View source for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Molecular Biology/Molecular and Cell Biology/Archive 9

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==[[Template:Leucine metabolism in humans]]==
{{Leucine metabolism in humans}}
I recently removed all of the image text from [[:File:ISSN HMB statement Fig 1.jpg]] and replaced it with wikitext.  The background image file is likely going to be changed to an svg format soon.  Consequently, I'm open to restructuring the background image and repositioning/resizing the annotations based upon feedback from this project.

The [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3568064/figure/F1/ original image file] that this diagram is based upon was uploaded from a [[CC-BY-SA 2.0]]-copyrighted journal article about [[β-hydroxy β-methylbutyric acid]] (HMB), hence why there's a lot of emphasis on HMB in this image (note that there are a few minor differences between this image and the original).  Unfortunately, the enzymes that catalyze the reactions HMB ↔ HMB-CoA and HMB-CoA ↔ HMG-CoA aren't currently known.  Also, some very minor metabolites of leucine aren't shown in this image (L-Leucine → [[β-Leucine]] via [[leucine 2,3-aminomutase|leucine aminomutase]], and β-Leucine → β-ketoisocaproic acid → β-Ketoisocaproyl-CoA → acetyl-CoA via a sequence of uncharacterized enzymes). [https://books.google.com/books?id=aTQTAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA386&q=beta-hydroxy%20beta-methylbutyrate%20HMB#v=onepage&q=beta-hydroxy%20beta-methylbutyrate%20HMB&f=false This textbook diagram] illustrates that tertiary pathway. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 19:01, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

:One thing I'm not sure about is if it's correct to write "biotin+CO<sub>2</sub>" and "CO<sub>2</sub>+biotin" in this image as an input for [[MC-CoA carboxylase]], or if it should say "CO<sub>2</sub>" as an input and "[[Cofactor (biochemistry)|cofactor]]: [[biotin]]" next to the line beneath that substrate. Are either of those approaches fine? [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 20:07, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
:If anyone can comment on how to illustrate biotin as a cofactor for [[MC-CoA carboxylase]] in this image, I'd really appreciate it. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 07:24, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

::{{U|Seppi333}} Is it necessary to illustrate biotin?  As a prosthetic group, it's really just part of the MC-CoA carboxylase holoenzyme.  It's different to something like NADH or ATP where the cofactor is different before and after the reaction, and you need some separate process to regenerate it.  But if you want to illustrate it, I'd suggest something like [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3568064/figure/F1/ the original image], which doesn't give the impression that biotin is consumed like {{CO2}} is.  You could also just note the biotin requirement in the image caption. 
::Also, is there a reason that reaction and its substrate and product appear in the diagram twice?  As in, shouldn't the right-pointing arrow from HMB-CoA point to MC-CoA over on the right edge of the diagram, rather than there being a duplicate near the middle?  [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 04:30, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
:::It probably isn't necessary TBH. I think the original author just included it because of the "when biotin is deficient" text in the image.  I'll delete biotin from the image since you don't think it's particularly necessary to illustrate.  As for why there's two pathways to HMG in the image... I'm not sure why it was illustrated that way.  That's actually what I was hoping others would comment on.  If you think the redundant MC-CoA and MG-CoA pathway in the bottom-center part of the image should come out, I'm okay with deleting that when the image is redrawn. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 05:53, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

{{od}}Given that the HMB article has been [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid/archive4|renominated at FAC for the 4th time]] after a 12 month wait, further feedback on changes to this diagram for the svg version would be very much appreciated.  If you think some part of this diagram should be drawn, depicted, or annotated in a different manner, please say so. I'm looking for both general/non-specific feedback as well as specific feedback on one technical and one cosmetic point:
*The technical issue I'm looking for further feedback on is whether or not cofactors should be indicated and how to illustrate cofactors and/or inputs to each reaction if they're included in the image; i.e., should the inputs be depicted as they are now in the svg version and <small>(re: Adrian's comment above)</small> should biotin be annotated in [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3568064/figure/F1/ the same manner as it was in the original image] or be omitted? <small>NB: the biotin annotation wasn't included in the current annotated image.</small>
*The cosmetic issue I'm looking for further feedback on is whether the two pathways for {{nowrap|HMB↔HMB-CoA↔MC-CoA↔MG-CoA↔HMG-CoA}} should be illustrated in the svg version, analogous to how it is in the current image, or if these should be merged into a single depiction when the image is redrawn as an svg diagram.
For additional context/information on the pathway being depicted in this diagram, it would probably help to read the article text in [[Leucine#Metabolism in humans]]. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 08:22, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

: An essential requirement for Featured Articles is that it should be understood by a wide audience.IMHO the figure is way too complicated (i.e., likely to confuse readers) and should be simplified as much as possible without removing essential information. Hence I think co-factors should left out, unless they are directly referred to in the text (e.g., biotin). Splitting the digram into biosynthesis and metabolism will go a long way in making it easier to digest.  Also the lower right hand side (MG-CoA → HMG-CoA → Acetyl-CoA/Acetoacetate) need not be included in either digram since this pathway has to do with metabolism of leucine, not HMB. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 10:05, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
:: Hehe, well I guess this speaks to how complicated the image is right now. {{P|7}} The bottom right portion of this image is showing the metabolism of HMG-CoA, which is depicted as being downstream from isovaleryl-CoA; but, you'll notice that the pathway on the left also shows HMB-CoA being converted to both MC-CoA and HMG-CoA, and both of those are also depicted in the pathway on the right side <small>(NB: if you click on the HMG-CoA, MC-CoA, or MG-CoA in this diagram and then view this image in those articles, you'll see 2 highlighted annotations for each of those pairs)</small>.  Because HMG-CoA is downstream from HMB, the metabolism of HMG-CoA into acetyl-CoA and acetoacetate is actually downstream from HMB as well; however, this diagram makes it look like it isn't due the depiction of 1-way reactions (← or ↓) on the right side and reversible (↔) reactions on the left. In a nutshell, there's 2 interconnected pathways between HMB and HMG-CoA being shown, where different metabolic fates for HMG-CoA are shown on each side of the diagram (bottom left vs bottom right). 
:: So, I guess the two pathways that connect HMB to HMG-CoA in this image should be merged when creating the svg version. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 10:44, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
::: I think we are on the same page now.  There is a duplication in the parent diagram which should be eliminated in the daughter biosynthesis and metabolism diagrams. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 11:15, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
{{Annotated image 4
| image =  ISSN HMB statement Fig 1 - no labels.jpg
| align = right
| width = 250 <!--Note: the width of the displayed image is 93 pixels-->
| height = 100 <!--Note: the height of the displayed image is 93 pixels-->
| image-width = 600
| image-left = -95 <!--Note: a negative value was used to crop the image-->
| image-top = -250 <!--Note: a negative value was used to crop the image-->
| header =
| caption = @Boghog: I'm referring to the reactions illustrated above.
| icon = none
| annotations =
{{Annotation|23|27|{{if pagename|Beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyryl-CoA={{highlight|'''HMB-CoA'''}}|other=[[beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyryl-CoA|HMB-CoA]]}}}}
{{Annotation|175|27|{{if pagename|Methylcrotonyl-CoA={{highlight|'''MC-CoA'''}}|other=[[Methylcrotonyl-CoA|MC-CoA]]}}}}
{{Annotation|175|74|{{if pagename|3-Methylglutaconyl-CoA={{highlight|'''MG-CoA'''}}|other=[[3-Methylglutaconyl-CoA|MG-CoA]]}}}}
{{Annotation|23|74|{{if pagename|HMG-CoA={{highlight|'''HMG-CoA'''}}|other=[[HMG-CoA]]}}}}
{{Annotation|1|49|[[carbon dioxide|CO<sub>2</sub>]]}}
{{Annotation|222|42|[[carbon dioxide|CO<sub>2</sub>]]}}
{{Annotation|135|47|[[Properties of water|H<sub>2</sub>O]]}}
}}
{{Ping|Boghog}} I'm creating the SVG diagram right now, but I just noticed something.  Since MC-CoA→HMB-CoA requires H<sub>2</sub>O as an input and both HMB-CoA→HMG-CoA and MC-CoA→MG-CoA require CO<sub>2</sub> as an input, wouldn't the MG-CoA→HMG-CoA reaction catalyzed by [[Methylglutaconyl-CoA hydratase|MG-CoA hydratase]] also require H<sub>2</sub>O as an input? If so, I should illustrate that in the diagram. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 10:40, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

: A [[hydratase]] by definition catalyzes the addition of water to a substrate, so yes, I think it should be illustrated in the diagram. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 10:55, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
::[[:File:HMB biosynthesis and metabolism diagram - no labels.svg]] - that's the outline.  Now I need to annotate it.  I'll probably upload a few more versions of that pathway outline with slight changes in the line placement while I'm working on the annotations though. Also, I decided to add a pathway for {{nowrap|[[acetoacetate]]→[[β-hydroxybutyrate]]}} to the annotated svg diagram. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 11:34, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

