Talk:Oak Island: Difference between revisions
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== Kempton and the inscribed stone == |
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Joltes writes about this.[http://www.criticalenquiry.org/oakisland/kempton.shtml] He calls the inscription an egregious fraud and says "there are no known descriptions of the "original" Money Pit stone -- if indeed such a stone ever existed in the first place." [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 10:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC) |
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:That isn't quite correct. There are vague descriptions of the stone. The stone was described for the first time in 1862. But the story is suspect because its describing events in great detail that supposedly happened in 1805 and because the author later gives an excuse as to why the stone can't be seen (its not only built into a chimney, its built into a chimney surrounded by wood and staircases). The next detail is added in 1893. Its claimed that the stone was translated at an unknown time by persons unknown in Halifax to read “Ten feet below are two million pounds buried.”. The final addition to the story is the addition of the symbols by Kempton. Kempton's account is that a unnamed (then-deceased) minister contacted an unnamed (also-deceased) irish schoolteacher who provided the information. Kempton claimed he had a manuscript written by the teacher, but nobody ever saw it. All the stories of the stone are suspect and each is a slightly more elaborate version of the previous story. The 1862 story is suspect because its describing in great detail events from 1805 and when asked to produce the stone, a lame story is provided to explain why its not possible. The 1893 story is suspect because it fails to provide the names of anyone involved. As well, Kempton's story is not credible because he mentions two people but does not provide their names and states that they are both deceased. The only descriptions of the stone come from people raising money for treasure hunts. While they assure us that "thousands" saw the stone, there are no historical accounts by third parties who saw the stone. [[Special:Contributions/75.17.126.74|75.17.126.74]] ([[User talk:75.17.126.74|talk]]) 09:02, 30 January 2016 (UTC) |
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== early history section == |
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With regard to the early history of the money pit, it is important to note that there is no history or sources prior to the 1850s. Further, that many of the pre-1890's sources tell different or even conflicting stories. It is important, however it is done, that the voice of Wikipedia NOT be used to make authoritative statements with regard to the early history of the money pit. The article can say that the sources conflict with each other, the article can cite what specific sources have said in the past. But the article should be careful not to draw conclusions or to suggest that a particular statement is true. Its better to err on the side of neutrality rather than claiming that particular undocumented early accounts are true or false. [[Special:Contributions/12.12.144.130|12.12.144.130]] ([[User talk:12.12.144.130|talk]]) 19:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC) |
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: Stop adding disclaimers in the form of [[WP:OR|Original Research]]. What specific sentences do you find problematic? [[User:GigglesnortHotel|GigglesnortHotel]] ([[User talk:GigglesnortHotel|talk]]) 21:30, 26 April 2016 (UTC) |
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::Before tonight's edits the article stated the 1795 date as fact, which we shouldn't do. We can report what the sources say but obviously not go beyond them. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:26, 27 April 2016 (UTC) |
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==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment== |
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:::The entire section was problematic. The disclaimers were added because the entire section itself was somewhat [[WP:OR|Original Research]] constructed by cherry-picking from multiple different inconsistent accounts of events from different time periods. I've tried to address the problems in a new way by sticking strictly to what the early sources said and when they said them. [[Special:Contributions/12.12.144.130|12.12.144.130]] ([[User talk:12.12.144.130|talk]]) 18:33, 27 April 2016 (UTC) |
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[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2021-01-24">24 January 2021</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2021-05-21">21 May 2021</span>. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/College_of_DuPage/English_1102_NET_55_(Spring_2021)|on the course page]]. Student editor(s): [[User:Xzones15|Xzones15]]. |
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:::: Fine. [[User:GigglesnortHotel|GigglesnortHotel]] ([[User talk:GigglesnortHotel|talk]]) 16:36, 28 April 2016 (UTC) |
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{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 05:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}} |
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== inappropriate advertising == |
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== Bad Date == |
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This date is wrong, Quote: ''Oak Island Tours eventually dissolved, and in '''February 2019''', it was announced that a new partnership had been formed with a company called the "Michigan Group".[17]'' |
