Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Animal rights: Difference between revisions
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{{archive box|[[/Archive 1]] [[/Archive 2]] [[/Archive 3]]}} |
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==[[Peter Singer]]== |
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== Relationship between speciesism and the AIC == |
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On Peter Singer's article he is listed on the animal rights template and under the animal rights scholars category. As far as I know Singer is not a rights advocate and has never described himself as such. The animal welfare template might be more appropriate. Please discuss. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 21:37, 10 July 2023 (UTC) |
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:I wouldn't classify animal welfare as a more appropriate category than animal rights for Singer. After his adoption of veganism, his claims are mostly centered on speciesism and rights-oriented arguments. Although, his work when he was a vegetarian would have made animal welfare a more apt category, I don't think that still stands true. [[User:AcidicAcid|AcidicAcid]] ([[User talk:AcidicAcid|talk]]) 06:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC) |
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==Lack of neutrality on Faroese whaling article== |
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::Unlikely that Singer is a vegan. I listened to a recent interview with him, he says he eats animal products if they are going to waste, he's also written in favour of eating insects and bivalves. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) |
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==[[Guru Jambheshwar]]== |
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I'm having a very hard time making edits to reduce the [[WP:UNDUE]] weight towards a pro-whaling on the [[Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands]] article. In [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands&type=revision&diff=1045410800&oldid=1045408469&diffmode=source this edit], a day ago, I tried to add triple [[WP:RS/PS]] material based on the 15 Sep mass dolphin killing event that was criticised both by anti-whaling campaigners and even some pro-whaling Faroese groups, but was blocked. I have been told that the page is not for news, i.e.: fairly unsubtle code not for any news that could shed a bad light on the subject. Assistance in addressing the bias at work on this page and in its editing would be appreciated. [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 20:31, 21 September 2021 (UTC) |
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==Article re-assessment request: SSCS== |
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==Determining the future of B-checklists== |
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Is it appropriate to request the re-assessment of an article's rating here. I've recently done a lot of work to improve the [[Sea Shepherd Conservation Society]] article, rebalance its content away from historic events and the now quite dated saga with the Japanese whaling industry and focus on the charity's present work - though plenty more could still be added on this front. Anyway, is this the right place for this? [[User:Iskandar323|Iskandar323]] ([[User talk:Iskandar323|talk]]) 20:36, 21 September 2021 (UTC) |
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[[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|25px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#Determining the future of B-class checklists|Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council § Determining the future of B-class checklists]].  This project is being notified since it is one of the 82 WikiProjects that opted to support B-checklists (B1-B6) in your project banner. [[User:DFlhb|DFlhb]] ([[User talk:DFlhb|talk]]) 11:24, 30 October 2023 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] --> |
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==Animal welfare scientists that need articles== |
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== Renaming and moving [[Animal rights and the Holocaust]] to "Animal holocaust" == |
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*David Mellor [https://www.une.edu.au/alumni/Profiles/people/emeritus-professor-david-mellor] |
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There is [[Talk:Animal rights and the Holocaust#Requested move 25 September 2021|an ongoing discussion]] regarding moving and renaming [[Animal rights and the Holocaust]] as "Animal holocaust". [[User:Rasnaboy|Rasnaboy]] ([[User talk:Rasnaboy|talk]]) 08:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC) |
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*Liz Mullineauxm, veterinary surgeon [https://www.rcvs.org.uk/fellowship/fellows-directory/elizabeth-mullineaux-45794/?p=4] |
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*Pierre Le Neindre (author of ''Interacting with Animals: Understanding their Behaviour and Welfare'') [https://www.ufaw.org.uk/book-reviews/2023#niendre] |
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*Alick Simmons (author of ''Treated Like Animals: Improving the Lives of the Creatures We Own, Eat and Use'' [https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/animal-welfare/article/treated-like-animals-improving-the-lives-of-the-creatures-we-own-eat-and-use-by-a-simmons-2023-published-by-pelagic-publishing-2022-wenlock-road-london-n1-7gu-uk-272-pages-hardback-isbn-9781784273415-price-1726/CF5C3263406CCC658F783EB873377A55]) |