{{Ping|Boghog}} The current version of the annotated SVG diagram is transcluded from the template talk page into the collapse tab below.  I've finished re-annotating most of it, but the annotations with an orange background need to be repositioned.  Logging off for now.  Let me know if you have any feedback. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 13:00, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
: Looks good, but just to reiterate, I still think the diagram needs to be split in two. Also isovaleryl-CoA should be removed from both daughter diagrams since it is not involved in the biosynthesis of HMB and it appears to be a minor side pathway in HMB metabolism. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 16:50, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
:: Based upon the current layout, it would be pretty easy to display just the biosynthesis or the metabolism by template-cropping the top/bottom portions of the diagram and annotating over irrelevant lines using non-breaking spaces with a white background color. The full diagram is used in a number of other articles though. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 18:15, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

{{Ping|Boghog}} I've finished annotating the new svg diagram below.  Unless you have any suggestions for further revision, I'm going to replace the current {{tlx|Leucine metabolism in humans}} template with this one. I can work on splitting this diagram into two tomorrow if {{U|Galobtter}} thinks it would be best to move the biosynthesis section out of the [[beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid#Pharmacology]] section. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 12:36, 29 January 2018 (UTC)



{{Cot|Annotated SVG version of the diagram|bg=white}}
{{Leucine metabolism in humans}}
{{cob}}{{clear}}

===Section reflist===
{{cot|bg=white|Reflist for {{tlx|Leucine metabolism in humans}}}}
{{Reflist|talk}}
{{cob}}

== FYI – 4th FAC nomination ==

[[Beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid]] recently became a good article, so I renominated it FAC for the 4th time: [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid/archive4]].  

I really need more editors to comment at this nomination and review it against the [[WP:Featured article criteria]]. For those who haven't reviewed an article at FAC before, [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-04-07/Dispatches|this is the "FAQ" page for reviewing articles at FAC]]. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 03:46, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

== Question about the term "mTOR" ==

Figured that folks may be interested in [[Talk:Mechanistic target of rapamycin#Article title|this discussion]]. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 14:29, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Cofactor_(biochemistry)#Coenzyme_and_cofactor|coenzyme and cofactor article split]] ==

There is a discussion at the above link.  Your input is most welcome. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 17:39, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

== Requesting help with [[Cooperative antigen transfer]] ==

Hello there! I just came across this article ([[Cooperative antigen transfer]]) and I was wondering if an expert could take a look at it? I know little about the topic. --[[User:TheSandDoctor|TheSandDoctor]] ([[User talk:TheSandDoctor|talk]]) 20:20, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
: Looks like [[WP:OR]] to me. I have nominated it for deletion. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 21:11, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Sex]] ==

Please see the latest discussion at [[Talk:Sex]], which proposes to restrict the scope of the article. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

== Umami and Savoriness ==

Please share your views here: [[Talk:Umami#This really should be called savory]]

[[User:Anna Frodesiak|Anna Frodesiak]] ([[User talk:Anna Frodesiak|talk]]) 01:06, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 10 – 12 March 2018 ==

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| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 10 – 12 March 2018</span>

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<div style="position: absolute; top: -20px; right: -12px; background-color: white; border: 3px solid black; padding:10px;">[[File:Content mine logo.png|100px|link=]]</div>
<hr style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 );" />

===Milestone for mix'n'match===
Around the time in February when Wikidata clicked past item Q50000000, another milestone was reached: the [https://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match mix'n'match] tool uploaded its 1000th dataset. Concisely defined by its author, {{noping|Magnus Manske}}, it works "to match entries in external catalogs to Wikidata". The total number of entries is now well into eight figures, and more are constantly being added: a couple of new catalogs each day is normal.

Since the [http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=114 end of 2013], mix'n'match has gradually come to play a significant part in adding statements to Wikidata. Particularly in areas with the flavour of [[digital humanities]], but datasets can of course be about practically anything. There is a catalog on skyscrapers, and two on spiders.

These days mix'n'match can be used in numerous modes, from the relaxed gamified click through a catalog looking for matches, with prompts, to the fantastically useful and often demanding search across all catalogs. I'll type that again: you can search 1000+ datasets from the simple box at the top right. The drop-down menu top left offers "creation candidates", Magnus's personal favourite. [[m:Mix'n'match/Manual]] for more.

For the Wikidatan, a key point is that these matches, however carried out, add statements to Wikidata if, and naturally only if, there is a Wikidata property associated with the catalog. For everyone, however, the hands-on experience of deciding of what is a good match is an education, in a scholarly area, biographical catalogs being particularly fraught. Underpinning recent rapid progress is an open infrastructure for scraping and uploading.

Congratulations to Magnus, our data [[Stakhanovite]]!

===Links===
[[File:3D Printing Zamenhof's Head.jpg|thumb|left|3D printing]]
*[https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/wikipedia-goes-3d-allowing-users-upload-stls-digital-reference-129340/ ''Wikipedia goes 3D allowing users to upload .STLs for digital reference''], Beau Jackson for 3dprintingindustry.com, February 22 2018
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRK_MltUezA&feature=youtu.be&t=236 WikiCite report (video)]
*[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T185065 Formal publication and announcement of ISBN citation dataset], see [https://twitter.com/i/web/status/967064062616981504 Twitter post], February 23 2018
*[http://dataviz-literacy.wmflabs.org/#section-introduction ''Plotting the Course Through Charted Waters''], workshop on data visualization literacy from Mikhail Popov, Wikimedia Foundation
*[https://blog.ehri-project.eu/2018/02/12/using-wikidata/ ''Using Wikidata to build an authority list of Holocaust-era ghettos''], Nancy Cooey, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, February 12 2018
*[https://longair.net/blog/2017/11/29/sparql-wikidata/ ''Why Should You Learn SPARQL? Wikidata!''] Mark Longair, blogpost November 29 2017
*[http://www.zdnet.com/article/back-to-the-future-does-graph-database-success-hang-on-query-language/ ''Back to the future: Does graph database success hang on query language?''], George Anadiotis for Big on Data, March 5 2018
<hr>
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== [[Cobalamin]] ==

Hi. I have been thinking over an issue and would appreciate a second opinion.

We have an article about [[cobalamin]], which is another name for [[vitamin B12]]. The problem is, as such things sometimes are with vitamins (see [[vitamin B3 complex]]/[[niacin]]), that it is a group name for a number of compounds that have a certain structure in common, but depending on the ligand attached they have different names, and slightly different properties, as well as some differences in biological functions. And I was wondering maybe it should be a disambig page? 

On the one hand, something indeed can be said about cobalamin as a group, on the other hand it rapidly boils down to "if ligand is this, then it is such and such name with such and such properties". So basically, it has a disambig function.

What do you think, what could be put in that article, if it should remain an article? [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pccompound?term=Cobalamin PubChem has a lot of them for reference] (as well as [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pccompound/?term=vitamin+b12 vitamin B12]) --[[User:Helixitta|<span style="color: #ff5a00">Helixitta</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Helixitta|t.]])</small> 14:04, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
:Maybe "Vitamin B12" should discuss the medical/biological/nutritional aspects and "cobalamin" the chemical ones? [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 15:20, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
::I'm not sure. Chemical properties actually lead to biological ones, and usually the article on a substance would have everything in it. Say, [[glucose]] entry has biological function, chemical and physical properties. But I suppose some chemical properties that are common for the group could be added to the article about [[cobalamin]]... --[[User:Helixitta|<span style="color: #ff5a00">Helixitta</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Helixitta|t.]])</small> 16:23, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
:::Similar issues occurred with [[vitamin D]] and [[cholecalciferol]]. The feeling here was that all the drug and therapeutic issues associated with vitamin D deficiency had to be rehashed at the colecalciferol page, and take priority, rather than the chemical and physiological details. [[User:Jrfw51|Jrfw51]] ([[User talk:Jrfw51|talk]]) 19:13, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks for that example. --[[User:Helixitta|<span style="color: #ff5a00">Helixitta</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Helixitta|t.]])</small> 19:57, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

== Adenosine triphosphate ==

[[Adenosine triphosphate]], an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the [[Talk:Adenosine triphosphate/GA2|reassessment page]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. [[User:Aircorn|AIR<b style="color: green;">''corn''</b>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Aircorn|(talk)]] 22:42, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

== A thorough review of the gene article ==
:''Transcluded from [[Talk:Gene/Review]]''
{{cot|Article review}}
{{talk:gene/Review}}
Collapsed the transclusion. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 04:48, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
{{cob}}

== [[Draft:Gene Amplification in Paramecium tetraurelia]] ==

Any interest in rescuing this abandoned draft? [[User:Espresso Addict|Espresso Addict]] <small>([[User talk:Espresso Addict|talk]])</small> 01:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 11 – 9 April 2018 ==

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| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 11 – 9 April 2018</span>

<div style="float:right; width: 75px; height: 60px;"></div>
<div style="position: absolute; top: -20px; right: -12px; background-color: white; border: 3px solid black; padding:10px;">[[File:Content mine logo.png|100px|link=]]</div>
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===The 100 Skins of the Onion===
[https://i4oc.org/news.html#April2018 Open Citations Month], with its eminently guessable hashtag, is upon us. We should be utterly grateful that in the past 12 months, so much data on which papers cite which other papers has been made open, and that Wikidata is playing its part in hosting it as "cites" statements. At the time of writing, there are 15.3M Wikidata items that can do that.

