as evidenced by the necrosis which took place after the Terminator's first series of encounters with Reese and Connor.

Quoting TomtheHand (paraphrasing, from Edit page): "The term 'Model 101' is apparently the Arnold-type and does not refer to the endoskeleton."

Response: Simply and in a nutshell.......incorrect.

The Model 101 is the "base" model, the endoskeleton without cosmetic enhancements seen in all three movies. It is what is added to the Model in the films, which determines the model's Type Number (also interchangeably called 'series').

By Kyle Reese's own words in the Movie (played by Micheal Biehn), the T-600, or 600 Series had rubber skin and were easy to spot -and which, by the way, 'transformed' the Model 101 from "humanoid robot" to "android" by technical definition.

The Terminators that appeared in the first two films were T-800s/Series 800, both the Arnold Schwarznegger and Peter Columbo version (Arnold's long-time friend and sometime stunt double, who appears in the future sequence in the first film); these were, according to Reese' the first of the new series of Infiltrator Units which could only be spotted by dogs. Here is the script of the Terminator 2 film, wherein we are told that Arnold is, indeed, a series 800. [9]

Lastly, the T-850/Series 850, in Terminator 3, had a detachable micro-fusion (fission??) power supply. By the way, here's a website showcasing the official merchandise from a release from McFarlane Toys, licensed to make the official toy line. [10]

For the record, apart from the clearly visible structural changes in the T-850 (namely, the detachable power supply), we the viewers are not, as a general rule, made aware of what changes (if any) are or were made to the endoskeletal structure of the Model 101 units from Series/Type to Series/Type.

I need to inform you in advance that I soon intend to alter the Article once more, pending your response.

Thanos777 05:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I would request that you wait and allow others to weigh in on this issue rather than simply edit warring with me, as I will simply revert your edits again if you make them. Perhaps we could work out a compromise: what do you think about using the term "humanoid robot" universally in the article? TomTheHand 13:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I did not at all intend to perform an edit without further discussion, hence the "pending your approval" phraseology in my last missive.

And just like you, I too would like more people to join in on the overall "discussion;" unfortunately, Wiki discussion is so darned SLOW compared to the speed at which Forum discussions take place.

As to the compromise you discussed: Would there be any problem in calling the Terminator Endoskeleton either an "anthropomorphic robot" or a "humanoid robot," calling its endoskeleton with rubber-skinned cosmetic enhancements "android...."

...and waiting for more discussion/debate before coming up for a name ("Cyborg" or something else) for its endoskeleton/flesh-and-blood gestalt??

For now I would say, however, that IMO the "humanoid robot" moniker wouldn't fit the Terminator in all its guises, especially since it precisely fits every definition of "android" in its Type/Series-600 configuration.

Let's wait for some of these folks to show back up (most if not all of which I will send PMs to in the following days), and see what shakes out; in any event I will certainly leave the Article alone until further notice.

Thanos777 03:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I've been keeping up with this discussion, sort of. Some of the messages are so long I ignored them. Read as: Keep it pithy. No bloviating. That's my job. Now, my opinion is this. The Terminator refers to himself as a cybernetic organism. So, I have no problem with that term being used. An android is a robot that looks like a man, so I'm down with android too. A humanoid robot is a robot that looks vaguely like a person. All of these terms fit. So, the question really is, which one should we use? Cybernetic organism sounds the coolest, and it's the only one used in the movie. But, I think everyone would agree on the term "robot". I say, in the interest of reaching a consensus, we should use "robot" as everyone will agree that that term works here. Thus, it shall be as I have said. The debate ends here. ColdFusion650 14:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

One more thing. When TomTheHand said that Model 101 refers to the appearance, he was correct. Whoever it was that called him wrong, is wrong. For about $9 you can get the Extreme DVD and listen to the commentary. James Cameron his own self said it. "Model 101 refers to the Arnold appearance. A Model 102 would look like someone else." Please don't be so pompous when calling someone wrong unless you are absolutely sure you are correct. Because then you just look like an idiot, and in this case, a bloviating idiot. ColdFusion650 14:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Uh, a few things.

• First and foremost, throwing insults ("a bloviating idiot") around in a debate is not only uncivil, but entirely uncalled for and only weakens your position.
• Your opinion is not the only one that matters. Just because you want something your way doesn't mean that's how it'll happen. Please honor consensus.
• All that said, I most definitely agree that this entire argument has become bloated and very, very hard to follow. I've been reformatting sections of text where I can, but I found it a lot easier to just ignore the hard to follow back-and-forth and just give my two cents (below). EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Additional discussion re: Terminator classification

My personal take on it:

• The base machine (the endoskeleton) is a robot
• The base machine with rubber skin... meh, I guess it could be called an android (to quote the article: "An android is a robot made to resemble a human, usually both in appearance and behavior.")
• The flesh-covered endoskeleton could reasonably be considered a cyborg, though we can complete bypass this by calling it a "cybernetic organism", which is the exact phrase used in Terminator 2 ("I'm a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton." Source).

"Android" could be used as a general catch-all term for all three states, but is (apparently/obviously) not as specific in most cases as we could get (which, I think, is something to be strived for in this case). But that would be similar to calling a Sequoiadendron merely a plant (a true statement) as opposed to a tree (a true statement, but more specific). That make sense? EVula // talk // ☯ // 03:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the breakdown as far as considering the base chassis a robot, it's rubber-skinned infiltrator variety an android, and finally the flesh-covered variety a cyborg. The flesh may not be vital to the fucntionality of the robot itself, but it is vital to it's designated function as an infiltrator, and as it is living tissue, technically it makes it a cyborg. "Cybernetic organism" is a good alternative as well, we could go with that as well. Tani unit 04:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think sticking to "cybernetic organism" (and eschewing "cyborg" almost entirely) is the safest phrase; it is utterly impossible to argue against it, as opposed to "cyborg", which could conceivably be debated (I'm not as familiar with T1, so I'm not sure if it used in that... and I'm not in the mood to watch the abomination that is T3). EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:44, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

To quote Kyle Reese in Terminator 1:

Alright, listen. The terminator is an infiltration unit, part man, part machine, underneath it's a hyper alloy combat chassis, microprocessor controlled, fully armoured, very tough. But outside, it's living human tissue. Flesh, skin, hair, blood - grown for the cyborgs.

I don't know if you'll consider this definitive evidence, but there you go. If you want to check, I got that phrase from this website: http://sphex.tentacle.net/respect/terminator.php King Zeal 13:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

That was my thinking as well. In the car chase where they're on the run from the cops he calls it a cyborg, although he immediately clarifies it to cybernetic organism. I tend to agree with Evula that its a better term to use in regards to the 101 series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SMegatron (talk • contribs) 13:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

I'm not convinced that putting artificial skin on a 100% robot makes it a cyborg. By that logic I could glue a human finger to my bicycle and it's a "cyborg." This isn't any sort of official designation, just my gut: cyborgs are humans + machine parts, not machines + any living tissue. --MattShepherd 13:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned earlier, the skin is living tissue that is vital to terminator's funtion as an inflitrator. Also, terminator chassis is clearly designed to accomodate such disguise. Finally, while not specified in the film, but according to Randall Frakes' novellizations, terminator includes components that function to keep the skin alive. To reiterate - the skin is part of it's design and fucntion, which is a far cry from gluing a finger to a motorcycle. Tani unit 16:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)