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*Dr Sean Wensley, Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (author of ''Through a Vet's Eyes: How to Care for Animals and Treat Them Better'') |
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I will work on these in the next few months. |
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== Cleaning up animal rights related categories == |
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[[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 23:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC) |
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I've made an attempt to clean up [[:Category:Animal rights|the animal rights category]]. Where relevant, I've moved articles into the parent [[:Category:Animal rights|animal ethics category]]. I've also created new subcategories e.g. [[:Category:History of animal rights]]. |
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== Requested move at [[Talk:Debeaking#Requested move 10 July 2024]] == |
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There's a lot of articles which have [[:Category:Animal rights]], [[:Category: Animal welfare]] and [[:Category:Cruelty to animals]]. I'm thinking it's best to remove these from articles when they have parent (or grandparent categories) which are already in these categories e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cormorant_culling&type=revision&diff=1049235580&oldid=1038365108&diffmode=source this edit] in [[Cormorant culling]] because these categories are included in [[:Category:Animal killing]]. Let me know if I'm on the right track with this. I want to sense check before I go any further. [[User:Throughthemind|Throughthemind]] ([[User talk:Throughthemind|talk]]) 17:36, 10 October 2021 (UTC) |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] There is a requested move discussion at [[Talk:Debeaking#Requested move 10 July 2024]] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. [[User:RodRabelo7|RodRabelo7]] ([[User talk:RodRabelo7|talk]]) 08:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC) |
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==Discussion== |
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:Another example of what I'm wondering about is whether the only (relevant category) for the [[Whaling in the Faroe Islands]] article should be [[:Category:Hunting]], since this category has the parent [[:Category:Animal killing]], which has the animal rights, welfare and cruelty to animals categories, rather than including the categories on the article itself. [[User:Throughthemind|Throughthemind]] ([[User talk:Throughthemind|talk]]) 17:42, 10 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:There is a discussion at [[Talk:Insect euthanasia#Animal welfare]] that might be of interest. -- [[User:Otr500|Otr500]] ([[User talk:Otr500|talk]]) 18:49, 30 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Timeline of non-human personhood article idea == |
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It would be nice to turn some of the content here into a timeline article: [[Personhood#Non-human_animals]]. I'm not sure whether it would be distinctive enough from [[Timeline of animal welfare and rights]] though. Let me know what you think. [[User:Throughthemind|Throughthemind]] ([[User talk:Throughthemind|talk]]) 17:13, 12 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:Yes - or at least a set of linked articles that lead us through the discussion via current Wikipedia content. [[User:MaynardClark|MaynardClark]] ([[User talk:MaynardClark|talk]]) 21:33, 1 November 2021 (UTC) |
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==Critics of animal rights needs to be improved== |
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I have created about 30+ articles for animal rights advocates (mostly historical) but something that is lacking on Wikipedia is criticism of animal rights, specifically critics. We simply can't pretend that criticism of animal rights does not exist. In our [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:People_associated_with_animal_welfare_and_rights categories] we have 176 animal rights activists and 141 animal rights scholars. All these people believed in or believe in and have defended animal rights theories. What is missing is the critics. Our [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Critics_of_animal_rights Critics] of animal rights category only has 12 people and I click on some of their biographies and they have been neglected. Today I been doing a lot of research and have found about 20 critics of animal rights. I plan on working on new articles of critics and improving others that have been neglected. Any help with this would be appreciated. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 01:24, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:An early critic of animal rights that I have found is [[David George Ritchie]]. He authored a paper, [https://www.jstor.org/stable/2375904 "The Rights of Animals"] in 1900. There seemed to be a debate between [[Henry Stephens Salt]] and Ritchie in the journal ''International Journal of Ethics'' [https://www.henrysalt.co.uk/library/essay/the-rights-of-animals/]. These debates about "rights" have been going on for over 120 years. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 01:33, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:: Ritchie's arguments are still cited in the animal rights literature. "''Ritchie attempts to demonstrate—via reductio ad absurdum—that animals cannot have rights, because granting them rights would oblige us to protect prey animals against predators that wrongly violate their rights''." [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10806-016-9637-4]. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 01:38, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::[[Peter Singer]], in his ''[[Animal Liberation (book)|Animal Liberation]]'', mentions one of the earliest critic of the animal rights movement—[[Thomas Taylor (neoplatonist)|Thomas Taylor]], a distinguished Cambridge philosopher. According to Singer, he arguably initiated the modern term "rights to animals" by his publication ''A Vindication of the Rights of Brutes'' aimed at mocking [[Mary Wollstonecraft]]'s ''Vindication of the Rights of Woman''. But, unlike Singer's statement, the Wiki article on him doesn't say he mocked animal rights. Not sure if he can be counted as a critic. [[User:Rasnaboy|Rasnaboy]] ([[User talk:Rasnaboy|talk]]) 06:29, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::Agree that more work should be done on improving the critics. I've made some improvements to Ritchie's article and added [[:Category:Critics of animal rights]]. There still needs to be a section on his criticism, with perhaps a link to the [[predation problem]]. [[User:Throughthemind|Throughthemind]] ([[User talk:Throughthemind|talk]]) 12:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::: Thanks for the replies. I will do some work on Thomas Taylor and Ritchie's article. A few other modern critics of animal rights I have found are [[Jan Narveson]] who authored a paper "A Case Against Animal Rights" [https://www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepository.org/acwp_awap/4/] and [[Peter Carruthers (philosopher)|Peter Carruthers]] [https://philpapers.org/rec/CARTAI-9], [http://faculty.philosophy.umd.edu/pcarruthers/The%20Animals%20Issue.pdf]. The most notable critic of animal rights might have been [[Raymond Frey]], I plan on doing a massive update for his article next month or so. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 14:03, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::::: Another critic I found and whose article I just fixed up was [[Paul W. Taylor]]. Another is [[H. J. McCloskey]] which I will update. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 22:51, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::::::: [[Steve F. Sapontzis]] [https://www.pdcnet.org/enviroethics/content/enviroethics_1982_0004_0004_0345_0358] lists H. J. McCloskey, Jan Narveson, Bonnie Steinbock, Leslie Francis, Richard Norman, R. G. Frey, Meredith Williams and Ruth Cigman as critics of animal rights. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 01:31, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== Articles to be improved == |
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How about a section (in the WikiProject's article itself) that show articles requiring improvement'? [[User:MaynardClark|MaynardClark]] ([[User talk:MaynardClark|talk]]) 21:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC) |
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: That's a good idea that I agree with. We can use the same table template as on WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 01:25, 3 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== Articles to be created == |
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How about a section (in the WikiProject's article itself) that show articles requiring development? I had been thinking recently of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Georgie_White#Kim_Crumbo Kim Crumbo, missing environmentalist celebrated recently by Animals 24-7]<ref>[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Kim+Crumbo%22&oq=%22Kim+Crumbo%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i20i263i512j0i512j0i20i263i512j0i512l3j69i65.3608j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Google search for "Kim Crumbo"]</ref>, a periodical which IMO deserves an article. [[User:MaynardClark|MaynardClark]] ([[User talk:MaynardClark|talk]]) 21:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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== Animal loss== |
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I included the [[Animal loss]] article in this project and suggest that, in light of the seemingly growing movement for holding animal memorial services and 'animal funerals, the topic of memorial events for beloved animals who pass away be sensitively developed and possibly included as a section here (or as a separate article). [[User:MaynardClark|MaynardClark]] ([[User talk:MaynardClark|talk]]) 21:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== Death of animals == |
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We need to reflect on the struggle to understand death as mortality, not merely of humans OR nonhumans, but of sentient life, in which we all participate. [[User:MaynardClark|MaynardClark]] ([[User talk:MaynardClark|talk]]) 20:22, 2 November 2021 (UTC) |