Pulling back to look at [[open access]] papers in the large, though, there is is less reason for celebration. Access in theory does not yet equate to practical access. A [http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2018/03/22/releasing-1-8-million-open-access-publications-from-publisher-systems-for-text-and-data-mining/ recent LSE IMPACT blogpost] puts that issue down to "heterogeneity". A useful euphemism to save us from thinking that the whole concept doesn't fall into the realm of the [[oxymoron]].

Some home truths: aggregation is not content management, if it falls short on reusability. The PDF file format is wedded to how humans read documents, not how machines ingest them. The salami-slicer is our friend in the current downloading of open access papers, but for a better metaphor, think about skinning an onion, laboriously, 100 times with diminishing returns. There are of the order of 100 major publisher sites hosting open access papers, and the predominant offer there is still a PDF.
[[File:Red onion cross section 03.jpg|thumb|left|Red onion cross section]]
From the discoverability angle, Wikidata's bibliographic resources combined with the [[SPARQL]] query are superior in principle, by far, to existing keyword searches run over papers. Open access content should be managed into consistent HTML, something that is currently strenuous. The good news, such as it is, would be that much of it is already in [[XML]]. The organisational problem of removing further skins from the onion, with sensible prioritisation, is certainly not insuperable. The CORE group (the bloggers in the LSE posting) has some answers, but actually not all that is needed for the [[text and data mining]] purposes they highlight. The [[long tail]], or in other words the onion heart when it has become fiddly beyond patience to skin, does call for a ''[[wikt:pis aller|pis aller]]''. But the real knack is to do more between the XML and the heart.

===Links===
*[https://www.cwts.nl/blog?article=n-r2s234 ''Crossref as a new source of citation data: A comparison with Web of Science and Scopus''], CWTS blogpost 17 January 2018, Nees Jan van Eck, Ludo Waltman, Vincent Larivière, Cassidy Sugimoto
*[https://figshare.com/articles/Wikipedia_Scholarly_Article_Citations/1299540 Citations with identifiers in Wikipedia, figshare dataset]
*[https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/03/29/increasing-visibility-women-with-wikidata/ ''Making women more visible online—with Wikidata tools!''], Wikimedia blogpost 29 March 2018 by [[User:Spinster|Sandra Fauconnier]]	
*[[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Turn_on_mapframe?_We%E2%80%99re_ready_if_you_are|Village pump discussion, ''Turn on mapframe? We’re ready if you are'']] reaches conclusions
*[https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelbernick/2018/03/28/the-power-of-the-wikimedia-movement-beyond-wikimedia/#1aa669e75a75 ''The Power of the Wikimedia Movement beyond Wikimedia''], Forbes 28 March 2018, Michael Bernick
*[https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2018/03/26/tracing-stolen-bitcoin/ ''Tracing stolen bitcoin''], blogpost 26 March 2018 by [[Ross J. Anderson]]
<hr>
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Editor {{noping|Charles Matthews}}, for [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine]. Please leave feedback for him. [[User:Charles Matthews/Facto Post|Back numbers are here.]]<br> ''Reminder'': WikiFactMine pages on Wikidata are at [[d:WD:WFM|WD:WFM]].</center>
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== Move request ==

[[Talk:GBA_(disambiguation)#Requested_move_13_April_2018]] [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 02:59, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

== Remove tags for [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Cell Signaling]]? ==

[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Cell Signaling]] has been inactive for several years, yet its tag is on the talk pages of [https://tools.wmflabs.org/enwp10/cgi-bin/list2.fcgi?run=yes&projecta=Cell_signaling 295 pages]. Should we remove the Cell signalling banner from those pages and replace it with the MCB banner where appropriate? I figure the purpose of the project tags on article talk pages is (1) to help projects keep track of pages their editors are interested in, and (2) to point readers/editors towards a Project that could help address concerns about a particular article. It seems like having the banner from a defunct WikiProject just serves to confuse. Thoughts? I assume a bot could be found to do this task if folks think it's a good idea. Cheers [[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 19:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

: At the top of the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Cell Signaling]] page, there is in big bold letters with links: ''This MCB project subpage is no longer in use and is kept as a historical archive. Please go to the MCB project homepage or talk page for currently active sections.'' That seems like a sufficient pointer to our active WP. I don't think we need to completely bypass the cell signaling sub-WP. On the other hand, I don't know what is usually done with defunct WP--are they typically bypassed? --[[User:Mark viking|Mark viking]] ([[User talk:Mark viking|talk]]) 20:06, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

==Merger discussion for [[Vitamin B3]]==
[[File:Merge-arrows.svg|50px|frameless|left]] An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;[[Vitamin B3]]&mdash;has been '''proposed for [[Wikipedia:Merging|merging]]''' with another article. If you are interested, please participate in [[Talk:Niacin/Archive 2#Merger proposal|the merger discussion]]. Thank you. [[User:SusanLesch|SusanLesch]] ([[User talk:SusanLesch|talk]]) 13:59, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

== Wikiproject Anatomy and the scope of your project ==

Hi, I am not a member of your project but do most of my work at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Anatomy|Wikiproject Anatomy]]. At the anatomy project we recently finished classifying our articles and we have just under 1500 articles and redirects related to cells and microanatomy. What I would to know is what is under the scope of your project? Do you include individual cell types such as [[alveolar cells]], [[osteocytes]] or [[melanocytes]]? If such articles are within your scope please let me know and I will gladly start tagging/adding your project banner to their talk page (in the hope that your project members can find and will work on some of the articles of interest to both wikiprojects). Kind regards [[User:JakobSteenberg|JakobSteenberg]] ([[User talk:JakobSteenberg|talk]]) 20:47, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
:In my opinion such cell types would also fall within the scope WP:MCB. Some of them are already tagged (e.g. most of the immune cell types). I'll be interested to hear the opinions of others. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 23:56, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks for your input. I will wait for others to comment before doing anything. Just be sure; [[histology]]-articles such as [[histology of the vocal folds]], [[Loop of Henle]] or [[Portal triad]] are not within the scope of MCB correct? [[User:JakobSteenberg|JakobSteenberg]] ([[User talk:JakobSteenberg|talk]]) 17:55, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
::: I agree with Evo. With respect to morphology and cell type, the two projects clearly overlap. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 18:38, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

== LCHN: An Error has occurred retrieving Wikidata item for infobox ==

I just moved [[Draft:LCHN]] into mainspace.  {{ping|M.Gray97}} The infobox_gene template is generating ''An Error has occurred retrieving Wikidata item for infobox''.  My template-fu is insufficient to fix this.  Could a SME take a look?  Thanks.  -- [[User:RoySmith|RoySmith]] [[User Talk:RoySmith|(talk)]] 21:17, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

== Draft:Comparison_of_DNA_melting_prediction_software ==

[[Draft:Comparison_of_DNA_melting_prediction_software]] I'm a Afc reviewer with cell biology background but still struggling whether this bioinformatics page can be accepted . do give me an opinion. thanks much   [[User:Quek157|Quek157]] ([[User talk:Quek157|talk]]) 16:22, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

== 3D protein/nucleic acid structures could be rotateable 3D models: NGL ==

Hey everyone. I'm no wiki expert and there might be internal reasons not to do this, but I thought I'd float it.

There is an excellent+beautiful+open source molecular graphics thing called NGL. It is being developed at UCSD as part of the protein data bank, and I know the person doing it. Some examples:
Ribosome https://www.rcsb.org/3d-view/4V4J
RNA pseudoknot http://www.rcsb.org/3d-view/2LC8
Dorothy Hodgkin's Insulin https://www.rcsb.org/3d-view/4INS

You can see a (super cool+interactive) presentation on it here http://nglviewer.org/talks/ngl-3dsig/

Adopting ngl would be great for wiki because:
-Everything would look super beautiful and make the molecular biology pages more readable
-It would allow you to have images of any molecule for which we have a model (= any molecule for which you would want to see an "image") on any page, because you wouldn't need to find a public domain picture. In principle you could just have some markup like <ngl window: "pdbID:4ins"> or whatever and suddenly your webpage has an excellent up-to-date structure

NGL is very cross platform and works well on smartphones. However, it is obviously dependent on webGL.

Using NGL would take more bandwidth. For each structure you'd need to download a pdb file, plus the ngl javascript (which you'd have to do for every page?). That said, I'd like to point out that a 500KB pdb file is smaller than a 1MB animated gif of the same molecule performing a rotation, so a small number of pages would be compressed by this adoption.