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If you look at reference 17, it does indeed give February 2019 as the date that the web page was posted. But the change in partnership had to be much older. It should be noted that the current website is a reconstruction of a previously expired and lost website. The TV show first aired in 2014 at which point the new partnership was fully formed and active. Also reference 17 says Quote: ''The treasure trove licence is in Mr. Tobias’ name, but the new group will be looking to transfer the licence, which is valid until '''July of 2008'''.'' <<< This strongly implies that the change in partnership happened prior to 2008. During a quick look I was unable to determine the correct date, so did not make any changes to the article. (too lazy to login, old codger). <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.17.129.190|24.17.129.190]] ([[User talk:24.17.129.190#top|talk]]) 09:21, 4 October 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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The mention of the show ", and is the subject of the History Channel's series The Curse of Oak Island." seems inappropriate in the introduction. The show should be mentioned further down the article. It seems like advertising to mention it at the very start of the article. |
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== Vibe check == |
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The next section is even more troublesome. It not only mentioned the TV series again, it throws up every conspiracy theory in the book in a way that seems very related to the show rather than the history of Oak Island. If all that junk needs to be in the article, it should be far down the article after the confirmed history of the Island is presented. |
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What’s a vibe check you ask?...... |
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The section on the television show should just describe the TV show in brief. The "teasers" for the supposed "discoveries" at the end of the first and second seasons should not be mentioned.[[Special:Contributions/64.134.168.10|64.134.168.10]] ([[User talk:64.134.168.10|talk]]) 06:28, 30 December 2015 (UTC) |
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Let me Telepathically text you to see if your worthy. |
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Agreed that the TV series doesn't belong in the introduction so I made the edit. It does belong in the pop culture section, although the claims should be presented in a more balanced and less POV manner.[[User:Dan Conlin|Dan Conlin]] ([[User talk:Dan Conlin|talk]]) 22:52, 16 January 2016 (UTC) |
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......... |
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Well you passed the vibe check! |
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:The above discussion was pulled from the archives so that it can be seen that the issue of the advertising for the TV show has been previously discussed and the consensus, after an appropriate time for comment, was to remove the advertising for the TV show from the introduction and the various other locations it had been placed in the article. I can personally see no reason for including information in the introduction about a specific television program when the same information is appropriately included in the proper section later in the article. [[Special:Contributions/12.12.144.130|12.12.144.130]] ([[User talk:12.12.144.130|talk]]) 18:01, 27 April 2016 (UTC) |
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Haha you had no idea I was actually tricking you by vibe |
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Checking you! |
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Now you know what it is :)(: <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.249.64.108|216.249.64.108]] ([[User talk:216.249.64.108#top|talk]]) 02:38, 25 January 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Documented discoveries == |
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::I agree that the frequent mentions of a particular TV series give [[WP:UNDUE]] weight, and verge on being overly promotional. Most of the details about the series should be covered in the separate Wikipedia article (''[[The Curse of Oak Island]]'') and not duplicated here. [[User:Reify-tech|Reify-tech]] ([[User talk:Reify-tech|talk]]) 18:15, 27 April 2016 (UTC) |
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Some mention needs to be made of several discoveries that add to the "mystery" of Oak Iasland. Here is a partial list of items that should be mentioned: |
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:::You beat me to it. I agree also. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:27, 27 April 2016 (UTC) |
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1. Discovery of European and Middle Eastern human bones from core drillings obtained below 90 foot depth. |
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2. Determination that the Triangle Swamp is historically young...about 400 years old, and contains within it several human constructed cobble stone paved areas. |
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3. Discovery of buried wood works at Smithe's Cove that pre-date any documented human activity. |
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4. Need commentary about the kind of workforce required to carry out the above mentioned discoveries. |