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==Betty White== |
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MaynardClark thanks for raising the issue of [[Betty White]]. Here is a website I found that mentions her "According to Smithsonian Magazine, White has served as a trustee of the Greater Los Angeles Zoo Association for over 40 years. She has also worked with the Morris Animal Foundation, been associated with PETA, and still works closely with the Los Angeles ASPCA." [https://www.greenmatters.com/p/betty-white-diet-vegan] sounds like an advocate of animal welfare, not rights. [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 02:46, 4 November 2021 (UTC) |
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I was right, here is a comment from Betty White "I'm not into animal rights. I'm only into animal welfare and health" [https://www.biography.com/news/betty-white-animals-charity] [[User:Psychologist Guy|Psychologist Guy]] ([[User talk:Psychologist Guy|talk]]) 02:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== CITES == |
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Should [[CITES]] be considered within the scope of this project???? |
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:'''CITES''' (shorter name for the '''Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora''', also known as the '''Washington Convention''') is a [[multilateral treaty]] to protect endangered plants and animals. It was drafted as a result of a resolution adopted in 1963 at a meeting of members of the [[International Union for Conservation of Nature]] (IUCN). The convention was opened for signature in 1973 and CITES entered into force on 1 July 1975. |
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:Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten the survival of the species in the wild, and it accords varying degrees of protection to more than 35,000 [[species]] of animals and plants. In order to ensure that the [[General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade]] (GATT) was not violated, the Secretariat of GATT was consulted during the drafting process.<ref name="what_is_cites">{{cite web|url= http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/what.php |title=What is CITES?|work=cites.org|publisher=CITES|access-date=13 February 2012}}</ref> |
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I would think so.[[User:MaynardClark|MaynardClark]] ([[User talk:MaynardClark|talk]]) 18:42, 8 November 2021 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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Latest revision as of 18:49, 30 October 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Animal rights and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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On Peter Singer's article he is listed on the animal rights template and under the animal rights scholars category. As far as I know Singer is not a rights advocate and has never described himself as such. The animal welfare template might be more appropriate. Please discuss. Psychologist Guy (talk) 21:37, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
- I wouldn't classify animal welfare as a more appropriate category than animal rights for Singer. After his adoption of veganism, his claims are mostly centered on speciesism and rights-oriented arguments. Although, his work when he was a vegetarian would have made animal welfare a more apt category, I don't think that still stands true. AcidicAcid (talk) 06:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Unlikely that Singer is a vegan. I listened to a recent interview with him, he says he eats animal products if they are going to waste, he's also written in favour of eating insects and bivalves. Psychologist Guy (talk)
An early advocate of animal welfare, any help expanding the article would be appreciated. Psychologist Guy (talk) 20:45, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Determining the future of B-checklists
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You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council § Determining the future of B-class checklists. This project is being notified since it is one of the 82 WikiProjects that opted to support B-checklists (B1-B6) in your project banner. DFlhb (talk) 11:24, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
Animal welfare scientists that need articles
[edit]- David Mellor [1]
- Liz Mullineauxm, veterinary surgeon [2]
- Pierre Le Neindre (author of Interacting with Animals: Understanding their Behaviour and Welfare) [3]
- Alick Simmons (author of Treated Like Animals: Improving the Lives of the Creatures We Own, Eat and Use [4])
- Dr Sean Wensley, Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (author of Through a Vet's Eyes: How to Care for Animals and Treat Them Better)
I will work on these in the next few months.
Psychologist Guy (talk) 23:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Debeaking#Requested move 10 July 2024
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There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Debeaking#Requested move 10 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 08:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
[edit]- There is a discussion at Talk:Insect euthanasia#Animal welfare that might be of interest. -- Otr500 (talk) 18:49, 30 October 2024 (UTC)