NGL is better than the visualizer that proteopedia use http://proteopedia.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page as you can verify for yourself.  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hamishtodd1|Hamishtodd1]] ([[User talk:Hamishtodd1#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hamishtodd1|contribs]]) 12:06, 10 May 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The proteopedia visualizer I use is FirstGlance ... see http://proteopedia.org/wiki/index.php/FirstGlance_in_Jmol and https://bioinformatics.org/firstglance/fgij/. - Dank ([[User talk:Dank|push to talk]]) 13:56, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

==Discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine#MicroDNA]]==
[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine#MicroDNA]].  <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">–&nbsp;[[User:Finnusertop|Finnusertop]]</span> ([[User talk:Finnusertop|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Finnusertop|contribs]]) 22:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] -->

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 12 – 28 May 2018 ==

{| style="position: relative; margin-left: 2em; margin-right: 2em; padding: 0.5em 1em; background-color: #7FFFD4; border: 2px solid #00FFFF; border-color: rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 ); border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 8px 8px 12px rgba( 0, 0, 0, 0.7 );"
| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 12 – 28 May 2018</span>

<div style="float:right; width: 75px; height: 60px;"></div>
<div style="position: absolute; top: -20px; right: -12px; background-color: white; border: 3px solid black; padding:10px;">[[File:Content mine logo.png|100px|link=]]</div>
<hr style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 );" />

===ScienceSource funded===
The Wikimedia Foundation announced full funding of the [[m:Grants:Project/ScienceSource|ScienceSource grant proposal]] from [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine] on May 18. See the [https://twitter.com/TheContentMine/status/997574058727354370 ScienceSource Twitter announcement and 60 second video].

;A medical canon?
The proposal includes downloading 30,000 open access papers, aiming (roughly speaking) to create a baseline for medical referencing on Wikipedia. It leaves open the question of how these are to be chosen.

The basic criteria of [[WP:MEDRS]] include a concentration on secondary literature. Attention has to be given to the [[long tail]] of diseases that receive less current research. The MEDRS guideline supposes that [[edge case]]s will have to be handled, and the premature exclusion of publications that would be in those marginal positions would reduce the value of the collection. [[Prophylaxis]] misses the point that gate-keeping will be done by an algorithm.

Two well-known but rather different areas where such considerations apply are [[tropical disease]]s and [[alternative medicine]]. There are also a number of potential downloading troubles, and these were mentioned in [[User:Charles Matthews/Facto Post/Issue 11 – 9 April 2018|Issue 11]]. There is likely to be a gap, even with the guideline, between conditions taken to be necessary but not sufficient, and conditions sufficient but not necessary, for candidate papers to be included. With around 10,000 recognised medical conditions in standard lists, being comprehensive is demanding. With all of these aspects of the task, ScienceSource will seek community help.

===Links===
[[File:Google-refine-logo.svg|thumb|OpenRefine logo, courtesy of Google]]
*[[d:Wikidata:Lexicographical data]], Wikidata's multi-lingual dictionary project gets going
*[https://tools.wmflabs.org/ordia/search?q=hus Ordia tool], a basic search interface for Wikidata lexemes and forms
*[[d:Wikidata:Tools/OpenRefine|OpenRefine tool 3.0]], May update allows wrangling of tabular information into Wikidata
*[[d:Wikidata:WikiProject British Politicians]] pushes ahead with data modelling and imports
*[https://www.ifla.org/node/47354 #1Lib1Ref ''Returns for a Second Time in 2018''], [[International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions|IFLA]] blogpost 25 May 2018, second chance this year to participate in referencing Wikipedia
<hr>
<center>To subscribe to ''Facto Post'' go to [[Wikipedia:Facto Post mailing list]]. For the ways to unsubscribe, see below.<br>
Editor {{noping|Charles Matthews}}, for [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine]. Please leave feedback for him. [[User:Charles Matthews/Facto Post|Back numbers are here.]]<br> ''Reminder'': WikiFactMine pages on Wikidata are at [[d:WD:WFM|WD:WFM]]. ScienceSource pages will be announced there, and in this mass message.</center>
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[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 10:16, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
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== WikiProject collaboration notice from the [[WP:WPPORT|Portals WikiProject]] ==

The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template {{tl|Transclude lead excerpt}}.

The discussion about this can be found '''[[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Portals#AWB_team_please_tackle_maintenance_run_on_intro_sections|here]]'''.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Portals#Specific_portal_maintainers|here]]''', noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass.  Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

=== Background ===

On April 8th, 2018, an [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/RfC: Ending the system of portals|RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace]].  On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2018-05-24/WikiProject report|article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject]].

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Portals/Newsletter archive|newsletter archive]].

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the [[WT:WPPORT|WikiProject's talk page]].

Thank you.  <span class="nowrap">&nbsp;&nbsp; &mdash; ''[[User talk:The Transhumanist|The&nbsp;Transhumanist]]''&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 10:59, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

== [[Draft:Regulation of the insulin gene]] ==

Is this worth salvaging? (Delete vs. move to mainspace vs. something else?) [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 02:22, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

: It probably should be merged into [[Insulin#Regulation]].  The sources need to be moved in-line and it needs some copyediting first.  I will work on this when I find time. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 03:48, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
: Not needed as a standalone article when it fits nicely within [[Insulin]]. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 14:14, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

== Large copy-paste at [[Lysine]] ==

A large paste of text from [[v:WikiJournal_of_Science/Lysine:_biosynthesis,_catabolism_and_roles|WikiJournal of Science/Lysine: biosynthesis, catabolism and roles]] has been dropped into the article on [[Lysine]]. In addition to a number of references breaking in the process, there are issues of overly technical content and copy-paste, even if copyright issues do not apply. I'm too busy to dig into the issues more deeply for at least a few days, so I'm going to punt it over here for now. Sorry and thanks, [[User:BiologicalMe|BiologicalMe]] ([[User talk:BiologicalMe|talk]]) 03:39, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:<small>Fixed the link. [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 05:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</small>
:{{U|BiologicalMe}} it looks like {{U|Evolution and evolvability}} was in the middle of working on this when you posted here, and has edited extensively since.  Not sure there's any remaining issues? [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 05:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
::Hello, thanks for flagging this here {{u|BiologicalMe}}. I've been in the process of integrating an updated version of the article that has been written at the location you mentioned. It's under a CC-BY license, so the copyright isn't a specific issue (links to the relevant sections of the journal's [[v:WikiJournal_of_Science/Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion|editorial]] and [[v:WikiJournal_of_Science/Ethics_statement#Ownership_of_Wikipedia-integrated_content|ethics guidelines]]). You're correct that the ref errors were introduced during the process which I was fixing as i went on (also thanks to boghog for their ever-present assistance!). The main thing of importance is [[WP:TECHNICAL]]. I believe that many of the updates have largely made the article less technical (especially the lead; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lysine&oldid=842270989 prev version]), however I fully support improving readability and accessibility where possible. I also removed mentions of lysine deficiency causing blindness for now, since it was unreferenced. As well as this specific case, feedback from Wikipedians on the journals' processes is very welcome (see also [[:Category:Wikipedia articles published in peer-reviewed literature|list of Wikipedia articles updated based on academic journal content]]). We try to operate WikiJournals in a transparent, open and accountable format, so there is a general discussion board for the WikiJournal User Group [[wikiversity:Talk:WikiJournal_User_Group|here]], as well as discussion boards or each journal. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 05:32, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks [[User:Evolution and evolvability]]. I knew I was too tired to address it coherently, and I knew I would have no free time today to figure out copyleft licence compatibility or scramble through the references. As an indication of how tired I was, I forgot to provide a diff or to tag you. I'm looking forward to reading through what you've done, fully alert. Hopefully tomorrow. [[User:BiologicalMe|BiologicalMe]] ([[User talk:BiologicalMe|talk]]) 15:27, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
::::No worries! You were absolutely right to post here. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 00:39, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

== Similar Pages? ==

Note from OTRS ticket 2018062010005412 - the following pages appear to duplicate the same subject
*[[Ccaat-enhancer-binding proteins]]
*[[CEBPB]]</br >
[[User:Ronhjones|<b style="border:1px solid #dfdfdf;color:green; padding:1px 3px;background:#FFD">Ron<span style="color:red">h</span>jones&nbsp;</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ronhjones|&nbsp;(Talk)]]</sup> 22:27, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

: I think they're sufficiently distinct to warrant separate pages. [[C/EBP]] is a [[Protein family|family of proteins]], which includes [[CEBPA]], [[CEBPB]], [[CEBPG]] etc. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 22:52, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
::Yeah, not duplicates. There is more than one C/EBP protein. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 12:46, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks, not my field - mine is Chemistry. I'll let the OP know [[User:Ronhjones|<b style="border:1px solid #dfdfdf;color:green; padding:1px 3px;background:#FFD">Ron<span style="color:red">h</span>jones&nbsp;</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ronhjones|&nbsp;(Talk)]]</sup> 16:18, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