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~~Larry Kipp~~ <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2600:6C5E:537F:4292:D41B:A4D8:5D33:2672|2600:6C5E:537F:4292:D41B:A4D8:5D33:2672]] ([[User talk:2600:6C5E:537F:4292:D41B:A4D8:5D33:2672#top|talk]]) 03:18, 10 February 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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This article should be split into two seperate articles, one which talks about the Island in general, and one that focuses solely on the mystery/alleged treasure. If there are no objections, I plan on creating [[Oak Island mystery]] or [[Oak Island treasure]] to focus on this aspect. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 17:29, 23 February 2017 (UTC) |
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:'''Oak Island''' is a {{convert|57|hectare|adj=on}} privately owned island in [[Lunenburg County, Nova Scotia|Lunenburg County]] on the south shore of [[Nova Scotia]], [[Canada]]. The tree-covered island is one of about 360 small islands in [[Mahone Bay]] and rises to a maximum of {{convert|11|metres|ft|abbr=off}} above sea level. The island is located {{convert|200|metres|ft|abbr=off}} from shore and connected to the mainland by a [[causeway]] and gate. The nearest community is the rural community of [[Western Shore, Nova Scotia|Western Shore]] which faces the island, while the nearest village is [[Chester, Nova Scotia|Chester]]. The island is best known for various theories about buried treasure or historical artifacts, and the associated attempts to explore the site. |
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I am moving this here for now for the record as the measurements are not sourced. Feel free to add these bits into the article's body if you can find the [[WP:RS]] for them. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 14:42, 18 November 2022 (UTC) |
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:If the article is split, the oak island article is going to have about ten lines in it. I don't really care one way or the other but its worth thinking about how little is going to be left after a split. But I would strongly suggest not calling the split article by a title like "Oak Island Treasure". I think "Oak Island Treasure Hunt" or mystery or anything that didn't imply a conclusion about the island is better. [[Special:Contributions/75.17.127.43|75.17.127.43]] ([[User talk:75.17.127.43|talk]]) 01:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 20:23, 15 July 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Oak Island article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
[edit]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2021 and 21 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Xzones15.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:31, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Bad Date
[edit]This date is wrong, Quote: Oak Island Tours eventually dissolved, and in February 2019, it was announced that a new partnership had been formed with a company called the "Michigan Group".[17]
If you look at reference 17, it does indeed give February 2019 as the date that the web page was posted. But the change in partnership had to be much older. It should be noted that the current website is a reconstruction of a previously expired and lost website. The TV show first aired in 2014 at which point the new partnership was fully formed and active. Also reference 17 says Quote: The treasure trove licence is in Mr. Tobias’ name, but the new group will be looking to transfer the licence, which is valid until July of 2008. <<< This strongly implies that the change in partnership happened prior to 2008. During a quick look I was unable to determine the correct date, so did not make any changes to the article. (too lazy to login, old codger). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.129.190 (talk) 09:21, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
Vibe check
[edit]What’s a vibe check you ask?......
Let me Telepathically text you to see if your worthy.
.........
Well you passed the vibe check! Haha you had no idea I was actually tricking you by vibe Checking you! Now you know what it is :)(: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.249.64.108 (talk) 02:38, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
Documented discoveries
[edit]Some mention needs to be made of several discoveries that add to the "mystery" of Oak Iasland. Here is a partial list of items that should be mentioned: 1. Discovery of European and Middle Eastern human bones from core drillings obtained below 90 foot depth. 2. Determination that the Triangle Swamp is historically young...about 400 years old, and contains within it several human constructed cobble stone paved areas. 3. Discovery of buried wood works at Smithe's Cove that pre-date any documented human activity. 4. Need commentary about the kind of workforce required to carry out the above mentioned discoveries.
~~Larry Kipp~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C5E:537F:4292:D41B:A4D8:5D33:2672 (talk) 03:18, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Lead
[edit]- Oak Island is a 57-hectare (140-acre) privately owned island in Lunenburg County on the south shore of Nova Scotia, Canada. The tree-covered island is one of about 360 small islands in Mahone Bay and rises to a maximum of 11 metres (36 feet) above sea level. The island is located 200 metres (660 feet) from shore and connected to the mainland by a causeway and gate. The nearest community is the rural community of Western Shore which faces the island, while the nearest village is Chester. The island is best known for various theories about buried treasure or historical artifacts, and the associated attempts to explore the site.
I am moving this here for now for the record as the measurements are not sourced. Feel free to add these bits into the article's body if you can find the WP:RS for them. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:42, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
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