== [[Galactoside O-acetyltransferase]] vs [[Beta-galactoside transacetylase]] ==

We have separate articles on [[Galactoside O-acetyltransferase]] and [[Beta-galactoside transacetylase]], but are they really different enzymes? The first two sources used at Beta-galactoside transacetylase seem to classify them as synonymous: galactoside acetyltransferase (thiogalactoside transacetylase) (thiogalactoside transacetylase, LacA, GAT). '''[[User:Vaselineeeeeeee|<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee|<span style="color:gold">★★★</span>]]</small></sup>''' 22:31, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

:{{re|Vaselineeeeeeee}} I'm pretty sure you're correct. I think the two names are synonyms fort teh same anzyem (just slightly different description s of its catalytic activity). "Galactoside acetyltransferase" seems to be the most common variant of the name in the literature. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 00:39, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
:Additional consideration: [[Galactoside O-acetyltransferase]] is the formal [[List of EC numbers (EC 2)#EC 2.3.1: Transferring groups other than amino-acyl groups|Enzyme Commission number naming]] but the least-commonly used in publications! [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 00:51, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
::{{ping|Evolution and evolvability}} Yeah I noticed that too. You think we should merge to the Galactoside O-acetyltransferase page and possibly get rid of the O- for common name? '''[[User:Vaselineeeeeeee|<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee|<span style="color:gold">★★★</span>]]</small></sup>''' 02:22, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

== [[Human Genome]] had a whole section of creationist claptrap for over three years ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_genome&diff=651103244&oldid=651101908] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_genome&curid=42888&diff=847435799&oldid=847252018] {{smiley|cry}} [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 12:40, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
: Ouch!  Thanks for spotting and fixing that. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 16:34, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
: Seconded. Well done. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 00:01, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
::Ah, sorry my post was misleading.  The problem was spotted and fixed in the first ever edit from an IP, in the second diff linked above.  [[User:Adrian J. Hunter|Adrian&nbsp;'''J.'''&nbsp;Hunter]]<sup>([[User talk:Adrian J. Hunter|talk]]•[[Special:contributions/Adrian J. Hunter|contribs]])</sup> 08:53, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 13 – 29 May 2018 ==
{{cot|Issue 13 – 29 May 2018}}
{| style="position: relative; margin-left: 2em; margin-right: 2em; padding: 0.5em 1em; background-color: #7fbaff; border: 2px solid #00FFFF; border-color: rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 ); border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 8px 8px 12px rgba( 0, 0, 0, 0.7 );"
| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 13 – 29 May 2018</span>

<div style="float:right; width: 75px; height: 60px;"></div>
<div style="position: absolute; top: -20px; right: -12px; background-color: white; border: 3px solid black; padding:10px;">[[File:Logo for ContentMine ScienceSource.svg|100px|link=]]</div>
<hr style="border-bottom: 1px solid rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 );" />
{{center|1=The Editor is {{noping|Charles Matthews}}, for [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine]. Please leave feedback for him, on his User talk page.}}
{{center|1=To subscribe to ''Facto Post'' go to [[Wikipedia:Facto Post mailing list]]. For the ways to unsubscribe, see the footer.}}
{{center|1=[[User:Charles Matthews/Facto Post|Back numbers are here.]]}}
<hr>
;Respecting MEDRS 
''Facto Post'' enters its second year, with a Cambridge Blue (OK, Aquamarine) background, a new logo, but no Cambridge blues. On-topic for the [[m:Grants:Project/ScienceSource/Profile|ScienceSource project]] is a [[Wikipedia:WikiProjectMedicine/Referencing case studies for MEDRS|project page here]]. It contains some case studies on how the [[WP:MEDRS]] guideline, for the referencing of articles at all related to human health, is applied in typical discussions.

Close to home also, a template, called {{tl|medrs}} for short, is used to express dissatisfaction with particular references. Technology can help with patrolling, and this [http://petscan.wmflabs.org/?psid=4902034 Petscan query] finds over 450 articles where there is at least one use of the template. Of course the template is merely suggesting there is a possible issue with the reliability of a reference. Deciding the truth of the allegation is another matter.

This maintenance issue is one example of where ScienceSource aims to help. Where the reference is to a scientific paper, its type of algorithm could give a pass/fail opinion on such references. It could assist patrollers of medical articles, therefore, with the templated references and more generally. There may be more to proper referencing than that, indeed: context, quite what the statement supported by the reference expresses, prominence and weight. For that kind of consideration, case studies can help. But an algorithm might help to clear the backlog.

[[File:Research design and evidence.svg|thumb|left|Evidence pyramid leading up to [[clinical guideline]]s, from [[WP:MEDRS]]]]

;Links
*[https://query.wikidata.org/embed.html#%23defaultView%3ABubbleChart%0ASELECT%20%3FleagueLabel%20%28COUNT%28%3Fleague%29%20AS%20%3Fcount%29%20%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fmatch%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ16466010.%20%23%20a%20football%20match%0A%20%20%3Fmatch%20wdt%3AP361%2a%20wd%3AQ170645.%20%23%20that%27s%20part%20of%20the%202018%20World%20Cup%0A%20%20%3Fmatch%20p%3AP1363%20%3Fstmt.%20%20%20%20%20%20%23%20we%20want%20the%20details%20of%20goals%0A%20%20%3Fstmt%20ps%3AP1363%20%3Fscorer.%20%20%20%20%23%20who%20scored%0A%20%20%3Fscorer%20p%3AP54%20%3Fstmt1.%0A%20%20%3Fstmt1%20ps%3AP54%20%3Fteam.%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%23%20what%20teams%20have%20they%20played%20for%0A%20%20MINUS%20%7B%3Fstmt1%20pq%3AP582%20%5B%5D%7D%20%23%20no%20end%20time%20%3D%3E%20player%20is%20still%20playing%20for%20team%0A%20%20%3Fteam%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ476028.%20%23%20we%20only%20want%20domestic%20teams%0A%20%20%3Fteam%20wdt%3AP118%20%3Fleague.%20%20%20%20%23%20what%20league%20do%20they%20play%20in%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%7D%20GROUP%20BY%20%3FleagueLabel%20%3Fleague%0A World Cup scorers bubble chart, by the league in which they play], query run on Wikidata
*[https://query.wikidata.org/embed.html#%23defaultView%3ATimeline%0ASELECT%20DISTINCT%20%3Fauthor%20%3FauthorLabel%20%3Fimage%20%3Fdate%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fauthor%20wdt%3AP31%20wd%3AQ2537%20.%0A%20%20%3Fauthor%20wdt%3AP575%20%3Fdate%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fauthor%20wdt%3AP18%20%3Fimage%20.%7D%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%2C%20de%2C%20fr%2C%20es%2C%20it%2C%20cz%22%20%7D%0A%7D%20 Timeline of discoveries of natural satellites in the solar system], query run on Wikidata
*[https://blog.library.wales/?p=17811 ''4800 Welsh portraits added to Wikimedia Commons and Wikidata''], National Library of Wales blogpost 27 June 2018, by {{noping|Jason.nlw}}
*[https://www.haykranen.nl/2018/06/15/the-deaditors-of-wikipedia/ ''The "deaditors" of Wikipedia], Hay Kranen blogpost, 15 June 2018
*[https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1008295163616165888 Six dimensions of open access, polemical tweet], 17 June 2018
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[[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 18:19, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
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== Discussion on readability of some medical / biology articles and their infoboxes at WT:PHARM ==

See [[:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Pharmacology#Readability_of_medical_physiology_articles]]. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 18:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

[[WT:WikiProject_Pharmacology#Readability_of_medical_physiology_articles|Readability of medical physiology articles]]

There is a discussion concerning readability of {{tl|Infobox gene}} at the above link that is well within the scope this project. In fact, the discussion probably been started here, rather than there. In any case, your input is welcome. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 20:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

== Cellosaurus ==

There is a [[WP:N|notability]]/ [[WP:COI|COI]] discussion over at [[Talk:Cellosaurus]]. Both this discussion and the article itself would benefit from input from WP:MCB members. --<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;"> [[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] ([[User talk:Daniel Mietchen|talk]]) </span> 15:49, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

== [[WP:Featured article review]] for [[antioxidant]] ==

See [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Antioxidant/archive1]]. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 22:34, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

== ''Facto Post'' – Issue 14 – 21 July 2018 ==
{{cot|Issue 14 – 21 July 2018}}
{| style="position: relative; margin-left: 2em; margin-right: 2em; padding: 0.5em 1em; background-color: #7fbaff; border: 2px solid #00FFFF; border-color: rgba( 109, 193, 240, 0.75 ); border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 8px 8px 12px rgba( 0, 0, 0, 0.7 );"
| <span style="font-size: 110%;">''Facto Post'' – Issue 14 – 21 July 2018</span>

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{{center|1=The Editor is {{noping|Charles Matthews}}, for [http://contentmine.org/ ContentMine]. Please leave feedback for him, on his User talk page.}}
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<hr>
;Plugging the gaps – Wikimania report
Officially it is "bridging the gaps in knowledge", with Wikimania 2018 in [[Cape Town]] paying tribute to the southern African concept of ''[[Ubuntu philosophy|ubuntu]]'' to implement it. Besides face-to-face interactions, Wikimedians do need their power sources.
[[File:Wikimania 2018 hackathon mentoring table plugbar.jpg|thumb|left|Hackathon mentoring table wiring]]
''Facto Post'' interviewed {{noping|Jdforrester}}, who has attended every Wikimania, and now works as Senior Product Manager for the Wikimedia Foundation. His take on tackling the gaps in the Wikimedia movement is that "if we were an army, we could march in a column and close up all the gaps". In his view though, that is a faulty metaphor, and it leads to a completely false misunderstanding of the movement, its diversity and different aspirations, and the nature of the work as "fighting" to be done in the open sector. There are many fronts, and as an [[m:Eventualism|eventualist]] he feels the gaps experienced both by editors and by users of Wikimedia content are inevitable. He would like to see a greater emphasis on reuse of content, not simply its volume.

If that may not sound like radicalism, the ''Decolonizing the Internet'' conference here organized jointly with [https://whoseknowledge.org/decolonizing-the-internet-conference/ Whose Knowledge?] can redress the picture. It comes with the claim to be "the first ever conference about centering marginalized knowledge online".
[[File:Wikimania 2018 plugbar Tetris.jpg|thumb|Plugbar buildup at the Hackathon]]
;Links
*[[d:Wikidata:ScienceSource focus list|ScienceSource focus list]] (shortcut WD:SSFL on Wikidata), project to tag a first-pass open access medical bibliography on Wikidata, and also overcome the systematic biases in the medical literature by curation.
*[https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/07/18/wikimedia-foundation-and-kiwix-partner-to-grow-offline-access-to-wikipedia/ ''Wikimedia Foundation and Kiwix partner to grow offline access to Wikipedia''], Wikimedia Foundation blogpost 18 July 2018.
*[http://www.designindaba.com/articles/creative-work/wikipedias-upcoming-cape-town-conference-will-tackle-issue-diversity ''Wikipedia's upcoming Cape Town conference will tackle the issue of diversity''], Jamie Matroos, 2 July 2018.
*[https://www.videowiki.org/ VideoWiki], a video version of Wikipedia.
*[http://blog.openlibrary.org/2018/07/14/search-full-text-within-4m-books/ ''Search Full-Text within 4M+ Books''], by MEK, The Open Library Blog, 14 July 2018
*[https://www.ndr.de/der_ndr/presse/More-than-5000-German-scientists-have-published-papers-in-pseudo-scientific-journals,fakescience178.html ''More than 5,000 German scientists have published papers in pseudo-scientific journals''], NDR, 19 July 2018. 
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== Improvements to infobox gene ==

I can see a great deal of effort has gone to producing infobox gene and it clearly has some amazing wikidata integration. I think it could be improved in a number of ways and propose some specific suggestions here for discussion. My aim is to make the infobox shorter, easier to read, and increase the prominence of basic information. (I would normally make a sandbox of my proposed edits but am unable to because the infobox is written in lua.) For my inspiration, I am viewing [[BRCA1]] and [[MLH1]].

I'm starting this part of the discussion back here (rather than [[WT:PHARM]]), as boghog points out, this being a more appropriate venue. Ping to editors that have participated: {{u|Boghog}}, {{u|Seppi333}}, {{u|Jytdog}}, {{u|Looie496}}, {{u|Ajpolino}}, {{u|Tryptofish}}. Apologies if I've left anyone out. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
:+ {{u|Andrew Su}}, {{u|Daniel Mietchen}} and {{u|Opabinia regalis}} who may have useful ideas. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 12:05, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===1. Move some data to an 'authority control' template===
We're moving in that direction globally on WP. The list of 'external IDs' in the infobox could easily be moved to an authority control template for articles. This would also help shorten the infobox, reduce the length of its code, and more importantly, simplify the infobox, which is my goal here.--[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' - I find many of the links useful, but I'm fairly confident the average reader does not. The minority of our readers who follow these links (probably biologists) can find them just as well at the bottom of the page. This has been done with taxonomic identifiers for many organism articles as well. [[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 20:09, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Strong oppose''' – As long as these links are toward the bottom of the infobox, I do not see the need for this.  Many of the articles that transcribe this infobox are somewhat obscure and not often read by the average reader.  It is more convenient for the specialist to have all the relevant links in the same infobox. Also most of the links in question are not authority control.  They are links to specialist databases that provide more detailed information about the gene/protein. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:16, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' I think collapsing this to avoid cluttering the box with things that won't interest many people without moving it to the bottom of the page is the best solution. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===2. Remove pictures of chromosomes===
[[File:Ideogram human chromosome 17.svg|thumb|Could be simplified by writing 'chromosome 17' (as already occurs in the infobox, twice.]]
I refer here to the full chromosome panel, not the horizontal individual chromosome with the gene's location boxed. These pictures take up a lot of space, add to loading times, and don't contribute anything factual. They are also duplicated in text (twice) in the infobox.--[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Collapse''' would be a better option. I agree that this figure is mainly eye candy. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:17, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Collapse''', with removal as a secondary option. The diagram would be able to justify itself more if the exact chromosomal location was pointed to. [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 11:48, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
** Agree. If the exact location were here that'd be great. As it is, our description of "chromosome 9" is backed up by a numbered group of chromosomes and the ninth selected. I just don't see how this is useful? --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 10:06, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' I think this is a nice visual for people who aren't very familiar with genetics but may be looking for information for personal health purposes. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
**But what person not familiar with genetics but using this for their personal health will have access to a karyotype, and thereby find comparing this with their karyotype useful...?

===3. Collapse orthologs section by default===
The section takes up a large amount of vertical space and is limited to links. I propose collapsing it by default. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' – I find those links very useful. Furthermore they are at the bottom of the infobox so they should not obscure more general information at the top of the box. What could be done to reduce it size is to display only one Refseq link like the previous {{tl|GNF Protein box}} did. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:23, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
* I'd support either collapsing the section by default (still leaves it accessible to those interested) or reducing the display to one Refseq link (cuts down on the external link overload in the infobox). I'd also support doing both of those together. [[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 14:45, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Weakly Support''' This would save space, but I don't think it's much of an improvement. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===4. Rename 'available structures' section===
There is a title that is called 'available structures' but it seems to be just some links. I don't know what it does or how it relates to genes, and therefore presume most lay readers won't either. I propose renaming it to something that explains what it does, or merging it to identifiers section if it is related. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' – The available structures section refers to 3D structures of the protein stored in the [[Protein Data Bank]] and are quite distinct from identifiers. Function derives from structure hence those links are essential. I use them all the time. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:29, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
** Ah. @{{u|Boghog}} then these would be suitable to move to an external links section of the infobox? --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 22:47, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
*** The left-hand side (green shaded) are explanatory internal links.  Almost everything in the right-hand side (grey-shaded) is externally linked.  It makes no sense to move only the Protein Databank External links to an external link section when almost everything else in the infobox is also an external link. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 06:49, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
*** The rationale for placing the PBD links right below the infobox graphic is that the graphics are most commonly of the protein structure derived from one the PDB links.  There are often more than one available protein structure (for example structures of different domains of the protein, complexes with different ligands or with other proteins, etc.). Having all the PDB links in one location right below the graphic of the structure gives a more complete view of the structure. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 07:54, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Rename to something like "Protein structure" or equivalent (i.e. not gene structure, or chromosomal structure). The "Available" is unnecessary (if there were none available, the section wouldn't be shown. Perhaps {{tlx|Infobox protein}} could be merged in? [[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo<small>&#38;</small>Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup> 11:53, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
** This option makes clear the point of the section and, as {{u|Evolution and evolvability}} points out, the 'available' is superfluous - so has my full support. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 10:03, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Weakly oppose''' This is an explanatory enough title and no one has proposed a better alternative. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===5. Create a 'basic information' section and put it at the top of the infobox.===
A 'basic information' section should be created and placed beneath the picture of the protein ribbon and include basic information about the gene written in a human-readable format. Fields can be discussed once we have some support for this section. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' - There was substantial discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Pharmacology#Readability_of_medical_physiology_articles]] regarding what fields might constitute basic information and where database entries to populate these fields could be found. I agree with points raised by {{U|Boghog}} and {{U|Seppi333}} at that earlier discussion that to be both reliable and human-readable, this may have to be curated (or completely written) manually. I'm happy to help with this. [[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 20:09, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' – Giving a birds eye view of the function, mechanism, and location of the protein is a very worthwhile goal. This can be done by manually selecting the most important GO terms for display while leaving the complete list in a collapsed state. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:32, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
*'''support''' per Boghog rationale--[[User:Ozzie10aaaa|Ozzie10aaaa]] ([[User talk:Ozzie10aaaa|talk]]) 10:11, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
*'''oppose and strongly''' this is trying to solve a content problem with an infobox which is wrong headed -- as wrong headed as the WMF trying to solve our cluttered leads by grabbing the "description" field from Wikidata and forcing it onto WP articles on mobile and in apps. (which in turn has generated a ton of ''more'' work for us, since the "solution" was creating a new {{tlx|short description}} field for every article in WP.)  Now  a ''second'' field of "summary information" is being proposed.. and this is just crazy to me.  But I guess people will volunteer doing what they want.  
:What bugs me, is that both of these things have nothing to do with fixing the bad leads that are the source of the  problems.   If the leads of these articles were doing their job this would not be needed.  Most importantly the time it would take to do this should really be put into actually fixing the leads. But again, people will spend their time here doing as they will.... [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 16:39, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
::I don't really see what the relevance of this infobox discussion is w.r.t. article leads.  The infobox summarizes body content (and even content not covered in the body) in a succinct tabular format while also providing relevant external links.  A lead and an infobox serve complementary roles in the sense that one conveys information in prose and the other in a data table. Each has its own advantages over the other; hence, the use of both is ideal. Fixing article leads is another issue altogether. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 03:18, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
::The goal of the [[Gene Wiki]] is to create a Wikipedia article for every notable human gene starting with an infobox and public domain Entrez description of the gene/protein. The intention was this seed material would encourage editors in expanding these articles. Unfortunately majority of these articles are still stubs.  In addition, many of the Entrez descriptions are either incomplete or missing all together. Adding a "key properties" section to the infobox would go a long way to provide a minimum level of information for each stub.  For more complete articles, the "key properties" section may highlight basic information that is lacking in the lead and encourage editors to add that information. Finally it should be pointed out that there are currently over 11,000 [[Gene Wiki]] articles.  Expanding and cleaning up the leads for all of these articles would be an enormous task and there are simply not enough editors to do this in a reasonable time frame.  Adding a manually curated "key properties" section is also a lot of work, but could be accomplished much more quickly.  After the "key properties" sections have been added, we will of course continue to work on  the leads, but that work will take much longer. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 13:24, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
:::The OP [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Pharmacology&type=revision&diff=848701161&oldid=848154320 started] by saying {{tq| I often use WP as revision and for my work as I'm sure many people do. I find many of our articles (e.g. [[Beta-2 adrenergic receptor]], which I'm looking at now) very difficult to read and lacking key information which (I feel at least) could be included in the infobox - e.g. where is that thing, what does that thing do, what makes that thing).}}.  The problem they point out is that '''articles''' don't have basic information, and ''their solution'' was "infobox". This is the wrong solution in my view.  But again people will put time in where they want.  This just seems to be a diversion of our most valuable resource to me. 
:::Additionally, [[User:Boghog]] I am curious why you say it would take less time and effort to add this content manually to an infobox compared to an article.  Would you please explain?  [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 19:16, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
::::As I have stated before, the required GO data is already stored in wikidata.  We just need to <u>manually</u> select a subset to be highlighted. In addition, because of within family similarities of the data, processing the data one family at a time will further speed up the process. The entire process can be automatic with a manually assisted script.  It is trivial to display this type of data in an infobox. It is much more difficult to automate the integration of this data into existing prose. And regardless of whether we have a understandable lead or not, having the key properties listed in the infobox will be useful in its own right. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 21:34, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::Oh, you didn't mean manual at all.  This is much more worrisome.  I would be curious to see a wikidata entry with the kind of data that you believe would be appropriate for this "basic information" field.  Can you point me to one?  [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 20:07, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::: An example of the kind of manually selected data that I propose to include in the gene infobox is found in the "Key Properties" table [[WT:WikiProject_Molecular_and_Cell_Biology#11._Conservative_alternative|below]]. The manual part is an editor making a decision about which of the existing GO terms should be promoted and this will take a considerable amount of work. The proposed work flow is as follows:
::::::# down load the GO data from wikidata into a spread sheet (automated)
::::::# organize by family (automated)
::::::# select preferred data (manual)
::::::# adjust the wikidata ranking of the selected data (automated)
:::::: Please note that each of the GO terms provides one or more sources and none of the GO terms is a medical claim.  Many of the claims are uncontroversial and can quickly be processed (e.g., a GPCR is membrane associated and the list of endogenous ligands for a particular GPCR). Identifying the primary function may take a little more work. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 20:44, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::: Also please note that the '''data already is in the infobox''', but in a collapsed state.  The proposal is to manually select a subset for uncollapsed display. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 04:51, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
::::::::Hey Boghog sorry taking time to respond. [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q227339 Here] is the Wikidata entry on BRCA1. Where in there is the "basic information" about "where is that thing, what does that thing do, what makes that thing" in that wikidata entry? (I acknowledge tissue expression data is there in the png image, as it is the infobox) [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 14:28, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::  Fair enough question. The relevant wikidata is here: {{Q|17487737}} [[BRCA1]] is an "edge case" in that it is a multifunctional protein that has intensively studied and hence many GO terms have been assigned to it. But hey, that is biology.  The "where is that thing" question has two parts. In which tissues is it expressed and which part of the cell is it located. The short answer is that it is expressed everywhere (except plasma). That is reflected in the "cellular component" GO terms: plasma membrane, cytoplasm, and cell nucleus. The GO terms generally don't distinguish between tissues. The RNA expression pattern suggests wide tissue distribution and that is also seen in BRAC1 protein expression ([https://www.proteinatlas.org/ENSG00000012048-BRCA1/tissue human protein atlas]). "What does that thing do" is function. "Biological process" GO lists "DNA repair" which I think qualifies as it primary function. As I have mentioned elsewhere "what makes that thing" is somewhat of a generic question.  The short answer is where all proteins are made, ribosomes. Digging deeper, what differentiates proteins synthesis is post-translational modification and GO terms do not cover this. So in summary, the promoted GO terms would look like:
::::::::: {| class="wikitable"
|+ Key Properties
|-
! Property !! Description
|-
| [[Protein#Cellular_functions|Molecular mechanism]] || damaged DNA binding
|-
| [[Biological process|Biological function]] || DNA repair
|-
| [[Cellular component|Subcellular location]] || plasma membrane, cytoplasm, cell nucleus
|}
::::::::: [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 20:05, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support with caveats''' that this be very limited and written manually. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===6. Rename 'orthologs' to 'external links'===
The orthologs part of this section is in fact just the titles 'human' and 'mouse'. The rest are just external links. The proposed change makes the purpose of this section much clearer to readers and reflects what it actually does.
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment'''– almost everything in the right-hand side of the infobox (grey shaded areas) is an external link so it makes no sense creating a separate external links section.  The orthologs listed (human and mouse) are just example organisms, although very important ones.  The present table layout makes sense (the left-hand side contains internal wikilinks that provide and explanation for the right-hand side external links).  This layout is also very efficient as the headings need only be displayed only once. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 08:53, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
** If as you say these are just external links, why does the section need to be a title that 99% of readers will not be able to understand? --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 11:29, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
*** The whole infobox, not just the orthologs section, is filled with external links.  Perhaps "orthologs" could be replaced with "representative species" (or "critters" ;-). [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 12:11, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
**** @{{u|Boghog}} Whilst I prefer "critters" as it is both highly technically accurate and also understandable by laypeople, I would also support "representative species" with a piped wikilink (like [[ortholog|representative species]]).--[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 09:59, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Not to 'external links'''' Another name might be more readily understood, but there are external links throughout most of the infobox. Orthologs seems to be the most technically correct, and "critters" is just ridiculous. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
** Of course "critters" is ridiculous.  Turn on your humor detector. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 04:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

===7. Merge gene location human/mouse together===
Merging these two parts together reduces the amount of headings in the infobox (which are many) and hopefully also simplifies its display. The section can include a subheading for human and mouse. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' – Displaying the human and mouse links side-by-side saves space since the headings (Entrez, Ensembl, UniProt, etc.) only need to be displayed once.  Putting one on top of the other would require duplicating the headings. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:51, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
**@{{u|Boghog}} this proposal relates to merging the two sections of the infobox titled "gene location (human)" and "gene location (mouse)" into a single section titled "gene location". This proposal does not relate to the orthologs section. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 11:28, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
::: OK, sorry I misunderstood your proposal. For this merge to work, I think the graphics would need to be removed and the merged section would consist of a three column data similar to the orthlog section.  We then might as well merge the gene location data to the orthlog section which already contains a partially redundant "Location (UCSC)" row. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 11:59, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' The human chromosomal information will be relevant to many more people, and it makes sense to me to have the human section uncollapsed and the mouse section collapsed by default. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===8. Display only a few things in 'gene ontology', or go back to plain text===
It seems like we're on the way to doing this based on [[WT:PHARM]], but I will propose it here as a plan B. The 'gene ontology' section is not useful as is. It contains 20 - 30 text entries describing processes. None of these reflect the article's lead description of the gene, nor the commonly understood function of a gene, e.g. when it is described as encoding an enzyme, membrane receptor, tumour suppressor gene etc. I propose that this section, if it can't be made easier to read and have a more narrow focus, be removed and we just handwrite everything ourselves. Yes that takes time but as an encyclopedia we are never finished and we should be aiming for the best - and spaghetti lists are not helpful to anyone. These lists are not useful at the moment - experts will already know these facts, and lay readers will not be able to make head nor tail of it, nor know how to extract the important items in the list from the chaff. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' –  Actually I think leaving this list in place in a collapsed state servers a useful propose.  This way editors can easily compare the full list against the promoted list and adjust the promoted list if they don't agree with our selections.  In addition, there may be "minor functions" that a individual reader might find interesting. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:41, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

===9. Rename 'gene ontology' to 'gene function'===
Renaming ontology to function makes the purpose of the section much clearer to end readers, which should be our goal here. I am not sure that readers will even look at the content of the section because they won't know what the section title means. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''<s>Support</s>''' – <s>More understandable to the average reader</s>. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 22:43, 14 July 2018 (UTC)  On second thought, this would be misleading.  The gene ontology contains more than function data, it also contain mechanism and location. In any case, if we introduced a "keys fact section" above the "gene ontology" section, the need to rename "gene ontology" becomes less urgent. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 07:15, 15 July 2018 (UTC) Labeling the section "protein properties" might work. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 10:14, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
**I'd support "protein properties", which is satisfactorily descriptive, or almost any title that doesn't contain ontology, which readers will not understand. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 11:30, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' gene function. Ambivalent on protein properties. [[User:Natureium|Natureium]] ([[User talk:Natureium|talk]]) 20:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

===10. Merge the two gene location fields===
Gene location is provided in three sections: gene location (human), and (mouse), and also as a field in orthologs. I propose there that the field 'Location (UCSC)' present in orthologs be moved to the appropriate gene location (human) and (mouse) sections, thus centralising this information and also reducing some duplication. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 23:32, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' – Unless I am missing something, this proposal is essentially a duplicate of #7 above. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 07:46, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
** Not the same proposal. Within the section called orthologs there is a field called "location (USBC)". IN addition there are two sections called "gene location". The proposal here is to remove the "location (UCSC)" field from orthologs, and move the contents to the sections titled "gene location". --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 11:27, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
*** OK, now I undertand.  As mentioned above, the merge could be done in the reverse direction (i.e., merge the "gene location" sections into the orthologs section). [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 12:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
****{{u|Boghog}} I'd support either way, and your proposed solution also has the benefit of removing some top level infobox headings :). --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 10:01, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

=== 11. Conservative alternative ===

Rather than making a large number of changes to the infobox all at once, I think a more limited number of changes could make the infobox much more readable for a general audience without sacrificing the usefulness for specialists. Hence I propose that we implement the following subset of what has been proposed above:
# Collapse ''Gene location'' (proposal 2)
# Collapse ''RNA expression pattern'' (new proposal)
# Introduce a new "key properties" section near the top (proposal 5). Using the Gene Ontology section in [[Beta-2 adrenergic receptor]] as an example, if we were to [[d:HELP:Ranking|rank]] a subset of GO data as "preferred" for the wikidata {{Q|287961}} data set (see [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q287961&type=revision&diff=708012317&oldid=697583204 diff]), the following could be displayed in the infobox:
{| class="wikitable"
|+ Key Properties
|-
! Property !! Description
|-
| [[Protein#Cellular_functions|Molecular mechanism]] || G-protein coupled receptor activity, epinephrine binding, norepinephrine binding
|-
| [[Biological process|Biological function]] || regulation of smooth muscle contraction
|-
| [[Cellular component|Subcellular location]] || membrane
|}
Of course to implement any of this, we must first get buy-in from the those that maintain the infobox and associated wikidata. For example, we have to make sure that changes to the rank of data do not get overwritten by bots. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 10:20, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' as proposer. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 07:10, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''' would support the batch of proposals above in addition to any others suggested. I've tried to propose some piecemeal changes rather than batch them so that they may be discussed clearly and separately. --[[User:Tom (LT)|Tom (LT)]] ([[User talk:Tom (LT)|talk]]) 11:26, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* '''Support''', although I've long felt the RNA expression data is so small as to be useless even to most specialists (though maybe this is a quirk of how my screen is set up?). Perhaps it would be more useful to the reader to replace the bar graphs with a {{para|most expressed in}} field that auto-filled with text of either the top few hits or all cell types that had expression over some mark (the graphs currently show 3x the median, so perhaps that's a mark of interest?). Bonus points if we could make those top hits wikilink to the relevant wikipedia articles. Of course, the section would also have an external link to the microarray dataset this comes from. As an example, I'm looking at the [[BRCA1]] infobox which shows [[:File:PBB_GE_BRCA1_204531_s_at_fs.png|this file]] and another. Thoughts? [[User:Ajpolino|Ajpolino]] ([[User talk:Ajpolino|talk]]) 14:45, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
* As a general point, collapsing content causes accessibility problems.  Some fraction of users will have problems (e.g., RSI pain) with collapsed sections.  You should think about whether that's an acceptable compromise.  If the material is going to be used a moderate amount, then it's not reasonable to hide it.  OTOH, if the material is so unwanted that almost nobody will un-collapse it, then does it need to be in the article at all?  [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 01:15, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

== Regulatory RNA concern ==

I am a new Wikipedia Fellow in the midst of training. I entered "[[regulatory RNA]]" and [[RNAi]] came up.  Of course that's the best worked out regulatory RNA system today, but there are other regulatory RNAs that should be accessed by the general term, such as Xist and others involved in X inactivation and enhancer RNAs, both of which are treated elsewhere on Wikipedia.  Does this seem like a problem to others?  Is it worth my while to work on putting together a more general treatment of regulatory RNA while I'm in this course? Thank you for considering this. [[User:LLMHoopes|LLMHoopes]] ([[User talk:LLMHoopes|talk]]) 17:34, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

: Good catch. If we have additional existing articles that fit within the area of regulatory RNAs (I am not an expert in this field), a good place to start might be to turn [[regulatory RNA]] into a disambiguation page with links to [[RNAi]] and other regulatory RNAarticles (e.g., [[Long noncoding RNA]]s, ...). The disambiguation page might later be turned into a general article about regulatory RNAs. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 18:00, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

== Estriadol metabolism ==
Hi everyone.

An editor asked me to reproduce [[:File:Estradiol metabolism.png]] as a wikitext-annotated image.  Would anyone here be willing to upload an svg image file with just the 11 compounds in that figure (without any image text ''except for'' the letters for the functional groups on the compounds, e.g., the OH for the hydroxyl group) under the file name [[:File:Estradiol metabolitsm.svg]]?  I can't really draw chemical structure diagrams but I can easily draw the pathways, so I intend to edit the uploaded image and add the lines and compound/enzyme annotations + adjust their placement as needed when annotating the image [[Template:Annotated image 4|with a template]].

{{Ping|Boghog}} I'm pinging you in the event you're interested in helping with this again and aren't terribly busy. {{P|7}} [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 22:10, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

:  Hi Seppi33.  No problem.  I will do this, but I need a day or two.  Cheers. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 23:59, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
:: Thanks! There's no rush, so take whatever time you need. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 01:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
::: {{ping|Seppi333}} Is this [[:File:Estradiol metabolism structures.svg]] OK? [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 07:58, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
:::: Yep, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks! Could I trouble you to take a minute or two to annotate [[:Commons:File:Estradiol_metabolism_structures.svg|the image file on Commons]] (via the "Add a note" button) with the name of each compound? It'd make it easier for me to determine where to place each structure diagram when I'm cross-referencing the svg/png files while drawing the pathway. <small>Edit: I annotated 2 that I thought were obvious, but some of the others are throwing me off due to the stylistic/representational differences. E.g., stereochemistry, rotation, etc.</small> [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 08:41, 3 July 2018 (UTC); 08:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
::::: {{done}} [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AEstradiol_metabolism_structures.svg&type=revision&diff=309521546&oldid=309515738 Added] names of structures. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 06:07, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
{{Ping|Boghog}} The last thing I need before beginning to annotate and uniformly align the objects in this diagram is an svg image of [[estrone glucuronide]]'s structure diagram. Could you email me that or add it to [[:File:Estradiol metabolism structures.svg]]?  If you'd prefer the former method, my email is in the source immediately following this sentence. <!-- Mickel301@gmail.com --> [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 11:40, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks again! {{P|1}} [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 12:06, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
{{Estradiol metabolism}}
{{Reflist talk}}
:: Hi Seppi.  Per your request, I have added estrone glucuronide to the upper righthand corner of [[:File:Estradiol metabolism structures.svg]]. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 12:20, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
:::Much appreciated. [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 12:21, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

I think I'm more-or-less done.  Anyone have any feedback/suggestions? [[User:Seppi333|'''<span style="color:#32CD32;">Seppi</span>''<span style="color:Black;">333</span>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 22:06, 10 August 2018 (UTC)